Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Berserker.]

Oh god. My L button is starting to **** up

 

[Aunt Jemima]

http://pastebin.com/vSGJuNbW

I'm too lazy to see if this was posted on previous pages, but it's the best thing I've ever read. omg.

 

[Ffamran]

The stage boundaries in SSB4 should have been thought out better. Some top boundaries are too low making Uairs OP and some side boundaries are too far out (noticeable on walk-off stages).

It's not the stage's fault. If Rosalina killed at 18% on Final Destination with her Uair at her full jump and the rest of the cast averaged at 37%, that's fine. What's not fine is when she can kill anyone, heavyweight or not, at like 50% with her Uair while everyone has to wait until 120%. Already complained about it after CEO.

I don't think Halberd's the problem, but Rosalina & Luma's Uair needs to be changed. Rosie's Uair comes out at frame 8, does 10%, has a base knockback of 40, knockback growth of 98, and sends you almost vertically at 88 degrees. At frame 11, it does 5% and the rest is the same, so a weak hit, and the weakest hit comes out at frame 22 which does 2%, has a BKB of 20, KBG of 30, and still sends you at 88 degrees. Luma's comes out at frame 9, but I think it comes out 1 frame later than that because all of Luma's moves come out 1 frame later than Rosie - makes sense because she's commanding him. Anyway, it does 4%, but has a BKB of 30, KBG of 130, and sends you once again, almost vertically at 80 degrees.

Contrast this with Fox whose Uair does two hits, with the final hit coming out at frame 12, does 11%, has a BKB of 30, and KBG of 100, and sends you up at 85 degrees. Also keep in mind that Fox's jump is lower and he falls faster means he has to be at the right moment at the right time to Uair. Fox's Uair also sometimes whiffs the second hit and people can fall out of it. There's Ness too whose Uair comes out at frame 8, does 13%, has a BKB of 13, KBG of 109, and sends you at 85 degrees. Ness's jump is good and he's a floaty, but his Uair's range pales in comparison to Rosalina's which is vertically disjointed and she's tall too. There's Link, Zelda, and Ike too who have strong, disjointed Uairs, but Link and Ike don't have high jumps, Link's is narrow while Ike's is horizontal, and Zelda's not only slow, but it's telegraphed by the sound it makes - you can hear it before it hits you. Ike and Zelda's are also almost twice as slow as Rosalina's, Ike's at 13 frames of startup and Zelda's at 14 while Link's at 11.

How the hell does this get ignored? It's been seen countless times, but nobody bats an eye or thinks, "Hey, that might be a bit too much powerful." It's not Diddy's spam-happy Uair pre-pre-patch, but it's a move that can kill heavies at 20% on Halberd and kills at sub-100%. It's like giving someone a Ganodorf Side Smash, but making it much faster and safer. Hi, Roy.

Edit: Rosalina has Falco's current Uair, but with 1 more frame of startup, 5 more BKB, and 8 more KBG while doing the same damage, is disjointed, lingers with weaker hits, and a good jump as well. Patch or no patch, Falco was capable of the same thing Rosalina is, but he's slower than her and lacks her Uair's vertical range. Why is this a thing for Rosalina?

The thing is Rosalina has good air speed, falls slowly so she can drift in and out, and her jump is good. Most characters have to get right in to hit anything and end up throwing a hurtbox and hitbox out. Weapon users have disjoints, but Shulk's Uair isn't fast compared to Rosalina's and he's not as tall as her which adds onto her ranged Uair.

Her Uair cannot be challenged from above and few characters can even challenge below them. Yes, you can challenge her from the sides and from below, but the question is how do you get there when she throws out a disjoint like that? Can you air dodge her Uair? Absolutely, but what if she reads it? You're going to get hit. You could jump or drift out as well, but she'll follow, especially against fast fallers or characters with below average air speed. In theory, anything can be avoided, but in practice, not so much.

The issue is the balance between speed and power with her Uair along with how she works that makes it strong. Anyone can kill anyone early on Halberd, but it's the ease that she can that makes the difference. Fox would have to find a way to setup the Uair and Uair again closer the ceiling at low percents, but his jump isn't exactly good. Can he run around and position himself? Yes, but once he commits, he's going to have to fast fall down since his air speed and fall speed won't let him drift around like Rosalina. Yoshi can run around and drift around too, but his Uair's range is short - of all the moves where his tail doesn't stretch. Rosalina has ground speed and air speed to move around. Once she launches you, you're at her mercy. Her Uair isn't broken or a super versatile move like pre-pre-patch Diddy's Swiss Army Knife Uair, but it's a bit too strong when you tie in everything.

TL;DR? Here's the gist, Falco's Uair was stronger than Rosalina's at launch, but it was slower by 2 frames and did 11% instead of 10%. Now, it's virtually the same except for a few things: hitbox, how Rosalina moves, and other things like end lag, landing lag, etc. Falco's Uair hitbox is centered around him. Despite Falco being slightly shorter than Captain Falcon and ZSS and slightly taller than Fox, some of his moves have less range with Uair being one of them. Falco does a lazy front flip which sucks for Falco players who want more range, but does keep it from being too powerful. Patch or no patch, Falco was always able to jump near the blast zone and boot you in.

Rosalina's Uair extends above her. I think it's about Toon Link's Uair length which when you add that onto a character taller than Captain Falcon, that vertical range is insane. So, good jump, good air speed to drift around and follow, and the vertical disjoint turns a strong move into an even stronger move. If Rosalina killed people at say, 70% with her Uair at her full hop height, that might be more acceptable, but getting punished that hard at such a low percent just because you couldn't avoid her is frustrating. With fast fallers, low air speed, and low weight characters, it's much, much more frustrating. Sometimes, the punish is just because you decided to jump and then Rosalina goes to town on you.

It's like if Falco's Bair was Ganondorf's jab, but with Ganondorf's jab range. A frame 4 jab that kills at 120% center stage or around 80% at the ledge would **** off so many people even though Ganondorf's not a top tier. It's worse than Roy's sweet-spotted Side Smash since in lag, you might not be able to react to Roy's Side Smash, but frame 4? That's almost instant. You blink; you die. As an aerial on a slow-moving character with short range and only having 2 active frames stops it from being broken.

 

[Cenizas]

Tbh the community's reflex to call everything "jank" has pretty much desensitized me from feeling anything is broken anymore except for certain stages like Pyrosphere and Balloon Trip.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

People have yet to realize that Smash 4's internal coding is jank

 

[Soul.]

Speed up the pace of the game; it's still going to be slower than Melee.

 

[Ffamran]

Tbh the community's reflex to call everything "jank" has pretty much desensitized me from feeling anything is broken except for certain stages like Pyrosphere and Balloon Trip.

The word "jank" makes me cringe. It's like hearing "twerk", "ratchet", "may-mays", and other dumb ****. When I hear "ratchet", I think of a freaking tool used to fix **** or a character from Transformers or Ratchet & Clank not a purposely mispronounced "wretched".

 

[evmaxy54]

Tbf Halberd is a terrible stage & why you 'Mericans still have it legal puzzles me :/

 

[Cenizas]

The word "jank" makes me cringe. It's like hearing "twerk", "ratchet", "may-mays", and other dumb ****. When I hear "ratchet", I think of a freaking tool used to fix **** or a character from Transformers or Ratchet & Clank not a purposely mispronounced "wretched".

I mostly agree except for ratchet. Ratchet is so fetch!

 

[Shrokatii]

Tbf Halberd is a terrible stage & why you 'Mericans still have it legal puzzles me :/

cuz freedom

 

[Rizen]

I agree Rosalina's Uair is ridiculous but that is a separate, overlapping problem; it is about the stage ceilings. Knock-back doesn't matter too much when you can simply carry the opponent into the upper deathzone. SSB4 has a lot of throw combos that can do this even at low %s on low ceilings but not high ceilings.

Striking them is always an option! Though if you're talking about in general, then yes I definitely agree the ceilings should be higher. Especially on Halberd. Idc how light Jiggly is; I should not be able to kill her at 0% with the elevator on that stage...

^This kind of thing. Yes killing at 0% makes games end faster but it doesn't make the gameplay faster.

 

[McKnightlíght]

I like Halberd!


Don't look at my mains!

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I like Halberd too

:^)

 

[kenniky]

http://pastebin.com/vSGJuNbW

I'm too lazy to see if this was posted on previous pages, but it's the best thing I've ever read. omg.

It got deleted from reddit



About slowness and stages: I guess be glad there is a fast way to kill. With most moves not killing until after 110%, lack of combos to rack up damage, the plethora of far-reaching recoveries, and the new ledge mechanics, sm4sh is destined to be slow.

 

[evmaxy54]

cuz freedom

Oh **** I forgot it has guns & explosions on it how can I be so st00p1d -_-

 

[Cress!]

Tbh the community's reflex to call everything "jank" has pretty much desensitized me from feeling anything is broken anymore except for certain stages like Pyrosphere and Balloon Trip.

I still love the Balloon Trip stage lol. Playing against someone who doesn't understand the gimmick makes it all the better.

 

[Cenizas]

Oh **** I forgot it has guns & explosions on it how can I be so st00p1d -_-

I pity that you will experience being graced by the presence of our Lord and Savior the Imperial Measurement System.

 

[r_greening1]

@ Aunt Jemima this line killed me:
"Leffen gazes upon Mew2King as he takes his seat, but to his horror he makes a discovery upon staring into the smash zealot's eyes. This robot has no soul"

Does that mean @BJN39's methods cannot affect robots? That means @ McKnightlíght can do anything it wants!!

Omg I can't
"However, the malevolent fiend is unaware that Hungrybox has managed to escape Nintendo headquarters, having found Reggie's secret horde of Pizza Hut pizzas and used them to grease up his wrists, allowing him to free himself from the shackles which bound him to the CEO's desk. His bail having been posted by the Jigglypuff main's vast engineering wealth, Mango enters the venue with Hungrybox on a chariot pulled by a flock of bald eagles. “Lmao nice shirt” he says as he takes his seat next to Leffen as Loser’s Finals begins. Mango’s intense training becomes apparent as his Fox cleanly 8-stocks Leffen’s over the course of two games spanning Stadium and Mangoland."

This is wonderful
"He begins to sweat as Hungrybox approaches him. The two share a knowing nod before their beards intertwine, each god grasping one end of the Gamecube controller as the character select cursor moves to princess Jigglypuff. Four quick rests later and Leffen bursts into flames as he returns to the depths of hell.

The newly formed Jigglypuff hivemind turn their gaze to Mew2King as he dejectedly displays the smoking stumps which used to be the hands that took him to the top of the Melee metagame. Suddenly, the doors to the room burst open as Armada floats onto the stage, clad in the flayed hide of the Swedish polar bear Leffen had trained to destroy him. “You Americans don’t have anything on Swedish health care,” he says as he sheds a single tear into Mew2King’s wrist which causes him to rapidly regenerate a new pair of hands. The two execute a frame-perfect glasses adjustment, their minds melding to become one as they sit down to meet their challenger in Grand Finals. Armew2kingda and Mangobox proceed to exchange games until they arrive at game 5. However, just as the last stock is drawing to a close, Leffen executes his last act of defiance in the mortal realm, unleashing his familiar, MacD, to unplug the cable, ending the game before the last stock is taken.

The crowd falls silent as a beam of light pierces the roof of the venue. An angelic chorus resonates throughout the Bally’s Paris Las Vegas Hotel as the ghost of Satoru Iwata descends from above clutching a small box in his hands. “We would like you to play,” he says, extending a copy of Melee HD. The Smash gods are so enamored by Captain Falcon's high resolution, immaculately textured ass and the auditory eargasm that is the Melee HD Shine that they fail to notice the unassuming challenger approaching them. At this moment, PPMD has arrived at the event, exiting his horse-drawn carriage and dressed in his traditional Amish garb. “Sorry I’m late, y’all,” he says before plugging his butter churn into the gamecube and proceeding to 3-0 both of the fused supergods. As he unceremoniously takes his EVO trophy and returns to the mountains, the four gods share a collective sigh. As the crowd dissipates, the four play out one last game together: a four-player, two-minute FFA on Pokefloats. Items set to High. Their laughter echoes through the empty hotel lobby."

 

[Berserker.]

Yes killing at 0% makes games end faster but it doesn't make the gameplay faster.

Or entertaining, or fun

 

[Moydow]

Only real problem I have with Halberd is the low ceiling. The laser and cannonball are pretty easily avoided. Move the ceiling up a little so people aren't dying at 0.137% off the top, and it's fine for a counterpick.

Then again I don't agree with almost anything about the ruleset being used over here, so *shrug*

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

This is the greatest freaking game in the world. I love playing through it at least once a year! World 7 is hard but nothing compared to World 8!

I have used the warp whistle before and yeah, the airship levels especially are killer.

However, on a normal play through, I only made it to like world 7.

I should also mention since it should be obvious that I'm playing the GBA version of the game. Since the GBA versions of both Super mario bros 3 and World are what I actually grew up with.

 

[SBphiloz4]

LEGALIZE•KONGO JUNGLE 64
LEGALIZE•WUHU ISLAND
LEGALIZE•GAMER

 

[Shrokatii]

LEGALIZE•KONGO JUNGLE 64
LEGALIZE•WUHU ISLAND
LEGALIZE•GAMER

no

my friend picks kongo jungle 64 and the cannon is jank

and its too big like ridley

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

LEGALIZE•KONGO JUNGLE 64
LEGALIZE•WUHU ISLAND
LEGALIZE•GAMER

Both of this, especially Wuhu. Waifu knowing whats up.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Legalize Palutena's Temple so I can run away and dtaunt the entire match

 

[Cenizas]

Legalize Palutena's Temple so I can run away and dtaunt the entire match

Honestly the only characters Zelda can actually run away from on Palutena's Temple are Little Mac and Ganondorf.

 

[FullMoon]

I was watching some Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood just now.

I have watched this anime like 4 times now and it still makes me cry constantly what is this sorcery ;-;

 

[Locke 06]

I should also mention since it should be obvious that I'm playing the GBA version of the game. Since the GBA versions of both Super mario bros 3 and World are what I actually grew up with.

Well...

cri

 

[Phenomiracle]

Welcome to the club!

I like being 21 thus far. But I don't drink or college or anything, I spend all my time at work or in bed...


Yeah, sorry it's boring.

I don't drink either. Religious reasons, none of my family, close friends, or fiancee drink.

Have no intention of taking any of that stuff, I keep hearing how nasty alcohol is. Too much bad, and next to no good.

 

[McKnightlíght]

I have used the warp whistle before and yeah, the airship levels especially are killer.

However, on a normal play through, I only made it to like world 7.

I should also mention since it should be obvious that I'm playing the GBA version of the game. Since the GBA versions of both Super mario bros 3 and World are what I actually grew up with.

So you know where 2 warp whistles are. Do you know where all 3 are?

I don't drink either. Religious reasons, none of my family, close friends, or fiancee drink.

Have no intention of taking any of that stuff, I keep hearing how nasty alcohol is. Too much bad, and next to no good.

I would also cite religious reasons, but yeah personal experience from others who abuse it has completely driven me away from it.

 

[Cress!]

LEGALIZE•KONGO JUNGLE 64
LEGALIZE•WUHU ISLAND
LEGALIZE•GAMER

Um, did u forget?

I just realized why Wuhu Island isn't a legal stage.


It has balloons. At first I was like "oh this stage is fine." Then I was thrown into a balloon and BLEW UP.

Like in Smashville you pop balloons, but in Soviet Wuhu Island ballons pop you??? I don't even know.


I'd like the stage if it didn't have those balloons.

 

[Estel Elessar]

I was watching some Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood just now.

I have watched this anime like 4 times now and it still makes me cry constantly what is this sorcery ;-;

Damn good show

 

[Hennet]

LEGALIZE•KONGO JUNGLE 64
LEGALIZE•WUHU ISLAND
LEGALIZE•GAMER

kongo jungle 64 scares me and for some reason I can never teleport right on that stage

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Well...

cri

I like GBA versions personally. I'm also entirely ok with the fact Mario has a voice in this. The music doesn't bother me either.

So you know where 2 warp whistles are. Do you know where all 3 are?

I would also cite religious reasons, but yeah personal experience from others who abuse it has completely driven me away from it.

I know where the one with the castle requiring the raccoon tail is and the one where you duck to go into the background. I'm pretty sure I have a vague recollection of a third one, but I never needed it.

 

[Rizen]

What 3rd warp whistle in SMB3? I've never heard of it.

 

[McKnightlíght]

What 3rd warp whistle in SMB3? I've never heard of it.

On the desert level if you use a hammer on the rock in the top right corner it reveals an area with enemies like the hammer bros. (only these shoot fire balls) and you can get a whistle and an early frog suit. I went this way when I played through the game with the ultimate goal of beating Bowser in a frog suit. I eventually did it, but that level is torture in the frog suit.

 

[Antonykun]

acnl Gorls in the bell tree forums, I did the equivalent of an impulse buy and got me Tia the Elephant and now i wonder if i should keep her

 

[Cress!]

acnl Gorls in the bell tree forums, I did the equivalent of an impulse buy and got me Tia the Elephant and now i wonder if i should keep her

Um sure. She doesn't look terrible.

 

[ZombieBran]

IDK gorls, Elevators in Halberd speed up the match quit a bIT and is extremely entertaining to me

Edit: Oh, and alchohol is great. Don't drunk and drive!

 

[Antonykun]

Um sure. She doesn't look terrible.

all righty I needed a normal Villager for once i get analisse t leave my town