Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Spirst]

I'm at about 100/140 for the Wii U challenges. Most of them left will be challenging (20 Crazy Orders with Mario why) or time-consuming (beating stuff with all characters). I think I'm just under half of custom moves, too, although finishing up Classic and All-Star will help with that. I just hate how you can get duplicates and how I almost always get ROB customs since apparently Battlefield and Final Destination yield those for him.

EDIT wasn't Pikachu trash tier in Melee? I mean, so was my main but that's w/e.

Pikachu is 10/26 in the most recent Melee tier list. It's not amazing but it's definitely not trash tier. Take away the -ka- part of the name and then you'd be right.

 

[FullMoon]

I woke up to 28 alerts and 2 conversations and was like "nope not reading all of this", then clicked the first one and saw you commenting on 7. Wanna trade?

To be fair I probably would've gotten a lot more alerts if I had set it up to alert me everytime someone posted in a thread that I'm watching. Right now it only alerts me if someone likes a post I made, quotes or tags me which is a lot more convenient.

Unless you have it set the same way at which point, wow.

 

[Macchiato]

I'd argue Fox is below mid tier in Brawl but... that's fine. If we compare Smash characters to competitive Pokemon....

=
=
=
=
=

Fixed

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'd also like to thank my god and savior customs, thank god the dev team was lazy and just slapped Mario's/Luigi's customs onto Doc. Whew!

 

[Rizen]

I'm at about 100/140 for the Wii U challenges. Most of them left will be challenging (20 Crazy Orders with Mario why) or time-consuming (beating stuff with all characters). I think I'm just under half of custom moves, too, although finishing up Classic and All-Star will help with that. I just hate how you can get duplicates and how I almost always get ROB customs since apparently Battlefield and Final Destination yield those for him.

EDIT wasn't Pikachu trash tier in Melee? I mean, so was my main but that's w/e.

I get a lot of ROB customs too . The challenge I'm worried about is compete the gourmet race 1 player event on hard.
Here's how I got the Dr.Light trophy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XZQwmCVRBI

 

[Lavani]

I was going to comment on how Pikachu didn't have kill power before 1.0.4, but checking MasterCore2 apparently only fsmash/skull bash/thunder got KO power buffs...his dash attack always KO'd as well as it does?

Guess I'm just dumb l0l

To be fair I probably would've gotten a lot more alerts if I had set it up to alert me everytime someone posted in a thread that I'm watching. Right now it only alerts me if someone likes a post I made, quotes or tags me which is a lot more convenient.

Unless you have it set the same way at which point, wow.

I didn't know that was something we could disable

I might have to consider that, because when you get 28 alerts the forum tends to not display all 28 and then stuff goes unread anyway.

I just hate how you can get duplicates and how I almost always get ROB customs since apparently Battlefield and Final Destination yield those for him.

is this a joke from sakurai about competitive players being robots

 

[Kofu]

Pikachu is 10/26 in the most recent Melee tier list. It's not amazing but it's definitely not trash tier. Take away the -ka- part of the name and then you'd be right.

When did this come out? Last I checked Pika was near the bottom (or maybe I was confusing him with Pichu, it's possible). Plus I never hear anyone talk about Melee Pikachu.

I get a lot of ROB customs too . The challenge I'm worried about is compete the gourmet race 1 player event on hard.
Here's how I got the Dr.Light trophy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XZQwmCVRBI

I did that one already, it sucked. If it wasn't timed it'd be quite doable. You kind of have to learn where the chests spawn. And if the stage wasn't so big you could see the random food items that are scattered on the stage better.

The Final Final Battle on hard is also a nightmare.

I've done most events on medium but a handful I've completed on hard.

 

[Soul.]

You were worried about Pikachu being bad in Smash? That character always has it good, grumble grumble.

Back on 3DS people thought Pika was meh until they realized it got buffed from Brawl lel
I know it will always be good, just like Fox.

When did this come out? Last I checked Pika was near the bottom (oraybe I was confusing him with Pichu, it's possible). Plus I never hear anyone talk about Melee Pikachu.

In the summer of 2013. Axe made Melee Pikachu look good.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Back on 3DS people thought Pika was meh until they realised it got buffed from Brawl lel
I know it will always be good, just like Fox.

Back on the 3DS people thought Dr. Mario was Bottom 5. To be fair with vectoring the way it was, he probably WAS. God the 3DS days were....hilarious. Crazy what a GC controller does to the game + vertical vectoring removed (horizontal is still in).

 

[Soul.]

Back on the 3DS people thought Dr. Mario was Bottom 5. To be fair with vectoring the way it was, he probably WAS. God the 3DS days were....hilarious. Crazy what a GC controller does to the game + vertical vectoring removed (horizontal is still in).

Lmao yeah they were. I miss them tho.
I would play Wii U with the Pro Controller because preference. On Wii U, Pikachu can dash > short hop uair which helps the down throw follow up. Doing that on 3DS is somewhat hard but I prefer that version because 3DS is love <3

 

[Spirst]

When did this come out? Last I checked Pika was near the bottom (oraybe I was confusing him with Pichu, it's possible). Plus I never hear anyone talk about Melee Pikachu.


I did that one already, it sucked. If it wasn't timed it'd be quite doable. You kind of have to learn where the chests spawn. And if the stage wasn't so big you could see the random food items that are scattered on the stage better.

The Final Final Battle on hard is also a nightmare.

I've done most events on medium but a handful I've completed on hard.

Just checked and it's actually the Melee community tier list (listed as 11th on ssbwiki) that has Pikachu at 10th. The last 'official' MBR one from 2010 (4 years ago jeez) has Pikachu at 12th.

 

[Kofu]

Hey, @ Spirst , I want to test something about stale moves and projectiles and was having a hard time coming up with one that dealt good damage that didn't vary with charge/distance, and realized Duck Hunt's Trick Shot was probably a good candidate. So I'm checking with you: what's Trick Shot's base damage and does it vary with time/distance?

 

[Soul.]

Someone. Tell me if Pikachu's DAir pushes shields.
inb4 doesn't

 

[Spirst]

Hey, @ Spirst , I want to test something about stale moves and projectiles and was having a hard time coming up with one that dealt good damage that didn't vary with charge/distance, and realized Duck Hunt's Trick Shot was probably a good candidate. So I'm checking with you: what's Trick Shot's base damage and does it vary with time/distance?

Duck Hunt's Trick Shot is really weird. The base damage is 9% but it does fluctuate. The max that can be done with one Can explosion is 12% and the range is 9%-12%. The more shots you have on it (8 from the point it's kicked out), the faster it falls. The faster falling Cans are the ones that do 12%.

 

[Macchiato]

@ FullMoon also when yew upload our matches put the links here so I can add it to the video thread

 

[Ffamran]

I just got Reflector Void and the range and power it has makes it pretty cool as an aerial option. It's not that slow considering that it would be just 1 frame slower than Uair, 4 frames slower than default Reflector, and 3 frames faster than Fair. The only issue is that it takes away from reflecting energy projectiles and a fast spacing tool. In certain match ups, Reflector Void would be better while in others default and Accele-Reflector would be better.

 

[warionumbah2]

I've lost all hope in dr mario without customs, I am slightly more optimistic about his custom sets but after today I noticed that some characters have all these customs that barely change the MU.

Played a Mario who had gust cape, fast fireball, explosive punch and I think high pressure fludd. His fire balls did not force MK to approach, his cape did not hinder my recovery, he didn't get a chance to use fludd since I always made it back.

Windboxes are useless against teleport recoveries like zelda, palutina and meta. Explosive punch is an insane OOS move but booty as a recovery.

@ FullMoon also when yew upload our matches put the links here so I can add it to the video thread

Lol at meta knight being there. You cant handle the raw power of meta (game) knight.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Posted the Paletuna Guide 101 on the Palutena boards. Exposing their secrets one by one. :^)

Gorls, I made a guide on how to use Paletuna in this game, you should thank me for it. :^)

 

[Macchiato]

I've lost all hope in dr mario without customs, I am slightly more optimistic about his custom sets but after today I noticed that some characters have all these customs that barely change the MU.

Played a Mario who had gust cape, fast fireball, explosive punch and I think high pressure fludd. His fire balls did not force MK to approach, his cape did not hinder my recovery, he didn't get a chance to use fludd since I always made it back.

Windboxes are useless against teleport recoveries like zelda, palutina and meta. Explosive punch is an insane OOS move but booty as a recovery.

Lol at meta knight being there. You cant handle the raw power of meta (game) knight.

Oh that's a placeholder lol. sorry, I just don't like how he plays.

 

[Berserker.]

Just picking up everyone I was trying earlier, aren't you

Does that mean Lucario's next?

Also, Scalding FLUDD? How's that working out? I went straight to High Pressure and never tried it, I don't even know what's different beyond it doing damage.

Scalding FLUDD's pretty good for gimping bad recoveries. Other than that? Eh. It's alright. I guess

 

[TTTTTsd]

I just got Reflector Void and the range and power it has makes it pretty cool as an aerial option. It's not that slow considering that it would be just 1 frame slower than Uair, 4 frames slower than default Reflector, and 3 frames faster than Fair. The only issue is that it takes away from reflecting energy projectiles and a fast spacing tool. In certain match ups, Reflector Void would be better while in others default and Accele-Reflector would be better.

I argue that Reflector Void is better vs. Villager in the threat of Pocket and other crap. That's one MU I can immediately think of.

Also Doc with customs is wayy wayyy better. He can't always force an approach but having a Falco laser and Down-B 1 with a ton of priority gives you a very interesting way of keeping people out and making them respect your options since the pills still flinch even for puny damage. I also think Breezy Sheet is excellent because unlike Gust Cape it doesn't pop you up meaning SH Breezy can push people away and you can condition them into thinking you'll select that option and empty fastfall into a grab or something. It's dirty but a mixup is a mixup.

 

[TimeSmash]

Zelda Zelda Zelda
Used Dair and watched as you fellda fellda fellda

to your death

 

[Macchiato]

Zelda Zelda Zelda
Used Dair and watched as you fellda fellda fellda

to your death

Um that never actually happens.

 

[Ffamran]

Um that never actually happens.

Liar, it totally happened to Link.

 

[Macchiato]

Liar, it totally happened to Link.

Oh I thought he meant the Zelda falls to her death. Okay okay

 

[warionumbah2]

Its basically Sheiks needles but no KB, puny damage but no KB or kill setups. Any character with above average mobility can ignore them tbh, Luigi and DDD don't have that luxury. Kirby and Jiggly can either jump over them or crouch.

Nado and Breezy Sheet seem very situation and not that rewarding.

When you say Doc with customs are great do you mean compared to his default self or compared to the whole cast with their customs?

I dunno i fear more people will use Mario again,FLUDD seems to be hella good on some characters as well as doing better against the higher tiers.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Its basically Sheiks needles but no KB, puny damage but no KB or kill setups. Any character with above average mobility can ignore them tbh, Luigi and DDD don't have that luxury. Kirby and Jiggly can either jump over them or crouch.

Nado and Breezy Sheet seem very situation and not that rewarding.

When you say Doc with customs are great do you mean compared to his default self or compared to the whole cast with their customs?

I dunno i fear more people will use Mario again,FLUDD seems to be hella good on some characters as well as doing better against the higher tiers.

Compared to his default self. I think Doc with customs rounds himself out in the centre/low mid of the cast because they drastically improve his options vs. everyone in the grand scheme of things. Breezy Sheet would be situation dependent if you had any reason to like, not run it. Slightly laggier but it is just in general a vastly vastly better move that functions as a straight up upgrade. Shocking Sheet is also great with Doc if you know how to run it proper as it has no real drawbacks because Doc's sheet never stalled to begin with.

Fast Pills work better vs. the cast as a whole compared to Pills which I believe only work on tall/heavies. It doesn't mitigate floaties or multijumpers but in the case of Kirby or Jiggs the range is comparable between the two so it's not MU changing. MK is a different story I'd just CP a different char at that point lol. Nado is sort of situational too but it's his best Down-B IMO as it is the most reliable, kills ridiculously low as an edgeguard (when you can drop Bowser at 70% no rage it's worth noting) and has good synergy with the Fast Capsule as a whole IMO. Nado is rewarding (not super centralizing however) and is literally the only reason default Doc is borderline viable IMO. Even for a frame 10 move the priority is great and the utility is there, you just can't overuse it or else you'll die hard sadly.

Relative to the whole cast I think he improves marginally, not enough to go over Mario or match him but he holds his own so much better.

 

[Gay Ginger]

Zelda with customs yay. She gets a better phantom, slightly better dins, slight worst Nayru and a completely useless one, and she gets a great defensive recovery tool thing. I don't think she'll fall down the tier list with customs on tbh.

Well she can't fall any lower; she's already on the bottom....

 

[Macchiato]

Well she can't fall any lower; she's already on the bottom....

MIDDLE

 

[Lavani]

Someone. Tell me if Pikachu's DAir pushes shields.
inb4 doesn't

whoops thought I replied to this already

My understanding of shield pushback is that hits need to do 14% minimum for any noticeable effect, so I'm going to say no without actually testing anything.

also wow dair stays active for 13 frames with no sourspot or weak hit, meaty af

EDIT: I tested Little Mac's downward fsmash instead because it does 22% and has no knockback
it knocks opponents away more on shield than on hit lol

EDIT2: Pika's dair does have a minor amount of shield pushback I guess, it really isn't much though.

 

[Kofu]

whoops thought I replied to this already

My understanding of shield pushback is that hits need to do 14% minimum for any noticeable effect, so I'm going to say no without actually testing anything.

also wow dair stays active for 13 frames with no sourspot or weak hit, meaty af

EDIT: I tested Little Mac's downward fsmash instead because it does 22% and has no knockback
it knocks opponents away more on shield than on hit lol

Little Mac's down-angled Fsmash wrecks shields though. It's a silly move.

Duck Hunt's Trick Shot is really weird. The base damage is 9% but it does fluctuate. The max that can be done with one Can explosion is 12% and the range is 9%-12%. The more shots you have on it (8 from the point it's kicked out), the faster it falls. The faster falling Cans are the ones that do 12%.

Ugh Sakutena why can't you make a projectile that would make this easy to test with

I want to use ROB's fully charged laser, since it does a nice, even 10%, but I can't speed up the charge. I'd use Samus's fully charged Shot but it would kill too quickly. Thunder is another contender (since IIRC it does 8% all along the bolt) but the trajectory is weird. If all else fails I'll use Lloid Rocket, since I believe it does 7% up to a certain point (then changes to 5%).

Will the can do 9% if I only press B once and it lands on the opponent from the initial kick?

 

[Fernosaur]

MIDDLE

Middle of the bottom, sure.

 

[Macchiato]

Middle of the Middle, sure.

Fixed it for ya sis.

 

[Spirst]

Little Mac's down-angled Fsmash wrecks shields though. It's a silly move.


Ugh Sakutena why can't you make a projectile that would make this easy to test with

I want to use ROB's fully charged laser, since it does a nice, even 10%, but I can't speed up the charge. I'd use Samus's fully charged Shot but it would kill too quickly. Thunder is another contender (since IIRC it does 8% all along the bolt) but the trajectory is weird. If all else fails I'll use Lloid Rocket, since I believe it does 7% up to a certain point (then changes to 5%).

Will the can do 9% if I only press B once and it lands on the opponent from the initial kick?

If you're grounded and spawn the Can and it hits the other character before touching the floor, it should always do 9%. If you SH/FH it and the Can hits the other character, it can do 10%...or 9%.

Yeah...don't use Trick Shot for reliable testing as the name implies.

 

[Fernosaur]

Guys, have any of you played Transistor yet? I really wanna get it, but I never got around to finish Bastion because.... I dunno why. I guess I should probably finish Bastion first.

 

[Lavani]

Little Mac's down-angled Fsmash wrecks shields though. It's a silly move.

I always found it odd that I never see Macs use it. If you're going to fsmash below kill percents you may as well go for the one with big (shield) damage.

I mean, >FG Macs, but still

 

[Soul.]

whoops thought I replied to this already

My understanding of shield pushback is that hits need to do 14% minimum for any noticeable effect, so I'm going to say no without actually testing anything.

also wow dair stays active for 13 frames with no sourspot or weak hit, meaty af

EDIT: I tested Little Mac's downward fsmash instead because it does 22% and has no knockback
it knocks opponents away more on shield than on hit lol

EDIT2: Pika's dair does have a minor amount of shield pushback I guess, it really isn't much though.

I see. Well it could be useful for that I guess.
DAir at 0% can follow up into utilt.

 

[2004Zilla]

Iol anyone got 65 grand to spare?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Godzilla-19...607?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa084c3cf

 

[Lorde]

So I made a thing...

 

[TimeSmash]

Um that never actually happens.

DON'T QUESTION MY RHYMING SKILLS