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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Kofu

Kofu

Smash Master
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The caffeine-free state
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I play at Gold Ike (I think it's the second palette)

Oh Lavani Lavani I meant to tag you in the tether grab post really tiny but I put Bowser in the list because I want to see the pivot grab range gif again
 
Macchiato

Macchiato

Smash Hero
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Macchiatooo
Suicidal_Donuts said:
Tekken 7: How much longer for consoles, Harada? Where's my Kunimitsu? Also, stages are very, very bland and uninteresting, as are most the new characters. Everything else seems pretty nice.
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Kunimitsu isn't coming back. She's dead if you looked at the ending from the last canon game she was in. Also how can you call Lucky Chloe boring?

SoulCalibur: Where's VI?
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4 Year's ago it was announced that they were in developement hell and nothing has announced so most likely dead. Game's over
 
Lavani

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Kofu said:
Also you saying "ok" like that and me calling you sensei officially makes you Saitama and me Genos
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This makes me a little unsure of the whole weeaboo-sensei thing because I have no idea what you just said
 
Lavani

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
oh

well that clears up the "ok" avatar one of the moderators that post in CCI used to have
 
McKnightlíght

McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
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"Work"
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4399-0018-3572
Looks like clean math to me!


No it doesn't it looks horribly wrong.
 
Lorde

Lorde

Let 'em talk
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4,479
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Ardnaxela
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i'm clicking the link you quoted and it works

wow after all that abuse, i'll be bringing you to hr

asshole
 
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MOI-ARI

MOI-ARI

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
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912
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Up yours, kid.
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TAISH0U
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GUYS. ELLEN LIED. THAT *****.
image.png


I FEEL SO BETRAYED. SO BETRAYED THAT I FORGOT TO VOTE IN THE POLL...
 
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Suicidal_Donuts

Suicidal_Donuts

Smash Ace
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The Velvet Room
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Macchiato said:
Kunimitsu isn't coming back. She's dead if you looked at the ending from the last canon game she was in. Also how can you call Lucky Chloe boring?
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Lucky Chloe is very boring and horridly designed. It's as if she was a bad knock off of Marie Rose from DOA who was already a (not bad) knock off of Lili. That outfit too is... Gross. We must just have different tastes.
Also, Kunimitsu is alive if you looked at the last Canon ending she had. She may not be associated with or relevant to the Tekken tournament anymore, but she's certainly not confirmed or thought to be dead.

4 Years ago it was announced that they were in developement hell and nothing has announced so most likely dead. Game's over
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Development hell doesn't always mean a game is dead. Recently they've run polls themselves asking for people's favorite SoulCalibur characters, so clearly it's still a thought in their mind which may let us infer that they're working something out. They're not going to just completely drop a game like SoulCalibur. Final Fantasy XV was in development hell, that's finally coming out, Duke Nukem Forever was in development hell, that (unfortunately) released. Development hell doesn't always mean a game has been terminated, but simply that it will require a reform within the team working on it to come to light.
 
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LonkQ

LonkQ

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Joined
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Virginia
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Ammoro
I'm just gonna say that you should use Gold Ike. Not all the time. But when you're down a couple games and you need a comeback. You need to go Super Saiyan.
 
McKnightlíght

McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
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LonkQ said:
I'm just gonna say that you should use Gold Ike. Not all the time. But when you're down a couple games and you need a comeback. You need to go Super Saiyan.
Click to expand...
*pulls out my pocket Cloud*
 
McKnightlíght

McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
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Sidebar: Does Smashboards still have ads?



MOI-ARI said:
WHATSFSYJJHSF!?

HER TOO?!
There is only one logical explanation....
View attachment 96080
*Inception fog horn thing blares loudly*

The workings of the Illuminatri-force, obviously.
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IT MAKES SENSE IT MAKES SENSE THE 3 GODDESSEST


Ellen Oprah and Zelda were the 3 goddessesses and they all lied! SHOCKING!
 
Rizen

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,986
Furret said:
frame 5 jab would be terrible to play against as any character that had trouble with link before
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Link wins some but he doesn't have any large advantaged MU. Link's frame 7 jab (or rather fastest ground attack) is ridiculous for any character. Some characters have a quick Dtilt or DA to compensate :4palutena::4zelda::4dedede::4megaman:. Also zoning characters with good reach like :4cloud::4pit: have frame 4 or 5 respectively jabs. :4link: has an unnecessarily slow jab that doesn't cancel into anything guaranteed and the full combo only does 10%.
Antonykun said:
*btw i can't beleive i'm humoring this*
larger endlag you basically only have enough time for a quick punish compared to the fact that she can kill you sub 100% for landing witch time. Her disadvantage would still be top percentile just because witch twist + downwards afterburner is so good

yo someone post something so i can talk about balance
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The thing about bat within is it is used by dodging, which is the fastest action out of stun. This really screws over 50/50s and every followup that isn't 100% guaranteed to hit before the stun wears off. For example :4link: can Dthrow>Uair and even though it can be dodged by 1 or 2 frames, the Uair outlasts it and hits with the weaker part. Long duration punishing moves don't work vs Mayonetta.
Edit, someone posted this and GimR makes some really good points about Mayo's bat within not being as good as it 1st seems. Witch time still looks absurd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSM7y9gGc4k&feature=youtu.be
Antonykun said:
just for the record the best way to buff a character is to increase their design intended strengths rather than to lower their weaknesses.
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This can work but not always. :4ganondorf: is the perfect example, strong as hell, heavy, good reach but good luck hitting a skilled :4sheik:
 
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Kofu

Kofu

Smash Master
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Since this may be the last balance patch and we're talking about character balance this looks like a good time to finally put my thoughts together on Game & Watch's moveset. I'd honestly want to tweak just about all of Game & Watch's moves to buff him. Not a lot for most, the majority would be quality-of life changes. I'll divide the buffs into major changes (!), functionality tweaks (QoL), and changes that would be 99% for my gratification (IMO). Here, see what y'all think (commas indicate multiple desired tweaks, slashes indicate buff options, parentheses indicate unnecessary tweak):

Jab | shorten transition from jab 1 to rapid jab
Dash Attack | none/increase damage (backward launch angle)
FTilt | increase damage/0 degree launch angle
UTilt | hitbox repositioning to pick up foes in front of him, change first hit to weighted knockback
DTilt | remove grounded restriction on main hitbox, reduce cooldown
FSmash | add lingering hitboxes
USmash | increase hitbox size
DSmash | none/sharpen sourspot angle
FThrow/BThrow | increase damage
UThrow | lower BKB (increase KBG to kill throw levels)
DThrow | none/lower KBG
NAir | add low jump autocancel
FAir | increase damage/add low jump autocancel
BAir | increase damage/change landing hitbox launch angle
UAir | change first hit to weighted knockback
DAir | increase damage, increase meteor frames, (increase hitbox size, remove fast fall effect/add slow fall option)
Chef | none/shorten startup
Judge | none/reduce damage to self on 1
Fire | none/increase initial hitbox size
Oil Panic | reduce forced collection animation after levels 1 and 2

If you want to read my thesis you can read my thoughts (something of a stream of consciousness) on each of my proposed buffs.

  • Jab (QoL): reduce the time between jab 1 and the rapid jab so people can't escape before the full combo (like they did for Diddy/Ike). If they want to reduce jab 1's time between it and when I can perform any other action I'd take it, easier grabs/DTilts.
  • Dash Attack (QoL/IMO): this move is already really good and functional and doesn't need tweaks. That said, I wouldn't mind a damage or knockback buff so it could KO better. I'd also personally like it if it sent people backward like it did in Brawl. But that's just my opinion.
  • FTilt (QoL): this move is... decent? It's not great, slower than both jab and DTilt but more damaging and lingering, but dash attack beats it speed, hitbox duration, and matches it or beats it in damage. I'd have it do more damage to give it more of a purpose (though since DTilt can already kill at the ledge and is faster it might still be redundant, lol). For kicks, its angle could be changed to 0 degrees like the chairs in the Flat Zone levels do, that would make it unique for sure.
  • UTilt (!): hoo boy, one of his two worst normals. UTilt does good damage (7% per hit with two hits) and is decently fast at frame 10. Unfortunately getting both hits to connect is a pain as they both scale with damage. It's really only ever used in DThrow combos to get some extra damage in before they're sent into the air, but even then it's unreliable and sometimes just going for the NAir or UAir (both of which outdamage it) is easier and more reliable. Its biggest flaw is that it doesn't really hit in front of Game & Watch. Adjusting the hitboxes so they hit in front of him and could actually pick characters up that aren't already on top of him would be the best bet. Making the first hit weight-based to better link into the second would be nice, too.
  • DTilt (QoL): one of the weirdest changes from Brawl was a windbox added to DTilt that only affects aerial opponents (in return the main hitbox only hits grounded foes). It's largely gimmicky but can be used to disrupt certain special attacks, aerial approaches, and projectiles. When the game released, the main hitbox of the move did a pathetic amount of knockback and was easily punishable. They fixed that with some buffs to BKB/KBG and now it's fine on hit and can even kill at high percents. The two changes I would make would be to remove the ground-only restriction from the main hitbox and shave five or so frames off its endlag which would bring it to 34 frames total (I'm not asking for Brawl's 25-frame move lol).
  • FSmash (QoL/IMO): Some Game & Watch players don't like this attack but I've found uses for it. It's a massive disjoint, as the hitbox extends slightly in front of the torch, and thus his longest grounded horizontal attack (BAir may beat it overall). It's also his most powerful smash by a small margin when sweetspotted. My main beef with the move is that it lost its lingering hitboxes from Brawl which, you know, made sense, as he's holding a burning torch out. That should hurt when you run into it. Return it and I'd be satisfied, more or less.
  • USmash (QoL): You wouldn't think that a frame 24 smash attack would be spammable, but this move easily makes Game & Watch's top five moves. It mainly has to do with his head being entirely invulnerable to enemy attacks from frame 4 through when the hitboxes appear, allowing him to tank enemy attacks (most notably aerials) and retaliate. Having only 13 frames of cooldown is pretty nice, too. It functions basically perfectly. I'd only increase the hitbox sizes slightly so he can better hit opponents facing behind him, as it'll occasionally whiff if they're not right on top of his head.
  • DSmash (QoL): I don't use it a whole lot, but it's one frame shorter than USmash and is the only one of his smashes that kept its lingering frames from Brawl (hitboxes last for four frames instead of two). Main thing I'd do would be to sharpen the angle the sourspot sends people from 20 degrees to 10 to make for better techchases. I guess you could also have the hitboxes on the hammerheads extend slightly further out; they appear to have slightly better reach in the 3DS version than the Wii U version (which is probably just a graphical change but IDC).
  • FThrow/BThrow (QoL): these throws are literally identical which is why I'm grouping them together. They do what they're supposed to do; that is, give positional advantage. They're only really used at high percents once DThrow stops doing anything. Might as well increase their damage a bit.
  • UThrow (QoL/!): UThrow is mostly outclassed by DThrow except at very low percents where nothing true combos out of the latter and it's safer to UThrow and go for the Fire read. Giving it marginally lower BKB would help with this. Some have also suggested making it a kill throw, which I wouldn't be opposed to, but I don't think it's something he needs.
  • DThrow (QoL): This throw is already really good for Game & Watch and would probably be absolutely absurd on a character with better frame data and jumps. Only thing to make it better would be to lower its KBG so it can combo longer, but it's not essential.
  • NAir (QoL): this was probably his best aerial in Brawl, for one because it was hard to SDI (unlike BAir) and autocancelled from a low jump (also unlike BAir). That's really all I'd want for the move to gain. It doesn't need earlier IASA like Brawl, just let it autocancel from a low jump again. The final hit would be excellent for setting up other attacks and could give him some much-needed shield pressure.
  • FAir (QoL): FAir lost significant power from Brawl but it's understandable. What's not understandable is how weak (in knockback) the strong hit is. Unless the opponent is already offstage or right at the stage's edge, it probably won't KO. I suggest buffing the base damage from 11.5 to 13 to help with this (and maybe buff the weak hit form 6 to 7, don't really care). It would also help him to start getting followups from it at lower percents. My dream for FAir would to let it low jump autocancel but honestly, a damage buff and autocancel seem mutually exclusive and I feel like the damage buff fits better in Game & Watch's design.
  • BAir (QoL): another of his aerials gutted from Brawl, BAir was the famed noob/low tier-killing move. It went from 15 damage in five hits to 9 in four. Again, a justifiable change. The move is still excellent for edgeguarding and the aerial final hit launches foes at a delicious angle for followups. I'd like for the landing hit to launch at the same angle as the aerial version does and/or for it to do a little more damage. But it's quite useful as it is.
  • UAir (QoL): NAir and UAir still do their Brawl damage (16% and 17% respectively), probably because they're multihits and thus don't always do their full damage. UAir has a bigger problem with linking than it should, though, since the first hit (inexplicably) has knockback growth. Why it just doesn't do weight-based knockback is beyond me, but it makes killing with the move a pain at times. I guess the KBG has its uses for setting up other attacks if you land with the first hit but the move's small hitbox makes that hard. Change the first hit to have weight-based knockback and perhaps increase the move's hitbox sizes.
  • DAir (!): DAir has some problems. It does a decent job at beating other aerials or punishing whiffed ground attacks from above, but its hitbox feels smaller than most other stall-then-fall aerials (found out from a glitch that his body doesn't have a hitbox, at least at first, lol). Its meteor also feels quite hard to land. Sometimes I wonder if it would be better if it functioned like Link's or Cloud's DAir (you could kind of do the reverse in Brawl and slow its falling speed). To better the move, increase the duration of the meteor hitbox and increase the damage on the move overall so it can actually kill(and give him a body hitbox, dangit).
  • Chef (QoL): I don't think there's a whole lot to change here. Looks like the move has been the same since Brawl, probably Melee. Wouldn't mind the startup increasing but it's not essential.
  • Judge (QoL): likewise. You don't want this move to be predictable. But hey, if I'm suggesting changes, lower the damage a 1 deals to him to like, 5%.
  • Fire (QoL): I was about to suggest upping the intangibility frames but then learned they're the same as Brawl's. So, uh, make the inital hitbox bigger so I can make the move a better OoS option.
  • Oil Panic (QoL): gotta say, I love the change to how the move absorbs projectiles in this game. And bombs? Very nice. But assuming the data is the same as Brawl's, he has 72 frames before he can act after absorbing levels one and two. Even with 24 frames of invincibility at the start of that, he's left terribly open (Zelda can punish him for absorbing Din's Fire. DIN'S FIRE). At least cut that down to 60 frames. 48 frames would be my dream.
 
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Antonykun

Antonykun

Hero of Many Faces
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Rizen said:
The thing about bat within is it is used by dodging, which is the fastest action out of stun. This really screws over 50/50s and every followup that isn't 100% guaranteed to hit before the stun wears off. For example :4link: can Dthrow>Uair and even though it can be dodged by 1 or 2 frames, the Uair outlasts it and hits with the weaker part. Long duration punishing moves don't work vs Mayonetta.
Click to expand...
I'm not very experienced in bat within bothing frame traps like that honestly as a mayo "main" I wish she didn't have bat within on her airdodge but it's supposed to be a punish for even dodging in general

This can work but not always. :4ganondorf: is the perfect example, strong as hell, heavy, good reach but good luck hitting a skilled :4sheik:
Click to expand...
addendum: If a character is designed to be very limited buff them in ways that don't interfere with their design like giving dorf armor and making it so wizkick doesn't lose it's hitbox upon clanking
 
TTTTTsd

TTTTTsd

Gordeau Main Paint Drinker
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I think Bayonetta was the first character that I stopped playing after looking at the frame data and specs when it came to airdodges and spotdodge LOL. Like, frame 1 Bat Within? I thought it wasn't crazy at first but now it's like...oh no. I feel like I'm cheatin'. It's just a me thing, I'm proud of her players achieving early results and stuff!

Time to go back to anime and PHDs Hylian Swordsmen
 
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