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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
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Oct 24, 2014
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Wat. So, the pastebin has Lucario's Jab 1 (6-8) with an enable transtion to next jab state on real frame 13 and Jab 2 comes out at frame 5-6. So, wouldn't that make it be Jab 1 (6-8) to Jab 2 (17-18)? Jaxas has Jab 2 at 22-33.
Like I said earlier on this page, his frame data includes hitlag from the hits connecting, so the numbers are inflated on the end lag for everything (though Lucario's data in that regard is still godawful regardless)
 
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Like I said earlier on this page, his frame data includes hitlag from the hits connecting, so the numbers are inflated on the end lag for everything (though Lucario's data in that regard is still godawful regardless)
why do people do this ;_;
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
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Seriously? Why? What was the purpose of giving what's basically recoil by hitting something?
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
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To be fair their thread is from October (read: before Master Core existed), so knowing what frame their moves hit on was a pretty big deal at the time

it just unfortunately skewed the end numbers
 
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Joined
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7,190
I mean I can understand that I GUESS its giving you "true" frame data, but like

Those frames can be cut out since neither of you can do anything aside from SDI I guess

Like for the people who main the character the frame data is for, hitlag frames are irrelevant and just make stuff seem worse (or better) than it really is

IN MY OPINION ofc
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
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indigo I don't understand your avatar

is it supposed to mean "Eyes down here, mister!"?

because that conflicts with everything I've ever learned in my life
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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I mean I can understand that I GUESS its giving you "true" frame data, but like

Those frames can be cut out since neither of you can do anything aside from SDI I guess

Like for the people who main the character the frame data is for, hitlag frames are irrelevant and just make stuff seem worse (or better) than it really is

IN MY OPINION ofc
Mine's more of knowing what moves come out when and how to counter it. So, if someone does say, Ganondorf's Up Smash, then you can vaguely guess how long. Eh, it's just there and in some cases, it's more for say, Fox vs. Falco who have similar range and similar data. So, if they're both clanking with Ftilt, then one of them might want to try Utilt instead. Or if say, Captain Falcon's getting juggled, then he knows exactly which move to stop being counter with or attempt to which I think is either Nair or Uair since Nair covers more of Captain Falcon while Uair doesn't cover below him well.
 
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Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Mine's more of knowing what moves come out when and how to counter it. So, if someone does say, Ganondorf's Up Smash, then you can vaguely guess how long.
The thing is, startup isn't telling of total commit time. You can look at the pastebin and say "oh Ganondorf's usmash is really slow", but what you don't see is that there's only 20 frames of endlag and that it's unpunishable on shield and even kind of hard to punish on whiff. In contrast you have Lucario's usmash, which comes out 6 frames sooner but has 40 frames of end lag and nowhere near the same frontal reach, making it hugely punishable.

(For reference Soaring Nado's hitbox is out for 18-19 frames, all of which are clean)
Maybe I should be considering Soaring Nado over the default after all, on the rare occasion I play doc.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
So like, through out the whole day of school, my nose was RUNNING SO DAMN MUCH. IT WOULD NOT STOP. IT WAS LIKE A WATERFALL COMING OUT OF MY NOSE. It was really bad xD
 

Soul.

 
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GGs! I hope to fight your Pikachu more, I just can't grab that slippery little guy.
We can always battle again. I'm only good with Pikachu right now so lol. I might try out other characters.
 
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warionumbah2

Smash Master
Joined
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Playing KOF XIV
Man Lucario's normals suck, never see the guy much anymore after jumping on the Wii U(FG,Ladders even in tournaments).

As the meta develops people will be better at landing kills, characters with kill setups will most likely land them frequently. Once you get the stock lead its an up hill battle for him.

He's only gonna get worse as time goes on, aura was cute but now...

@TTTTTsd these will get you moist.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZZgSiMCB9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hv7CHngYG8
 
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Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
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It's funny how aura seemed so absurdly broken early in the game's life, and now it actually seems underpowered if anything

I mean he isn't at x1.0 power until 70%, I'd argue with his frame data he isn't where he "should" be until ~100%, and at that point he's 1~3 hits away from kissing the blast zone.

I like his moveset a lot though and he's fun to play
 

Lorde

Let 'em talk
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omg the wii u plays a cute little song and animation when you log on during your birthday.

In other news, I'm going to start learning Peach. Dark Pch is so great for making a ton of Smash 4 Peach guides.
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Aug 25, 2014
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The thing is, startup isn't telling of total commit time. You can look at the pastebin and say "oh Ganondorf's usmash is really slow", but what you don't see is that there's only 20 frames of endlag and that it's unpunishable on shield and even kind of hard to punish on whiff. In contrast you have Lucario's usmash, which comes out 6 frames sooner but has 40 frames of end lag and nowhere near the same frontal reach, making it hugely punishable.


Maybe I should be considering Soaring Nado over the default after all, on the rare occasion I play doc.
I meant more of how long this attack will last since some attacks last a long time while others don't. So, Palutena's Tilts are slow, but they last a long time. Some people might just run into it thinking, "Oh, it's probably done now", but get hit instead. People constantly don't shield Falco's landing Fair thinking it's not going to do a thing, dealing with Luigi's Cyclone, etc. Sure, MU inexperience, but it's still better to have a vague idea of how long and how fast something hits rather than hoping you're right, but getting hit instead. In some cases, it's the opposite where the animation shows a hit, but it's actually nothing. Doesn't that happen to Palutena's Up Smash where it still has the laser-thingie, but it's actually finished.

I still need to find start up, landing lag, and end lag for Falco and that would be much more helpful alongside the hit frames table.
 

Locke 06

Sayonara, bye bye~
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And the Zelda For Glory escapades start now.

Any tips for a Zelda first timer? I have some of the basic stuff from watching you gorls (dtilts, dthrow>nair>bair, elevators, nayru get off me)

ZELDA IN LAG. NOOOOOOOOO. cri


YUUUUP. JUST BEAT A FOX WHO WAS JAB CANCELING AND ****.
 
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Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
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9f end lag on jab, combos into dash attack at lowish percents
dair is awesome for edgeguards, the strong hit is really powerful and the weak hit lingers for ~10 frames and still spikes
utilt combos into things
dthrow>uair kills
stuff
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
omg the wii u plays a cute little song and animation when you log on during your birthday.

In other news, I'm going to start learning Peach. Dark Pch is so great for making a ton of Smash 4 Peach guides.
PEACH SISTERSSSSSS!:peachmelee::peach::4peach: We could have had a third sister, but they made a choice to use someone else.......this person shall remain un-named.........

*COUGH* MACCHIATO *COUGH*
 

Rickster

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Lucario shouldn't have been touched.
why just not bring back brawl lucario
THANK YOU. I liked his playstyle much more in Brawl than here. Just give him his hitboxes back and make aura not scale like crazy. Like in Brawl it was a steady increase (or it felt like it to me). Now you're weak until like 100% then you're suddenly Ganondorf strength.
 

Soul.

 
Joined
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THANK YOU. I liked his playstyle much more in Brawl than here. Just give him his hitboxes back and make aura not scale like crazy. Like in Brawl it was a steady increase (or it felt like it to me). Now you're weak until like 100% then you're suddenly Ganondorf strength.
He's a lot better in Brawl. Actually had footsies. Didn't care about Aura that much.
also Smashville / Town and City at evening looks so boring
 

S.F.L.R_9

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And the Zelda For Glory escapades start now.

Any tips for a Zelda first timer? I have some of the basic stuff from watching you gorls (dtilts, dthrow>nair>bair, elevators, nayru get off me)

ZELDA IN LAG. NOOOOOOOOO. cri
Zelda's gameplan:

For actual advice, watch Nairu (just in case of name search). He has an amazing Zelda.
RAGE FW KILLING AT 38%. WHAT.
On Battlefield's top platform it KO's Jiggly at 0% :^)
 
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Lorde

Let 'em talk
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PEACH SISTERSSSSSS!:peachmelee::peach::4peach: We could have had a third sister, but they made a choice to use someone else.......this person shall remain un-named.........

*COUGH* MACCHIATO *COUGH*
I've wanted to pick up Peach for a few months but she's so technical that I was stalling it. Now that I've been playing a lot of Brawl Peach (who is really fun to use, btw), I felt it was finally time to start learning how to use her. Melee Peach is fun, too, but idk I like Brawl Peach more.

What Peach palette do you use, btw? I'm really torn between white, blue, and green. I've used blue since Melee but white looks so good and green is decent. Daisy isn't bad either but I think it's kinda overused (as with the black palette).
 

Nammy12

Smash Lord
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Changing the colors of moves in Melee is more difficult that I thought it would be.
#noexperiencecoding

I think I finally got it figured out though.
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
THANK YOU. I liked his playstyle much more in Brawl than here. Just give him his hitboxes back and make aura not scale like crazy. Like in Brawl it was a steady increase (or it felt like it to me). Now you're weak until like 100% then you're suddenly Ganondorf strength.
in Brawl it scaled x0.7>x1.4
here it scales x0.66>x1.7
both games had him at x1.0 at 70%

I don't remember a whole lot about Brawl Lucario (or Brawl in general), but I do recall Lucario's moveset feeling really fluid in that game. I thought I'd likely main him in 4 assuming he'd be the same but he changed quite a bit, though after figuring out how he works now I'm not quite as bothered.

Peach palette
white

RAGE FW KILLING AT 38%. WHAT.
Welcome to SSB4 Zelda, gorl :189:
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
I've wanted to pick up Peach for a few months but she's so technical that I was stalling it. Now that I've been playing a lot of Brawl Peach (who is really fun to use, btw), I felt it was finally time to start learning how to use her. Melee Peach is fun, too, but idk I like Brawl Peach more.

What Peach palette do you use, btw? I'm really torn between white, blue, and green. I've used blue since Melee but white looks so good and green is decent. Daisy isn't bad either but I think it's kinda overused (as with the black palette).
I use the white Peach palette because AS EVERYONE KNOWS ALREADY BECAUSE OF THE MANY TIMES I'VE SAID IT, it reminds me of Selena Quintanilla in her Grammy dress.

 

Locke 06

Sayonara, bye bye~
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Yeah, I've watched Nayru play Zelda and you gorls. I'm not doing too bad. I'm generally defensive minded, so this is working decently.

Re Lucario: I think his low aura combo game is pretty underrated. I didn't know about it until I learned the hard way. He's still has a god awful neutral game and high aura was overrated.

WHAT. ZELDA DITTOS? Elevator'd for the win. And then he switched to Rosalina and got 2-stocked. Am I doing gewd?
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Re Lucario: I think his low aura combo game is pretty underrated. I didn't know about it until I learned the hard way. He's still has a god awful neutral game and high aura was overrated.
I can definitely agree with this. His conversions off utilt/uthrow are really good, and he can combo things off nair, grab, dtilt, fair, aura sphere charge, etc

Uthrow/Utilt>uair still gets kills around 120~130% when he's only at ~30-40% himself too

also it'd probably never happen in a real match but if he has full aura, (nair/aura sphere charge)>uthrow>fair>bair is a 0-death combo that does over 60%
 
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Soul.

 
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If you used Up B against a Rosalina then yeah I can see that
inb4 zelda wins MU posts
 

Locke 06

Sayonara, bye bye~
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I did use up-B, but I got both kills off of lightning kicks and luma was literally nowhere to be seen for most of the match.

Also, just dair>footstool'd a Link.
 
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