Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Rickster]

I actually respect your opinion because you played zelda in tournament.

But even before the chat groups, the social was so hostile and belittling to anyone with a positive opinion. IE ven when he made pr.

It's just funny that almost everyone here is a wifi warrior that, at best, secondaries zelda every blue moon, but then they're all experts about what makes her good or strong, and how so and so zelda main is just in a weak region or only won under some circumstance, then try to invalidate top players opinions?

Like??? Most don't even go to tournaments let alone take zelda?? And for some I understand they live in a dead zone, but even then, most of them rarely actually main zelda.

That's why we talked like that when the Skype was originally made. We were fed up. I don't know what happened with the discord though. Never joined it.

I believe Locke took her waaaay back when I started playing. I'm not sure anyone else here takes her to tourneys in bracket?

Edit: tbh I just want to see someone say good job once in this boards life. When I joined last year we rode your **** when you went to your regional and were on stream. We were so proud of you. Nowadays though, the best you'd get is "shoulda gone xxx" or "luckily that villager didn't know how to play you"

I don't know why you guys thought I was so great after going to that tournament. I didn't even place that well really.

Anyway, the point is that MU inexperience is playing a big part in Zelda winning things. Iirc there were some Florida (Ed aka PurpleGuy's region) commentators/players or whatever posting on Twitter about how Zelda couldn't be bad since she had kill confirms and throw combos. Thing is, once they learn how to fight her, they'll just DI Dthrow>Uair and Nair>Elevator. They'll also eventually learn to effectively camp her out and force her to approach. What will Zelda do then?

It was the same story with Nairo vs Nietono. Nietono clearly didn't know the MU (I mean he dropped shield in the middle of Fsmash...) so he lost. Iirc later on in bracket he beat Nairo's Zelda and Nairo switched characters, probably because he realized he had lost the MU inexperience advantage. But that didn't matter. A Zelda had beaten a Sheik, so Zelda was "good" for a few weeks. Heck, even ZeRo's Zelda video mentioned this set.

That is why we get skeptical over good results and look at it as a "fluke". It's also why we praise certain Zeldas more than others, specifically the ones who get consistent results while at the same time competing in a hard region.

Finally, there are quite a few dedicated Zeldas here (like...using since early Brawl kind of dedicated). They just don't come out often and avoid MU threads for...reasons.

I'm sorry for blowing up on you, but I was just getting really fed up with people going " Zelda is good" because of some "new" combo that can be DI'd.

 

[Lorde]

Oh, is someone making an unfair generalization of your community?

Dejavu!

If given the chance to go back to before I posted that, I would make that post every single time, only if just to see how salty you've been for the past few days :^)

 

[KarmaCastle]

I don't know why you guys thought I was so great after going to that tournament. I didn't even place that well really.

Anyway, the point is that MU inexperience is playing a big part in Zelda winning things. Iirc there were some Florida (Ed aka PurpleGuy's region) commentators/players or whatever posting on Twitter about how Zelda couldn't be bad since she had kill confirms and throw combos. Thing is, once they learn how to fight her, they'll just DI Dthrow>Uair and Nair>Elevator. They'll also eventually learn to effectively camp her out and force her to approach. What will Zelda do then?

It was the same story with Nairo vs Nietono. Nietono clearly didn't know the MU (I mean he dropped shield in the middle of Fsmash...) so he lost. Iirc later on in bracket he beat Nairo's Zelda and Nairo switched characters, probably because he realized he had lost the MU inexperience advantage. But that didn't matter. A Zelda had beaten a Sheik, so Zelda was "good" for a few weeks. Heck, even ZeRo's Zelda video mentioned this set.

That is why we get skeptical over good results and look at it as a "fluke". It's also why we praise certain Zeldas more than others, specifically the ones who get consistent results while at the same time competing in a hard region.

Finally, there are quite a few dedicated Zeldas here (like...using since early Brawl kind of dedicated). They just don't come out often and avoid MU threads for...reasons.

I'm sorry for blowing up on you, but I was just getting really fed up with people going " Zelda is good" because of some "new" combo that can be DI'd.

Im sorry too. You're literally the one person I wanted to upset the least.

I won't yield the cloud mu tho because oregon is filthy with them (our 5.99 pay 2 win memes replace bayonetta with cloud because almost every pr player at least a pocket cloud) and I actually do well until they switch back to their primary and I get 4-0d. ;^;

Bonus points: I actually originally had "...let's just ignore the part where he says guaranteed combo throw" in the first post but opted to take it out lmao. I went around to various youtube channels that were posting videos of guaranteed combos and pointing out its actually diable and at low percents has to be a read to lkick or uair/nair because it had me so salty that people didn't know we've had this since the dawn of time and it's not even guaranteed.

 

[Lorde]

Im sorry too. You're literally the one person I wanted to upset the least.

Is the start of the next Zelda Social ship???

 

[McKnightlíght]

You see we're all on the same page, no one wants to spread misinformation.


Except me.



Don't dodge Din's Fire it hits through shield and air dodge.

 

[Macchiato]

I do think Zelda isn't good, BUT we could try being more positive. Yes, many times MU inexperience did help, but not every single time. ven's region and purple guy's (ed) region probably knows the MU and they still do well. We do have kill confirms though. Meru tested that you CANNOT escape d-throw to u-air even if you DI. There is enough time to follow the DI and u-air and depending on character and percent, you can go for a guarenteed b-air instead. not even mentioning d-tilt to u-air, falling n-air to u-smash, back hit u-tilt to u-air, d-tilt to fair at some percents. she does have a weak neutral but this patch did help giving her more tools. I'm BY NO MEANS BASHING you guys, i just think a more positive mindset doesn't hurt.

 

[Rickster]

From now on I'm going to send everyone my bad replays so you'll all realize I'm not even good

we can start with the Yoshi that beat me using only eggs and Nair

 

[Aunt Jemima]

and im kirby

 

[KarmaCastle]

From now on I'm going to send everyone my bad replays so you'll all realize I'm not even good

we can start with the Yoshi that beat me using only eggs and Nair

I hate that MU because aerial eggs are frame traps for zelda. You either eat the 6 whatever percent or air dodge into nair fair uair bair or a smash.

The nl frames made it much more bearable but fk eggs.

Can't even bother reflecting them.

 

[Lorde]

@Lavani BJN39

Just to clear this up, is anything ever guaranteed out of falling nair?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

AND I AM ISMAR

 

[BJN39]

Is the start of the next Zelda Social ship???

god no




Also the Cloud MU is literal garbage like, lol. Speaking from actual offline experience now, Zelda is absolutely shut down by a defensive limit camping Cloud.

 

[KarmaCastle]

@Lavani BJN39

Just to clear this up, is anything ever guaranteed out of falling nair?

I know I'm not them but since it's techable I think it's a no. Unless we're specifying nair not stage spiking in which case I believe it's still no cus end lag and fast fallers can shield.

Mu variances are hard.

 

[McKnightlíght]

god no




Also the Cloud MU is literal garbage like, lol. Speaking from actual offline experience now, Zelda is absolutely shut down by a defensive limit camping Cloud.

Campy cloud is my nightmare.

Me: Oh he's charging limit break? Guess I'll just kill myself.

 

[KarmaCastle]

I just let cloud get limit and accept that we can't do anything about it. If he's still being campy his projectile is trash and he has to approach us eventually.

If they like to ac dair we can easily grab him thanks to the blessed range buff.

If we can avoid getting above cloud it becomes much more doable.

What I like most about the match up is that he actually has lag on some of his moves and can be punished much more readily than, say, a super mobile zss. He's also easy to gimp (dsmash beats up b) and VERY predictable. Compared to the likes of zss (low key this is now my most hated mu in the game) it almost feels easyyy.

 

[buzzard]

I do think Zelda isn't good, BUT we could try being more positive. Yes, many times MU inexperience did help, but not every single time. ven's region and purple guy's (ed) region probably knows the MU and they still do well. We do have kill confirms though. Meru tested that you CANNOT escape d-throw to u-air even if you DI. There is enough time to follow the DI and u-air and depending on character and percent, you can go for a guarenteed b-air instead. not even mentioning d-tilt to u-air, falling n-air to u-smash, back hit u-tilt to u-air, d-tilt to fair at some percents. she does have a weak neutral but this patch did help giving her more tools. I'm BY NO MEANS BASHING you guys, i just think a more positive mindset doesn't hurt.

I recall seeing tables detailling when some of those setups are guaranteed against other characters but I don't know if there was one for each one of them.

I think it'd be great if we could research the ones we are missing. I'm willing to collaborate!

 

[BJN39]

@Lavani BJN39

Just to clear this up, is anything ever guaranteed out of falling nair?

It has varying ability.

Weight changes how much stun the WKB does. According to Lavani, Bayonetta gets 30F of hitstun from Zelda's NAir loop hits. I tested a while ago and from Bowser to Jiggs the range was like, 25-32F of hitstun.

Now, if you perfectly land exactly after a falling hit, you have a 25-19/32-19 = ~6-13 advantage (note Jiggs and M2 iirc have some KB issue from falling NAir that makes it techable...?)

Anyways it's possible to lose 1-3F of this hit advantage should you NOT land exactly after the hitframe, furthering this to ~3-10F advantage.

So the followups vary versus weight. Heavier characters take LESS hitstun. VS bowser almost nothing should be guaranteed actually, lol.

It takes 5F for a Dtilt. Do the math.

I'll make a more comprehensive post on this because this is actually really relevant info...

Also important, FW really should not be guaranteed out of FF NAir bs most characters. It sits 1F out of the general hit window. Because we've been MISGUIDED and FW 1 hits frame EIGHT, not seven. #truthteas

 

[Y2Kay]

If given the chance to go back to before I posted that, I would make that post every single time, only if just to see how salty you've been for the past few days :^)

I would too

The universe is better off with your shade spray here.

 

[McKnightlíght]

I just let cloud get limit and accept that we can't do anything about it. If he's still being campy his projectile is trash and he has to approach us eventually.

If they like to ac dair we can easily grab him thanks to the blessed range buff.

If we can avoid getting above cloud it becomes much more doable.

What I like most about the match up is that he actually has lag on some of his moves and can be punished much more readily than, say, a super mobile zss. He's also easy to gimp (dsmash beats up b) and VERY predictable. Compared to the likes of zss (low key this is now my most hated mu in the game) it almost feels easyyy.

Up B is easy to gimp without Limit, but he can pretty much get limit for free because Zelda can't approach. So that takes away our big advantage

 

[atticusfinch7]

TBH I question if Cloud really has any bad MUs at all. Everything seems at least even. I remember people used to say Fox was a good counter, but I literally saw Larry Lurr lose one game of a set to a mediocre Cloud.

 

[Deleted member]

The tea is mixed with tears.

 

[BJN39]

I just let cloud get limit and accept that we can't do anything about it. If he's still being campy his projectile is trash and he has to approach us eventually.

If they like to ac dair we can easily grab him thanks to the blessed range buff.

If we can avoid getting above cloud it becomes much more doable.

What I like most about the match up is that he actually has lag on some of his moves and can be punished much more readily than, say, a super mobile zss. He's also easy to gimp (dsmash beats up b) and VERY predictable. Compared to the likes of zss (low key this is now my most hated mu in the game) it almost feels easyyy.

If you just let Cloud get limit then gimps go out the window, and you're sitting around in fear of Limit side B which does ~30% with big range, KOs sinfully early, and is safe on shield is not point blank. It's dirty and useful at any percent.

Also lol what moves is a could using that are truly laggy? Nothing Zelda can easily punish. He can space and cross up aerials to easily avoid shield grabs or...OoS punishes, which aren't really Zelda's thing. If he's airborne, Dash attack will land inconsistently. At this point (w/limit) he can dance around Zelda waiting for her to overcommit, and then score the juggle and pretty much get us into limit KO range. NOTHING safe we have outranges his safe neutral options. Meanwhile everything he has is so rangy that he doesn't even fall into FE OOS range.

Grabbing his DAir is very situational imo, and you have to be lucky to find the right spacing consistently.

 

[Cress!]

I'm in this argument with a group of people that are saying that tiers don't exist and "a good ____ can beat ______". One of their reasons was "If ZeRo was playing Sheik against some other random Sheik ZeRo would win tiers don't exist." wtf does this even prove, that you understand common sense? So I typed up an essay debunking those false claims. Then I get 1 reply and it's "but a good dk can beat rosalina" That's because that's an even MU
I CAN'T TAKE PEOPLE SERIOUSLY ANYMORE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Lorde]

I would too

The universe is better off with your shade spray here.

This is the closest I'm ever going to get to apologizing to anyone in here, but I hope there are no hard feelings between us.

 

[Buddhahobo]

So, again, just like ven, we are going to invalidate a player and instead blame the opponent and a lack of mu experience.

Why does this board ALWAYS do this? Every God damn time.

He beat v115, Canada's best zss 2-0? Fluke. One of the best players in the world gives him props and feels zelda is underrated? Lmaoooo what an idiot, just shield.

Fairess didn't do anything. Just a one time thing. Got lucky. Anyone could do that.

Why is it so hard for this board to say something positive. "Wow good job fairess!" "How'd he beat zss, I wanna know." "Damn, I gotta practice and get on his level" "Even mr r feels she's underrated!"

But no. It's always "mu inexperience."

Hey, no generalizing everyone on the board.

I think Fairess did superbly.

Obviously the prayers he asked for worked, especially with that sweet spot back air.

*ahem*

Oh lordess of sass, may you smirk down fondly on this gorl who seeks to play Super Smash Brothers in your image.

May your sweet spots be made all the sweeter and your sour spots be as nonexistent as Link's libido.

May your attacks sparkle like a starry night's sky and blot out the sun, blinding the unworthy and leading to victory.

Look not towards the false prophet, cloaked in assassin's cloth and teenage angst and our lordess's deviantart OC past, but to the true embodiment of our Lordess in mortal flesh, Queen of both Pirates and Sass.

As a wise woman once said in Sassodus 4:20 "If you liked it then you should've put a ring on it, Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh".

Amen.

I CAN'T TAKE PEOPLE SERIOUSLY ANYMORE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I know the feeling, gorl.

Though in my experience, at some point you've got to look around you and figure out if it's people in general, or just the ones you typically find yourself surrounded by.

 

[Y2Kay]

This is the closest I'm ever going to get to apologizing to anyone in here, but I hope there are no hard feelings between us.

I'll take it!

 

[Rickster]

Lorde Your defrosting ice queen is showing

 

[Lorde]

Also I hate all of you

 

[McKnightlíght]

Also I hate all of you

You forgot to say baka

 

[Buddhahobo]

Also I hate all of you

You forgot to say baka

Hold on, let me put on my spectacles and check the sliding scale of dere to make sure:

 

[Y2Kay]

Also I hate all of you

We hate you too bby

 

[Cress!]

Then I get 1 reply and it's "but a good dk can beat rosalina"

Now this guy is saying skill doesn't matter but tiers don't matter either...
So... the color of your outfit is what determines wins?

 

[Virtue]

Now this guy is saying skill doesn't matter but tiers don't matter either...
So... the color of your outfit is what determines wins?

That's probably why I always lose. I use default Zelda.

 

[Buddhahobo]

Now this guy is saying skill doesn't matter but tiers don't matter either...
So... the color of your outfit is what determines wins?

Product Placement, obviously.

Stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and mention it in interview? +10 points

Drinking BrainGear predominantly on stream? +72 points

Etc.

Scar's got to pay the bills somehow.

Where's this conversation happening? Sounds lolworthy.

 

[Cress!]

Where's this conversation happening? Sounds lolworthy.

http://www.belltreeforums.com/showthread.php?365287-Smash-Bros-Is-Annoying-Me/page3
Lorde and @Antonykun are also on this website, maybe they can spread some shade and swordspider logic on that thread.

 

[Y2Kay]

http://www.belltreeforums.com/showthread.php?365287-Smash-Bros-Is-Annoying-Me/page3
Lorde and @Antonykun are also on this website, maybe they can spread some shade and swordspider logic on that thread.

we about to go to war with you gorl

 

[Buddhahobo]

http://www.belltreeforums.com/showthread.php?365287-Smash-Bros-Is-Annoying-Me/page3
Lorde and @Antonykun are also on this website, maybe they can spread some shade and swordspider logic on that thread.

tiers barely matter certain characters have certain aspects of them that are better than others but you can still beat rosalina as dk if you make better reads etc.

help me I'm dying rofl what the **** is this ****?

no i didnt read your post

THEN WHY ARE YOU POSTING?

EDIT: WHY DID YOU QUOTE HIS POST IF YOU DIDN'T READ IT?

God, this would be an Animal Crossing themed forum, wouldn't it? Half the people in that thread seem just as bright as your typical Animal Crossing Resident.

 

[EODM07]

Welp. I finished KonoSuba.

My thoughts on the show?

Spoiler

I REALLY liked this show, it was funny, self aware and had some really enjoyable characters.
Kazuma (Yes, I'm Kazuma.) being the straight man in most of the situations and such a joy to watch made the show for me. Megumin while many say she is best, I have to be on the fence with. I love her personality and that she solely relies on one magic spell and that it is all part of her, she feels like that one huge idiot who is obsessed with one thing and will stick with it till the end.

Aqua is a total pain and I like it, yes she's supposed to be annoying, and it makes it more enjoyable; because she ruins everything that happens, or she sets up for some stupid ploy she has.

Darkness is basically a masochist, don't really have much to say about her; she isn't really that developed as a character, other than despite being a Crusader who follows a strict code and is a masochist. All we know about her is that she is kind and friendly to her allies.

...Did I mention everyone in the party is an idiot? Everyone in the group is a huge idiot, but that's what makes the show shine for me. The chemistry between them all is great and fun, all playing off their own jokes/puns/scenarios for a great punchline.

Animation is a bit iffy, but I see it as a positive that adds to the show's humour; when compared to other MMO/Fantasy Shows like Netoge or S1 of Log Horizon, you can see a HUGE difference in quality of the animation. And you can see the animation team was having a blast with this as well. Plus S2 announced a while ago as well, so I'm looking forward to this. Getting my hopes up for more good humour.

Also, I like the music; while it is kind of forgettable, I do like the OP and ED. OP is just really catchy and upbeat, whereas the ED is very peaceful and tranquil which I love. <3

Really liked this show. Hoping that it gets better in S2, and I'd recommend it. Just be warned that it does have some fanservice, so just warning you all about that.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm hungry.

Fairess did great

But Zelda is still the worst character in the game.

@GunbladeSWR Lucas's standing grab LITERALLY has less end lag than her dash grab and is only 1 frame slower. AND HE HAS GOOD THROWS.

— Kurogane Hammer (@KuroganeHammer) April 30, 2016

 

[Buddhahobo]

Welp. I finished KonoSuba.

My thoughts on the show?

I recently finished Overlord and Yatterman Night.

I'd recommend the first one; it was a lot less like Sword Art Online or .Hack/Sign and a lot more like something cut from the same cloth as Slayers despite it's initial premise, especially when one adds the webepisodes to it.

The second one had some problems and I had Yatterman nostalgia helping me through it. Wasn't bad, but there was definitely pacing issues, though I understand what they were going for from the first half plot to the second half plot. Great OP though, you could always just watch that. In terms of Tatsunoko IPs being given a post- apocalyptic reboot, I'd rate YN a solid "Better than Casshern Sins". Honestly wish I could see what happens next, as slow as it got in the third quarter (was only 12 episodes).

Dropped a show about Lesbian bears invading Japan, and next in the queue seems to be a show about orgasmic food. If nothing else, it has to be better than the US version of Kitchen Nightmares.