Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[|ven|]

(ಠ ᴥಠ) sorry I've been MIA has anything exciting happened?

 

[FullMoon]

I'll have to stop now, gonna do some things with my sister.

ggs man

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

I feel like the Lucas-Greninja matchup would be better if Lucas could magnet the shurikens.

Good Games friend!

 

[Berserker.]

Man Greninja just camps Robin so bad lol

Hearing that depresses me simply because Robin is all about camping with projectiles and spacing. Lol. Camper getting outcamped by a character that isn't even all about camping

(ಠ ᴥಠ) sorry I've been MIA has anything exciting happened?

Nothing much. Newcomers here and there

 

[ZombieBran]

Camper getting outcamped by a character that isn't even all about camping

Reminds me of some other insanely fast character.
Except this one also has goddess blessed framed data.


Sakurai, please check your bias.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Sheik destroys Robin but I always find myself not doing too bad against them.

I know it sucks for Robin though. Really badly.

 

[EODM07]

Anyone up for a few matches? I got a room up. o.o

Plus I want to practicing DI'ing Throws.

 

[ZombieBran]

Robin vs Sheik is still leagues better than Zelda vs Sheik.
Greninja isn't that bad for me so far. Pikachu is evil.

Also, Zelda's are pretty bad for my Robin. It's irony.

 

[FullMoon]

Hearing that depresses me simply because Robin is all about camping with projectiles and spacing. Lol. Camper getting outcamped by a character that isn't even all about camping

Thunder, Elthunder and Arcthunder get stopped midway by shuriken, Arcfire doesn't travel far enough and does nothing if Greninja isn't within range. His spells all have more endlag than shuriken too and outside of Thunder (which is too short-ranged) they aren't very fast so Greninja just has a higher fire rate than Robin does, especially taking the durability of the tomes into account. To add insult to injury, Greninja can just crawl under Thoron, I did it against Spiral.

And then they buffed shuriken's speed. Rip.

Pretty sure this MU is at least +1 in Greninja's favor lol.

 

[ZombieBran]

One of the best Robins on Zelda

Reflector and powerful, not much to punish if smart. You have to zone, otherwise you will get ultra hard punished and die at 50. Her reflector is god-like for no reason so arcfire is useless in the MU and be carefull with thunders

I feel he overestimates Zelda's safety and Nayru's a biT, but otherwise I agree.

 

[FullMoon]

By the way is Robin's Hoo-Hah just have strict timing or does DI ruins it? Spiral tried it against me several times and I don't think it even hit, could be the input lag though.

 

[Soul.]

Reminds me of some other insanely fast character.
Except this one also has goddess blessed framed data.


Sakurai, please check your bias.

It's funny because all the bias comes from according to most.
"wahh wahh wahh im crying wahh kid icarus bias"

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

By the way is Robin's Hoo-Hah just have strict timing or does DI ruins it? Spiral tried it against me several times and I don't think it even hit, could be the input lag though.

Strict timing and depends on the character from what I gather. The general range for the Hoo hah (Check mate I think the Robins call it) is like, 50-70 percent or something. But you have to be fast or else you can air dodge it. Bad reflexes and online lag make it harder to land, but i'm done it several times.

Its pretty nice. but I think you might be better off uair-ing out of an arc thunder/fire. dthrow > Utilt to usmash or jab are better options I think. Not sure how valid it is.

Fresh fsmash or fair (off of the arcthunder/fire, not dthrow) are good alternatives too from what I do, but i'm not sure how optimal that is.

 

[Space Stranger]

I think needs more invincibility frames for his Smash attacks.

 

[EODM07]

I'mma gonna try and finish Mother/EarthBound Beginnings. Since everyone seems to be busy or not interested in having some matches. o.o

Time to get Plasma Beams for Lloyd.

 

[FullMoon]

I think needs more invincibility frames for his Smash attacks.

More? Does he even have any to begin with?

 

[KarmaCastle]

Typical FG Against Rosalina:

>Land perfect lightning kicks, dash attacks, fsmash
>BLOCKED BY LUMA EVERY F*** TIME
>Kill luma, rosalina plays the teleport grab game
>All my willpower to not SD in my salty bath
>2 stocks me and spams all 3 taunts
>mfw

 

[EODM07]

Typical FG Against Rosalina:

>Land perfect lightning kicks, dash attacks, fsmash
>BLOCKED BY LUMA EVERY F*** TIME
>Kill luma, rosalina plays the teleport grab game
>All my willpower to not SD in my salty bath
>2 stocks me and spams all 3 taunts
>mfw

Don't worry, FG is full of unskilled players anyways.

 

[LonkQ]

I think we need a petition to remove Luma.

 

[Soul.]

okay gorls help me out on something
how can I become better at helping someone?

 

[Ffamran]

More? Does he even have any to begin with?

They could remove the disjoint and give him partial invincibility for his legs instead. It'd be more useful as an anti-air that way. Or remove the disjoint and make it say, frame 16 instead. Right now, it's slower than Ganondorf's in all areas and does not do consistent damage like Ganondorf's. Captain Falcon's Up Smash's first hit is frame 22 and does 6% or 11%, the second hit is frame 28 and does 12% or 13% with a base knockback of 30 and knockback growth of 104, 104, or 112, and he can't act until frame 52. Ganondorf's hits on frame 21-23, he acts at frame 42, it does 24%, and it has a BKB of 40, and KBG of 71 or 75. Knowing Ganondorf's Up Smash does 24%, twice that of Captain Falcon's second hit, and only does 33-37 less KBG than the second hit, Ganondorf's is safer, stronger, and more reliable.

 

[kenniky]

Yeah, some moves are better than others. That's called good game design.

 

[Ffamran]

Yeah, some moves are better than others. That's called good game design.

Nah, it's probably Captain Falcon's most useless move and completely overshadowed by everything he and Ganondorf have. They could have just made it a combo move like Falco's Up Smash, but then we'd get complaints like how his Uair and Bair lost 1% of damage... Up Smash wasn't even used that much! Other times, it's just like, "Why?" Charizard had like 2 Ftilts before they made his Dtilt faster.

 

[ZombieBran]

He's one of the only really balanced characters in the game.

> be Zelda main
> 1:9 matchup

 

[EODM07]

Just got the seventh melody. Poor EVE.

Now I feel like I'll struggle more as I go further up Mt. Itoi. Since I'm around Lv. 25 - 30.

 

[LonkQ]

Nah, it's probably Captain Falcon's most useless move and completely overshadowed by everything he and Ganondorf have. They could have just made it a combo move like Falco's Up Smash, but then we'd get complaints like how his Uair and Bair lost 1% of damage... Up Smash wasn't even used that much! Other times, it's just like, "Why?" Charizard had like 2 Ftilts before they made his Dtilt faster.

You know what? I wouldn't mind Falcon's 64 Usmash, but that might be way too good.

 

[Ffamran]

You know what? I wouldn't mind Falcon's 64 Usmash, but that might be way too good.

Play as PM Wolf, he has it for a dash attack. Or play as Ryu.

Still wouldn't mind someone having this as an Up Smash. It'd be hilarious if Wolf comes back with this as his dash attack. People would be raving about how the developers actually looked at PM... but then realized they just took 64 Captain Falcon's Utilt and slapped it on Wolf so he wouldn't have a Fox, Yoshi, pre-Smash 4 Falco Up Smash for a dash attack.

Would also like it if someone had this for a Side Smash. Technically ZSS and Ryu have this, but seriously, this looks more natural than that weird elbow thrust Captain Falcon does and would actually justify the freaking range on his Side Smash. Also, would like this one too because Captain Falcon's voice clip was a "YEEEEAGH" instead of a "TO-WAAH".

Also, 64 Fox's Utilt could have been given to someone else too. Closest we've got is Wolf's Utilt which is more of a tipper front kick than a whip kick. Hmm... Captain Falcon? It'd be okay for Captain Falcon to have, especially since if he had his old 64 Side Smash, this would be an angled one, but probably not as sharply angled. Snake could have had this instead since his standing split with disjoint galore was not exactly a cool or fun move for people to deal with.

 

[Macchiato]

> be Zelda main
> 1:9 matchup

That's my favorite MU. I think it's even.

 

[Rickster]

(ಠ ᴥಠ) sorry I've been MIA has anything exciting happened?

There's some info in the Wisdom's Weapons thread about Jab>Fair that was recently added, if you're interested.

 

[KarmaCastle]

Nah, it's probably Captain Falcon's most useless move and completely overshadowed by everything he and Ganondorf have. They could have just made it a combo move like Falco's Up Smash, but then we'd get complaints like how his Uair and Bair lost 1% of damage... Up Smash wasn't even used that much! Other times, it's just like, "Why?" Charizard had like 2 Ftilts before they made his Dtilt faster.

Wait what? Are we asking to buff captain falcon? Strong air game, great spike, amazing mobility, arguably one of the best dash grab/attacks in the game, free combos, massive launching fsmash; I uh. I. W-what?

I wish Zelda only had one single move that was overshadowed by the rest of the entirety of her moveset

 

[Ffamran]

Wait what? Are we asking to buff captain falcon? Strong air game, great spike, amazing mobility, arguably one of the best dash grab/attacks in the game, free combos, massive launching fsmash; I uh. I. W-what?

I wish Zelda only had one single move that wasn't overshadowed by the rest of the entirety of her moveset

For one, Up Smash from Captain Falcon isn't common and two, it has a stupid disjoint on it. A move like that seems like it's only supposed to hit above him and if you're right next to him. Well, it does, but it also hits above an arm length in front of him as well. Taking away the disjoint and doing something like either making it faster (and weaker) or adding partial invincibility so it's a better anti-air move would help. Right now, Captain Falcon's better off anti-airing with Utilt or just running and hitting you with Uair, Nair, or Bair before you do anything.

Edit: Why are ducks so cute?

 

[evmaxy54]

Me & a gurl had a funny

 

[kenniky]

Not every character has to play the same, and not every move has to have utility.

 

[EODM07]

For one, Up Smash from Captain Falcon isn't common and two, it has a stupid disjoint on it. A move like that seems like it's only supposed to hit above him and if you're right next to him. Well, it does, but it also hits above an arm length in front of him as well. Taking away the disjoint and doing something like either making it faster (and weaker) or adding partial invincibility so it's a better anti-air move would help. Right now, Captain Falcon's better off anti-airing with Utilt or just running and hitting you with Uair, Nair, or Bair before you do anything.

Edit: Why are ducks so cute?

I still see Falcon as a Low Risk, High Reward character. Since with these disjoints, it gives him a few safe options plus he can hit you from miles away without a care in the world. If they did shrink down the hitboxes a bit, I think he'd be more than okay to deal with. But eh, people are finding ways to counter Falcon. I'm not use to contesting his fast speed and Grab to Win tactics.

And to quote @ Antonykun

"Pray you don't get grabbed."

This is the reason why ducks are so cute.

 

[Cress!]

My school went into lockdown right after school ended so I had to stay an extra 10 minutes. I would understand, but the reason they went into lockdown was because someone pulled into the parking lot and looked shady. They didn't do anything bad or have any weapons. Perfect reason to lock everyone in for an extra 10 minutes!

@ Ffamran Because ducks can swim without being fish.

 

[Rickster]

Going to a tourney in an hour. I need some advice gorls.
- Dealing with Luigi, specifically how to edgeguard him
- Are Mario and Luigi's Smashes safe on block?
- Some tips for Duck Hunt and DK
- ROB. Just....ROB. This character is satan

 

[Ffamran]

Not every character has to play the same, and not every move has to have utility.

Pre-patch 1.1.0 Diddy had 2 aerials: Uair and Fair. Nair, Bair, and Dair were more or less overshadowed by those two. On the ground, the only moves he had were Dtilt, Side Smash, and sometimes Utilt. Add in Banana Peel, Monkey Flip, sometimes Peanut Popgun, U-throw, and D-throw, this damn monkey had 10 moves that overshadowed 21 normals, aerials, Specials, and throws. 50% of this character's moves were outright useless. Captain Falcon? Jab, Nair, Uair, Bair, F-throw, and D-throw. 6 moves. His Fair and Dair are situational, Smashes are beyond situational, outside of Raptor Boost, none of his Specials are spectacular, U-throw isn't that great for setting up Uair, and B-throw is just there. Remember Zelda? What did she have prior to the patches and hell, since Melee? Down Smash, Fair, Bair, and air dodge were her most usable moves in Melee. In Smash 4, we've added Nair and Farore's Wind at launch. Patches had to make her Up Smash, Side Smash, and Phantom Slash function.

Moves should have at least some purpose. Captain Falcon's Up Smash is basically just there. It's a read move when it shouldn't be and as a read move, it's freaking pathetic compared to Side Smash and Raptor Boost. Captain Falcon is better off reading with Falcon Kick or using that read to setup a Knee. Nobody wants a pre-patches Diddy Uair that was a freaking swiss army knife and nobody wants a Ganondorf Volcano Kick that is only 10% as strong while having worse range and getting overshadowed by better ultimate read options.

 

[Antonykun]

> be Zelda main
> 1:9 matchup

I have a very strong desire to respond, should I?

 

[LonkQ]

Speaking of useless moves, I really wouldn't mind if Counter just didn't exist. On any character.

 

[2004Zilla]

My school went into lockdown right after school ended so I had to stay an extra 10 minutes. I would understand, but the reason they went into lockdown was because someone pulled into the parking lot and looked shady. They didn't do anything bad or have any weapons. Perfect reason to lock everyone in for an extra 10 minutes!

@ Ffamran Because ducks can swim without being fish.

Life was so much better when 'probable cause' was a thing.