Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Deleted member]

Well, the game says he's already perfect.

the game also has really ****ty tips.

"lucas' up smash hits opponents hanging on the ledge!"
"you should only hit people with the first hit of samus' jab"

 

[Rickster]

"You can blow up Din's Fire by letting go of the the button!!1!"

All of Zelda's tips are useless except the Phantom health one and the Farore's following walls one.

a'ight lessss gooooo

Dedede's biggest flaw is that almost everything he has actively works against him. He has some of the outright worst mobility in the game (one of the slowest dash speeds, the slowest air speed in the game which got nerfed in 1.1.4), poor frame data, and his fastfall speed (2nd fastest in the game) despite it assisting him in giving him the best vertical endurance in the game, compounds him by making him probably the easiest character in the game to combo due to his large size and heavy weight, making it very difficult to escape juggles in general. He has the problem among heavies of struggling to land, but he does have multijumps to somewhat help him in that regard.

Dedede's neutral is well... really bad. It's bottom 5 if I had somebody to ask. His complete lack of burst mobility options (even though has worse range and is slower than him, he has dash attack, wizkick and flame choke to help all give him better options in neutral and reach the opponent better than Dedede can, and generally a higher damage output and reward on hit) means he has a hard time approaching, especially with his horrible air mobility. Even though his range is threatening at first glance, the only real solid poke he has in neutral is ftilt. Dedede is one of the most unsafe on shield characters in the game. Unless he lands a properly spaced bair or an fsmash on shield, he's going to suffer varying degrees of punishment for it. Some of his moves have wonky hitboxes. Up smash, forward air and back air all have hitboxes that don't match the animation, and dtilt lacks a hitbox in front of him.

Unlike every other heavy, he actually struggles taking off stocks due to his lack of kill confirms or a safe, fast KO move. His down throw led into up air at KO percents pre-1.0.4, but it was removed. Let me put this in perspective for KO confirms for each superheavy:

• 's safe KO options are bair, dsmash, and back throw. Kill confirm? Ding-dong.
  
• 's safe KO options are ftilt, dtilt or fthrow/bhrow. Utilt at high percents. Kill confirm? Shellshock.
  
• 's safe KO options are bair and ftilt and dtilt (I don't really play Ganon so somebody please clear this up). Kill confirm? Sour dash attack into up air.
  
• 's safe KO options are ftilt, bair and usmash. Doesn't have a kill confirm, but dthrow -> uair has a tight window and he has the second-strongest up throw in the game.
  
• Meanwhile, 's fthrow and bthrow cannot kill until near 200% unless you got Rage or if your opponent has **** DI or if they have light weight. Down smash is unsafe on shield, and bair has a good amount of startup even if it ACs out of a shorthop. Up smash, dash attack and forward smash are laggy as hell, and none of his tilts kill except up tilt until around 160-170%.

Remember when I talked about Dedede's tools and character build working against him? I forgot to talk about Gordos. The idea behind them is smart. A projectile that can be used for stage control, setting up combos and KOing at higher percents. Them being able to be reflected isn't a bad idea either, but good lord it was executed terribly. 2% is far too low of a threshold for them to be knocked back. The main issue is that with Gordo-pong, the opponent doesn't have to commit at all and Dedede is punished severely for using his only theoretical option for making opponents approach him. Therefore he lacks any solid mixups to use against opponents, and Inhale's so laggy and the windbox is so small that he can be punished by somebody jumping over him and hitting him even if he makes the right read.

Dedede has little to counteract very patient, defensive or lame play, ESPECIALLY if the opponent actually knows the matchup. Dedede definitely has a girth (ohoho) of high level results, 25th at BEAST 6, 49th at G3, 33rd at Dismantle 2, 17th at Midwest Mayhem, 17th at Paragon LA 2015, but they can all for the most part be attributed to most people not having any damn idea how to fight this character. Dedede may be popular in lower levels of play, but at mid to high level he's a rare character to face in bracket especially if it's a dedicated main on the level of Big D.

tl;dr Dedede is bad because of a near nonexistent approach and a poor neutral, movement options, frame data, safety on shield and projectile, along with being easy to lame out. Pretty much the only reason he gets any success in competitive play is because of large amounts of MU inexperience among top players. FullMoon and many other people on these boards have had a scenario where their scene has a really good Dedede, they run into them for the first time and get messed up, then they learn the matchup and end up bopping them. It's true.

That last part is basically me but I haven't played the guy again, so I'd probably still get destroyed, lol.

Not really related to DDD'd viability, but would you like to play sometime? I have little experience against him and would like to learn the MU better.

 

[FullMoon]

I think the thing that gets people when they fight Dedede is that they needlessly challenge him while he's floating in the air which allows him to weave out of the way and punish with a B-Air or something. I know I was guilty of that at least.

If you just wait until Dedede has to land and catch his landing while exploiting him while he's on the ground, there's not really much he can do. At least not against Greninja.

(5:27 was just the most stupid death ever by the way lol)

 

[Berserker.]

a'ight lessss gooooo

Dedede's biggest flaw is that almost everything he has actively works against him. He has some of the outright worst mobility in the game (one of the slowest dash speeds, the slowest air speed in the game which got nerfed in 1.1.4), poor frame data, and his fastfall speed (2nd fastest in the game) despite it assisting him in giving him the best vertical endurance in the game, compounds him by making him probably the easiest character in the game to combo due to his large size and heavy weight, making it very difficult to escape juggles in general. He has the problem among heavies of struggling to land, but he does have multijumps to somewhat help him in that regard.

Dedede's neutral is well... really bad. It's bottom 5 if I had somebody to ask. His complete lack of burst mobility options (even though has worse range and is slower than him, he has dash attack, wizkick and flame choke to help all give him better options in neutral and reach the opponent better than Dedede can, and generally a higher damage output and reward on hit) means he has a hard time approaching, especially with his horrible air mobility. Even though his range is threatening at first glance, the only real solid poke he has in neutral is ftilt. Dedede is one of the most unsafe on shield characters in the game. Unless he lands a properly spaced bair or an fsmash on shield, he's going to suffer varying degrees of punishment for it. Some of his moves have wonky hitboxes. Up smash, forward air and back air all have hitboxes that don't match the animation, and dtilt lacks a hitbox in front of him.

Unlike every other heavy, he actually struggles taking off stocks due to his lack of kill confirms or a safe, fast KO move. His down throw led into up air at KO percents pre-1.0.4, but it was removed. Let me put this in perspective for KO confirms for each superheavy:

• 's safe KO options are bair, dsmash, and back throw. Kill confirm? Ding-dong.
  
• 's safe KO options are ftilt, dtilt or fthrow/bhrow. Utilt at high percents. Kill confirm? Shellshock.
  
• 's safe KO options are bair and ftilt and dtilt (I don't really play Ganon so somebody please clear this up). Kill confirm? Sour dash attack into up air.
  
• 's safe KO options are ftilt, bair and usmash. Doesn't have a kill confirm, but dthrow -> uair has a tight window and he has the second-strongest up throw in the game.
  
• Meanwhile, 's fthrow and bthrow cannot kill until near 200% unless you got Rage or if your opponent has **** DI or if they have light weight. Down smash is unsafe on shield, and bair has a good amount of startup even if it ACs out of a shorthop. Up smash, dash attack and forward smash are laggy as hell, and none of his tilts kill except up tilt until around 160-170%.

Remember when I talked about Dedede's tools and character build working against him? I forgot to talk about Gordos. The idea behind them is smart. A projectile that can be used for stage control, setting up combos and KOing at higher percents. Them being able to be reflected isn't a bad idea either, but good lord it was executed terribly. 2% is far too low of a threshold for them to be knocked back. The main issue is that with Gordo-pong, the opponent doesn't have to commit at all and Dedede is punished severely for using his only theoretical option for making opponents approach him. Therefore he lacks any solid mixups to use against opponents, and Inhale's so laggy and the windbox is so small that he can be punished by somebody jumping over him and hitting him even if he makes the right read.

Dedede has little to counteract very patient, defensive or lame play, ESPECIALLY if the opponent actually knows the matchup. Dedede definitely has a girth (ohoho) of high level results, 25th at BEAST 6, 49th at G3, 33rd at Dismantle 2, 17th at Midwest Mayhem, 17th at Paragon LA 2015, but they can all for the most part be attributed to most people not having any damn idea how to fight this character. Dedede may be popular in lower levels of play, but at mid to high level he's a rare character to face in bracket especially if it's a dedicated main on the level of Big D.

tl;dr Dedede is bad because of a near nonexistent approach and a poor neutral, movement options, frame data, safety on shield and projectile, along with being easy to lame out. Pretty much the only reason he gets any success in competitive play is because of large amounts of MU inexperience among top players. FullMoon and many other people on these boards have had a scenario where their scene has a really good Dedede, they run into them for the first time and get messed up, then they learn the matchup and end up bopping them. It's true.

interesting

you bring up good points about d3 being ****

so unlike 3/4 of the community in swf, i'll take your word for it since you're the d3 main

Also, holy **** what the **** is this- http://oddshot.tv/shot/tourneylocator-2016040732432782

 

[Deleted member]

"You can blow up Din's Fire by letting go of the the button!!1!"

All of Zelda's tips are useless except the Phantom health one and the Farore's following walls one.

That last part is basically me but I haven't played the guy again, so I'd probably still get destroyed, lol.

Not really related to DDD'd viability, but would you like to play sometime? I have little experience against him and would like to learn the MU better.

I'm actually scared to fight Zelda after @Macchiato tore me a new one LOL.

Wouldn't mind fighting you sometime, even though my Dedede is pretty rusty since I haven't played him in a couple months. We'll see how it goes!

 

[FullMoon]

interesting

you bring up good points about d3 being ****

so unlike 3/4 of the community in swf, i'll take your word for it since you're the d3 main

Also, holy **** what the **** is this- http://oddshot.tv/shot/tourneylocator-2016040732432782

That was the basic Greninja footstool combo, although it looks like he missed the sweespot Up-Smash, which worked in his favor anyway

In other words, just Greninja things =V

 

[Rickster]

I'm actually scared to fight Zelda after @Macchiato tore me a new one LOL.

Wouldn't mind fighting you sometime, even though my Dedede is pretty rusty since I haven't played him in a couple months. We'll see how it goes!

Just spam Gordos and Fsmash me when I'm cornered. Or charge the hammer because I'll run into it 50% if the time.

 

[EODM07]

On the plus side @Feelicks. At least the game was right on Dedede being already perfect.

And I've fought only about two Dededes. Yours and a friend that me and TTTTTsd know.

I do not count For Glory, because one I fought on that was god awful, all he did was spam Side B.

 

[LonkQ]

I need a battle with one of you guys one day. Too much FG poisons a person.

 

[Deleted member]

I need a battle with one of you guys one day. Too much FG poisons a person.

>sees that you main roy

THAT BOY IS MY ENEMY. MM ME IN CLUB PENGUIN

 

[EODM07]

I need a battle with one of you guys one day. Too much FG poisons a person.

I'd be down for that, but just be prepared for some lag IF we do have a few games on of these days. :V

 

[Jestar]

I don't even remember a silver wind tbh.

Basically he made a post in this thread and the thread went to hell real fast.
http://smashboards.com/threads/is-zelda-still-considered-the-worst.431615/page-3#post-21029261

 

[LonkQ]

You think you're cool enough to extinguish my flames?

 

[Deleted member]

You think you're cool enough to extinguish my flames?

Cloud is cool enough to extinguish any flames.

 

[LonkQ]

Cloud is cool enough to extinguish any flames.

Rain on my parade if you dare. You won't beat me with that silly hair.

 

[FullMoon]

I have yet to play with a bunch of people here =V

 

[Deleted member]

Rain on my parade if you dare. You won't beat me with that silly hair.

u wot m8?

i'll style on you so hard like I'm Abate.

(i'm trying to rhyme)

 

[Y2Kay]

I have yet to play with a bunch of people here =V

One day we'll fight......one day.

 

[Lil Puddin]

This is one of the very few pictures featuring Rozalyndor that is actually good. Replacing her with a superior option, like S-Tier Bannable Zeldoo would be even better.

Nah, I'm good.

And if you were going to post a picture of Sans and Papyrus being cute you could've gone with this instead =V

Are my manly arms too intimitating for you to be hugged by, onee-chan??? Not chibi enough. Also that bone against bone rubbing* must make an awful sounding noise.

Spoiler: *

"ImSOsorry." ~ Corrin 2016

Nope, something better.

B-but sis! Scientifically, nothing is superior to ZeldamnGorl.

I can't keep silent any more.

The buffs were just too much. And this grab range buff?

Spoiler: SMGDH Sakurai

How can any of you justify this. Shame on you for abusing this tier Goddess.

I can never see those media thingies you post. Prolly cause my only Interwebs is through my phone? :C

 

[Cress!]

>sees that you main roy

THAT BOY IS MY ENEMY. MM ME IN CLUB PENGUIN

Club Penguin raid when

 

[Berserker.]

we should all make club penguin accounts

gonna be a fun time~

unless you guys wanna tolerate runescape. lol (i used to play runescape a lot though... when i was 8 years old)

 

[Trieste SP]

B-but sis! Scientifically, nothing is superior to ZeldamnGorl.

Sis.. I don't know how to respond to this. So have this pic instead.

Spoiler

 

[TTTTTsd]

I have yet to play with a bunch of people here =V

Hey whenever you wanna try I'm down! My net recently got much better thanks to router moving (went from good to GREAT) so I'm more than happy to carry

 

[FullMoon]

By the way, I'm reminded now that I forgot to tell you gurls the story behind my team-up for the doubles tournament.

The Dedede main that was my partner, like me, carried around a plush of his character around as a good luck charm. He then showed up in the discord saying that he wasn't feeling like taking part in the tournament and I jokingly told him that we could partner up and call the team "Plush Fighters" just for silliness and he loved the idea even though I meant it as a joke.

Fast forward later, he all of sudden told me that he registered me for the doubles tournament and paid my registration for me. So basically at that point I couldn't even refuse anymore, not that I really minded what he did.

Then later I ended up going with Zelda, which would break the team theme since I don't have a Zelda plush. But that's okay, because he brought me a Zelda plush just for the tournament. Note that he didn't give it to me, he just brought it to keep the theme going.

This person is just unreal.

Hey whenever you wanna try I'm down! My net recently got much better thanks to router moving (went from good to GREAT) so I'm more than happy to carry

Sure, I'm not really doing anything right now so if you feel up to it we can play.

 

[TTTTTsd]

By the way, I'm reminded now that I forgot to tell you gurls the story behind my team-up for the doubles tournament.

The Dedede main that was my partner, like me, carried around a plush of his character around as a good luck charm. He then showed up in the discord saying that he wasn't feeling like taking part in the tournament and I jokingly told him that we could partner up and call the team "Plush Fighters" just for silliness and he loved the idea even though I meant it as a joke.

Fast forward later, he all of sudden told me that he registered me for the doubles tournament and paid my registration for me. So basically at that point I couldn't even refuse anymore, not that I really minded what he did.

Then later I ended up going with Zelda, which would break the team theme since I don't have a Zelda plush. But that's okay, because he brought me a Zelda plush just for the tournament. Note that he didn't give it to me, he just brought it to keep the theme going.

This person is just unreal.



Sure, I'm not really doing anything right now so if you feel up to it we can play.

Oh, ok! Goodness you're forward! Add my NNID in my profile and host a room, I'll hop in.

 

[FullMoon]

Oh, ok! Goodness you're forward! Add my NNID in my profile and host a room, I'll hop in.

Just a moment, I got a call from a family member just now that I need to deal with lol

 

[Baskerville]

Honestly I thought you lot were talking about when you mentioned Club Penguin.

 

[Jestar]

unless you guys wanna tolerate runescape. lol (i used to play runescape a lot though... when i was 8 years old)

I used to play it a ton too with friends way back in 2007. Good times actually. Probably the best moment was when we did a quest and one of my friends died and everybody stole his stuff lol! We were all in the same room so watching/hearing him rage as everyone took his stuff was hilarious lol. I even remember the name one of my friends used: "swamprat99". Got no idea how he came up with it, but I thought it was pretty cool.

Sis.. I don't know how to respond to this. So have this pic instead.

Spoiler

Wow this is great! I'd pay good money to get my hands on this. Would look nice next to my Mario plush.

 

[Berserker.]

I used to play it a ton too with friends way back in 2007. Good times actually. Probably the best moment was when we did a quest and one of my friends died and everybody stole his stuff lol! We were all in the same room so watching/hearing him rage as everyone took his stuff was hilarious lol. I even remember the name one of my friends used: "swamprat99". Got no idea how he came up with it, but I thought it was pretty cool.

I remember doing the Dragon Slayer quest really well for certain reasons. Lol I went there and well, I was fighting Elvarg THEN MY INTERNET ****ED ME OVER then I DC'd. Lol. I reconnected and found myself at Lumbridge with all my items lost and I was like, "****"

 

[EODM07]

I've managed to clear one of the Challenge Stages. And clearing one gives you character exclusive equipment.

Clearing "The Ancient Mechon" earns you Dystopia and Secret White Underwear for KOS-MOS and Fiora. (I still think the Ancient Mechon is the Ancient Daedala. :V)

Next is Cyberspace Dungeon, so I'm guessing that'll give me exclusive equipment for X and Zero.

 

[Jestar]

I remember doing the Dragon Slayer quest really well for certain reasons. Lol I went there and well, I was fighting Elvarg THEN MY INTERNET ****ED ME OVER then I DC'd. Lol. I reconnected and found myself at Lumbridge with all my items lost and I was like, "****"

I got disconnected a couple times too on occasion. Luckily I never lost anything too powerful but it still sucked anyway. The worst time was when I did a rather difficult quest (can't remember what it was) with friends and right before we finished it, BOOM, got sent to the log on screen. I tried to meet up with them again and as soon as I did, BOOM kicked off again. Tried a a third time and 10 seconds later BOOM knocked off again. Gave up after that.

Only good thing to come out of that was at the beginning there was over 40 steel swords? Whatever the mid tier weapon in power was at the time in the shop at Lumbridge which made them real cheap. Bought one as fast as I could. At the time buying one at full price would've meant tons of gold grinding so I got real lucky there. It made up for getting trolled by my internet 3 times over and I felt rather powerful having such a strong weapon that most people at my level at the time could only dream of having.

 

[FullMoon]

Sorry TTTTTsd family calls again lol

Edit: Sorry man, things came up just as we began playing and I'm not sure if I'll be able to keep playing. Sorry for making you wait so much, your Cloud is really nice though!

 

[TTTTTsd]

Sorry TTTTTsd family calls again lol

Edit: Sorry man, things came up just as we began playing and I'm not sure if I'll be able to keep playing. Sorry for making you wait so much, your Cloud is really nice though!

Ah....thanks! I have no idea wtf I'm doing in the Greninja MU (yours is pretty nice!) so I default to Mario/Doc in times like those. Greninja is very....different to play against. His SH and neutral are kinda weird (I'm not used to dealing with actual good fireballs, barely anyone in this game has those.). Just tag me or message me if you have time and we can start playing again.

 

[FullMoon]

Ah....thanks! I have no idea wtf I'm doing in the Greninja MU (yours is pretty nice!) so I default to Mario/Doc in times like those. Greninja is very....different to play against. His SH and neutral are kinda weird (I'm not used to dealing with actual good fireballs, barely anyone in this game has those.). Just tag me or message me if you have time and we can start playing again.

The only thing I can say is don't airdodge D-Throw because the angle it sends you at is just perfect for traps, like that one game where I finished you with an airdodge bait into D-Smash.

And it was very fun to drop Cloud into the abyss with water =V

 

[EODM07]

The only thing I can say is don't airdodge D-Throw because the angle it sends you at is just perfect for traps, like that one game where I finished you with an airdodge bait into D-Smash.

And it was very fun to drop Cloud into the abyss with water =V

Well, you've certainly rained on his parade.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Honestly I feel like I was trying too hard to recover with Cloud. I should've just followed my airdodge into Up+B flowchart since that really mitigates windbox and pushbox stupidity. Derp.

On the bright side at least you now understand what it's like to get hit by like 30000 Mario Utilts in a row. (Why is Mario my most consistently good character aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)

 

[Lavani]

(Why is Mario my most consistently good character aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)

Because utilting 30000 times in a row is consistent.

 

[FullMoon]

Honestly I feel like I was trying too hard to recover with Cloud. I should've just followed my airdodge into Up+B flowchart since that really mitigates windbox and pushbox stupidity. Derp.

On the bright side at least you now understand what it's like to get hit by like 30000 Mario Utilts in a row. (Why is Mario my most consistently good character aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)

As if I wasn't used to up-tilt chains already lol

In our last match where you played Mario, just as I lost my first stock my cousin was calling me on the phone again so if you noticed my performance drop significantly, that's why

Also in the first match I forgot to turn tap jump off lol

 

[TTTTTsd]

As if I wasn't used to up-tilt chains already lol

In our last match where you played Mario, just as I lost my first stock my cousin was calling me on the phone again so if you noticed my performance drop significantly, that's why

Also in the first match I forgot to turn tap jump off lol

I was wondering why the legendary "Fireball gimp" went down in that match. LOL.

I'm also used to 3 stock in friendlies but I adapted pretty quick. Cloud is dumb enough to make it work and make every game close winky face

 

[Rizen]

I'm busy this week but I should be able to play next week. I might be able to play at night or in the morning too.