Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[BJN39]

Does Windfall work the same as the default one in the air? Meaning less KB and KBG with the aerial disappear.

Nope. Its disappear is exactly the same in the air as it is when grounded.

 

[Deleted member]

This little **** thinks Ganondorf sucks. Oh, I will give him a good reason to hate Ganondorf after he is neutered! I feel blood thirsty now, I am going to make him wish he was never born and crush him like the little insect he is!

Spoiler

 

[Rickster]

Nope. Its disappear is exactly the same in the air as it is when grounded.

Ooh, this move just became a tad more attractive to me, lol. So...that means that it also hits at a 90 degree angle in the air too! Not that weird 80/100 degree crap. Thanks for the info!

 

[Lavani]

As for the disappear hit-box differences, standard FW uses a stretchy hit-box that makes a large horizontal capsule, while FWfall is one large hit-box centered on Zelda. So the consequence as far as I can see is that FWfall would hit better above and below Zelda. IDK for sure which has more horizontal range, but considering FW standard uses a capsule, I bet it has the better range.

Oh, I forgot to look for these. Suddenly the whiffs with FWF make sense despite what I was reading in the data.

Yeah, FW has more horizontal reach. Unsure what the vertical is like between the two because I'm not sure what bone 0x2 is for Zelda.

FWF also has some upwards stretch on the reappear, I'd imagine to catch opponents that would otherwise fly past from the first hit's knockback. Still a smaller reappear hitbox than FW in all directions though.

Something fun about windfall though, is that since it doesn't ledge snap, its hit-box will always happen, meaning when recovering to the ledge, it could clip people onstage near the edge, or possibly even if they try and go for the off stage BAir on the ledge, it might lolspike them.

Just be careful with it!

 

[Lorde]

Here's the thing, I don't remember if he believes Ganondorf sucks, but someone does in that thread, meanwhile, the guy who mains, but bashes Mario likes Ganondorf. We had a discussion about Ganondorf and he constantly kept saying Mario would lose hardcore against Ganondorf... Then again, he says that about any character against Mario, probably including Mario himself and Dr. Mario. I guess he's the Mario version of the Zelda boards. Did I mention it's him alone? One man represents an entire board and this board jokes about it, but he doesn't. This guy is dead serious about Mario sucking donkey balls.

Apparently the Mario guy you're speaking of is notorious here at the Zelda boards. I think he harassed the sisters here saying that Zelda is a good character and stuff like that. I think it was during brawl times so I wasn't here and therefore don't know the whole story, but maybe one of the lovely sisters here could elaborate?

it's fun not mentioning his name. it's like he's voldemort

 

[BJN39]

Whenever people talk about Zelda data, I'm always thinking like: "Plz just look in the Fairy Fountain. I gots data there..."

/Dearjustsayin'diary

 

[Lavani]

Speaking of which, what are the "supposed" low tiers?

If I copy the C tier from my tier list, will you promise not to kill me?

Spoiler

C:

Some people believe should be down there too, but I'm not convinced. Hell, I'm not even sure that everyone in my C tier is actually C tier, but at the end of the day someone has to fill the bottom.

EDIT: I should add that this is no customs.

Whenever people talk about Zelda data, I'm always thinking like: "Plz just look in the Fairy Fountain. I gots data there..."

/Dearjustsayin'diary

Sorry, I'm engaged to MasterCore2.

 

[Soul.]

Zelda will never be good. She's low tier for a reason.
Traditions are a thing.

Who's complaining about Mario again?

If I copy the C tier from my tier list, will you promise not to kill me?

Spoiler

C:

Some people believe should be down there too, but I'm not convinced. Hell, I'm not even sure that everyone in my C tier is actually C tier, but at the end of the day someone has to fill the bottom.

Sorry, I'm engaged to MasterCore2.

Every Kirby character is down there. So sad.
inb4 "Robin is not a C tier" riot

wow why am I putting this image eveyr tiem

 

[BJN39]

Sorry, I'm engaged to MasterCore2.

Oh, okay.

 

[Ffamran]

Whenever people talk about Zelda data, I'm always thinking like: "Plz just look in the Fairy Fountain. I gots data there..."

/Dearjustsayin'diary

I bet people don't even know Falco has frame data. One day, people listed off who has aerials that come out at and below frame 4 and the only one listed for Falco was Nair. Yeah, the mighty fine frame 4 Bair Falco has is great, huh? I even mentioned it and nobody said a thing. Falco has the fastest Bair alongside Sheik, Mega Man, and Pikachu...

 

[Mericus]

The troll in the MU Thread :
" Read it already man you didn't say anything in there that leads me to believe this is in Zelda's favor. They're alike in my mind I group characters a certain way. To me the presence of Rosalina invalidates Zelda. "

Srsly confused and getting quite mad that an MU Thread outside a Backroom is THIS horrendous to read.
I know public MU discussions aren't " top quality ", but a mod should put their foot down if public threads are to be respected.

 

[BJN39]

The troll in the MU Thread :
" Read it already man you didn't say anything in there that leads me to believe this is in Zelda's favor. They're alike in my mind I group characters a certain way. To me the presence of Rosalina invalidates Zelda. "

Srsly confused and getting quite mad that an MU Thread outside a Backroom is THIS horrendous to read.
I know public MU discussions aren't " top quality ", but a mod should put their foot down if public threads are to be respected.

I guess in the end all we can say is thank bleepin' goodness these people aren't Zelda players...

I think I wouldn't like these sorts of people around here even if they were defending Zelda...

 

[evmaxy54]

Now sisters,

Why are we feeding the "troll"?

 

[Ffamran]

OH. MY. ZELDA. Read this award winning comment from the Character Competitive Impressions thread.

I use Zelda practically exclusively and this is my list based on only my experience



top:

high:

high mid:

mid:

low mid:

low:

bottom:

 

[Mericus]

I guess in the end all we can say is thank bleepin' goodness these people aren't Zelda players...

I think I wouldn't like these sorts of people around here even if they were defending Zelda...

Yeah.... I don't think 80% of us would be here if that were the case.

Zelda Boards : dignified and respectful communication with respect for another's views

80% of the rest : lolnope

 

[BJN39]

OH. MY. ZELDA. Read this award winning comment from the Character Competitive Impressions thread.

Love it 'cuz Zelda didn't even make the list. xD

 

[Ffamran]

Yeah.... I don't think 80% of us would be here if that were the case.

Zelda Boards : dignified and respectful communication with respect for another's views

80% of the rest : lolnope

You forgot about the Falco boards. See, it's nice there. See?

 

[Lavani]

Zelda will never be good. She's low tier for a reason.
Traditions are a thing.

Who's complaining about Mario again?


Every Kirby character is down there. So sad.
inb4 "Robin is not a C tier" riot

A thought that's been in the back of my mind since day 1 of 3DS: FW is basically a better Rest now for retaliation purposes, and can also be used like Dimensional Cape for punishing laggy moves used away from Zelda. I haven't seen anything to suggest that FW's going to be obsoleted by anything, and probably would've put her in lower B tier if she hadn't received a gorillion nerfs to other things in the transition from Brawl.

I'd rather not get into the Mario topic; but I will say a lot of his points weren't wrong, and when people cite him for saying Mario was bottom it was before DI was nerfed in 1.0.4 (though his opinion of the character is still low). To keep it short I would just say it's an improper evaluation of how much certain qualities matter + comparing him to Brawl Mario while ignoring SSB4's altered matchups.

Kirby has the problem of awful air speed and not really excelling at anything; I don't find him to be bad, he just fails to stand out. Dedede wins against most characters he forces to approach him and loses to most that he has to approach; I feel anyone that places him in the mid-high regions hasn't taken the time to learn how to combat Gordos. His attacks are also startlingly weak for a heavyweight; his laggy usmash has to be sweetspotted for the same damage as Mario's, for instance, and without rage he isn't killing before 130% without edgeguarding. Meta Knight I feel is sorely underrated by people comparing him to Brawl MK, though at the same time I often find myself wondering why you wouldn't play a character like Sheik or ZSS instead, who have comparable combo games without the arbitrary end lag on things and more range despite the lack of disjoint; I personally think he's around the #20~30 range, but could see him ending up a bit higher.

I'm not sure why I typed all this when you didn't even ask for explanations but WHATEVER

OH. MY. ZELDA. Read this award winning comment from the Character Competitive Impressions thread.

 

[Lozjam]

So who is now ready for all of the influx of Smash 4 Luigi players?

 

[Mericus]

You forgot about the Falco boards. See, it's nice there.

Despite being inactive, yeah they are. The s seem nice too, but the others are hard to look at :/

 

[GameAngel64]

Anyone stand at the edge and teleport/re-appear in place as your opponent snaps to the edge? It knocks them away...

 

[Soul.]

I'm waiting for the inevitable arrival of Luigi down throw → FAir spammers that don't use the godlike grounded B-reverse Fireball.
I'm also waiting for competent Mario players.

A thought that's been in the back of my mind since day 1 of 3DS: FW is basically a better Rest now for retaliation purposes, and can also be used like Dimensional Cape for punishing laggy moves used away from Zelda. I haven't seen anything to suggest that FW's going to be obsoleted by anything, and probably would've put her in lower B tier if she hadn't received a gorillion nerfs to other things in the transition from Brawl.

I'd rather not get into the Mario topic; but I will say a lot of his points weren't wrong, and when people cite him for saying Mario was bottom it was before DI was nerfed in 1.0.4 (though his opinion of the character is still low). To keep it short I would just say it's an improper evaluation of how much certain qualities matter + comparing him to Brawl Mario while ignoring SSB4's altered matchups.

Kirby has the problem of awful air speed and not really excelling at anything; I don't find him to be bad, he just fails to stand out. Dedede wins against most characters he forces to approach him and loses to most that he has to approach; I feel anyone that places him in the mid-high regions hasn't taken the time to learn how to combat Gordos. His attacks are also startlingly weak for a heavyweight; his laggy usmash has to be sweetspotted for the same damage as Mario's, for instance, and without rage he isn't killing before 130% without edgeguarding. Meta Knight I feel is sorely underrated by people comparing him to Brawl MK, though at the same time I often find myself wondering why you wouldn't play a character like Sheik or ZSS instead, who have comparable combo games without the arbitrary end lag on things and more range despite the lack of disjoint; I personally think he's around the #20~30 range, but could see him ending up a bit higher.

I'm not sure why I typed all this when you didn't even ask for explanations but WHATEVER

tl;dr: apparently Kirby is bad, Dedede is bad, and Meta Knight is meh. Farore's is a better Rest and lol Zelda got nerfed from Brawl (I don't really understand this but ok I guess).

Why does he think Smash 4 Mario is low tier is beyond me. He's actually good in this game. Good neutral (gr8 air speed), gimps well, stuff stuff stuff. Relies in usmash to KO though.

also that Onix

 

[Deleted member]

@ Shrokatii Okay, I'm done cx. GUD GAMEZ, AMIGO! Those matches were fun! ^o^ Excuse my bad Zelda xD

 

[Shrokatii]

@ Shrokatii Okay, I'm done cx. GUD GAMEZ, AMIGO! Those matches were fun! ^o^ Excuse my bad Zelda xD

lol your Zelda was better than mine. Good matches, they were fun!

 

[Lavani]

Farore's is a better Rest and lol Zelda got nerfed from Brawl (I don't really understand this but ok I guess).

Main point is that, like Jigglypuff, if you do something punishable around Zelda she has a really quick-to-start move that will kill you around 60%.

I don't know all her nerfs coming over from Brawl, I bet @ BJN39 could tell you more about those. Offhand I only recall that uair does less damage and kills later, nair does less damage, usmash's hitboxes were made even smaller, ftilt's knockback angle is worse, and I think stuff happened to dtilt/utilt too idk

Why does he think Smash 4 Mario is low tier is beyond me. He's actually good in this game. Good neutral (gr8 air speed), gimps well, stuff stuff stuff. Relies in usmash to KO though.

Poor range, poor damage per hit, poor recovery, no options against opponents recovering low, lacking kill power

are the main points I can recall.

also that Onix

:>

 

[Autumn ♫]

Just played as Zelda some in Smash 4. Turns out I'm fairly decent with her.

 

[BJN39]

@ Soul. Lavani's pretty correct. @KuroganeHammer and I would likely be able to answer any questions as to her changes between Brawl and SSB4. Feel free to ask some. ^ ^

 

[Soul.]

Main point is that, like Jigglypuff, if you do something punishable around Zelda she has a really quick-to-start move that will kill you around 60%.

I don't know all her nerfs coming over from Brawl, I bet @ BJN39 could tell you more about those. Offhand I only recall that uair does less damage and kills later, nair does less damage, usmash's hitboxes were made even smaller, ftilt's knockback angle is worse, and I think stuff happened to dtilt/utilt too idk


Poor range, poor damage per hit, poor recovery, no options against opponents recovering low, lacking kill power

are the main points I can recall.


:>

I guess customs help his poor range. Maybe. Not sure.

For real though if Zelda gets out of bottom tier central I'll just leave this song here:

@ Soul. Lavani's pretty correct. @KuroganeHammer and I would likely be able to answer any questions as to her changes between Brawl and SSB4. Feel free to ask some. ^ ^

ok
is BAir trash tier?

 

[Ffamran]

Despite being inactive, yeah they are. The s seem nice too, but the others are hard to look at :/

I think the , , , , , , , and are pretty chill too. I think has a calm board too.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess customs help his poor range. Maybe. Not sure.

For real though if Zelda gets out of bottom tier central I'll just leave this song here:

ok
is BAir trash tier?

That's better. I guess.

 

[Space Stranger]

If I can contribute anything to the thread, I have a replay saved where I kneed a player in FG. And I survived a bunch of Din's fire with , winning the round with a misfired green missile.

You're welcome.

 

[SBphiloz4]

IAnd I survived a bunch of Din's fire with , winning the round with a misfired green missile.

Well somebody on For Glory has no idea how to use Zelda. Good to know.

AND OMG IT SOUNDED LIKE @ Macchiato REKT'D DAT TROLL ON THE BOOZELINA BOARDS WITH ZELDA LOLOLOL.

 

[Macchiato]

Well somebody on For Glory has no idea how to use Zelda. Good to know.

AND OMG IT SOUNDED LIKE @ Macchiato REKT'D DAT TROLL ON THE BOOZELINA BOARDS WITH ZELDA LOLOLOL.

He won 3 out of 35 times

 

[Soul.]

That's better. I guess.

We all know this is the best song. Fits this thread very well:

I think the , , , , , , , and are pretty chill too. I think has a calm board too.

The Pikachu boards will always welcome everyone. Even you Zelda mains.

....Except Ganon mains.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

Just played as Zelda some in Smash 4. Turns out I'm fairly decent with her.

run while you can

 

[Ffamran]

Well somebody on For Glory has no idea how to use Zelda. Good to know.

AND OMG IT SOUNDED LIKE @ Macchiato REKT'D DAT TROLL ON THE BOOZELINA BOARDS WITH ZELDA LOLOLOL.

Nah, he's still at it. I suggest that @ Macchiato never have contact with him again; Macchiato, you should get a restraining order.

 

[Macchiato]

And ****ing trashed him with zelda. He's just ugh

 

[Space Stranger]

Well somebody on For Glory has no idea how to use Zelda. Good to know.

AND OMG IT SOUNDED LIKE @ Macchiato REKT'D DAT TROLL ON THE BOOZELINA BOARDS WITH ZELDA LOLOLOL.

You never fully experience FG without facing

 

[BJN39]

ok
is BAir trash tier?

That depends on what you think of as trash tier, really.

Its sweet-spot didn't get an increase from its puny Brawl size, and retains it's very weak disadvantageous on HIT sour-spots.

It now has a duration of around 55 frames, which since it hits on frame 6-9, that means a lot of lag. On top of this, its late auto-cancel window was moved to after frame 52, (from around frame 30) meaning you'll more often suffer it's now slightly increased from Brawl 25 landing lag frames.

It cannot be ignored though, that the sweet-spot is one of, if not the most powerful aerial hit-box in the game. Killing at 80-90, (Which in this game, is amazing.) and even earlier when rage comes into play. It's also no slouch at damage either.

Its use has to be very careful, and well placed, but successful use can be very rewarding, even making the many bad points get overlooked in favor of trying to land it. Beautiful when landed, depressing when flubbed or whiffed entirely.

I believe it's maybe more like low-mid BAir tier, or the top of bad BAir tier at lowest.

 

[Deleted member]

We all know this is the best song. Fits this thread very well:

The Pikachu boards will always welcome everyone. Even you Zelda mains.

....Except Ganon mains.

That's a good choice.