Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Latte]

When I see people who vote for Wolf to come back, I just silently shake my head at them in disdain. We do not need 3 characters with near-identical movesets. I'd take anyone over another clone.

 

[Lavani]

Smash community is all

"Sakurai we're SICK of clones!"
"...but not these clones."

 

[SBphiloz4]

Link the vid sis

Here you go.

The GIF was playing slower (cuz mobile) so as soon as Link threw the boomerang I was going "no, no, no, NO, NOOOO-"

Tbh when you can tell a GIF has Zelda and Link in it, when is it not because Zelda is about to get pushed off while using din's?

Anything with Link and boomerang usually smells trouble.

If it's vs, assume an epic Warlock Punch with the Gale Boomerang pushing him right into Link.

If it's vs, assume something happens to Zelda with that boomerang (lol)

If it's vs , assume it's a For Glory match and stop watching it because they'll be rolling around the stage like it's Terminal Field.

 

[warionumbah2]

When I see people who vote for Wolf to come back, I just silently shake my head at them in disdain. We do not need 3 characters with near-identical movesets. I'd take anyone over another clone.

Shake your head against a cactus cuz i vote for Wolf with a mother****ing smile on my face. Talk to me.

Smash community is all

"Sakurai we're SICK of clones!"
"...but not these clones."

Nah we are a bunch of whiny pricks, we complain about everything.

 

[Baskerville]

So I was watching a video that @Rizen posted of his match against @Macchiato.

Then this happened.

It keeps stopping and going for me, but the moment I saw that Boomerang come back I'm like "Oh ****!"

 

[Spirst]

Smash community is all

"Sakurai we're SICK of clones!"
"...but not these clones."

"Ugh, clones and semi-clones are such a waste of space. They could've used that time to make original characters instead"
*LUCAS COMES OUT OF NOWHERE*
"OH MY GOD LUCAS HYPE EVERYONE!!!!"

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I'd take anyone over another clone.

Would you take Mewtwo over a clone?

 

[PUK]

Actually Lucas doesn't seem to be really similar to ness. Not like Mario and Doc are.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Smash community is all

"Sakurai we're SICK of clones!"
"...but not these clones."

We just care about clones we played previously. I'm sure people would be hype for Young Link. I'm sure people were for Doctor Mario "because FLUDD sucks".

 

[Lorde]

Here's all of Mewtwo's palettes that we've seen so far, in case anyone missed them or something.

I love the sea foam one and I'll probably be using it all the time.

 

[Ffamran]

When I see people who vote for Wolf to come back, I just silently shake my head at them in disdain. We do not need 3 characters with near-identical movesets. I'd take anyone over another clone.

Wolf's normals, 12 moves total, and his 4 throws were different compared to Fox and Falco's while his Specials are a bit more like Ike's being different than Marth's except for the difference between Quickdraw and Dancing Blade. That's 11 moves out of 27; Wolf only shared Specials - Blaster and Wolf Flash can be argued -, grab, pummel, ledge and get up attacks (4 moves total here); and a Final Smash. I don't know Lucas well, but I know he shared Specials and a Side Smash with Ness. That's only 5 moves out of 27. Ike shared Specials except for Quickdraw and Aether can be argued with Marth which is 3 or 2 moves out of 27. That's it, but there are people who still think he's a Marth/Roy clone. I'm not freaking kidding.

To this day, Falco still shares 3 Specials, Down Smash, Dair, Dtilt, Ftilt - it's Melee Fox's Ftilt -, grab, 4 throws, pummel, ledge and get up attacks; and a Final Smash. That's 18 out of 27 moves excluding customs. Ganondorf? Jab, Ftilt, Dtilt, Utilt, Fair, Up Smash, Flame Choke (arguable), and his Final Smash are his only unique moves. That leaves 19 moves excluding customs still shared with Captain Falcon. Luigi shares 3 Specials, 3 aerials, 2 Smashes, Ftilt, grab, pummel, 3 throws, and I think he shares ledge and get up attacks with Mario. That's 14 out of 27. Should we go into animations? 'Cause Falco's air dodge, spot dodge, roll, grabbed animation, tech getup and rolls are the same and still the same as Fox's. Wolf too, but that's still less total shared with Fox and Falco.

I'd say Wolf and Lucas are on a better track than Falco, Ganondorf, and Luigi who can be argued because he's Mario's little, twin bro, but Falco and Ganondorf? Come the frick on. Give Falco a more brawler fighting style like the wannabe gangster he is and give Ganondorf Dead Man's Volley and attacks like maybe a "grounded" version of Fair that works like Charizard's Down Smash for his Down Smash, make his Side Smash use his sword like a heavy slash, do something to make the King of Evil not be Captain Falcon's old man.

 

[Brinzy]

When I see people who vote for Wolf to come back, I just silently shake my head at them in disdain. We do not need 3 characters with near-identical movesets. I'd take anyone over another clone.

The bigger reason they shouldn't be voting for Wolf is because there's a strong chance he's gonna come back anyway.

 

[HeroMystic]

So gotta ask this.

Do you guys think Zelda will get buffed with the patch? If so, by how much?

 

[Lavani]

So gotta ask this.

Do you guys think Zelda will get buffed with the patch? If so, by how much?

You're a day late.

 

[TTTTTsd]

0.5% more on the Utilt to make it 1% more

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Here's all of Mewtwo's palettes that we've seen so far, in case anyone missed them or something.

I love the sea foam one and I'll probably be using it all the time.

Basically, we have Melee's palette swap + a pseudo Dark Lugia. I like it.

So gotta ask this.

Do you guys think Zelda will get buffed with the patch? If so, by how much?

Not buffed. Fixed.

Seriously, if they JUST fix her Forward and Up smash, I'll be happy.

 

[Brinzy]

You're a day late.

and a Lightning Kick short.

I guess I will write up my thoughts on what I'd want to see...

 

[Latte]

Smash community is all

"Sakurai we're SICK of clones!"
"...but not these clones."

I'd love to replace all clones with newcomers if I could. Luigi (I'm actually not sure if Luigi is a clone, oops.), Toon Link, Lucina, Lucas, Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Falco, and is Mewtwo a clone? I can't remember. Lucas is the only clone I actually like, but I'd still replace him with a newcomer if it was possible.

Newcomers are just so much more interesting, IMO.

"Ugh, clones and semi-clones are such a waste of space. They could've used that time to make original characters instead"
*LUCAS COMES OUT OF NOWHERE*
"OH MY GOD LUCAS HYPE EVERYONE!!!!"

I was originally very happy that he was coming back, and I am still somewhat happy he's coming. Though when I think about how they could have spent their time making a newcomer rather than Lucas, my happiness for him rejoining the roster kind of dampens.

I was caught up in the Nintendo Direct hype, mayn


That said, I'm happy that any characters are joining the roster. My main gripe with Wolf in particular is that he'd be the second clone of Fox, meaning there would be three characters with near-identical movesets. That seems excessive.

 

[HeroMystic]

You're a day late.

But you're asking me to wade through all the Shaq posts.

 

[Ffamran]

So gotta ask this.

Do you guys think Zelda will get buffed with the patch? If so, by how much?

Her overall moveset will be buffed by 0.7%.

That said, I'm happy that any characters are joining the roster. My main gripe with Wolf in particular is that he'd be the second clone of Fox, meaning there would be three characters with near-identical movesets. That seems excessive.

How is Wolf a clone of Fox?! That's like saying Iori Yagami is a clone of Kyo Kusanagi when Iori fights with claw-based martial arts and Kyo fights with kempo. The only thing they share are fire moves, which once again, Iori I believe uses them for close combat while Kyo uses them for ranged and kicks! @CyberHyperPhoenix knows more.

 

[TTTTTsd]

The minute you said "I would replace Dr. Mario" is when I unfortunately gave the evil glare. My apologies sir, but my childhood of puzzle games and endless amazing road trips with Dr. Mario shout loudly in my mind.

Also all of Wolf's A moves are entirely different from Fox and his B moves are baseline super different. Identical my rear.

Iori uses Fire for DP and projectile, + explosion. Kyo uses it a LOT more frequently. Iori is more about claws and brutal melee....despite hating violence (wut)

 

[SBphiloz4]

So gotta ask this.

Do you guys think Zelda will get buffed with the patch? If so, by how much?

 

[Lorde]

and is Mewtwo a clone? I can't remember.

Mewtwo is a clone in the literal sense of the word: he's a man-made clone of Mew. As for his Smash moveset, no, he's not a clone.

Basically, we have Melee's palette swap + a pseudo Dark Lugia. I like it.

There's still another 3 that we haven't seen, so I'm hoping that they're fantastic. I'd be surprised if we didn't get a pink Mewtwo palette to reference Mew.

 

[Baskerville]

They should definitely replace Smash Dorf with Hyrule Warriors Dorf.
Can't go wrong with that hair.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

There's still another 3 that we haven't seen, so I'm hoping that they're fantastic. I'd be surprised if we didn't get a pink Mewtwo palette to reference Mew.

Wouldn't surprise me either. But yeah, 3 to go, and they can only be new colors!

 

[Latte]

Wolf's normals, 12 move total, and his 4 throws were different compared to Fox and Falco's while his Specials are a bit more like Ike's being different than Marth's except for the difference between Quickdraw and Dancing Blade. That's 11 moves out of 27; Wolf only shared Specials - Blaster and Wolf Flash can be argued -, grab, pummel, ledge and get up attacks (4 moves total here); and a Final Smash. I don't know Lucas well, but I know he shared Specials and a Side Smash with Ness. That's only 5 moves out of 27. Ike shared Specials except for Quickdraw and Aether can be argued with Marth which is 3 or 2 moves out of 27. That's it, but there are people who still think he's a Marth/Roy clone. I'm not freaking kidding.

To this day, Falco still shares 3 Specials, Down Smash, Dair, Dtilt, Ftilt - it's Melee Fox's Ftilt -, grab, 4 throws, pummel, ledge and get up attacks; and a Final Smash. That's 18 out of 27 moves excluding customs. Ganondorf? Jab, Ftilt, Dtilt, Utilt, Fair, Up Smash, Flame Choke (arguable), and his Final Smash are his only unique moves. That leaves 19 moves excluding customs still shared with Captain Falcon. Luigi shares 3 Specials, 3 aerials, 2 Smashes, Ftilt, grab, pummel, 3 throws, and I think he shares ledge and get up attacks with Mario. That's 14 out of 27. Should we go into animations? 'Cause Falco's air dodge, spot dodge, roll, grabbed animation, tech getup and rolls are the same and still the same as Fox's. Wolf too, but that's still less total shared with Fox and Falco.

I'd say Wolf and Lucas are on a better track than Falco, Ganondorf, and Luigi who can be argued because he's Mario's little, twin bro, but Falco and Ganondorf? Come the frick on. Give Falco a more brawler fighting style like the wannabe gangster he is and give Ganondorf Dead Man's Volley and attacks like maybe a "grounded" version of Fair that works like Charizard's Down Smash for his Down Smash, make his Side Smash use his sword like a heavy slash, do something to make the King of Evil not be Captain Falcon's old man.

I'd love if the clones who share very few moves with their original were revamped and made completely unique. Reusing moves seems extremely lazy, and it makes the characters uninteresting, IMO.

I can understand people wanting clones back, but I'll be disappointed if a second clone of Fox makes it back when we have the chance to submit newcomer ideas to Nintendo for the first time.

 

[Soul.]

VOTE FOR RIDLEY GUYS. WE NEED MORE VILLAINS. SMASH ISN'T ABOUT SONIC HEROES.

 

[HeroMystic]

They should definitely replace Smash Dorf with Hyrule Warriors Dorf.
Can't go wrong with that hair.

Actually, I would really enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWt_yw4mpqc

Everything about him in HW just screams everything Ganondorf wants to be in Smash.

 

[Lavani]

Legitimate changes I'd like to see for Zelda:

- Phantom charge can be held. Phantom blind spot fixed.
- Din's doesn't put her in helpless
- Fsmash/usmash link properly
- Lightning Kick sourspots made safe on hit (ideally via BKB increase), damage increased to 6%
- Nair landing lag reduced significantly (a move like that should not have 20+ frames of landing lag)

 

[OmegaSorin]

Actually, I would really enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWt_yw4mpqc

Everything about him in HW just screams everything Ganondorf wants to be in Smash.

GANONDORF - Breaks the Timeline!

 

[Baskerville]

Actually, I would really enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWt_yw4mpqc

Everything about him in HW just screams everything Ganondorf wants to be in Smash.

God the moves at 0:30 and 0:46 are sooo good.

 

[Furret]

So gotta ask this.

Do you guys think Zelda will get buffed with the patch? If so, by how much?

I don't think we will see any buffs

They should definitely replace Smash Dorf with wind waker Dorf.
Can't go wrong with that hair.

edit because cross overs are lame

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Legitimate changes I'd like to see for Zelda:

- Phantom charge can be held. Phantom blind spot fixed.
- Din's doesn't put her in helpless
- Fsmash/usmash link properly
- Lightning Kick sourspots made safe on hit (ideally via BKB increase), damage increased to 6%
- Nair landing lag reduced significantly (a move like that should not have 20+ frames of landing lag)

OMG YOU FIXED ZELDA!

Now we just need Sakurai to fix her... :^(

 

[OmegaSorin]

I don't think we will see any buffs

edit because cross overs are lame

There was a cross over?

 

[Ffamran]

They should definitely replace Smash Dorf with Hyrule Warriors Dorf.
Can't go wrong with that hair.

Moveset-wise, he'd make Shulk's Monado look like a shortsword. Ganondorf is 7' 6 and 1/2" tall or 230cm. He's taller than Snake by like a foot and a half which is more than a head tall. I don't think he's that tall in SSB and he's probably taller in Hyrule Warriors, but give him a knife and he already outranges Marth, give him a sword and he outranges Ike, and give him a greatsword? Yeah, that man is a beast.

The thing is that Melee defined Falco, Ganondorf, and Zelda which means unless the developers stop giving ***** about veteran fans, Falco, Ganondorf, and Zelda will be stuck like this. The more I looked into Falco's history, the more I wanted him to fight with wild haymakers, strong, but unrefined kicks, headbutts, and just be like a wild brawler like Miguel in Tekken. Here's Miguel's movelist in Tekken Tag 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey-5BvenoSI. Or something like DmC Dante's Eryx moveset where it's just wild haymakers and dunks. Unfortunately, that'll probably never happen. The only thing that would have to really change with Falco are the moves I mentioned except for maybe his throws, but F-throw being a headbutt would be pretty nasty.

I mentioned before, but I think Zelda should been introduced in Brawl using a rapier or a different moveset while Sheik could have been passed off as Zelda fighting in disguise which she is...

I'd love if the clones who share very few moves with their original were revamped and made completely unique. Reusing moves seems extremely lazy, and it makes the characters uninteresting, IMO.

I can understand people wanting clones back, but I'll be disappointed if a second clone of Fox makes it back when we have the chance to submit newcomer ideas to Nintendo for the first time.

But Wolf's not a clone of Fox! And he only shared Specials... Whatever...

Anyway, Ganondorf hair commercial.

 

[Brinzy]

Things I'd really like to see but it'll never happen:

- Give her a new fair or rework her current one to basically have melee properties - weaker but easier to hit sweetspot, significantly stronger sourspot so you don't get punished at like 50% for it. The fact that bair is literally better in every way (except range? maybe???) is just sad.

- Let us store phantom, or let us summon phantom and put it away when we don't need it. Both of these would make for much more engaging (and more useful) applications of the ability.

Things I can see them doing but wouldn't make Zelda that much better:

- Brawl uair
- Brawl nair - or at least cut the lag on nair significantly when landing. There's no reason it should lag as hard as it does.
- higher knockback on Dsmash
- Letting Din's hit in its actual visual
- Brawl Usmash (more unlikely however)
- Let B-throw kill like 20% earlier. It doesn't need to be Ness's B-throw, but it should feel threatening to be grabbed by her at 130%.

Things that they better do:

- Get rid of Din's freefall. There is absolutely no reason this ability should cause freefall. It's the only ability in the game that I can think of in 5 seconds that does not help with recovery and sends you into freefall. What, do they think we're gonna ledgecamp with Din's or something?

- FIX CHARACTERS FALLING OUT OF FSMASH PLEASE. It's one thing to actually put in a lot of effort to DI out of it. It's an entirely different thing to just have an attack that will never connect on an airborne opponent. Usmash also suffers from this but has a few other factors that are bigger issues, like how it's basically the worst smash attack in the game.

Honestly I would give up Farore's being a kill move for like half of this stuff to happen. I would allow Nintendo to force me into Farore's Windfall if we got all of these changes. Please Nintendo treat your princess like a princess.

Legitimate changes I'd like to see for Zelda:

- Phantom charge can be held. Phantom blind spot fixed.
- Din's doesn't put her in helpless
- Fsmash/usmash link properly
- Lightning Kick sourspots made safe on hit (ideally via BKB increase), damage increased to 6%
- Nair landing lag reduced significantly (a move like that should not have 20+ frames of landing lag)

LOL as I was writing mine you posted this.

Spot on.

 

[Latte]

Mewtwo is a clone in the literal sense of the word: he's a man-made clone of Mew. As for his Smash moveset, no, he's not a clone.

Thanks, it's been years since I last played Melee. I remember when I first played Brawl I thought that Lucario was a Mewtwo clone, but that's probably because I hardly spent any time with either of the characters.

How is Wolf a clone of Fox?!CyberHyperPhoenix knows more.

But Wolf's not a clone of Fox! And he only shared Specials... Whatever.

When I look at clones, the first thing that I notice is the shared specials. Specials are, in my eyes, the most important part of creating a unique fighter. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

I'm not trying to be ignorant here, I do know that he's different from Fox in many ways. Perhaps I'm just too caught up on his specials to see how unique of a fighter he really is.

 

[Baskerville]

Moveset-wise, he'd make Shulk's Monado look like a shortsword. Ganondorf is 7' 6 and 1/2" tall or 230cm. He's taller than Snake by like a foot and a half which is more than a head tall. I don't think he's that tall in SSB and he's probably taller in Hyrule Warriors, but give him a knife and he already outranges Marth, give him a sword and he outranges Ike, and give him a greatsword? Yeah, that man is a beast.

The thing is that Melee defined Falco, Ganondorf, and Zelda which means unless the developers stop giving ***** about veteran fans, Falco, Ganondorf, and Zelda will be stuck like this. The more I looked into Falco's history, the more I wanted him to fight with wild haymakers, strong, but unrefined kicks, headbutts, and just be like a wild brawler like Miguel in Tekken. Here's Miguel's movelist in Tekken Tag 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey-5BvenoSI. Or something like DmC Dante's Eryx moveset where it's just wild haymakers and dunks. Unfortunately, that'll probably never happen. The only thing that would have to really change with Falco are the moves I mentioned except for maybe his throws, but F-throw being a headbutt would be pretty nasty.

I mentioned before, but I think Zelda should been introduced in Brawl using a rapier or a different moveset while Sheik could have been passed off as Zelda fighting in disguise which she is...


But Wolf's not a clone of Fox! And he only shared Specials... Whatever...

Anyway, Ganondorf hair commercial.

Glad I'm not the only one who would've liked to see Zelda with a rapier. Maybe she could take some inspiration from Mitsuru...

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

The one thing I really want to see Zelda with is Light Arrows

You know Sakurai, it is kind of the main weapon she uses in every Zelda game... a final smash doesn't cut it. If she could use the Goddess' spells and Light Arrows, she'd be really unique

 

[Brinzy]

The one thing I really want to see Zelda with is Light Arrows

You know Sakurai, it is kind of the main weapon she uses in every Zelda game... a final smash doesn't cut it. If she could use the Goddess' spells and Light Arrows, she'd be really unique

I bet using Light Arrows would do 1% to her just like Pichu's Thundershock.

But unlike Pichu's Thundershock, it would also put her in freefall.