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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Kofu

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
4,609
Location
The caffeine-free state
NNID
Atoyont
3DS FC
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Metroid and Kid Icarus were designed by the same man, their games would be similar because of that.

Metroid is more of an adventure series than anything, I've heard Prime described as a "first-person adventure."
 

Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
19,659
Damn I should go back to playing OU again.
But Smogon is so lazy that there aren't many teambuilding threads.
 

Locke 06

Sayonara, bye bye~
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
2,725
Location
Grad School
NNID
tl.206
Went bowling tonight. Scores were 176, 222, 168. Not bad I guess, I wish I were more consistent at everything though. I'm always either great or awful with no inbetween.
IS NOBODY ELSE IMPRESSED AT THESE BOWLING SCORES?

#highscore170's

Edit: Filling out my March Madness bracket. Anyone have any Cinderella's this year?
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
I like how Falco's completely vulnerable with his default recoveries. Falco Phantasm has no hitbox at the end and its end lag I think is actually worse that Fox Illusion short hopped or not. Anyway, Falco can be caught immediately with any attack when he's using Phantasm to recover. So, just wait at the ledge and time any hit and boom, Falco's stuck off stage. Fire Bird like Fire Fox already has the charging issue, but let's add that it travels less than Fire Fox and the fact it won't sweet-spot the ledge if you're too close meaning like the Pits' Power of Flight, he'll travel until the move ends into the ledge. It'll sweet-spot up and I think (diagonally) down regularly... Yeah, personally, there's no reason not to use Fast Fire Bird since the raw speed is enough to justify Falco's crappier recovery. Well, I'll have to practice that "Melee angle" Fire Bird TKBreezy kept mentioning which sucks with the Circle Pad; I already abuse FD/Omega stages with slopes and being dependent on Falco Phantasm and using Fire Bird for vertical recoveries isn't exactly a good idea.

Oh, and apparently, you can catch ZSS's Flip Jump, but you really need to precise and lucky as hell.
 

S.F.L.R_9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,355
Location
Las Vegas it's hot yall help
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suffler9
3DS FC
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Falco Phantasm has no hitbox at the end and its end lag I think is actually worse that Fox Illusion short hopped or not.

Fire Bird like Fire Fox already has the charging issue, but let's add that it travels less than Fire Fox and the fact it won't sweet-spot the ledge if you're too close meaning like the Pits' Power of Flight, he'll travel until the move ends into the ledge.
What
...Really

It's not even like Falco is stronger than Fox which merits him having a worse recovery. He's weaker and has a worse recovery than Fox? What's the point of that?
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Though better ZSS players will mix it up, I just always assume they're going to flip jump and adjust my edgeguards accordingly.

Speaking of intercepting ZSS' recovery, I still have this FG highlight from October:

 
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Fernosaur

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
1,923
Location
Mexico
NNID
Fernosaur
Though better ZSS players will mix it up, I just always assume they're going to flip jump and adjust my edgeguards accordingly.

Speaking of intercepting ZSS' recovery, I still have this FG highlight from October:

Omg the maximum douche XD
 

FullMoon

i'm just joking with you
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
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Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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INFullMoon
Today I decided to just go into training mode and look at the animation for characters. It's kinda interesting that if you stop at the right frames you can see the inside of Greninja's mouth during Up-Smash and so you can see exactly how the tongue-scarf begins.

It's a very minor thing but it's a nice attention to detail no less. The animations in this game are so fun too look at. I just noticed that Luigi looks really stoned when he uses Green Missile.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
What
...Really

It's not even like Falco is stronger than Fox which merits him having a worse recovery. He's weaker and has a worse recovery than Fox? What's the point of that?
Have you played Melee? Falco's recovery was bad, but that didn't matter since he didn't need to recover for the most part. It was mostly beat up everyone before they can get you off stage. Not to mention how the game worked and that Falco's Blaster was good in that game along with having a fast Dash Attack and two sex kicks to work with while in SSB4: no sex kicks.

WARNING: RANT AHEAD!
Fox's Fire Fox travels a little over half of FD; Falco's Fire Bird travels about a 2/3's. With customs Distant Fire Bird travels half - the same as Falco Phantasm - and Fast Fire Bird when slid travel the same as Fire Bird because of momentum, but when rolled - basically you're forcing the momentum to go away on the ground -, it travels less than Fire Bird. In the air, I think it travels less even though Falco does get momentum out of it and "somersaults" or rather, rolls into a free fall like a paratrooper. It think it's because Falco's jump is the best by default, but then you think of this: Luigi's jump is also good, but he has multiple ways to recover that make him dangerous, especially if he gets a misfire and he hits you. Falco gets none of that. Distant Fire Bird travels slower and charges slower - maybe slower than Fox's default Fire Fox - which for me, make it not worth it since Falco can still get gimped with it while Fox can be below the screen and make it back with Fire Fox.

There was no reason for Falco to not have a hitbox at the end of Falco Phantasm and there was no reason for him to lose a front hitbox on his Bair and have Wolf's Bair instead of his own. At disadvantage, Nair's unreliable and pretty much useless for him to try and get out of disadvantage. Meanwhile, Sheik has Nair, Bair, and I think Fair to get out, not to mention maybe Bouncing Fish and Vanish. Falco's way of getting out is either dying to start with a fresh stock or someone screwing up their follow ups.

Ganondorf has a better recovery even by default because he's so dangerous to challenge. If you screw up, Flame Choke slam or a Dark Dive that can and will ledge spike you not to mention that the uppercut is disjointed. Should I mention that he hits like a speeding train? Now, let's add in customs. Yeah, his recovery is probably better than Falco and Captain Falcon's. Ganondorf's not even supposed to be off stage like that. Have you seen the video where he jumps off the ledge, Wizard's Dropkick to the other side and gets back to the ledge with Dark Fists?

Oh, but Falco's second jump. Screw you. Falco's second jump is crap compared to Yoshi's second jump or Shulk's Jump Art second jump which I should mention that Shulk's Air Slash gains height and I think Shulk's air speed gets better with Jump Art. We're talking about a bird that moves slower than a tank in the air. He's a bird not a damned rabbit. If Peppy or Slippy was in the game instead of Falco and had the best jumps, then I wouldn't care since it makes sense. Falco's a pheasant and last I checked, pheasants can't jump like that. :glare:

SSB4 is probably the most balanced, official game to date, but there are design choices that I question like Lucina's lack of tippers and being weaker than Marth despite having consistent damage, Dark Pit just being a straight up clone who plays almost identically to Pit while Lucina, (Fire Emblem) Roy, Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Young Link, Falco, etc. all played different as clones not to mention slightly changing one move's damage, removing a tipper on his Ftilt... How about the Koopalings? Yeah, make them even less unique! Falco having Wolf's Bair, a Blaster that's "functional", Jabs not connecting properly, Rosalina's range and Luma's raw power, Diddy's stretchy limbs, two freaking, powerful projectiles for Villager, Toon Link not using any of the other Zelda item, and as everyone knows: Zelda's entire design which was FUBAR'd since Melee. Oh, it looks cool and it's powerful, but it's just so clunky and it just doesn't work as well as Ganondorf who is a defensive character who can be defensive or Rosalina, Pac-Man, Villager, etc.
 
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Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
19,659
Thunder Jolt doesn't seem to do anything to Sonic when he uses Spin Dash.
lol. Thunder Wave here we go.
 

Furret

Long Body Pokémon
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
3,477
Location
MO
Have you played Melee? Falco's recovery was bad, but that didn't matter since he didn't need to recover for the most part. It was mostly beat up everyone before they can get you off stage. Not to mention how the game worked and that Falco's Blaster was good in that game along with having a fast Dash Attack and two sex kicks to work with while in SSB4: no sex kicks.

WARNING: RANT AHEAD!
Fox's Fire Fox travels a little over half of FD; Falco's Fire Bird travels about a 2/3's. With customs Distant Fire Bird travels half - the same as Falco Phantasm - and Fast Fire Bird when slid travel the same as Fire Bird because of momentum, but when rolled - basically you're forcing the momentum to go away on the ground -, it travels less than Fire Bird. In the air, I think it travels less even though Falco does get momentum out of it and "somersaults" or rather, rolls into a free fall like a paratrooper. It think it's because Falco's jump is the best by default, but then you think of this: Luigi's jump is also good, but he has multiple ways to recover that make him dangerous, especially if he gets a misfire and he hits you. Falco gets none of that. Distant Fire Bird travels slower and charges slower - maybe slower than Fox's default Fire Fox - which for me, make it not worth it since Falco can still get gimped with it while Fox can be below the screen and make it back with Fire Fox.

There was no reason for Falco to not have a hitbox at the end of Falco Phantasm and there was no reason for him to lose a front hitbox on his Bair and have Wolf's Bair instead of his own. At disadvantage, Nair's unreliable and pretty much useless for him to try and get out of disadvantage. Meanwhile, Sheik has Nair, Bair, and I think Fair to get out, not to mention maybe Bouncing Fish and Vanish. Falco's way of getting out is either dying to start with a fresh stock or someone screwing up their follow ups.

Ganondorf has a better recovery even by default because he's so dangerous to challenge. If you screw up, Flame Choke slam or a Dark Dive that can and will ledge spike you not to mention that the uppercut is disjointed. Should I mention that he hits like a speeding train? Now, let's add in customs. Yeah, his recovery is probably better than Falco and Captain Falcon's. Ganondorf's not even supposed to be off stage like that. Have you seen the video where he jumps off the ledge, Wizard's Dropkick to the other side and gets back to the ledge with Dark Fists?

Oh, but Falco's second jump. Screw you. Falco's second jump is crap compared to Yoshi's second jump or Shulk's Jump Art second jump which I should mention that Shulk's Air Slash gains height and I think Shulk's air speed gets better with Jump Art. We're talking about a bird that moves slower than a tank in the air. He's a bird not a damned rabbit. If Peppy or Slippy was in the game instead of Falco and had the best jumps, then I wouldn't care since it makes sense. Falco's a pheasant and last I checked, pheasants can't jump like that. :glare:

SSB4 is probably the most balanced, official game to date, but there are design choices that I question like Lucina's lack of tippers and being weaker than Marth despite having consistent damage, Dark Pit just being a straight up clone who plays almost identically to Pit while Lucina, (Fire Emblem) Roy, Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Young Link, Falco, etc. all played different as clones not to mention slightly changing one move's damage, removing a tipper on his Ftilt... How about the Koopalings? Yeah, make them even less unique! Falco having Wolf's Bair, a Blaster that's "functional", Jabs not connecting properly, Rosalina's range and Luma's raw power, Diddy's stretchy limbs, two freaking, powerful projectiles for Villager, Toon Link not using any of the other Zelda item, and as everyone knows: Zelda's entire design which was FUBAR'd since Melee. Oh, it looks cool and it's powerful, but it's just so clunky and it just doesn't work as well as Ganondorf who is a defensive character who can be defensive or Rosalina, Pac-Man, Villager, etc.
I gonna give a TL DR with out reading and hope Im spot on
 

jahkzheng

Smash Lord
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,653
Location
Northern California
Mhm pretty much Agitha, Zant, Zelda's Baton, Lana's Time Portal, and a few others were especially tough to unlock in their LV 3's.

I much prefer the "rack up your KO count" over the "kill 1,000 enemies in 10 minutes" because the latter clearly makes it a lot more difficult to find groups of enemies. Not to mention, the bosses that spawn and follow you around non-stop (Argorok especially is a nuisance due to how quickly he catches up to you).

Oh for the beetle, I meant the move where she summons a glyph on the ground and jumps up and down, giggling (which you can dodge cancel after) when she summons her beetle. That's literally like one of the two moves I use with her, and I'll spam it against officers because... what else can you do with Agitha? Also her regular attacks are so painfully slow and have pitiful range.
I actually learned Lana's summoning gate fairly quickly and those missions weren't so bad once I knew what I had to do. Her level 2 was actually harder for me than her level 3. There's kind of a particular way to approach that level 2 quest, and if you don't things quickly get out of hand. It's all about spamming strong attack with the gate and then using your combo when the crowd gets big and you have space. You just have to remember what the last strong attack summon was though. It's hard for me not to spam strong attack fishing for the Argorok summon just so I can do the "ride around on it's back while it breathes fire" combo.

Yeah, that's the same beetle move I was talking about with Agitha. Done right, she doesn't really get to that "jumping" part. She's one of my least favorite characters too. She's actually pretty high level for me though just because I had to get her to a higher level earlier on to do her special quests like that level 3.

The 1000 enemies in 10 minutes quests can be really tough. I've only done a few of those with my highest level characters - Zelda, Link, and Sheik.
 

gameprodigy12

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 24, 2014
Messages
130
Location
Allen, Texas
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Gameprodigy12
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Implying I'm trying to make people like the things I like whenever I get into a debate with someone.

There is such a thing as trying to explain your thoughts.

The fact you don't even want to discuss it is incredibly disappointing anyhow.
Like MTP trying to say he's right and your wrong with his "views" and blocking you if that person doesn't agree with his wrong view lol. Heck on top of that lets have you apologize for even trying to reason or debate else block penalty lol. :p
 

jahkzheng

Smash Lord
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,653
Location
Northern California
I still have to get a lot of the level 3 weapons in Hyrule Warriors. Ruto's in particular is being a nasty one.
The trick to that one is to clear the hallway you start in and once the poe is dead, run straight to the back room where you fight "fake Zelda" in story mode. Make a path through the crowd to get to that room by using C5, the tsunami. Your C5 will completely fill your water meter as I recall. Once you're in that room, stand facing north looking toward the hall that opens into the large area. Kill enemies as they bottleneck in. Use C5 when it's safe and your standard strong attack, (the wave throw that uses your water meter), to keep the enemies at bay. Eventually, they'll likely sneak in past you since there's just so much of them and it's hard to keep the hall clear without compromising your safety. When that happens, retreat out the left or right exit and let the enemies crowd your main base of operations. Quickly kill what's visible and threatening outside so that you can turn your back to it and face the entrance to the room you just came out from. Charge your water meter just outside the room, then run just inside and kill a bunch of enemies with your strong attack. Retreat out again and let a few enemies chase you. Kill them with C5 or whatever it is your charging your water meter with. Run back just inside the same room and empty your water meter on a bunch of enemies again. Repeat this process a few times, occassionally retaking the room when it's safe enough but retreating again when it gets crowded. Using both side exits by running across the room also allows you to draw more enemies as you retreat so you can kill more chasers. In this way you can just about flawlessly manage your damage. You just have to keep an eye on your time.
 

SBphiloz4

Gatekeeper of the Shadows
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
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SBphiloz4
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heres me playing melee doubles

Dat teamwork is impeccable! Love your Peach usage of HOOS and HAAHS and YAHOOOs! Must of needed a lot of practice to get that move done right to perfection! It almost makes her look broken! :^)
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
I have the opposite problem from Macchiato, I want to branch out to more characters but all paths lead back to Rosalina.

:4lucario: Kind of bleh about his range+speed but I love his combos and Aura Sphere. Feels reliant on AS in MUs where opponents can keep him out, which wouldn't be the worst thing if it didn't clank out against or be absorbed by so many projectiles (GET OUT OLIMAR). Probably just takes a change of mindset.
:4metaknight: Cool character, no complaints about him. Cannot play him to save my life for reasons unknown. Synergy is a weird thing.
:4greninja: Huge amounts of rust + I frequently find myself realizing there isn't a single MU where I'd rather use him over Rosalina (though technically he's better vs Pika)
:4luigi: Only really staying away from him because I can't mash enough for jumpless cyclone; haven't played him enough to say whether or not I'd still be fine with him, but I see all the situations where I could be using jumpless cyclone for recovery or gimps and it just bothers me a ton knowing I'm physically incapable of utilizing one of the character's strongest tools.
:4jigglypuff: The fact that she does poorly in lag already makes me not want to commit to her when I'm more or less forced to play online, but something about her kit in this game just feels off to me, can't really put my finger on it. Also probably like Greninja where I don't think there are MUs I'd want to pull her out over Rosa, so she'd just end up being for funsies.
:4yoshi: I am literally ******** at playing this character. Something about his kit also feels incomplete to me, but I can't really put my finger on it. Probably limited kill confirms + horrid grab game.
:4dedede: Love his edgeguarding and reach, hate how slow and campable he is
:4zelda: Hard for me to enjoy. FW is her only move I find fun, the rest of her kit is bleh.
:4sheik: Weak individual hits don't feel very satisfying. Also pretty bad at her, probably because fast characters aren't my thing.
:4palutena: Boring without customs.
:4ganondorf: Too volatile.
:4myfriends: idk
:4megaman: Usually I love zoning characters, and I love Mega Man, but I think his kit is just too unconventional for me.

Thinking MUs, I suppose I should be looking at Luigi next and just deal with the fact that I can't mash worth ****. It'd be nice to play my old main from previous games again anyway.

tl;dr I guess :4luigi:'s next up in the lab
 

CatRaccoonBL

You can do it!
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
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4,898
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Wuhu Island
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RaccoonBL
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I have the opposite problem from Macchiato, I want to branch out to more characters but all paths lead back to Rosalina.

:4lucario: Kind of bleh about his range+speed but I love his combos and Aura Sphere. Feels reliant on AS in MUs where opponents can keep him out, which wouldn't be the worst thing if it didn't clank out against or be absorbed by so many projectiles (GET OUT OLIMAR). Probably just takes a change of mindset.
:4metaknight: Cool character, no complaints about him. Cannot play him to save my life for reasons unknown. Synergy is a weird thing.
:4greninja: Huge amounts of rust + I frequently find myself realizing there isn't a single MU where I'd rather use him over Rosalina (though technically he's better vs Pika)
:4luigi: Only really staying away from him because I can't mash enough for jumpless cyclone; haven't played him enough to say whether or not I'd still be fine with him, but I see all the situations where I could be using jumpless cyclone for recovery or gimps and it just bothers me a ton knowing I'm physically incapable of utilizing one of the character's strongest tools.
:4jigglypuff: The fact that she does poorly in lag already makes me not want to commit to her when I'm more or less forced to play online, but something about her kit in this game just feels off to me, can't really put my finger on it. Also probably like Greninja where I don't think there are MUs I'd want to pull her out over Rosa, so she'd just end up being for funsies.
:4yoshi: I am literally ******** at playing this character. Something about his kit also feels incomplete to me, but I can't really put my finger on it. Probably limited kill confirms + horrid grab game.
:4dedede: Love his edgeguarding and reach, hate how slow and campable he is
:4zelda: Hard for me to enjoy. FW is her only move I find fun, the rest of her kit is bleh.
:4sheik: Weak individual hits don't feel very satisfying. Also pretty bad at her, probably because fast characters aren't my thing.
:4palutena: Boring without customs.
:4ganondorf: Too volatile.
:4myfriends: idk
:4megaman: Usually I love zoning characters, and I love Mega Man, but I think his kit is just too unconventional for me.

Thinking MUs, I suppose I should be looking at Luigi next and just deal with the fact that I can't mash worth ****. It'd be nice to play my old main from previous games again anyway.

tl;dr I guess :4luigi:'s next up in the lab
Eh, I'm pretty much content with Rosalina and Villager myself.

Both are characters I like from their own games stand point, have movesets I like, and are considered amazing/at least useable.
 

Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
19,659
:4greninja: Huge amounts of rust + I frequently find myself realizing there isn't a single MU where I'd rather use him over Rosalina (though technically he's better vs Pika)
dammit frog
...wtf was that omg
 
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