Social Zelda Social - Still the queen of Smash...and maybe queen of low tier for a decade, too. Shall we make it two?

[Demon-oni]

Huh, so phantom knight might actually be good neutral/ edge guard now and no dins fire free fall? I'm surprised Zelda's worldwide aren't cheering to the holy Triforce by now.

Pretty much the only thing she needs left is to hope by the final build she has like 3 attacks with good frame data.

 

[Rickster]

Keep in mind that the Zelda player didn't move as soon as they could after they finished summoning, so we get even more time to position ourselves with the knight

We could probably retreat behind it too, and we can definitely combo into it, be it Nair, a kick, or a Farore's. I think the new Phantom will play a big part in Zelda's gameplay this time around.

 

[Squii The Fish]

Hey there I haven't posted in here in forever, sorry. I never stopped playing smash 4 though and have kept in constantly running in my wiiu since its release.

I GOT SOME QUESTIONS FOR ALL Y'ALL WHO GOT A CHANCE TO PLAY DIS GIRL AND GET TO PLAY DIS GIRL TOMORROW
Sorry I feel like a silly billy asking these but I could not attend the event

- Does the second hit of Elevator up b still kill?
- Does jab (i guess jab 1) still send opponents at a delicious grab incentive angle?
- "Hi I play zelda and no one has caught footage of Down tilt yet"
- I noticed it looks like she still has a foxtrot kinda? Or I could be going crazy, can someone confirm. I love zelda's foxtrot in smash 4.

Also

https://twitter.com/perepereden/status/1006711252435927040

And

https://twitter.com/perepereden/status/1006733104042500096


ALSO SIDE B AND DOWN B HYPE

S I M P L Y D E L I C I O U S

 

[「 Derk 」]

Also keep in mind that a few people SD stocks during the tournaments for dodging offstage and having too much endlag to recover afterwords, Zero being one of them with Mario. This is going to make Din's Fire all the better now that we can use it offstage without free fall. Forcing people to airdodge or eating a Din's Fire can result in a kill either way now, which is an insane buff to think about! If there really is that much endlag on dodges now we could even follow Din's Fire offstage to force and air dodge and punish it with a dair spike or something too. It's not only the removal of free fall that fixed Din's Fire, Zelda got a huge helping hand from the new mechanics as well.

All during the tournament people were eating attacks that normally you would just air dodge and then I realized... they can't dodge because they would just get punished harder/die for it due to the increased endlag and lack of intangibility frames. It's kinda like Melee now in that aspect. You can't freely throw out air dodges anymore because they are very exploitable the more you use them. Definitely looking forward to trap mixups with Din's Fire and Phantom Slash come December!

 

[DNeon]

Also keep in mind that a few people SD stocks during the tournaments for dodging offstage and having too much endlag to recover afterwords, Zero being one of them with Mario. This is going to make Din's Fire all the better now that we can use it offstage without free fall. Forcing people to airdodge or eating a Din's Fire can result in a kill either way now, which is an insane buff to think about! If there really is that much endlag on dodges now we could even follow Din's Fire offstage to force and air dodge and punish it with a dair spike or something too. It's not only the removal of free fall that fixed Din's Fire, Zelda got a huge helping hand from the new mechanics as well.

All during the tournament people were eating attacks that normally you would just air dodge and then I realized... they can't dodge because they would just get punished harder/die for it due to the increased endlag and lack of intangibility frames. It's kinda like Melee now in that aspect. You can't freely throw out air dodges anymore because they are very exploitable the more you use them. Definitely looking forward to trap mixups with Din's Fire and Phantom Slash come December!

I just want to curb your hype a little here, those were specifically directional airdodges, and likely the result of muscle memory/mistaken input. Directional airdodge has much higher end lag, and while airdodges are reportedly more punishable lets not jump to such a lengthy conclussion, they'd need to be pretty damn bad for Dins to be directly punishable, rather than just able to actually apply pressure.

 

[Katy Parry]

Keep in mind that the Zelda player didn't move as soon as they could after they finished summoning, so we get even more time to position ourselves with the knight

We could probably retreat behind it too, and we can definitely combo into it, be it Nair, a kick, or a Farore's. I think the new Phantom will play a big part in Zelda's gameplay this time around.

Phantom Cast > Grab > Phantom Hit > Fair > Din’s Fire

With the way hitstun works, I can see characters having pressure on early percent combos, as it’s the only way combos are gonna Link most effectively

 

[Rickster]

I just want to curb your hype a little here, those were specifically directional airdodges, and likely the result of muscle memory/mistaken input. Directional airdodge has much higher end lag, and while airdodges are reportedly more punishable lets not jump to such a lengthy conclussion, they'd need to be pretty damn bad for Dins to be directly punishable, rather than just able to actually apply pressure.

The point is that since you only get one airdodge, forcing them to burn it with Din's opens them up into all kinds of Zelda things. Heck, you could probably even fake out dodge happy players by detonating early to give yourself even more time.

Alternatively, you could fully charge the Phantom then jump to intercept them as they avoid the Phantom (or get hit by it and die)

With the airdodge change, I can see why they made true combos rarer. The neutral will probably be more about pushing your advantage state after removing their defensive options.

 

[DNeon]

The point is that since you only get one airdodge

That's a hell of an exaggeration. Like I said, Din's does now actually put on pressure (unlike Sm4sh and Brawl) in that it reduces further effectiveness and there is going to be some extra endlag. I'm hyped that Zelda is definitely going to have better edgeguarding, I'm just saying to hold your horses. It'll probably lead to disappointment.

 

[Lord Renning]

You can't airdodge twice in the air. Not even the non-directional one. It literally won't come out. Which yes, does directly buff Din's Fire.

As an additional mechanic, the more you roll and airdodge overall, the less effective they become. Which is separate from the 1 airdodge without landing rule.

 

[Rickster]

That's a hell of an exaggeration. Like I said, Din's does now actually put on pressure (unlike Sm4sh and Brawl) in that it reduces further effectiveness and there is going to be some extra endlag. I'm hyped that Zelda is definitely going to have better edgeguarding, I'm just saying to hold your horses. It'll probably lead to disappointment.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8qmnwj/falln_you_can_do_a_non_directional_airdodge_and/

 

[Katy Parry]

The point is that since you only get one airdodge, forcing them to burn it with Din's opens them up into all kinds of Zelda things. Heck, you could probably even fake out dodge happy players by detonating early to give yourself even more time.

Alternatively, you could fully charge the Phantom then jump to intercept them as they avoid the Phantom (or get hit by it and die)

With the airdodge change, I can see why they made true combos rarer. The neutral will probably be more about pushing your advantage state after removing their defensive options.

That’s exactly why I think the first hit of the game is more important then ever. True combos most likely happen at early percents, and they probabaly aren’t but 3, 4 hits tops

 

[Rickster]

Now we have to remember that our princess is also subject to the airdodge rule...which means our disadvantage state will probably be worse than it has ever been. Nairo and ZeRo were saying something about the uncharged Phantoms not having hitboxes, which is really unfortunate (if it's true/I'm understanding correctly). That was one of her main ways to relieve pressure in Smash 4, which would've been incredibly useful with Ultimate's mechanics.

But then again our grounded defensive game has been buffed with reports of speed improvements (and stuff like Phantom) so idk, maybe it won't be so bad.

 

[DNeon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8qmnwj/falln_you_can_do_a_non_directional_airdodge_and/

I'd need to go back and check but I don't believe that's true, in that thread you also have people mentioning that the invitational had people acting after their directional air-dodge. Definitely seems like something that would have been mentioned specifically in the direct.

Especially since that is literally the only mention of it I've seen so far. Seems like people would be making a MUCH bigger deal of it. Unfortunately Twitter doesn't seem to be working for me atr the moment so I can't see that twitter thread directly.

EDIT: Ok saw the twitter thread, he was wrong about freefall, still don't see other mentions of 1 airdodge.

 

[Katy Parry]

GUYS OH MY GOD GAMEPLAY FROM TESTERS THIS IS NOT A DRILL

Second HALF
Updating as I go:
DINS IS GODLY

EDIT. PARTIAL ARMOR ACTS LIKE SMASH 4 PHANTOM.

Phantom has 3 charges - all have hurt boxes. The first charge is a slow gut punch, the second is a fast sword slash, the third is a delayed and longest reaching hit.



WE ARE ****ING BACK. WE HAVE A MIX UP. does Zelda release phantom and hit me or does she wait and try to combo me, forcing them to react. Oh. My. God.

https://youtu.be/9e99Me0NjRw

 

[DNeon]

HOLY **** CHARGED PHANTOM IS LEGIT SOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD

 

[「 Derk 」]

The new Phantom Slash is sick! There is plenty of time between setting it to apply safe pressure/combo with the phantom. Zelda is actually a character after 3 games... It's beautiful. I bet you could Farore's Wind into people while the phantom covers you after for a lot of safe shield pressure. Gives us much safer approach/kill options that's for sure.

The last thing on my checklist of wanted adjustments is that I hope the drift added to Farore's Wind makes it easier to edge cancel around the stage. You have to be insanely accurate with it in Smash 4 so it's super risky compared to characters like Palutena and Mewtwo's teleport cancels.

 

[Rickster]

I'd need to go back and check but I don't believe that's true, in that thread you also have people mentioning that the invitational had people acting after their directional air-dodge. Definitely seems like something that would have been mentioned specifically in the direct.

Especially since that is literally the only mention of it I've seen so far. Seems like people would be making a MUCH bigger deal of it. Unfortunately Twitter doesn't seem to be working for me atr the moment so I can't see that twitter thread directly.

EDIT: Ok saw the twitter thread, he was wrong about freefall, still don't see other mentions of 1 airdodge.

He claims he tested it (on a tall stage, at that) and pushing shield in the air more than one time isn't a particularly difficult thing to test, so I'm inclined to believe him.

And why else do you think so many aerials were eaten in the 1v1s from the invitational? If multiple dodges could be done I'm sure the players would've done it instead of getting hit again and again.

Also, if you could airdodge more than once, you would be able to infinitely hover given enough space (think like...the space around Hyrule Temple).

GUYS OH MY GOD GAMEPLAY FROM TESTERS THIS IS NOT A DRILL

Second HALF
Updating as I go:
DINS IS GODLY

EDIT. PARTIAL ARMOR ACTS LIKE SMASH 4 PHANTOM.

Phantom has 3 charges - all have hurt boxes. The first charge is a slow gut punch, the second is a fast sword slash, the third is a delayed and longest reaching hit.



WE ARE ****ING BACK. WE HAVE A MIX UP. does Zelda release phantom and hit me or does she wait and try to combo me, forcing them to react. Oh. My. God.

https://youtu.be/9e99Me0NjRw

YAAAS IT DOES HAVE A HITBOX
AND THE AUTOCANCEL DIDN'T LOOK HORRENDOUS ON THAT EARLY BAIR
AND UAIR'S LAG IS...WHERE?

ZELDA CONFIRMED CANCEROUS
BAN ZELDA.

 

[Katy Parry]

He claims he tested it (on a tall stage, at that) and pushing shield in the air more than one time isn't a particularly difficult thing to test, so I'm inclined to believe him.

And why else do you think so many aerials were eaten in the 1v1s from the invitational? If multiple dodges could be done I'm sure the players would've done it instead of getting hit again and again.

Also, if you could airdodge more than once, you would be able to infinitely hover given enough space (think like...the space around Hyrule Temple).

YAAAS IT DOES HAVE A HITBOX

ZELDA CONFIRMED CANCEROUS
BAN ZELDA.

MORE LIKE BAN HYLIA

LOOK AT HOW FAST DINS FIRE REACHES LINK FOR THE SUDDEN DEATH KILL IT BEAT HIS ARROWS BECAUSE THE KNOCKBACK KILLED HIM FASTER

I’m so glad I found that video. YouTubing Smash Bros Zelda and refreshing over and over and over with the upload date at the top. This was uploaded 42 minutes ago, mind you, and we actually have gameplay of Zelda, first, before a **** ton of others out there

I’m waiting for lightning to strike and Zelda fights in a wheelchair

Zeddy Rosavelda

Anyone got any theory craft combo ideas or set up ideas?

Down Grab seems to combo into nair. Nair looks better slightly. Set end knockback. Follow up at high percents for the kill, or a low to mid combo? [downthrow > nair > falling phantom full charge > grab > backthrow into phantom > dins Fire Chase

Not sure how phantom works in the air just yet

 

[Rickster]

That jab damage was kinda sucky though...it did like 5-6%

oh well if we get all this other stuff I'LL TAKE IT.

And...did Ftilt's blindspot look improved/fixed?

 

[DNeon]

He claims he tested it (on a tall stage, at that) and pushing shield in the air more than one time isn't a particularly difficult thing to test, so I'm inclined to believe him.

I'm not saying I don't trust the guy or that he simply must be wrong, but with this being the first I've heard of it and that being a pretty ****in big change I'm just maintaining my sketicism. Hell it could even be a bug if it's something that hasn't been mentioned.

Also, if you could airdodge more than once, you would be able to infinitely hover given enough space (think like...the space around Hyrule Temple).

Which is incorrect, since we already know that directional airdodges have massive endlag and that endlag increases the more you use it. If the endlag is enough to cause people to SD I'm pretty sure it's a hell of a lot more than it would need to be to prevent people from hovering.

Look. I'm not saying this **** straight up isn't true, Im saying to hold your horses on the excitement for some of these hypothetical combos and edgeguard cases. Hell Sakurai said that he saw some stuff that he needs to change.

 

[Katy Parry]

That jab damage was kinda sucky though...it did like 5-6%

oh well if we get all this other stuff I'LL TAKE IT.

And...did Ftilt's blindspot look improved/fixed?

Keep in mind the jabs have three stages now, and you can hold in between to rapid hit before you press again to launch them away. =)

 

[McKnightlíght]

So if Zelda isn't tra5h in this game how am I going to make jokes about it?

 

[Alacion]

Fujin <3 Didn't think I would like the new Zelda look but it's really growing on me.

But yeah let's keep this part of smash boards Fire Emblem Heroes free please.

 

[.Shìkì]

Zelda not terrible anymore? is this a dream?! First everyone is back, then Ridley is in, and now this?! HYPE!

 

[Jaguar360]

Zelda is such a CUTIEEEE

Never thought I'd be happy with brunette Twilight Princess Zelda removed, but Ultimate's certainly done Zelda justice. Will be using her black and TP-reference costumes for sure.

Glad the team's finally listening by making Din's not much Zelda into freefall (likewise with Sheik grenade) and being able to act out of charged Phantom earlier. The slight speed boost and landing lag buffs are also much appreciated! Can't wait to use this cinnamon roll cutie and probably won't be using Smash 4 Zelda for a while lol.

 

[.Shìkì]

Like the new design although TP Zelda is my favourite. Will be using the black dressed one for sure.

The only thing I now need to make this perfect is easier to hit sweetspots on her aerials haha.

 

[BJN39]

Might as well make that a three-post chain about stanning black dress QUEEN.

There's at least four of us if 「 Derk 」 sis sticks with ha too (That's me clocking your fabulous guide visuals)

 

[「 Derk 」]

Black and purple are my 2 favorite colors so probably!

 

[Alacion]

So uh... Zelda's pre-Smash Ultimate kits were more defense oriented especially in Brawl and Wii U. I'm just wondering how Zelda will fare in an aggressive smash game. Her only true approach is... dash attack?

I appreciate the lower landing lag from her kicks, and partly being able to keep Phantom Knight's charge. Perhaps Phantom Knight will be a good cover for Zelda to go in? And also those landing Din's Fires Ven used to do in Brawl to kind of cover his landings may actually be a viable thing now.

Supposedly Marth's tippers are very generous like in Melee. Please let Zelda's kicks be equally as generous. 10% for sourspots and bigger hitboxes for sweetspots please!

Edit: On second thought... it's not like Zeldas really spammed rolls. It was more like dtilt, fsmash, and shield [grabs]. Maybe Zelda can stick to her old ways after all. Farore's Wind hit 1 should not be DI-able please

And finally, I'm pretty happy Zelda got some updated victory poses... not like in Smash Wii U where Zelda did nothing and it was just the camera moving lol. https://youtu.be/9e99Me0NjRw?t=6m27s

The first one in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy4s96jM6a8 just does not cut it.

The Brawl version had some sass though, lol. https://youtu.be/k4735n2_IEM?t=3m55s

 

[Ffamran]

Her only true approach is... dash attack?

Zelda should be able to use jab, tilts, and any of her Smashes out of dashes now with the changes to what can be canceled out of a dash. Spaced jabs and Ftilts in my head, not sure what the frame data for those would be in smUsh, seem like they could work well and depending on shield stun and pushback, maybe Side Smash and Down Smash? Her higher run speed, seems like she is faster, helps too, but everyone seems to be faster, so there's that. smUsh Zelda could be like Smash 4 Mario in run speed, but end up being Zelda in smUsh run speed.

Edit: How does Phantom Slash even work in smUsh? If it's more like a guardian or is much faster, I could see her using it as an approach cover. Sort of like a meatshield for her to get in.

 

[Jaguar360]

So uh... Zelda's pre-Smash Ultimate kits were more defense oriented especially in Brawl and Wii U. I'm just wondering how Zelda will fare in an aggressive smash game. Her only true approach is... dash attack?

I appreciate the lower landing lag from her kicks, and partly being able to keep Phantom Knight's charge. Perhaps Phantom Knight will be a good cover for Zelda to go in? And also those landing Din's Fires Ven used to do in Brawl to kind of cover his landings may actually be a viable thing now.

Supposedly Marth's tippers are very generous like in Melee. Please let Zelda's kicks be equally as generous. 10% for sourspots and bigger hitboxes for sweetspots please!

Edit: On second thought... it's not like Zeldas really spammed rolls. It was more like dtilt, fsmash, and shield [grabs]. Maybe Zelda can stick to her old ways after all. Farore's Wind hit 1 should not be DI-able please

And finally, I'm pretty happy Zelda got some updated victory poses... not like in Smash Wii U where Zelda did nothing and it was just the camera moving lol. https://youtu.be/9e99Me0NjRw?t=6m27s

The first one in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy4s96jM6a8 just does not cut it.

The Brawl version had some sass though, lol. https://youtu.be/k4735n2_IEM?t=3m55s

Being able to do tilts and smash attacks out of dash should help her a lot, that's a pretty big buff for d-tilt. Plus with how jab has changed to become more standard, it should be faster now and help tie her neutral together a bit. I do wish that she got a real projectile, because I do think she needs that to do really solid, but she should overall be much better at approaching.

Frame 3 jumpsquat and probably less lag on aerials should also help.

 

[Ffamran]

Has anyone screenshotted Zelda's sadistic face when she does her Final Smash yet? Maybe it would be better and easier to do when the game's out.

 

[Alias]

Zelda isn't trash anymore??
I LIVE

but then I remember all the high praise she was getting in that short time between post 2013 E3 and sm4sh's release

 

[BJN39]

Zelda isn't trash anymore??
I LIVE

but then I remember all the high praise she was getting in that short time between post 2013 E3 and sm4sh's release

Don’t worry, the negativity squad is on the case much earlier this time

and most of us are hardcore in data and research so we’ll be adequately informed before we make our ultimate (pun) decision on her true usefulness.

 

[Kyle B]

Spoiler: Images

Spoiler: Gif

@ Ffamran
I tried my best with some MSPaint work, Honestly, I LOVE the new Final Smash. It honestly looks like she just deletes you, it's so good.
Sorry that they are a bit blurry, but what can you do? No one picks her so I don't have many places to pick up good moments to screenshot (-_-)
this is from the reveal
edits: Fixed a ton of grammar issues, I usually edit those out before a post, too excited XD. Already got quoted though so rip.
Added a Gif! Why? Because College Math is boring...

 

[Farorae]

Apparently Lightning kick does 30%

 

[Ffamran]

Spoiler: Images

View attachment 148137View attachment 148135

I tried my best with some MSPaint work, Honestly, I LOVE the new Final Smash. "I banish you to hell!"
Sorry that they are a bit blurry, but what can you do? No one picks her so I don't many places to pick up good moments to screenshot (-_-), this is from the reveal.

Yay! Sadism!

 

[Morbi]

Zelda isn't trash anymore??
I LIVE

but then I remember all the high praise she was getting in that short time between post 2013 E3 and sm4sh's release

It is just because Zelda is a pubstomper. Any character that is easy to pick up and get value with is deemed "OP" at the start when nobody knows what they are doing, it happened with Bowser and Mac, two other relatively worthless characters.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Will Ke$ha Zelda make a comeback tho? That's the best palette!

 

[Jaguar360]

Will Ke$ha Zelda make a comeback tho? That's the best palette!

Probably not, these are Zelda's palettes atm via our good gorl Ven: https://twitter.com/SUGOI_ven/status/1006620324664709120, https://twitter.com/SUGOI_ven/status/1006620365315960833