• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Buddhahobo

Buddhahobo

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
1,707
Location
Persona kids, Persona squids.
Rion said:
Where is Zelda's Usmash and Fsmash arm invul please! (I wish)
Click to expand...
We should make a wish list of everything we want Zelda to have.

a) Chargable down-b.

b) Side-b doesn't put you in free fall.

c) Can move in free fall after up-b, like every other character can.

d) Blanket 60% increase in sparkles on every move.

e) Sensible shoes.
 
BJN39

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,047
Location
The Zelda Boards
Rizen said:
I don't get why people are so freaked out about Mario's Usmash. It's good but nothing amazing, frame 9-12 attack and head invincibility, FAF 40. Heck Fox has foot invulnerability on his Usmash frame 1-9 and it hits 8-11, FAF 56 though. G&W's Usmash has head and arm (IIRC) invulnerability frames 4-25, hits 24-25 and FAF 39. I could go on but the point is Mario happens to be a very solid all around character and Usmash compliments this; Usmash it's self isn't super OP.
Click to expand...
You make a point with the comparison.


The thing is just that I hate all three of those Usmashes. They're all dumb. :^)

Maybe it's just that Fox can literally anything > Usmash at kill percent. Otherwise yeah it ain't too dumb since it has a mountain of endlag.
 
Cress!

Cress!

Keep your chin up!
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
2,758
Switch FC
2396-9345-5408
GamesBrained is a fun channel to watch when I want to laugh at how much misinformation or lack of info someone can put into a single video.

But then I end up crying because he has ads on every video and begs for Patron money. And people believe the wrong info.

THE TRIDENT IS NOT THE BEST THING IN THE GAME, IT ISN'T EVEN TOP 20. THAT'S LIKE SAYING ROBIN IS THE BEST CHARACTER IN SM4SH AND PEOPLE BELIEVE IT. AND THEN #2 IS THE CROSSBOWS AND #3 IS GHIRAHIM. UM... VOLGA? MASTER SWORD? GANONDORK'S OTHER, BETTER WEAPON? SKULL KID? YOUNG LINK? TOON ZELDA? HELLO????
 
Last edited:
Buddhahobo

Buddhahobo

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
1,707
Location
Persona kids, Persona squids.
Cress! said:
GamesBrained is a fun channel to watch when I want to laugh at how much misinformation or lack of info someone can put into a single video.

But then I end up crying because he has ads on every video and begs for Patron money. And people believe the wrong info.

THE TRIDENT IS NOT THE BEST THING IN THE GAME, IT ISN'T EVEN TOP 20. THAT'S LIKE SAYING ROBIN IS THE BEST CHARACTER IN SM4SH AND PEOPLE BELIEVE IT. AND THEN #2 IS THE CROSSBOWS AND #3 IS GHIRAHIM. UM... VOLGA? MASTER SWORD? GANONDORK'S OTHER, BETTER WEAPON? SKULL KID? YOUNG LINK? TOON ZELDA? HELLO????
Click to expand...
Never really understood the zealousness some people have with tiering the weapons in a 1st person game like Hyrule Warriors.

If you can comfortably get 1,500 KOs in less than 15 minutes without taking damage, then it's good. If you can't, then it's not. There's no meta to differentiate rankings besides that basic game mechanic mile stone to A-rank a mission. And considering not taking damage is largely character independent...

If you really want to, you can dock or give points based off of how well they do against their special missions (i.e., IIRC Zant's almost always puts him against giant monsters, so there's justification in placing greater emphasis on his ability to beat giant monsters compared to the other characters), but that's pretty much it.

And that's before you add augments/skills which can only bump you up.
 
Lavani

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Rizen said:
I don't get why people are so freaked out about Mario's Usmash. It's good but nothing amazing, frame 9-12 attack and head invincibility, FAF 40. Heck Fox has foot invulnerability on his Usmash frame 1-9 and it hits 8-11, FAF 56 though. G&W's Usmash has head and arm (IIRC) invulnerability frames 4-25, hits 24-25 and FAF 39. I could go on but the point is Mario happens to be a very solid all around character and Usmash compliments this; Usmash it's self isn't super OP.


I'll smash if anyone wants?
Click to expand...
The thing with his usmash is, it's quick to start and quick to end. Most are only one or the other, or might only hit/be strong on one side of the character.

The intangibility is w/e, upper body invuln on antiairs is a fighting game staple.
 
Last edited:
Burgundy

Burgundy

kick kick
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
2,538
Location
KY
NNID
SuperSableye24
3DS FC
5456-0591-6968
Cress! said:
GamesBrained is a fun channel to watch when I want to laugh at how much misinformation or lack of info someone can put into a single video.

But then I end up crying because he has ads on every video and begs for Patron money. And people believe the wrong info.

THE TRIDENT IS NOT THE BEST THING IN THE GAME, IT ISN'T EVEN TOP 20. THAT'S LIKE SAYING ROBIN IS THE BEST CHARACTER IN SM4SH AND PEOPLE BELIEVE IT. AND THEN #2 IS THE CROSSBOWS AND #3 IS GHIRAHIM. UM... VOLGA? MASTER SWORD? GANONDORK'S OTHER, BETTER WEAPON? SKULL KID? YOUNG LINK? TOON ZELDA? HELLO????
Click to expand...
I like his videos cause they're edited well and I like his voice.
I don't look to them for gameplay tips because, like you said, they don't have any (and I already know how to use them)
Calling them guides is pretty misleading on his part though.
 
Rizen

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,908
Location
Colorado
Lavani said:
The thing with his usmash is, it's quick to start and quick to end. Most are only one or the other, or might only hit/be strong on one side of the character.

The intangibility is w/e, upper body invuln on antiairs is a fighting game staple.
Click to expand...
It's a good Usmash for sure but not worth all the hype. Frame 9 is when the attack and invulnerability start and they last only through 12. The end lag is considerable since it doesn't linger like Usmashes that have a slower FAF. Some Usmash have invulnerability much earlier and that is a big thing, otherwise G&W's Usmash (frame 4 invulnerability) would be mediocre at best. Other Usmashes like Pit's attack frame 6 or Diddy frame 5.

I'm just saying Mario's Usmash doesn't stand out but people always talk about how broken it is (or maybe I should stop looking at the CCI thread lol). No one talks about Luigi's "super great" Usmash despite the same frames and more power. The reason Mario's is brought up so much is it's on a great character.
 
Eddie The Pacifist

Eddie The Pacifist

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,750
Location
Zelda Social
Lavani

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Rizen said:
No one talks about Luigi's "super great" Usmash despite the same frames and more power. The reason Mario's is brought up so much is it's on a great character.
Click to expand...
Luigi's usmash actually has a 12% sourspot and worse angle that offsets the slightly-higher knockback, on top of existing on a worse character who doesn't have the mobility to abuse it as well.

Not saying Luigi's isn't also great but it's still a worse version of a move on a worse character.
 
Last edited:
Rizen

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,908
Location
Colorado
Lavani said:
Luigi's usmash actually has a 12% sourspot and worse angle that offsets the slightly-higher knockback, on top of existing on a worse character who doesn't have the mobility to abuse it as well.

Not saying Luigi's isn't also great but it's still a worse version of a move on a worse character.
Click to expand...
Okay but my point stands.
 
EODM07

EODM07

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
6,835
Location
"That's Classified" - Mikuru
NNID
EODM07
3DS FC
3823-9238-9070

:secretkpop:

Also, decided to check IntroSpecktive's character positives video. Well, part 4 to be more specific.
>Gets to Lucina
>Mentions how if you main Lucina, you should play Marth
>mfw

 
Last edited:
Eddie The Pacifist

Eddie The Pacifist

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,750
Location
Zelda Social
"Zelda isn’t so great? Are you kidding me? When was the last time you saw a character with such good attacks and movement as Zelda? Zelda puts the game in another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see a character with her skill and attacks in the game again. Fox breaks records. Falco breaks records. Zelda breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic."

Thank you, YT comment section.
 
EODM07

EODM07

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
6,835
Location
"That's Classified" - Mikuru
NNID
EODM07
3DS FC
3823-9238-9070
Eddie The Pacifist said:
"Zelda isn’t so great? Are you kidding me? When was the last time you saw a character with such good attacks and movement as Zelda? Zelda puts the game in another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see a character with her skill and attacks in the game again. Fox breaks records. Falco breaks records. Zelda breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic."
Click to expand...
 
EODM07

EODM07

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
6,835
Location
"That's Classified" - Mikuru
NNID
EODM07
3DS FC
3823-9238-9070
It's kinda funny that I got a lot of quotes from the Ace Attorney games (Mostly Dual Destinies), I should be using them more often.
 
Last edited:
Ffamran

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Rizen said:
I don't get why people are so freaked out about Mario's Usmash. It's good but nothing amazing, frame 9-12 attack and head invincibility, FAF 40. Heck Fox has foot invulnerability on his Usmash frame 1-9 and it hits 8-11, FAF 56 though. G&W's Usmash has head and arm (IIRC) invulnerability frames 4-25, hits 24-25 and FAF 39. I could go on but the point is Mario happens to be a very solid all around character and Usmash compliments this; Usmash it's self isn't super OP.


I'll smash if anyone wants?
Click to expand...
Fox's Up Smash actually has head invincibility not foot invincibility. It's been this way since Melee. Why not head and upper body or lower body invincibility? I don't know. Aerials are strong in Smash. Anti-airs pretty much suck unless you have an actual anti-air like Mario and Ryu or use a weapon like Marth or Shulk.

Smash's invincibility placements at times are really stupid. It's better in recent games, but there are points where you'd go, "Huh, maybe Ganondorf having leg invincibility for Up Smash would be good", except it doesn't. In Captain Falcon's case, instead of invincibility, it has a dumbass disjoint. This also goes for other properties like transcendent priority where I don't think any normal projectiles should be transcendent, so not stuff like Bowser Fire Breath, Fox Blaster, Greninja's charged, somewhat slow moving Water Shuriken, or Zelda Din's Fire, but stuff like Falco Blaster shouldn't have been transcendent. Or something like transcendent priority on a non-disjoint such as Falco's Side Smash and Zelda's Ftilt? isn't really useful. If anything, it's just incentive to not make those moves good since it would be pretty stupid if they were good and had transcendent priority.
 
Rizen

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,908
Location
Colorado
Ffamran said:
Fox's Up Smash actually has head invincibility not foot invincibility. It's been this way since Melee. Why not head and upper body or lower body invincibility? I don't know. Aerials are strong in Smash. Anti-airs pretty much suck unless you have an actual anti-air like Mario and Ryu or use a weapon like Marth or Shulk.

Smash's invincibility placements at times are really stupid. It's better in recent games, but there are points where you'd go, "Huh, maybe Ganondorf having leg invincibility for Up Smash would be good", except it doesn't. In Captain Falcon's case, instead of invincibility, it has a ******* disjoint. This also goes for other properties like transcendent priority where I don't think any normal projectiles should be transcendent, so not stuff like Bowser Fire Breath, Fox Blaster, Greninja's charged, somewhat slow moving Water Shuriken, or Zelda Din's Fire, but stuff like Falco Blaster shouldn't have been transcendent. Or something like transcendent priority on a non-disjoint such as Falco's Side Smash and Zelda's Ftilt? isn't really useful. If anything, it's just incentive to not make those moves good since it would be pretty stupid if they were good and had transcendent priority.
Click to expand...
It says foot on kurogane
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Fox
 
McKnightlíght

McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
5,598
Location
"Work"
NNID
EvanMcKnight
3DS FC
4399-0018-3572
Lavani I like you better as cute anime gorl instead of scary monster gorl.
 
Ffamran

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Rizen said:
It says foot on kurogane
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Fox
Click to expand...
Furil's hitbox thread shows head invincibility and sixriver's page for Fox says head as well. Unfortunately, I don't know how to read where invincibility and such on MasterCore, so there's that. Knowing that stuff has been carried over despite issues, I wouldn't doubt the developers just carried over head invincibility for Fox's Up Smash despite that not being as useful as head and upper body or lower body. If Fox's head was as big as Mario's, then sure, maybe it would be useful, but it's not. It's kind of tiny and his Up Smash is a backflip not a headbutt.
 
Lavani

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
McKnightlight said:
Lavani I like you better as cute anime gorl instead of scary monster gorl.
Click to expand...
That's unfortunate.

Ffamran said:
Furil's hitbox thread shows head invincibility and sixriver's page for Fox says head as well. Unfortunately, I don't know how to read where invincibility and such on MasterCore, so there's that. Knowing that stuff has been carried over despite issues, I wouldn't doubt the developers just carried over head invincibility for Fox's Up Smash despite that not being as useful as head and upper body or lower body. If Fox's head was as big as Mario's, then sure, maybe it would be useful, but it's not. It's kind of tiny and his Up Smash is a backflip not a headbutt.
Click to expand...
Bone 0x13 has the intangibility, only other mention of that bone in the animcmd scripts is for a hitbox placement on Twisting Fox, which would suggest head.

0x13 is head for Mario and Rosalina too, for what that's worth.

I guess the intent with head invuln on Fox usmash is to let him low profile during startup rather than have a disjointed attack.
 
Ffamran

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Lavani said:
I guess the intent with head invuln on Fox usmash is to let him low profile during startup rather than have a disjointed attack.
Click to expand...
Could have just went all the way with upper body too... Fox doesn't crouch low enough compared to a flash kick from Guile unless he's charging which only happens after Brawl as Melee Fox just stood there. Head and upper body would have ensured protection while not making the hit be stupid. Mii Brawler and Yoshi could have had that too instead of foot invincibility. Kirby's "body" being a head wouldn't work, so it would have to be foot.

Speaking of a disjointed attack, meanwhile, Falco's Up Smash. It's really stupid.

The placement makes sense since Falco's mostly upside down, but it's invincible for all of its 14 active frames. Not as strong as Fox, Kirby, or Yoshi, but it's kind of insane. Its invincibility and active frames come close to breaking it which shouldn't be a surprise considering it's Falco. I think head and upper body invincible from frames 1-7 and maybe making it -- maybe just the first hit -- recoiless might have worked better. Upper body is protected since he starts by standing and twisting to a low profile and the hits can be negated, but still continue rather than being this dome of invincibility.

Up Smash functioning as basically Wolf's, but with 8 more total active frames and no frame gaps post-patch is weird. Falco's is faster (7), but has higher recovery (30) while Wolf's is slower (13), but has lower recovery (22). Falco's started out weaker, but now it's as strong as Wolf's while being invincible. If Wolf was ported over and Up Smash was unchanged, compared to Falco's it's only got slightly more horizontal range, slightly higher total damage (18% total), and 8 less recovery frames. Falco's would trump it in speed, safety, and actives while matching it in damage and KO power. The developers would have done something, but it's just doesn't sit right knowing that with Wolf not returning, some of his stuff was cannibalized and given to Falco. Even if Wolf never returned, it doesn't feel right. Yes, other games do this too, but at least take a different spin on it than "same function, but pretty much better in every way" or "we just ripped this animation from a character, but it's 'totally' a different move".

One thing I realized is that except for Yoshi, none of the flip kick Up Smashes have anyone leaping up diagonally or jumping up like in other games or like Mega Man's Mega Upper Utilt. Could have just did that for Falco. At this point, his Up Smash compared to the others is anti-air the move. Okay, why not have Falco leap up diagonally. Pretty much how like flash kicks work in KoF and SF. Same startup, same recovery, less active frames, different invincibility placement, and maybe it's a single-hit or a double-hit that happens in quick succession with a late hit. Justified lower damage and KO power by its vertical range and stronger anti-air capability to the others.
 
Last edited:
EODM07

EODM07

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
6,835
Location
"That's Classified" - Mikuru
NNID
EODM07
3DS FC
3823-9238-9070
Morning girls. How's everyone doing? :4zelda:

Finally got to cleaning my room today, feels good to finally get rid of all of that dust and dirt.
Also, for those who have Spirit of Justice. The first DLC episode is out called "Phoenix Wright: Asinine Attorney". It costs about £3.59/$3.99/€3.99, and you'll get a free 3DS Theme included. Next week we'll get "Apollo Justice: Asinine Attorney" and finally the week after, we'll get "Turnabout Time Travel". :yeahboi:

 
ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

❤ ~
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
10,010
Location
Under your skirt
NNID
kyo.pamyu.pamyu
3DS FC
4785-5700-5699
Switch FC
SW 3264 5694 6605
I love Pokémon, but Pokémon doesn't love me back </3.
Pokémon GO just struck my phone as "incompatible" (it might be thinking it is rooted, but it has to be a false positive, I've never messed with that).
:196:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom