zelda/shiek seperate characters

[pyro363]

Hey guys whats up? I was wondering if you guys think that zelda and shiek should be two seperate characters.

In my opinion i think they should because with them combined they have to many moves togethor and would be great apart.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

The gaining of a Down+B move is probably not worth wasting an entire character slot for. Plus, Sheik cannot stand alone anyway, she's not important enough to the series. At the risk that both of their Down+B's would suck anyway, it's pretty cool to have 2 completely different characters at your constant disposal, each with their own completely fleshed out movesets.

 

[Rikuo]

Sheik might stay in due to the huge fanbase. Although, I don't know if her fanbase is so strong because she was good in melee, or if its because tons of people like Sheik as a character/identity/disguise. I was hoping transformation was taken out, either by separating the characters, or by removing Sheik (sorry), but mostly because I wanted Zelda to step out of Sheik's shadow.

My biggest pet peeve in melee was when I select Zelda in the character screen, and my opponent would assume I was playing Sheik. And then during the match they would ask "What the hell? Why don't you transform!?" But it seems like I won't have to worry about that issue in brawl, so I don't really care if Sheik stays as Zelda's down B. Although, I'm admittedly not fond of Sheik cluttering Zelda's portrait in the character select screen.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

My biggest pet peeve in melee was when I select Zelda in the character screen, and my opponent would assume I was playing Sheik. And then during the match they would ask "What the hell? Why don't you transform!?"

I loved it when people assumed that I'd change to Sheik. I also loved how people explained to their friends "watch out this isn't a Sheik player!"

 

[rampant_apart]

I almost wish they were separate characters, given how long the transformation time is now. It feels like they put up a brick wall between the two, so synergy between them is far far harder than need be.

 

[Ztarfish]

Well in all honesty I would hate to see Sheik as a separate character more than a transformation, no matter the length. Because that would imply that Sheik is significant enough to be her own character (which she most DEFINITELY is not). Either Sheik as a transformation or no Sheik at all.

The long transformation time really doesn't affect the majority because most don't regularly switch between the two. For the minority who do enjoy switching between the two often (which is fine) they might have to pick the one that they like to play for the majority.

 

[Iris]

Though the transformation is longer, there's still merits to it. Sheik's better at racking up damage than before, and Zelda can kill way more easily, so the intended purpose for them is correct this time, but the long transformations kind of kills it if you'e used to the flow of battle and likely to get killed if you transform.

They're both still stand-alones, Zelda's just more of one since her damage racking isn't as bad as Sheik's kill potential.

 

[Airgemini]

Well It would be nice but then again it would take a character slot that something else couldve been in there and besides what would Zelda's Down B be?
What difference would it make if they're separate? They'll still be the same except with an extra move and maybe different outfits...

 

[Iris]

Down B for Zelda > Icon for random character.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

Down B for Zelda > Icon for random character.

^_^ I actually rather like the new "Random" character. Much better than just having a character that you could continuously select.

A significantly better way to rectify this is by horribly nerfing the transform time to like... 20 seconds (to prevent use during battle), and setting it to one of the taunts. It's not going to happen, but it's a neat way to have 2 full characters in one.

 

[Wind Owl]

They basically did that with S/Zamus, although admittedly I haven't seen it done so I don't know how long it takes.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I think that the two should not be separated into different characters. Since Sheik was Zelda´s camouflage in the first place, she shouldn´t become her own character but stay as part of Zelda (Sheik users, don´t hate me, it´s just my opinion).

And as a side note, I have a theory why they made transformation longer. I think that since Zelda is now lot better to kill and Sheik to damage, they though that the character would become too strong if you could use both strong and fast character in one with minimal transformation time.

 

[Ryudo_Sama]

No, the two should not be seperate characters. Zelda would need a huge rebuff if she should be alone.

 

[rageagainst]

I think that the two should not be separated into different characters. Since Sheik was Zelda´s camouflage in the first place, she shouldn´t become her own character but stay as part of Zelda (Sheik users, don´t hate me, it´s just my opinion).

And as a side note, I have a theory why they made transformation longer. I think that since Zelda is now lot better to kill and Sheik to damage, they though that the character would become too strong if you could use both strong and fast character in one with minimal transformation time.

finally someone figured it out this is EXACTLY why the transform time is longer, and it IS A GOOD THING. the long transform time means that both the characters have very little synergy, and thus no broken comboes could appear, and nintendo can then make 2 seperate stand-alone characters. THIS WAS NOT THE INTENTION IN MELEE.

In melee they wanted 2 characters with somewhat good synergy, but weak standalone characters, well they certainly did make zelda a weak standalone character but did a really bad job at making sheik a standalone character (i think sheik was intended to not be attached to Zelda, and later they decided to add Zelda in because Sheik might not be seen again for the Zelda series, which was right).

 

[Drake3]

No, the two should not be seperate characters. Zelda would need a huge rebuff if she should be alone.

Why? They've done a pretty good job making her a stand-alone in Brawl.

 

[Tristan_win]

Sheik might stay in due to the huge fanbase. Although, I don't know if her fanbase is so strong because she was good in melee, or if its because tons of people like Sheik as a character/identity/disguise. I was hoping transformation was taken out, either by separating the characters, or by removing Sheik (sorry), but mostly because I wanted Zelda to step out of Sheik's shadow.

Hate to bust your bubble but Sheik doesn't have a strong fan base. The only reason so many people used her was because she was "easy". Sure a lot of people did used her but a good number of them didn't really care about Sheik they just used her to win, nothing more.

 

[Igneous42]

The gaining of a Down+B move is probably not worth wasting an entire character slot for. Plus, Sheik cannot stand alone anyway, she's not important enough to the series. At the risk that both of their Down+B's would suck anyway, it's pretty cool to have 2 completely different characters at your constant disposal, each with their own completely fleshed out movesets.

I agree. And Brawl seemed to fix Zelda for the better. Where in Melee you had a lot of "sheik players" and a few "Zelda Players" barely anyone actually got good with both. Really most people wouldn't use Zelda because Sheik was all around better.

In Brawl they fixed it. Not both characters are more even and because of it I hope to see people use them how they were supposed to be used. Switching back and fourth. I think pro's who master Zelda and Sheik will do very well, because you ahve two characters you can switch between mid match. The possibilities for mind games and stuff is endless.

 

[Rikuo]

Hate to bust your bubble but Sheik doesn't have a strong fan base. The only reason so many people used her was because she was "easy". Sure a lot of people did used her but a good number of them didn't really care about Sheik they just used her to win, nothing more.

Thats fine by me. I like Sheik, but I am a Zelda fan. I just want to see Zelda's fandom grow so she can eventually play more active roles in her games. If Sheik gets in the way of that, thats when I stop liking Sheik. I would have preferred Zelda to be a stand alone character in brawl to give Zelda a chance to shine, but since Sheik was nerfed and Zelda was buffed, its a step in the right direction at least.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I agree. And Brawl seemed to fix Zelda for the better. Where in Melee you had a lot of "sheik players" and a few "Zelda Players" barely anyone actually got good with both. Really most people wouldn't use Zelda because Sheik was all around better.

In Brawl they fixed it. Not both characters are more even and because of it I hope to see people use them how they were supposed to be used. Switching back and fourth. I think pro's who master Zelda and Sheik will do very well, because you ahve two characters you can switch between mid match. The possibilities for mind games and stuff is endless.

My thoughts exactly. In Melee there just was too big gap between Zelda and Sheik. In Brawl, with them gloser to each other in the matter of usability, the fact is that if someone could master them both, he could always choose between two characters and use the one that suits the situation better.

The longer transformation time also makes Zelda/Sheik combination more tactical: if you want transform, you´ve got to plan your moves ahead so that it´s (at least almost) safe. And if someone can really learn how to transform effectively, he can really screw up the game of the opponents with it.

 

[Slurgly]

No, I like them together, they ARE the same person. And it's cool to switch. And besides, Pokemon Trainer has 3 different people.

 

[rageagainst]

No, I like them together, they ARE the same person. And it's cool to switch. And besides, Pokemon Trainer has 3 different people.

ugh ppl need to stop throwing this "they are the same person" thing around, since the zelda in brawl is either the representation of all the Zelda's or the Zelda in TP, both of which are NOT the single Zelda in OoT that used sheik as a disguise.

The designers of TP were contemplating between keeping Sheik in TP but then probably remembered that she wouldn't serve her purpose as a disguise as zelda SINCE WE ALREADY KNOW ITS ZELDA, so the scrapped the idea. I seriously doubt we'll be seeing sheik again in anything other than SSB4

 

[Jellybelly]

I think Sakurais intention has always been for people to switch strategically between Zelda and Shiek.

Shiek has smash bros popularity, she was mained alot in melee. I remember before she was announced people thought she wouldn't be in? Why?! shes one of the most popular fighters in the game.

Shiek will stay Zeldas down b (and vice versa) until they stop making smash games.

 

[Iris]

Popularity alone doesn't mean much. That's why people were surprised to see Ice Climbers and G&W.

 

[Jellybelly]

I wasn't suprised to see game and watch or Ice climbers. I wasn't suprised to see shiek either

Mewtwos dissapearance was a shock (to many gen one pokemon reps) But for Shiek it would be like taking Ivy out of soul calibur, Lei Fang out of DOA. When i say popular, I don't mean well liked, I mean getting to the finals of alot of tourneys and winning people money popular.

 

[Kricu]

Honestly I love Sheik not only for her amazing skills in melee but also for how sweet she was in OOT. I don't completely agree with the commment about TP mostly because she wouldn't serve any purpose because in all honesty, Zelda served little purpose. The game wasn't really meant to focus around Zelda like the other games were. Though I do understand why it was said that they are different Zeldas. I think the nerfs are ok though even though I play Sheik. Don't get me wrong though I did play Zelda during matches just so I would be able to play as both and use them effectively (of course I never mastered this because Zelda was too slow for me) All in all I really hope that they continue to keep Sheik in the game even if they do have to make her her own character (which I highly doubt they would do).

 

[Codyy]

I always thought that Zelda was a pretty good stand along character in Melee, just that now and then you'd run into someone like Fox or Falco which is where Sheik would come into play. I'm not a huge fan of the long transformation time in Brawl, but I'll get used to it, I stick usually stick with Zelda anyway. (She can actually match up to a fast character in this game, which is pretty freakin' awesome if you ask me!)

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I always thought that Zelda was a pretty good stand along character in Melee, just that now and then you'd run into someone like Fox or Falco which is where Sheik would come into play. I'm not a huge fan of the long transformation time in Brawl, but I'll get used to it, I stick usually stick with Zelda anyway. (She can actually match up to a fast character in this game, which is pretty freakin' awesome if you ask me!)

You said it! Zelda puffs FTW!

 

[rageagainst]

I wasn't suprised to see game and watch or Ice climbers. I wasn't suprised to see shiek either

Mewtwos dissapearance was a shock (to many gen one pokemon reps) But for Shiek it would be like taking Ivy out of soul calibur, Lei Fang out of DOA. When i say popular, I don't mean well liked, I mean getting to the finals of alot of tourneys and winning people money popular.

how could you NOT be surprised!? fyi both of those chars are some of the most disliked chars in the game by CASUALS (who sakurai is appealing to)

both of those char's and ROB's followings combined were most likely smaller than roy's following, but guess whos in Brawl, popularity definately isn't the "last word" on what characters get in.

(P.S. Link was by FAR the most popular character in Soul Calibur 2... even though it was multiplatform! Despite this he did not return for SCIII)

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

how could you NOT be surprised!? fyi both of those chars are some of the most disliked chars in the game by CASUALS (who sakurai is appealing to)

both of those char's and ROB's followings combined were most likely smaller than roy's following, but guess whos in Brawl, popularity definately isn't the "last word" on what characters get in.

(P.S. Link was by FAR the most popular character in Soul Calibur 2... even though it was multiplatform! Despite this he did not return for SCIII)

Roy wasn't removed because of popularity. He was removed because of his utter worthlessness to FE (That's subjective, but follow me here). Both Marth and Ike are much more representative of the series. Roy was advertisement for the new FE game that was released in Japan at the time.

I do agree that Ice Climbers tend to be disliked by casuals. They take a lot of work, and are frustrating for people who just play as them once in a while.

Perhaps the same reason why Sheik is so popular in every crowd. She's easy to use and "master" on a casual scale, if you decide to pursue competitive status with her, she's also extremely good.

I would have personally be very saddened if G&W was removed. He has a very unique and very Nintedo symbolic moveset. Pichu, Roy, Mewteo, and Dr. Mario were none of those things. Well, Mewtwo was fairly unique, but Lucario is 4th gen, and slightly reminiscent of Mewtwo anyway.

 

[rageagainst]

Roy wasn't removed because of popularity. He was removed because of his utter worthlessness to FE (That's subjective, but follow me here). Both Marth and Ike are much more representative of the series. Roy was advertisement for the new FE game that was released in Japan at the time.

I do agree that Ice Climbers tend to be disliked by casuals. They take a lot of work, and are frustrating for people who just play as them once in a while.

Perhaps the same reason why Sheik is so popular in every crowd. She's easy to use and "master" on a casual scale, if you decide to pursue competitive status with her, she's also extremely good.

I would have personally be very saddened if G&W was removed. He has a very unique and very Nintedo symbolic moveset. Pichu, Roy, Mewteo, and Dr. Mario were none of those things. Well, Mewtwo was fairly unique, but Lucario is 4th gen, and slightly reminiscent of Mewtwo anyway.

not meaning to be rude, but your logic sir makes no sense

Roy, though popular, was cut due to his "utter worthlessness to FE" while Sheik is in because she IS popular? Fyi sheik is much more wortheless to the zelda series than Roy is to the FE series, atleast Roy was the protagonist in one game, sheik was a friggin disguise.

 

[pyro363]

But shiek may have been a disguise but a good one at that. You didn't figure out it was zelda until late in the game and even when you figure it out you probably still think this is a cool transformation. In all honesty shiek is much more popular than roy cause shiek is in the game and roy is out.

 

[popsofctown]

one minor reason sheik has staying power is that three B moves perfectly represents the three godesses of the series. Of course, correct me if I'm wrong, any third move could just be another Nayru move, since Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom which correspond to Nayru.
I would agree with those that say Shiek's tier position in melee helped her stay in the game. Sheik creates an entire moveset, and that time could be spent on representing another series. Think of it this way: Say they wanted to use Luigi to represent Luigi's mansion, an arbitrarily picked game from the past. Do you think they would take the effort to add: down B- equip vacuum, and an entire move set just to represent that game? no, it they would never do that much work.
So, that's why i think Shiek's fighting popularity in melee almost single-handedly kept her in the game.

 

[rageagainst]

But shiek may have been a disguise but a good one at that. You didn't figure out it was zelda until late in the game and even when you figure it out you probably still think this is a cool transformation. In all honesty shiek is much more popular than roy cause shiek is in the game and roy is out.

you started arguing about how sheik is popular due to the disguise thing, honestly 90% of her fanbase are there because she is 1337 not because she was a cool transformation, though this is the same as roy so you have a point THERE. And, yes obviously sheik is more popular than roy because she is in... just like sheik is currently more popular than knuckles because she is in and he is out.

However, on whats more important to SSB, roy played a much larger role than did sheik in the game he was in, he was the protagonist, while shiek was a disguise for zelda (she probably didn't even have ninja abilities), and in the end wasn't even a character, just an alter ego for zelda in ONE GAME thats TEN YEARS OLD. It would be the equivalent of adding Frog suit mario from Mario Bros 3, he was an unimportant but signature costume for mario, but unimportant nonetheless and doesn't deserve to be in SSB.

 

[Soluble Toast]

Why is it that 3/4 of Sheik lovers can't even spell her name correctly?

 

[RedMage8BT]

Because of what's taught in elementary school.