Social Zelda Social - Still the queen of Smash...and maybe queen of low tier for a decade, too. Shall we make it two?

[TheFacelessOne]

Personally if I wanted to improve the design I'd make it so when she cancels the charge(if she can in the final build) then the phantom still lingers in place and assembles itself (takes twice as long though). It would make it a better stage control tool since she can still activate it at any time. If they improve dins fire just a little more to she'd have a potent zoning game.

 

[Rickster]

I'm really worried that Zelda will have trouble relieving pressure in this game since the defensive options have been nerfed so much. They reworked the Phantom to give her an extra defensive/control option, but if the opponent gets in on her she'll be in a horrible position. Disadvantage is gonna be scary

Edit: On second thought, I suppose the Phantom dying on hit gives opponents a reason to approach, which is something Zelda has always lacked. Letting her set up Phantom traps for free probably wouldn't be a good idea

 

[KlicKlac]

Here's some more zelda gameplay. Dtilt and dthrow looking bad...we may not have any confirms to upair.

 

[Freelance Spy]

I'm really worried that Zelda will have trouble relieving pressure in this game since the defensive options have been nerfed so much. They reworked the Phantom to give her an extra defensive/control option, but if the opponent gets in on her she'll be in a horrible position. Disadvantage is gonna be scary

Edit: On second thought, I suppose the Phantom dying on hit gives opponents a reason to approach, which is something Zelda has always lacked. Letting her set up Phantom traps for free probably wouldn't be a good idea

We are going to die, Phantom won't help much.

 

[Katy Parry]

Here's some more zelda gameplay. Dtilt and dthrow looking bad...we may not have any confirms to upair.

Dude. No. The moves aren’t bad. I’ll get the gif but i see what you’re saying. It’s more like Melee now. That Zelda after downthrowing squirtle should have wavelanded onto plat and grabbed squirtles tech.

EDIT

Bad follow up. Notice how she held him long enough to remove some “notgrabbable right now” frames. She was able to have plenty of time to waveland onto left plat and grab a second time.

Here’s what he should have done.

Zelda chases the enemy after throwing by jumping, wave landing in place, and waits to grab his tech.
Again I play and main Melee Zelda hard.

She’s getting her Melee combos back. I see it and it’s like nobody else on here does, cause ya’ll only play Smash 4 Zelda.

This is not Smash 4 Zelda.

I keep seeing comments on how she’s going to be so much weaker because she doesn’t have defensive options.

Phantom is a game changer for her kit. If she had that in Melee, she would have been ridiculously hard to beat, and I’m sure her place on the tier list would still be near Marth.

If you get a fair or bair at 15%, you’re going to get a free Phantom. If you get a fair or bair approach, meaning you call them out with a kick jumping towards them, you can charge Phantom as you fall and punish their option select. If they jump out of hit stun, keep charging. Keep charging until they run at you. If they air dodge as their falling, punish the air dodge with Phantom.

Get a bair or fair at 40%, charge Phantom fully for free. Mash grab and you’ll grab as soon as the moves over (unless we can later cancel with shield, even better just cancel into shield grab, but I doubt this will change) or pop it early if they approach. If they jump over you, you should have the overhead stage (stage 4) ready.

Phantom covers jump barely charged and you can most likely jab reset with Phantom stage one, by downthrowing at 0 percent if they don’t tech the throw, because it hits so low.

She has all the options she needs. In every game but Melee she’s trash. Melee Zelda is good still because of Melee’s engine and physics. Smash Ultimate seems like no exception.

Please stop making rash judgments, it’s really killing my hype.

 

[KlicKlac]

Dude. No. The moves aren’t bad. I’ll get the gif but i see what you’re saying. It’s more like Melee now. That Zelda after downthrowing squirtle should have wavelanded onto plat and grabbed squirtles tech.

EDIT

Bad follow up. Notice how she held him long enough to remove some “notgrabbable right now” frames. She was able to have plenty of time to waveland onto left plat and grab a second time.

Here’s what he should have done.

Zelda chases the enemy after throwing by jumping, wave landing in place, and waits to grab his tech.
Again I play and main Melee Zelda hard.

She’s getting her Melee combos back. I see it and it’s like nobody else on here does, cause ya’ll only play Smash 4 Zelda.

This is not Smash 4 Zelda.

I keep seeing comments on how she’s going to be so much weaker because she doesn’t have defensive options.

Phantom is a game changer for her kit. If she had that in Melee, she would have been ridiculously hard to beat, and I’m sure her place on the tier list would still be near Marth.

If you get a fair or bair at 15%, you’re going to get a free Phantom. If you get a fair or bair approach, meaning you call them out with a kick jumping towards them, you can charge Phantom as you fall and punish their option select. If they jump out of hit stun, keep charging. Keep charging until they run at you. If they air dodge as their falling, punish the air dodge with Phantom.

Get a bair or fair at 40%, charge Phantom fully for free. Mash grab and you’ll grab as soon as the moves over (unless we can later cancel with shield, even better just cancel into shield grab, but I doubt this will change) or pop it early if they approach. If they jump over you, you should have the overhead stage (stage 4) ready.

Phantom covers jump barely charged and you can most likely jab reset with Phantom stage one, by downthrowing at 0 percent if they don’t tech the throw, because it hits so low.

She has all the options she needs. In every game but Melee she’s trash. Melee Zelda is good still because of Melee’s engine and physics. Smash Ultimate seems like no exception.

Please stop making rash judgments, it’s really killing my hype.

I personally think there's still true stuff we can do off of dtilt and dthrow, but we need time to go and actually test stuff out. I shouldn't have said the moves are bad, but the uses may be more limited, and it doesn't look like they confirm into upair anymore based on conversations I had with people who tried out zelda at the demo. I hope I'm wrong and the first thing I'll do when I get the game is go test out combos. There's still upthrow combos that need to be tested too.

 

[Katy Parry]

I personally think there's still true stuff we can do off of dtilt and dthrow, but we need time to go and actually test stuff out. I shouldn't have said the moves are bad, but the uses may be more limited, and is it doesn't look like they confirm into upair anymore based on conversations I had with people who tried out zelda at the demo. I hope I'm wrong and the first thing I'll do when I get the game is go test out combos. There's still upthrow combos that need to be tested too.

Correct. She’s not going to have the same combo game from Smash 4. At all.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Dude. No. The moves aren’t bad. I’ll get the gif but i see what you’re saying. It’s more like Melee now. That Zelda after downthrowing squirtle should have wavelanded onto plat and grabbed squirtles tech.

EDIT

Bad follow up. Notice how she held him long enough to remove some “notgrabbable right now” frames. She was able to have plenty of time to waveland onto left plat and grab a second time.

Here’s what he should have done.

Zelda chases the enemy after throwing by jumping, wave landing in place, and waits to grab his tech.
Again I play and main Melee Zelda hard.

She’s getting her Melee combos back. I see it and it’s like nobody else on here does, cause ya’ll only play Smash 4 Zelda.

This is not Smash 4 Zelda.

I keep seeing comments on how she’s going to be so much weaker because she doesn’t have defensive options.

Phantom is a game changer for her kit. If she had that in Melee, she would have been ridiculously hard to beat, and I’m sure her place on the tier list would still be near Marth.

If you get a fair or bair at 15%, you’re going to get a free Phantom. If you get a fair or bair approach, meaning you call them out with a kick jumping towards them, you can charge Phantom as you fall and punish their option select. If they jump out of hit stun, keep charging. Keep charging until they run at you. If they air dodge as their falling, punish the air dodge with Phantom.

Get a bair or fair at 40%, charge Phantom fully for free. Mash grab and you’ll grab as soon as the moves over (unless we can later cancel with shield, even better just cancel into shield grab, but I doubt this will change) or pop it early if they approach. If they jump over you, you should have the overhead stage (stage 4) ready.

Phantom covers jump barely charged and you can most likely jab reset with Phantom stage one, by downthrowing at 0 percent if they don’t tech the throw, because it hits so low.

She has all the options she needs. In every game but Melee she’s trash. Melee Zelda is good still because of Melee’s engine and physics. Smash Ultimate seems like no exception.

Please stop making rash judgments, it’s really killing my hype.

Dude...

https://m.wikihow.com/Develop-a-Friendly-Tone-of-Voice

 

[Katy Parry]

Dude...

https://m.wikihow.com/Develop-a-Friendly-Tone-of-Voice

Man, I apologize for any misunderstanding, but my tone, anyone’s tone - can’t be properly detected through text. However, you’re writing me off to sound mean when I’m passionate about the game, that’s it. Now my post I put effort into sincerely, you’ve snubbed.

My pants still come off at night like everybody else’s. I don’t believe I’m superior or anything, here.

Not only that, but now you’ve actually hurt my feelings on a public level. I took several speech and theater classes when I was a kid, and grew up in a school where I was the only gay kid. No one wanted to talk to me. So I only learned to communicate through acting and “faked it until I made it”. I work in sales and customer service now, and I do pretty well for myself at this point, because I can be fake and kiss ass. So my life is pretty fabricated as it is, but I sincerely do not appreciate you feeling the need to call out my shortcomings, which are effects from the way my life turned out. Just some psychoanalysis for ya. Because here, I have always been myself. I am allowed to let someone know how I feel, especially when we have previous report. What if he was my best friend, that I talk to often enough to where I can say “dude. No. “ and it’s just as lighthearted as me saying LOL guys let’s not worrryomg. Think about it this way”
Can I not be frustrated that I feel alone in this matter?

So as much as I change myself for work, literally become 2 faced, means I at the very least know now as a 26 year old how to present myself on the internet, let alone to people I’ll be talking to for years to come.

PM me if you have anything else that personal to say. Because now, it’s you who looks rude. And you’ve got nothing to contribute to the actual conversation at hand, man. That’s all any of us care about.

Now I get to go into work and start my day off right. Lol instead of making some breakfast I decided to reply to you instead. So that was dumb on my part.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Edit: On second thought, I suppose the Phantom dying on hit gives opponents a reason to approach, which is something Zelda has always lacked. Letting her set up Phantom traps for free probably wouldn't be a good idea

I actually did do this in Sm4sh. When they ran in to attack the phantom, I'd strike back with a dash attack or forward smash.

 

[Katy Parry]

I actually did do this in Sm4sh. When they ran in to attack the phantom, I'd strike back with a dash attack or forward smash.

Right but in smash 4 they had reason to break it because you lose it for ten seconds. In this they have to break it or you get the delay so it forces approach even more. Not only that but now they need to hit YOU before it comes out and if you run away, they'll face the phantom and risk being punished.

It's just gonna be a matter of mind gaming them. It's an excellent move and I'm PUMPED

 

[KuroganeHammer]

LOL why would you ever waveland to continue a combo in ssbu when it has like 8 trillion years of lag are you trolling

 

[Rickster]

Right but in smash 4 they had reason to break it because you lose it for ten seconds. In this they have to break it or you get the delay so it forces approach even more. Not only that but now they need to hit YOU before it comes out and if you run away, they'll face the phantom and risk being punished.

It's just gonna be a matter of mind gaming them. It's an excellent move and I'm PUMPED

I disagree with your first point; there really wasn't a reason to bother destroying it in 4. Just run out of range while she's charging or shield it and wait for it to go away. In fact, Zelda actually wants the opponent to waste time on it since it gives her an opening.

In Ultimate, the delayed Phantom covers a very large area, effectively turning that area into a "danger zone" that gives Zelda a much easier approach. Obviously the opponent won't want Zelda to spam her stage control move, so they're going to be more inclined to come to her. In Smash 4, the best counter to Phantom is to ignore it tbh

 

[Nammy12]

Dude. No. The moves aren’t bad. I’ll get the gif but i see what you’re saying. It’s more like Melee now. That Zelda after downthrowing squirtle should have wavelanded onto plat and grabbed squirtles tech.

EDIT

Bad follow up. Notice how she held him long enough to remove some “notgrabbable right now” frames. She was able to have plenty of time to waveland onto left plat and grab a second time.

Here’s what he should have done.

Zelda chases the enemy after throwing by jumping, wave landing in place, and waits to grab his tech.
Again I play and main Melee Zelda hard.

She’s getting her Melee combos back. I see it and it’s like nobody else on here does, cause ya’ll only play Smash 4 Zelda.

This is not Smash 4 Zelda.

I keep seeing comments on how she’s going to be so much weaker because she doesn’t have defensive options.

Phantom is a game changer for her kit. If she had that in Melee, she would have been ridiculously hard to beat, and I’m sure her place on the tier list would still be near Marth.

If you get a fair or bair at 15%, you’re going to get a free Phantom. If you get a fair or bair approach, meaning you call them out with a kick jumping towards them, you can charge Phantom as you fall and punish their option select. If they jump out of hit stun, keep charging. Keep charging until they run at you. If they air dodge as their falling, punish the air dodge with Phantom.

Get a bair or fair at 40%, charge Phantom fully for free. Mash grab and you’ll grab as soon as the moves over (unless we can later cancel with shield, even better just cancel into shield grab, but I doubt this will change) or pop it early if they approach. If they jump over you, you should have the overhead stage (stage 4) ready.

Phantom covers jump barely charged and you can most likely jab reset with Phantom stage one, by downthrowing at 0 percent if they don’t tech the throw, because it hits so low.

She has all the options she needs. In every game but Melee she’s trash. Melee Zelda is good still because of Melee’s engine and physics. Smash Ultimate seems like no exception.

Please stop making rash judgments, it’s really killing my hype.

In hindsight its easy to say what the player should have done but I doubt maxy has too much experience in the smash u zelda/squirtle matchup lol

Grab invuln starts when the player is thrown not when they were grabbed so there's probably not enough time to waveland grab and thats assuming that its even fast enough to catch the tech.

Plus a tech chase requiring specific platform placement as a followup isn't what I would call consistent

Landing fair/bair in neutral isn't exactly the easiest thing for zelda to do and the part about the phantom is assuming you're making the opponent come to you. Zelda doesn't really have anything to force the opponent to approach like cloud limit so most of this is irrelevant if the opponent plays defensively like in smash 4.

 

[meleebrawler]

The Phantom is now pretty much like Duck Hunt's Wild Gunman, except you can control when and where it hits.

 

[BJN39]

Katy Parry I can’t help but feel like your responses often come off like you know better about how this Zelda will work because most of us play predominantly Smash 4 while you play Melee Zelda. I couldn’t possibly say we know which iteration Zelda will land closer to (though I am betting closer to SSB4 than Melee personally) but I’d say we definitely don’t know which she’s more like, and honestly theorycrafting off either is clearly not going to work since SSB ultimate has shown itself to be different enough from both. It’s, well, obviously easy to misread internet speak, but I’ve just been feeling a vibe that you’ve been treating SSB4 based opinions as inferior when they are equally as valid as Melee viewpoints at this time.

Also, McKnightlight is like one of my own children, which is why I know she is a dirty fight-baiting troll that you can pay no mind to since he tryna rile you up. If all else fails actually ignoring ha with the ignore function can do the trick, haha.


Anyways, to kinda 2 cents, the Phantom interrupt death is lame, but I personally like more of the design trade offs we’ve received. I do think a charge cancel with shield tho would be essential to the design if a mere projectile could cancel it. That said one of those aforementioned new traits—the ability to make a new one as soon as one is destroyed—alliviates this a bit (not 100%) and I like the immediate reusability.

Also any talk of her Dtilt ever being good is always 50% wrong. Brawl had great trip-locking and the best range and damage of the iterations, but S4’s Dtilt was always a bad version of the “good style” of Dtilts (see Mewtwo/Bayonetta for the optimal design of that Dtilt) Zelda’s own has a couple (negligible) frames more endlag, and way worse damage. The range was also frustratingly small for one of her only good neutrals back then.

SSB ultimate’s appears to carry mostly traits from S4’s, range being basically unconfirmable but clockably similar to the last iterations, anyways.

 

[TheFacelessOne]

Dude...

https://m.wikihow.com/Develop-a-Friendly-Tone-of-Voice

I love you.

Katy Parry I can’t help but feel like your responses often come off like you know better about how this Zelda will work because most of us play predominantly Smash 4 while you play Melee Zelda. I couldn’t possibly say we know which iteration Zelda will land closer to (though I am betting closer to SSB4 than Melee personally) but I’d say we definitely don’t know which she’s more like, and honestly theorycrafting off either is clearly not going to work since SSB ultimate has shown itself to be different enough from both. It’s, well, obviously easy to misread internet speak, but I’ve just been feeling a vibe that you’ve been treating SSB4 based opinions as inferior when they are equally as valid as Melee viewpoints at this time.

It's not just you. Phantom honestly if you don't want to come off this way you'll need to choose your words more carefully. It's how you're saying things that are giving off this vibe.

 

[Rickster]

Personally I think this Zelda (and honestly this Smash game in general) will be unlike anything we're used to. On top of redesigned moves, there are a lot of core changes to the gameplay. We haven't been able to use any ground attack out of a run since Melee (but keep in mind there are more good ground moves now, and also no variables such as wavedash length), never had this kind of perfect shielding before, haven't had these airdodge mechanics before (Melee is close but not exactly like it), never had universal jumpsquats, etc.

Anyway, my point is that we can't be all doom and gloom about Zelda since the mechanics have changed so drastically. She isn't going to play like any other version at all.

 

[Katy Parry]

Alright guys, I tried. Take it easy. I'll just lurk from now on. I'm the only Melee Zelda here so it's like my experience and words hold no value here. It really sucks.

You guys completely ignore everything I relate to Melee anyway. I'm not saying Smash 4 Zelda experience is invalid, but it's not the same game. It's a game they're trying to make more like Melee. That's obvious. More competitive in general as well.

Then I go into detailed explainations to try to explain myself. I used to be on the debate boards back I. The day here, so I'm used to debunking.

But after everything I say, I'm not met with any understanding or even "wow, never thought of that"

And then I get literally humiliated by someone thinking they have the call to correct how I speak. I don't feel welcome here at all.

It's like no one even reads what I have to say, or the heartfelt and dedication I put in to finding things.

I used to be here way back in 07, and times have changed i guess. People had no issue with how I've communicated until now.

So, au revior peeps. Now you can rejoice in my absence.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

We will miss your attempts to revolutionize the meta six months before the game is out. We salute you, soldier.

 

[Katy Parry]

We will miss your attempts to revolutionize the meta six months before the game is out. We salute you, soldier.

Right here it's what I'm talking about. So much sarcasm. That's not welcoming or inviting at all, yet when I get passionate about what I know, it's not even acknowledged. It hurts someone's feelings to pretty much be ostracized, and then imply that I've pretty much done this to myself. Sheesh.

 

[Ffamran]

Kind of related to Zelda, but does anyone here think Ganondorf looks like a goon in Ultimate? Toon Link being an exception for obvious reasons, everyone from the Zelda games but Ganondorf look normal. Ganondorf has this massive schnoz and an hourglass figure thing going on and when runs or leans forward, he looks like some kind of goblin creature and it's kind of hard to take him seriously. I mean, look at this.

Spoiler: Ultimate Ganondorf

Maybe it's the skin tight outfit he has, but Ganondorf's proportions are a bit weird in this game compared to the previous ones, especially Melee which is the most comparable.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's probably just because his face is so ridiculous. But the run animation is kinda ugly.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Didn't he look kinda of goblinish in Oot? I mean he nose was pretty big there.

TBH I don't know why he's OOT Ganondorf here. TP Ganondorf was way better. But alas.

 

[BJN39]

I do actually think your Melee based angle will bring something very interesting and different once the game is out, and I hope you’ll stick through here until then, Phantom Slash. Keep that passion, and we can both be ready kill her metagame development on release~


I think the speculation talk, shocker, heats up easily. And hex if I didn’t wanna know some answers about Zelda in this game that we don’t have yet!

 

[meleebrawler]

The face perfectly demonstrates what kind of person OOT Ganondorf is. He honestly believes nothing bad can ever happen to him and is used
to always getting his way when he wants it. Then Link makes him cough up some blood and his face becomes even more ridiculous in disbelief.

His applause in this game strangely goes in the opposite direction though, looking more sad & disappointed than anything. Still better than looking oddly
happy (and not in a ''now I have you figured out'' way) in 4, though.

 

[McKnightlíght]

I just believe everyone (especially me) should be ribbed every once in a while. Especially when they are taking something very seriously. You can ignore me, but I'm not being insincere, just a little mean spirited. Generally that breeds comradery and truly that's my only goal, I'd like us to be friendly with one another and taking someone down a few notches levels the playing field.

Now as far as speculating 6 months out on very little knowledge I would say Zelda looks fun and I hope she gets buffed and Sakurai realizes her shortcomings. She could be very different by the time the game comes out and we should encourage that.

 

[TheFacelessOne]

In other news https://youtu.be/RxpaKwliAgc?t=1m36s
(double check if I'm wrong if you like)
Just from the time her hand starts glowing to the time she turns and charges her forward smash (assuming it was buffered) I'm counting a faf of 40 upon releasing dins and an active hitbox on 9-10 (it's 60 fps this time I swear). Isn't that the same faf as smash4 fox's blaster?
Also fully charged phantom seemed like it took 80 frames to fully charge (but I wasn't sure I lost count so don't quote me on this).

I like the faster faf on dins. some travel time adjustments, trancendant hitbox, and maybe an earlier hitbox (to make it easier to hit) and it could be a decent neutral tool.

 

[Squii The Fish]

Dude. No. The moves aren’t bad. I’ll get the gif but i see what you’re saying. It’s more like Melee now. That Zelda after downthrowing squirtle should have wavelanded onto plat and grabbed squirtles tech.

Please stop making rash judgments, it’s really killing my hype.

LOL why would you ever waveland to continue a combo in ssbu when it has like 8 trillion years of lag are you trolling

Hi there phantom I don't mean to stack on any criticism or anything like that
But from what i can tell using wave landing as a approach option or too continue a combo in this current build of the game seems quite unreliable do to the end lag it carries.

I also also don't think this zelda has shown too many melee Zelda combo's but I like your view on advantage and disadvantage states.

 

[Katy Parry]

LOL why would you ever waveland to continue a combo in ssbu when it has like 8 trillion years of lag are you trolling

Did you even watch the gif I posted with it? It has 20 frames of landing lag is SSBU. In Melee, Sheik has 20 frames of lag when autocancelling a short hop on Yoshis. That's crazy fast. She could have immediately grabbed when Squirtle came out of his tech.

Why are you acting like I'm freaking stupid? You think I'm purposely giving out false information?

My thoughts and ideas get laughed at, literally. Which isn't rude at all, obviously. Then I implore with my own skill and technique, to try to back it up. No different than applying for a customer service position and I have a customer service background. I feel I could have a good impact.

I placed 7th a SHUFFL when Smash 3DS first came out. Before the patches. That still counts for something. It's a shame I can't use that as experience to back up my theorycrafting here. That's cocky and rude, as I've been told.

Then, everybody goes and likes your comment, like it's some secret giggle club. when I bet I've watched more videos on Zelda and stayed up days counting frame data. But I can't say that. That's rude as I've been told.

I want to know, just out of curiosity. What is the highest any Zelda here, on the social thread, has placed in a tournament with Zelda? I have nothing to prove or gain whether you care or not. I would like to talk to some high placing Zelda's to get their thoughts.

I am always open to conversation and being corrected if I'm wrong. But im not for being made fun of, being laughed at.

Besides, who are you?

Hi there phantom I don't mean to stack on any criticism or anything like that
But from what i can tell using wave landing as a approach option or too continue a combo in this current build of the game seems quite unreliable do to the end lag it carries.

I also also don't think this zelda has shown too many melee Zelda combo's but I like your view on advantage and disadvantage states.

Right. She hasn't really shown combos but it's because no one is thinking to play her differently, that's all, and that doesn't mean I think they're bad or stupid (see Nario incident)

I have to say the 20 frames of lag doesn't matter because Squirtle would still have been in his tech animation.

So if you watch the Melee gif I posted of Comso vs Deku, Zelda can just reposition. Zelda has always be a defensive fighter.. in Smash 4 she really lacked a lot of tools and so I understand and empathize thinking that Smash Ultimate would be no exception.

 

[Alacion]

Zelda must be buffed with increasing the ease of playing her in mind. Nobody's going to pick her up if the sweetspot hitboxes keep getting smaller.

If we're really going to talk about Cosmo/Narcissa, what could be better than Melee mechanics completely invalidating her up smash? (Because who really owns Melee 1.0 anyway let alone managing to play on a setup with it)

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS4HBUJZcik

 

[Musha4DaWin]

I've never played Melee, but I have played the other two, and watched videos on Melee, so in my opinion, Zelda is looking like she can both combo and blast her foes to the shadow realm. She's looking to be anywhere from mid-tier to top-tier, and that's scary. Zelda has been bad in so many ways before, but now things are looking up. In terms of similarity, she looks like a cross between SSB4 and SSBM. The phantom changes are impactful on her gameplay, and the new knockback may even help her land F-airs and B-airs easier. And she's so kawaii And her frame data is looking to be faster than ever. In other words, RUN, ALL OTHER CHARACTERS!! ZELDA'S COMING TO TOWN!

 

[Rickster]

I want to know, just out of curiosity. What is the highest any Zelda here, on the social thread, has placed in a tournament with Zelda? I have nothing to prove or gain whether you care or not. I would like to talk to some high placing Zelda's to get their thoughts.
.

This is probably my highest placing if you take into account the number of entrants and that I didn't do loser's bracket

http://tloc.challonge.com/SWP80
Shockwave 80
5/4/16 (May the fourth be with you ahaha...I'm sorry)
17th/69

Solo Zelda, did not play loser's bracket since I had to leave early.

Otherwise, my highest placing disregarding size and other factors would be a tie between these two

Ganon's Gauntlet 28
7/2/15
Offline

Used: only
5th out of 38
Bracket: http://challonge.com/Gg28

Finally found the bracket for my local. Apparently they changed accounts or something.

Ganon's Gauntlet 37
Smash 4 Singles, Double Elimination
9/3/15
3rd/19
Used

http://ganongauntlet.challonge.com/Ggsmash4

Btw all the matches were entered as 2-0 regardless if it was actually a 2-0.

 

[Katy Parry]

This is probably my highest placing if you take into account the number of entrants and that I didn't do loser's bracket

Otherwise, my highest placing disregarding size and other factors would be a tie between these two

Nice, that's respectable. so you've got some locals going. How's your Zelda typically overall recently, like your most recent PR?

What do you feel is making Zelda still bad currently? In Smash 4? In Melee?

How do you feel this translates to the new game, keeping the several new mechanics and physics changes ? Good and bad?

Do you feel and Smash 4/Melee has had an influence on Smash 5? Which moreso? Why?

I enourage everyone to answer that question.

Also, I'm 26, just to put that out there.

Oh, and upSmash in Melee is pretty good in front of her, it's frame 1. Just like a shine. Just not as useful, but it's just another trick up her sleeve she can use as a mixup, or out of shield, etc.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Besides, who are you?

Kurogane Hammer, also known as "frame data god". Legendary for his Smash knowledge. A wonderfully benevolent man, I am, owner of the frame data database for the entirety of Smash 4, and you... ask me who I am? Very interesting. Funny, even!

 

[McKnightlíght]

Kurogane Hammer, also known as "frame data god". Legendary for his Smash knowledge. A wonderfully benevolent man, I am, owner of the frame data database for the entirety of Smash 4, and you... ask me who I am? Very interesting. Funny, even!

lol shut the hell up Aero

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I gotta get my overly narcissistic fix somewhere.

 

[Rickster]

Nice, that's respectable. so you've got some locals going. How's your Zelda typically overall recently, like your most recent PR?

What do you feel is making Zelda still bad currently? In Smash 4? In Melee?

How do you feel this translates to the new game, keeping the several new mechanics and physics changes ? Good and bad?

Do you feel and Smash 4/Melee has had an influence on Smash 5? Which moreso? Why?

I enourage everyone to answer that question.

Also, I'm 26, just to put that out there.

Oh, and upSmash in Melee is pretty good in front of her, it's frame 1. Just like a shine. Just not as useful, but it's just another trick up her sleeve she can use as a mixup, or out of shield, etc.

#1: Well I don't really go to locals much anymore because of work and the long drive, so I can't really answer that. My last local was like mid 2017. Tournaments in general were a rare thing for me due to school and the lack of a license so I'd only go to 1 or 2 every other month at best. As far as PR goes I've never bothered checking.

#2: Hmm well in Smash 4 it's her lack of an answer to defensive play. The moment the opponent decides to not approach she's screwed. Heck, Diddy standing in place doing absolutely nothing (with a banana in hand) is already winning 60:40 lmao. She also has a bad disadvantage state, and is usually forced to the ledge any time she's knocked upwards. Along with that, her options off the ledge are all very risky. You essentially choose one option and hope it works. She also lacks a good airgame, which I feel like I really don't need to explain further than that lol. Those are my main issues with her.

I don't play or follow Melee much but she's basically nonfunctional. A third of her moveset just doesn't work at all, another third is either bad hitboxes, bad knockback, or bad frame data (aka bad moves). And the last third is somewhat usable moves (kicks, dsmash, dash atack). She can't relieve pressure at all, or apply pressure. She's slow af, in a game where everyone else is absurdly fast. Oh, and her recovery has no hitbox so she's literally asking to be edgehogged.

#3: For Ultimate, she seems to be much better. The Phantom adds a whole new dynamic to her playstyle, and her frame data and speed buffs are a nice touch as well. The new dash mechanics will help her tremendously, as she can now use her ground tools more effectively. The last time she could do this was Melee, but nearly all her moves suck there so...
Edgeguarding is going to be extremely strong in Ultimate, and fortunately Zelda has the tools to edgeguard and the tools to avoid being edgeguarded. It will probably be one of her greatest strengths. However, her combo game seems to have been toned down a little, but it seems like more of a universal thing (with outliers such as Bayonetta) so maybe it won't be so bad. There are two things I'm very worried about though:
1. Her disadvantage
2. Perfect Shielding
Her disadvantage is going to be bad...possibly worse than Smash 4's due to defensive options being nerfed. And the shield changes may make some of her multihits like Fsmash and Usmash extremely easy to PS. If it does turn out like that, it will be a huge shame since Fsmash has historically been one of Zelda's better spacing moves. Although I suppose Jab could act as a decent replacement...

Despite this I believe SSBU Zelda will be her best incarnation yet.

#4: I think both games had an influence. You can clearly see Smash 4 showing by the recoveries and overall game flow, but Melee also shows with the lower endlag and reworked dash mechanics. Nintendo probably wants the competitive scene to lean more towards their new games (aka the ones that actually make them money) but realize that Melee still appeals to a large portion of their playerbase. So they incorporated both games into Ultimate.

alternatively in a different timeline nintendo always wanted Smash to be mainstream competitive so they used Brawl to draw the casuals in, 4 to give them a taste of competitive, and are now going all out with Ultimate (kiddinglol)

 

[McKnightlíght]

It's the 4th! Here's to the Redneck, White trash, and Blue collar!

 

[Squii The Fish]

It's the 4th! Here's to the Redneck, White trash, and Blue collar!

Cooking on grills, drinkin alcohol, smoking and the act of buying illegal fireworks from people with names like "Grubby", "Denver Dan" and "Hey Jessie!" has been a practice performed by all working classes and ethnicity's for the last two to three decades now. Though probably not so much in major metropolitan areas and more so in suburban/rural neighborhoods I can imagine.

I'd say that while the idea is still there in some form a number of people don't really care for the historical background of the the 4th, and the focus is more about trying to make so much noise your neighbors pet gets scared from all the loud BOOMS and intoxicated hollering and runs away forever because "F*** her that's what she gets for parking behind me that one time I wanted to go to the convenience store"

But happy 4th zeldas, I hope all yer kicks are lightning crits and your pivot grabs be blessed by sick spacing.