Zelda Franchise Discussion

[FalKoopa]

@CalumG
I suppose it is no use further arguing. DSN is just TOO biased.

 

[CalumG]

They don't necessarily need another one, but it is possible. Others need it too. But still, Ghirahim is not a minor villain. He plays a big role in Skyward Sword.

Adapting styles could work but I think the roster would mainly be affected by it, if only in looks, because of what happened in the last three Smash Bros games.

He's minor to the series as a whole though - and even though the Zelda cast may take visual cues from Skyward Sword, they've got the burden of representing decades of Zelda games, not just the one. Which is why I point towards characters such as Tingle and Impa, who have spanned multiple generations and timelines. Heck they could even include a generic Goron (as a representative of its race, like Yoshi) and it'd be more widely recognized and have more source material to reference than Ghirahim does - not that I'd want a generic Goron even a little bit, but you can see the point I'm making.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

He's minor to the series as a whole though - and even though the Zelda cast may take visual cues from Skyward Sword, they've got the burden of representing decades of Zelda games, not just the one. Which is why I point towards characters such as Tingle and Impa, who have spanned multiple generations and timelines. Heck they could even include a generic Goron (as a representative of its race, like Yoshi) and it'd be more widely recognized and have more source material to reference than Ghirahim does - not that I'd want a generic Goron even a little bit, but you can see the point I'm making.

I see where you are getting at, but still, that doesn't count Ghirahim out entirely though. Doesn't guarantee him either.

Just trying to think of it in a way that balances certain things out.

 

[Gallowglass]

As for Ganondorf I really don't want him to have a sword. I know he uses it in Zelda games but I feel magic hand to hand style fits him more in Smash. When he shows his sword in victory poses or taunts it really shows his arrogance. Ganondorf's has the power of the gods and that they should really build a moveset off of that. I feel like a sword would lessen that ability.

For Ghirahim I really feel like the best you can hope for is an AT. I don't have a lot of faith that one shots will be playable in Smash and nor do I think we will see appear again (in human form) in future Zelda games. I don't see him offering anything unique to the Smash world other than style.

 

[CalumG]

As for Ganondorf I really don't want him to have a sword. I know he uses it in Zelda games but I feel magic hand to hand style fits him more in Smash. When he shows his sword in victory poses or taunts it really shows his arrogance. Ganondorf's has the power of the gods and that they should really build a moveset off of that. I feel like a sword would lessen that ability.

I'm completely torn between the two, to be honest. From a purely representational standpoint, it'd be much closer to canon to see Ganondorf wield a weapon of some kind - be it a big ol' sword like Demise has, a more agile sword (or swords, if you wanna go for multiple) a la TP/TWW, or of course the classic trident which I'm dying to see again (if it weren't for Hyrule Hystoria acknowledging the 2D Zelda titles, I'd have thought Nintendo were going out of their way to ignore them). At the same time, I enjoy the playstyle current Ganondorf has - clone or no clone - and would like to see any changes to his character be based off of what he is currently like.

Some sort of middle ground would be nice, though how they'd achieve that is anybodys guess.

 

[Spire]

Give Ganondorf the ****ing Trident and let him shoot evil magic from its spearheads. Why Nintendo has not stuck with the Trident being Ganon/Ganondorf's signature weapon, I do not know. Seems to be a thing of the past.

That sword in Twilight Princess was the lamest weapon he has ever used.

 

[SmashShadow]

I think one thing we're all forgetting is that a new Zelda game is in development. It's still very feasible that Zelda, Link and Ganon(if he's in it) will be based of that game's design.

And I'd argue that his swords in Wind Waker were more boring.

 

[CalumG]

I think one thing we're all forgetting is that a new Zelda game is in development. It's still very feasible that Zelda, Link and Ganon(if he's in it) will be based of that game's design.

Roy aside, they don't generally take elements from unreleased games and games that are developed during the same time as Smash. With Brawl for example, Mario Galaxy was effectively developed alongside it (and released a few months before it due to Brawl's delay), but we saw no kinds of Galaxy references/stages in the game. That may not be the case for SSB4 though - the team may well be working much more closely with some of Nintendo's internal dev teams - but I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. Especially given how Twilight Princess was in development during the early days of the Gamecube and Skyward Sword during the early days of the Wii, but neither saw release until right near the end of their respective lifecycles. Would they risk including references to the next Zelda game when the next Zelda game could end up being delayed by an unforseen amount (and end up not releasing until near the end of the Wii U's lifecycle)?

 

[SmashShadow]

Roy aside, they don't generally take elements from unreleased games and games that are developed during the same time as Smash. With Brawl for example, Mario Galaxy was effectively developed alongside it (and released a few months before it due to Brawl's delay), but we saw no kinds of Galaxy references/stages in the game. That may not be the case for SSB4 though - the team may well be working much more closely with some of Nintendo's internal dev teams - but I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. Especially given how Twilight Princess was in development during the early days of the Gamecube and Skyward Sword during the early days of the Wii, but neither saw release until right near the end of their respective lifecycles. Would they risk including references to the next Zelda game when the next Zelda game could end up being delayed by an unforseen amount (and end up not releasing until near the end of the Wii U's lifecycle)?

We don't specifically know how far in development this one is though. If smash is most likely coming out in 2014 and we look at Zelda's track record for new console releases which is usually just a 3-4 year apart distance than it's still a possibility(SS was in 2011). Again, this all depends on how long it's been in development.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

We don't specifically know how far in development this one is though. If smash is most likely coming out in 2014 and we look at Zelda's track record for new console releases which is usually just a 3-4 year apart distance than it's still a possibility(SS was in 2011). Again, this all depends on how long it's been in development.

Eiji Aonuma said at the january nintendo direct that the game was taking longer than they had thought it would, and that they ask for our patience. And part of that is why they are giving us WW HD to hold us over for our zelda needs, which might mean we may not see anything of it for a while. And with that in mind id say that since it is confirmed that we will be seeing smash bros (in some form) at E3, its safe to say that link will be one of the characters we will see first, which will be telling. Im betting that they wont reveal a new link before hes even shown in the game hes representing. As weve seen with brawl they included assets from games and areas we were familiar with and up until that point, and its to be assumed it may likely be the case again with them using everything from galaxy and that wii era up until now.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I didn't like the sword in Twilight Princess either. But I was kinda happy he used one actually. Mostly to how it would translate in his Smash moves, which didn't happen outside of a damn taunt.

Replaying Wind Waker btw. The game is as fun as I remember it being.

 

[volbound1700]

Ganondorf would have been better off as a clone of Zelda than Captain Falcon because Ganon uses heavily magic attacks in all his games. His early games (LOZ1 and ALTTP) Ganon uses primarily magic and was a fat, slow beast.

I feel that we should keep some of Ganon's current moves but also hybrid in some magical attacks to de-clone him.

 

[FalKoopa]

I feel that we should keep some of Ganon's current moves but also hybrid in some magical attacks to de-clone him.

The graceful style of Zelda's attacks doesn't really fit Ganondorf. Making it stranger is the fact that Zelda's attacks are actually used by Link in OoT.

 

[SmashShadow]

I didn't like the sword in Twilight Princess either. But I was kinda happy he used one actually. Mostly to how it would translate in his Smash moves, which didn't happen outside of a damn taunt.

Replaying Wind Waker btw. The game is as fun as I remember it being.

I was talking about design wise. Even though Ganon had a new sword style with the whole double katana thing, both of his swords just seemed really bland looking.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Ganondorf should at least have that weird magic ball that gets deflected back and forth that's in nearly every zelda game.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

@CalumG
I suppose it is no use further arguing. DSN is just TOO biased.

Not really, only a little with a few things, but that applies to all of us.

 

[Gallowglass]

I think Ganondorf has a lot more potential being a magic hand to hand fighter. One move I would really like to see is his back hand technique in OOT.

B-Slap
Ganondorf does a back-hand slap with glowing magical energy. It is very powerful but has shorter reach. Like Mario's cape it can reflect projectiles.

This is the idea I want for him. He doesn't need to put a lot of effort into his moves because they're enhance by magic and really shows his arrogance. I do like the trident idea but the trident is what turned him into Ganon. For a final smash I like to see him reach up and the trident would fall down into his hand and then transform into LTTP Ganon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd like that move a lot better if it wasn't called 'Slap'.

 

[Neanderthal]

I think Ganondorf has a lot more potential being a magic hand to hand fighter. One move I would really like to see is his back hand technique in OOT.

B-Slap
Ganondorf does a back-hand slap with glowing magical energy. It is very powerful but has shorter reach. Like Mario's cape it can reflect projectiles.

This is the idea I want for him. He doesn't need to put a lot of effort into his moves because they're enhance by magic and really shows his arrogance. I do like the trident idea but the trident is what turned him into Ganon. For a final smash I like to see him reach up and the trident would fall down into his hand and then transform into LTTP Ganon.

I would love to hear now a character who has never fought in any way other than through weapons and magic in his games has the most potential to be a hand to hand fighter.

Congratulations on thinking of one move that can be derived from his games to make a physical hit. Even though in that game he is deflecting an energy ball and never slaps anyone.
He needs a sword. Otherwise he's just not Ganondorf.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He needs a sword. Otherwise he's just not Ganondorf.

A sword he can use at least.

 

[Zuby]

I would love to hear now a character who has never fought in any way other than through weapons and magic in his games has the most potential to be a hand to hand fighter.

In fairness, he did slap Zelda in The Wind Waker.

 

[Diddy Kong]

And he held Link in his arms similar to how his Side B in Brawl works.

 

[Sharkarat]

Personaly I don't want ganondorf to use sword in smash, but would rather want him to just use more magic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hand to hand combat with magic as B moves and teleporting, plus a weapon for a FEW moves (say, maybe F Smash? and some others? Up Tilts?) would be the best thus far. Hand to hand combat would be based of Luigifed Captain Falcon moves. Moves in his Brawl moveset I think that should stay are: Side B, Forward Tilt and all aerials except for Neutral Air.

 

[Gallowglass]

I would love to hear now a character who has never fought in any way other than through weapons and magic in his games has the most potential to be a hand to hand fighter.

Congratulations on thinking of one move that can be derived from his games to make a physical hit. Even though in that game he is deflecting an energy ball and never slaps anyone.
He needs a sword. Otherwise he's just not Ganondorf.

Thanks for not reading my post completely. I was just giving an example of his fighting style "Which is moves that show little effort but deal a lot of power". They would single action attacks with very few repeating combos. These techniques would be enhance by magic and his Smash attacks would give off magical energy. Think of it as a DBZ villain who takes on an enemy who is far weaker then themselves.

If you make Ganondorf a slow powerful guy with a sword then you just made Ike. Have him dual wield like in Wind Waker and he wouldn't be the heaviest hitter in Smash.

Of course his other specials would be based more on his magic like his energy ball (which he has been using since the beginning), the dark cloud storm from OOT, and his levitation just to name a few.

@Diddy Kong: You mistaken when I said B-Slap. Its more like B**** Slap.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The dual blades would make him a rather defensive, counter-heavy character I'd feel. Which I think is totally awesome.

Maybe they'll go Diddy on him, giving him only one of the blades instead of both though?

So this:

Instead of this:

 

[Marddo]

I think he's fine how he is. Two swords would be cool though too.

The best new Zelda player would be Impa because she's been in more than two games. Can give her Sheiks moves too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think he's fine how he is. Two swords would be cool though too.

The best new Zelda player would be Impa because she's been in more than two games. Can give her Sheiks moves too.

Hereby I welcome you heartfully to the community!

HE LIKES IMPA GUYS!!!

 

[TheHandyman]

This thread's been around since last summer, and I didn't have much desire to read through it all, so I apologize if any of the things I'm going to say have already been covered (I haven't seen this discussion brought up in the last several pages' worth of material, at least). But now that the game's been in development for a year or more and we're getting closer to actually having a look at it, I've been more engaged in Smash Bros. stuff again. Recently I decided to start playing Brawl from scratch on the Wii U, and I realized something.

More than any other property represented in Smash Bros., it's going to be very interesting seeing how Nintendo handles the elements--the characters, specifically--of the Zelda series.

We've never had a Smash Bros. game that came out during such a deadtime in between Zelda releases. All previous Smash games followed within a year or so of the most recent Zelda game at that point in time. But by the time this game comes out (right now I'm expecting it to be Nintendo's holiday 2014 title), Skyward Sword will be three (or more!) years old, and who knows how far along Zelda U will be. I highly doubt Nintendo will let us get a glimpse of what Zelda U will look like by revealing the characters' styles in Smash Bros. 4. Therefore, the next logical thing to do would be to follow the Skyward Sword style. The problem is, following that style could bring unpleasant repercussions for one of my favorite characters....

Primarily I'm worried about Zelda herself. As I've been going through Brawl again, I remembered just how much I liked her character design from Twilight Princess, and how bitterly disappointed I was in her Skyward Sword look. Zelda's a princess, dammit! She's not some random village girl! If they stick her in that Skyward Sword outfit, I reeeeallly hope they have at least an alternate outfit for her as a princess. I want Princess Zelda back! Gimme back my princess, Nintendo! I'm tired of ugly anime chick Zelda. Unfortunately, I don't think Nintendo will reveal what Princess Zelda looks like in Zelda Wii U (they may not even have her design for that game done yet), so unless we go back to TP Zelda (which I wouldn't mind) or come up with something entirely different for Smash Bros. (which I don't think they'll do, but it'd be cool to see), I fear we're going to be stuck with ugly anime chick Zelda. Ugh.

This has repercussions for Sheik, too. I highly doubt they'll get rid of Sheik, but if they go by Skyward Sword, they may decide the time is right....

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Primarily I'm worried about Zelda herself. As I've been going through Brawl again, I remembered just how much I liked her character design from Twilight Princess, and how bitterly disappointed I was in her Skyward Sword look. Zelda's a princess, dammit! She's not some random village girl! If they stick her in that Skyward Sword outfit, I reeeeallly hope they have at least an alternate outfit for her as a princess. I want Princess Zelda back! Gimme back my princess, Nintendo! I'm tired of ugly anime chick Zelda. Unfortunately, I don't think Nintendo will reveal what Princess Zelda looks like in Zelda Wii U (they may not even have her design for that game done yet), so unless we go back to TP Zelda (which I wouldn't mind) or come up with something entirely different for Smash Bros. (which I don't think they'll do, but it'd be cool to see), I fear we're going to be stuck with ugly anime chick Zelda. Ugh.
.

Calm down dude. SS wasn't an anime look at all. If anything TP was closer to an anime style.

 

[Spire]

Hey guys, so if this new Mewthree turns out to be an alternate Mewtwo form, Sakurai can transfer the transformation gimmick from Zelda to Mewtwo and split Zelda and Sheik into Zelda and Impa!

Link
Zelda
Impa
Ganondorf
Toon Link

Mewtwo/Mewthree

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hey guys, so if this new Mewthree turns out to be an alternate Mewtwo form, Sakurai can transfer the transformation gimmick from Zelda to Mewtwo and split Zelda and Sheik into Zelda and Impa!

Link
Zelda
Impa
Ganondorf
Toon Link

Mewtwo/Mewthree

Diddy's gonna love this!

 

[Hickory]

I really doubt Sheik is going anywhere. He's been an integral part of Zelda's character for two games now, and his only actual appearance was in Ocarina of Time. Yes, he had an unused model in TP, but still - he's a pretty concrete part of the Smash franchise at this point.

 

[FalKoopa]

Why must all gimmicks be restricted to Pokémon characters?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why must all gimmicks be restricted to Pokémon characters?

I didn't know the Ice Climbers and Olimar were Pokemon!

 

[Neanderthal]

This thread's been around since last summer, and I didn't have much desire to read through it all, so I apologize if any of the things I'm going to say have already been covered (I haven't seen this discussion brought up in the last several pages' worth of material, at least). But now that the game's been in development for a year or more and we're getting closer to actually having a look at it, I've been more engaged in Smash Bros. stuff again. Recently I decided to start playing Brawl from scratch on the Wii U, and I realized something.

More than any other property represented in Smash Bros., it's going to be very interesting seeing how Nintendo handles the elements--the characters, specifically--of the Zelda series.

We've never had a Smash Bros. game that came out during such a deadtime in between Zelda releases. All previous Smash games followed within a year or so of the most recent Zelda game at that point in time. But by the time this game comes out (right now I'm expecting it to be Nintendo's holiday 2014 title), Skyward Sword will be three (or more!) years old, and who knows how far along Zelda U will be. I highly doubt Nintendo will let us get a glimpse of what Zelda U will look like by revealing the characters' styles in Smash Bros. 4. Therefore, the next logical thing to do would be to follow the Skyward Sword style. The problem is, following that style could bring unpleasant repercussions for one of my favorite characters....

Primarily I'm worried about Zelda herself. As I've been going through Brawl again, I remembered just how much I liked her character design from Twilight Princess, and how bitterly disappointed I was in her Skyward Sword look. Zelda's a princess, dammit! She's not some random village girl! If they stick her in that Skyward Sword outfit, I reeeeallly hope they have at least an alternate outfit for her as a princess. I want Princess Zelda back! Gimme back my princess, Nintendo! I'm tired of ugly anime chick Zelda. Unfortunately, I don't think Nintendo will reveal what Princess Zelda looks like in Zelda Wii U (they may not even have her design for that game done yet), so unless we go back to TP Zelda (which I wouldn't mind) or come up with something entirely different for Smash Bros. (which I don't think they'll do, but it'd be cool to see), I fear we're going to be stuck with ugly anime chick Zelda. Ugh.

This has repercussions for Sheik, too. I highly doubt they'll get rid of Sheik, but if they go by Skyward Sword, they may decide the time is right....

I also really dislike how Link looked in Skyward sword. Those baggy pants looked stupid, his face was too blunt and his hair too brown.

I don't know if you;ve seen last years E3 Zelda tech demo but I'd love it if they end up going with something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Lf4uVuE50
Link looks awesome and it has more of a Twilighty feel.

I agree especially about Zelda, and if there is nothing more recent than Skyward, I would really hope that alternate costumes are a bigger thing in SSB4 (Wario style allowing representations from different games).
It's especially needed now with characters like MewTwo, Zelda, Ganondorf and others getting big makeovers recently. You can't omit the recent incarnations, but you can't omit the classic looks... so I think they will have to rely more on alt costumes for some of these characters like they did for Wario is Brawl.





HOWEVER, I think it's unlikely to be as issue since as far as we know SSB4 is barely in early stages of development. And all that needs to happen is a trailer coming out that depicts Link and Zelda in their new incarnations before the characters models are finalised.

If history is anything to go by Smash games are usually released at the turn of the year (January for 64 and Brawl, late Nov for Melee).
It's not going to be ready by next Jan, so we have two more E3's to come before the character models are finalised.

Do you really think we will go through two more E3's without getting AT LEAST one Zelda trailer?

 

[Diddy Kong]

This thread's been around since last summer, and I didn't have much desire to read through it all, so I apologize if any of the things I'm going to say have already been covered (I haven't seen this discussion brought up in the last several pages' worth of material, at least). But now that the game's been in development for a year or more and we're getting closer to actually having a look at it, I've been more engaged in Smash Bros. stuff again. Recently I decided to start playing Brawl from scratch on the Wii U, and I realized something.

More than any other property represented in Smash Bros., it's going to be very interesting seeing how Nintendo handles the elements--the characters, specifically--of the Zelda series.

We've never had a Smash Bros. game that came out during such a deadtime in between Zelda releases. All previous Smash games followed within a year or so of the most recent Zelda game at that point in time. But by the time this game comes out (right now I'm expecting it to be Nintendo's holiday 2014 title), Skyward Sword will be three (or more!) years old, and who knows how far along Zelda U will be. I highly doubt Nintendo will let us get a glimpse of what Zelda U will look like by revealing the characters' styles in Smash Bros. 4. Therefore, the next logical thing to do would be to follow the Skyward Sword style. The problem is, following that style could bring unpleasant repercussions for one of my favorite characters....

Primarily I'm worried about Zelda herself. As I've been going through Brawl again, I remembered just how much I liked her character design from Twilight Princess, and how bitterly disappointed I was in her Skyward Sword look. Zelda's a princess, dammit! She's not some random village girl! If they stick her in that Skyward Sword outfit, I reeeeallly hope they have at least an alternate outfit for her as a princess. I want Princess Zelda back! Gimme back my princess, Nintendo! I'm tired of ugly anime chick Zelda. Unfortunately, I don't think Nintendo will reveal what Princess Zelda looks like in Zelda Wii U (they may not even have her design for that game done yet), so unless we go back to TP Zelda (which I wouldn't mind) or come up with something entirely different for Smash Bros. (which I don't think they'll do, but it'd be cool to see), I fear we're going to be stuck with ugly anime chick Zelda. Ugh.

This has repercussions for Sheik, too. I highly doubt they'll get rid of Sheik, but if they go by Skyward Sword, they may decide the time is right....

Aww c'mon dude. Skyward Sword characters ain't half that bad.

Besides, Impa instead of Sheik totally makes up for 'anime chick Zelda'

 

[Ove]

I have realised that my hype of awesome characters for Smash 4 has been fruitless. Now I have seen the great potential of Impa. I'll follow Diddy Kong's commitment and try to make everyone else comprehend the brilliancy of Impa.

I step out of the darkness with new knowledge after reading the whole Hyrule Historia (read it!) My conclusion is that Impa is perfect for Smash and definitely one of the most important characters in the Zelda franchise.

Impa for Smash 4 is really a no-brainer.

 

[FalKoopa]

I step out of the darkness with new knowledge after reading the whole Hyrule Historia (read it!).

Wow. You really have it? Or did you read it online?

 

[Ove]

Wow. You really have it? Or did you read it online?

I bought it. Thought it was a good investment (it wasn't even that expensive) since I really like all Zelda games!

Maybe I was too young to understand the story when I first played the games, but now it all makes sense (well, there are still some plot holes, but that's another story). Apperently, my view of Impa was faulty, she was far more important than I initially thought!