Zelda Franchise Discussion

[FooltheFlames]

Theres enough awesome characters in Zelda to make a whole Smash game in its self. I could list them all but that might take a whole page. LOL
Out of the popular characters I'd love to see Midna, Vaati, and Skull kid make it but I dont think Zelda's getting more than 5 or 6 characters this time around. I think Toon Link and Sheik are shoe ins. Then they'll probably throw in another Villian, making Zelda the only Franchise with 2 Villians. How Cool!
A personal favorite of mine is Saria but thats crazy fan boy talk her being in.

 

[jigglover]

Then they'll probably throw in another Villian, making Zelda the only Franchise with 2 Villians. How Cool!

..Unless Bowser junior gets in.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

I had this idea. It might be ridiculous, but I actually think it's one of the best ways to represent the series as a whole. and if it happened, I and I'm pretty sure many others would be perfectly happy with the roster.

Skyward Sword Style Link
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Twilight Princess Style Zelda/Shiek
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Ocarina of Time Style Ganondorf
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Wind Waker Style Toon Link
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Majora's Mask Skull Kid
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I know Skull Kid is really random and low tier when it comes to likelihood. But bear with me!

All five represent the Five Major 3D Zelda titles released to date. They're not the exact same art style copy/pasted as the games they came from.

But their attire/build/characteristics are influenced by the games. (Ala Toon Link in Brawl. Wasn't copy/paste cel shade). I'm hoping that's easy to understand haha

In this method, it represents a vast amount of the series.

I know this is incredibly unlikely. But if Sakurai came up to me personally, asking how the Zelda roster could represent the a large portion of the series, this is the idea I'd pitch to him haha. There's only been 5 major 3D console Zelda games. That's a decent amount of characters I think

What do you guys think? Not in terms of likelihood of course. But what if this happened?

 

[Spire]

^ That's a fantastic way to represent the series. All five main console games are represented.

However, I suspect Zelda 3DS to debut before Smash 4 and with that, a potential aesthetic/character may be borrowed. Sure, the roster is already decided upon. Doesn't mean a new Zelda element hasn't made it into Smash 4.

 

[jigglover]

Wow! I'd fiddle with them a bit though. I always preferred Zelda in OoT, so I'd switch her with Ganondorf. And Wind waker style skull - oh... wait.. How about sky- oh, no...

 

[lobotheduck21]

I had this idea. It might be ridiculous, but I actually think it's one of the best ways to represent the series as a whole. and if it happened, I and I'm pretty sure many others would be perfectly happy with the roster.

Skyward Sword Style Link
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[/COLLAPSE]
Twilight Princess Style Zelda/Shiek
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[/COLLAPSE]
Ocarina of Time Style Ganondorf
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[/COLLAPSE]
Wind Waker Style Toon Link
[COLLAPSE="Expand"]

[/COLLAPSE]
Majora's Mask Skull Kid
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[/COLLAPSE]


I know Skull Kid is really random and low tier when it comes to likelihood. But bear with me!

All five represent the Five Major 3D Zelda titles released to date. They're not the exact same art style copy/pasted as the games they came from.

But their attire/build/characteristics are influenced by the games. (Ala Toon Link in Brawl. Wasn't copy/paste cel shade). I'm hoping that's easy to understand haha

In this method, it represents a vast amount of the series.

I know this is incredibly unlikely. But if Sakurai came up to me personally, asking how the Zelda roster could represent the a large portion of the series, this is the idea I'd pitch to him haha. There's only been 5 major 3D console Zelda games. That's a decent amount of characters I think

What do you guys think? Not in terms of likelihood of course. But what if this happened?

If I could give you an award i could, in fact...

 

[Ember Reaper]

I think it's gonna come down to choosing between:
Ghirahim - most recent villain with strong fanbase
Vaati - most recurring villain after ganondorf
Toon Zelda/Tetra - planned for Brawl, next most important hero of the series
Tingle - had his own games

Then for all the talk he's got Skull kid could be thrown in the mix too
with preference going how I listed them with skull kid between Vaati and Toon Zelda
I want another villain from this series..

 

[pokémoneinstein]

I don't get why people think SS Link is so different from TP Link. It's the same design, just with pants and cel-shading. If he were the style chosen in Smash 4, it would translate into the game's design just the way Toon Link did, and end up looking hardly different from Brawl's Link

 

[SmashShadow]

I'm starting to warm up more and more to the idea of Impa replacing Sheik.

-The separation of Zelda and Sheik would free up down B for both parties(although I'd get rid of chain too cause yuck). These could be replaced by her blue bomb and that blue barrier.
-She would essentially take over Sheik's entire moveset.
-Sheik has only been in 1 Zelda game and by the time Smash 4 comes out she'll have over 15 years of non-relevancy under her belt.
-Impa has been in 5 games and the most recent of the Zelda Franchise.
-A big chunk of Sheik's popularity stems mainly from her playstyle/moveset.
-Lastly, I feel that Sheik just outshines Zelda and she just get pushed into the background and them being separated would better allow for her shine as her own character.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I vote for Link, Zelda/Sheik, Impa and Ghirahim all in Skyward Sword outfit as basic appearance, but with alt costumes like Toon Link, Young Link ecc ecc
Ganondorf in Twilight Princess or MAYBE Wind Waker outfit with a new moveset.

And finally Skull Kid just to freak all out.

Yes, three new reps. Too much? **** it, it's the most important franchise after Mario.

 

[jigglover]

...and Pokemon. The sales go like this:
Mario
Pokemon
LoZ
DK
If you count the mii as a series, then Miis are more important than LoZ as well! (But not Pokemon thank god.)

 

[Vintage Creep]

...and Pokemon. The sales go like this:
Mario
Pokemon
LoZ
DK
If you count the mii as a series, then Miis are more important than LoZ as well! (But not Pokemon thank god.)

Well I was talking in artistic values, in which I find Zelda as the most important of all actually. But yes, third place justifies three new reps if you ask me.

 

[jigglover]

Plus, LoZ already got 3 new reps at once in melee, how much do you think it's entitled to?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The problem with LoZ isn't that it doesn't deserve new new reps, it's that there aren't many characters who really could be considered worthy. Most of the true recurring characters are already present, so all that's left are B- and C-listers with sporadic appearances throughout the series.

Also, don't you dare cut Toon Link.

 

[Ember Reaper]

Sheik is still relevant she was just in Ocarina of Time 3DS.
I'd prefer having impa as an alternate costume to sheik with skwyard sword zelda as an alternate in respect to impa.

 

[Deleted member]

Zelda already has its core cast (Triforce Trio) and two extras (Sheik and a 2nd Link).
The only other character that honestly would complete it is Tingle, but his likeliness doesn't look too good with his stark hatred in America, and the fact he could be percieved as someone who is implausible to have fighting by Sakurai.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Zelda already has its core cast (Triforce Trio) and two extras (Sheik and a 2nd Link).
The only other character that honestly would complete it is Tingle, but his likeliness doesn't look too good with his stark hatred in Americ, and the fact he could be percieved as someone who is implausible to have fighting by Sakurai.

This guy knows what's up.

 

[Frostwraith]

Sheik is still relevant she was just in Ocarina of Time 3DS.
I'd prefer having impa as an alternate costume to sheik with skwyard sword zelda as an alternate in respect to impa.

much like they did a Twilight Princess-styled Sheik during TP's development that was used in Brawl, they could make a Skyward Sword styled Sheik created specifically for SSB4 based on Impa's design from the same game. it's not like they didn't make designs purposely made for the SSB series before, a good example being Pit, but Fox and Falco's designs are also worth mentioning.

 

[SmashShadow]

Sheik is still relevant she was just in Ocarina of Time 3DS.
I'd prefer having impa as an alternate costume to sheik with skwyard sword zelda as an alternate in respect to impa.

She's made a recent appearance in a remake. A remake doesn't make her relevant to the series any more than she already was. Ocarina of Time and OoT3DS are both the same game in terms to the story. She will still be a 15 year old character it relation to Zelda games with only one real appearance in the storyline.

If it was me:
+ Vaati and Impa(b4 you say anything I barely know the characters)
- Sheik.

Vaati as a co-rep from the toon series. He is the second most recurring antagonist in the Zelda games. Not only this but he's not a Toon version of the triforce wielders and would prevent what i like to call "copy roster".

Impa because of the reasons I put on the last page.

 

[Deleted member]

They are not core characters, though.
Only Link, Zelda, and Ganon(dorf) are core characters to the series. Tingle is the closest one to break away from non-core characters, as he's a core character in his own right due to his spin-off games.

And to replace Sheik, who is a part of Zelda, with Impa for the sole purpose of "relevancy" is quite stupid.
You take away Sheik, you take away the gimmick that defines Zelda in Smash.

 

[Ember Reaper]

They are not core characters, though.
Only Link, Zelda, and Ganon(dorf) are core characters to the series. Tingle is the closest one to break away from non-core characters, as he's a core character in his own right due to his spin-off games.

And to replace Sheik, who is a part of Zelda, with Impa for the sole purpose of "relevancy" is quite stupid.
You take away Sheik, you take away the gimmick that defines Zelda in Smash.

Exactly. That's why I'm debating whether a new Zelda rep is even unnecessary. There's possibilities, but All Stars... we got them already

 

[Frostwraith]

They are not core characters, though.
Only Link, Zelda, and Ganon(dorf) are core characters to the series. Tingle is the closest one to break away from non-core characters, as he's a core character in his own right due to his spin-off games.

And to replace Sheik, who is a part of Zelda, with Impa for the sole purpose of "relevancy" is quite stupid.
You take away Sheik, you take away the gimmick that defines Zelda in Smash.

I second this. Yes, Sheik may not be an important character for the Zelda series, but is part of Zelda's moveset and what makes her unique among the Smash roster, especially in Melee.

Zelda's Down B is representative of her role in Ocarina of Time, much like her Final Smash references her weapon of choice in the battles against Ganon in both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. this said, even if Zelda has Skyward Sword's design in the new Smash Bros., that should stop her from having her special moves and Final Smash.

it's the same story when Zelda in Brawl was revealed to have her Twilght Princess design: it didn't stop Sheik from being in. therefore, it's not because of her new design they will change drastically her moveset, specially when they can design Sheik in the same artstyle as Skyward Sword, it's as simple as hiring the same designer to do the job.

 

[jigglover]

What I'm seeing here is that the main cast only should be in. This is: Link, Zelda (no Sheik), Ganon(dorf), Toon Link, Toon Zelda (?) (no Tetra).
Would this make you happy?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Zelda's Down B is representative of her role in Ocarina of Time, much like her Final Smash references her weapon of choice in the battles against Ganon in both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. this said, even if Zelda has Skyward Sword's design in the new Smash Bros., that should stop her from having her special moves and Final Smash.

it's the same story when Zelda in Brawl was revealed to have her Twilght Princess design: it didn't stop Sheik from being in. therefore, it's not because of her new design they will change drastically her moveset, specially when they can design Sheik in the same artstyle as Skyward Sword, it's as simple as hiring the same designer to do the job.

It's been my opinion that the versions of Zelda and Link in Smash are suppposed to be almagamations of all their different incarnations up to that point. So it would make perfect sense to me, even if Zelda is visually based on her SS design, that she took some inspiration from OoT.

 

[lobotheduck21]

What I'm seeing here is that the main cast only should be in. This is: Link, Zelda (no Sheik), Ganon(dorf), Toon Link, Toon Zelda (?) (no Tetra).
Would this make you happy?

No, sheik makes zelda unique and fun to play, and the only way I'll take toon zelda is if it is in the armor in spirit tracks

 

[jigglover]

But Sheik isn't one of the main cast, he must go!
Toon Zelda has been in plenty of Zelda games (3 I think, no remakes) which is more than Vaati.

 

[Frostwraith]

But Sheik isn't one of the main cast, he must go!
Toon Zelda has been in plenty of Zelda games (3 I think, no remakes) which is more than Vaati.

technically, Sheik is. it's obvious that Sheik is Zelda, so there. I see both Zelda and Sheik as the same character, because they are the same, just with a different identity: Zelda uses her magic to adopt a different look, but she is still the same Zelda.

this said, I don't think Sheik will leave Smash Bros., because it's as some said, Link and Zelda in Smash aren't any specific Link or Zelda from the series, but composite characters that draw from their many incarnation... and Sheik is part of Zelda's abilities, so why would that part of Zelda be removed after two Smash Bros. games? it doesn't make sense.

by the way... Vaati has appeared in 3 games: Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures and Minish Cap. anyway, you're still right about Zelda appearing more than Vaati, she's appeared in: Wind Waker, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, meaning a total of six games.

 

[jigglover]

Wow, I now understand. Good job! B)
I'v eonly played wind waker, pahntom hourglass and spirit tracks with T. Zelda in so that's why, but thanks!

 

[SmashShadow]

They are not core characters, though.
Only Link, Zelda, and Ganon(dorf) are core characters to the series. Tingle is the closest one to break away from non-core characters, as he's a core character in his own right due to his spin-off games.

And to replace Sheik, who is a part of Zelda, with Impa for the sole purpose of "relevancy" is quite stupid.
You take away Sheik, you take away the gimmick that defines Zelda in Smash.

Yes, but should a gimmick be the only reason people play as that character? Sheik is essentially her own character anyways. I don't think it's stupid in the least to have people want to play as Zelda for the sole purpose of playing as her instead of Sheik. Like I said, if Impa got her moveset she'd barely if at all be missed.

The majority of the people who play competitive will play as Sheik. Sure Sheik is a transformation she used but the overarching character is Zelda and she is seemingly pushed into the background

Also I feel like this belongs here.
Link: 16 Games
Zelda: 14 Games
Ganon(dorf): 10 Games 11 if you count Demise
Tingle: 5 Games 4 spin-offs
Impa: 6 Games
Vaati: 3 Games

I did not count remakes or non-zelda games.

 

[Frostwraith]

Yes, but should a gimmick be the only reason people play as that character? Sheik is essentially her own character anyways. I don't think it's stupid in the least to have people want to play as Zelda for the sole purpose of playing as her instead of Sheik. Like I said, if Impa got her moveset she'd barely if at all be missed.

The majority of the people who play competitive will play as Sheik. Sure Sheik is a transformation she used but the overarching character is Zelda and she is seemingly pushed into the background

Also I feel like this belongs here.
Link: 16 Games
Zelda: 14 Games
Ganon(dorf): 10 Games 11 if you count Demise
Tingle: 5 Games 4 spin-offs
Impa: 6 Games
Vaati: 3 Games

I did not count remakes or non-zelda games.

anything that has to do with competitive gameplay is irrelevant as to which characters are added or removed, so here's one flaw in your argument.

just because some people treat the game like it's serious business, it doesn't mean the entire fandom is like that.

 

[SmashShadow]

anything that has to do with competitive gameplay is irrelevant as to which characters are added or removed, so here's one flaw in your argument.

just because some people treat the game like it's serious business, it doesn't mean the entire fandom is like that.

It's not just competitive players but also casuals too. Many of them drift to mainly playing one or the other instead of both. They might switch every now and then but the majority of the time they will play as the one they're most comfortable with.

The point is, if you miss playing as Sheik you could always just play as Impa. If you don't like playing as Zelda because she doesn't have Sheik than you never really liked playing as Zelda in the first place.

 

[Frostwraith]

It's not just competitive players but also casuals too. Many of them drift to mainly playing one or the other instead of both. They might switch every now and then but the majority of the time they will play as the one they're most comfortable with.

The point is, if you miss playing as Sheik you could always just play as Impa. If you don't like playing as Zelda because she doesn't have Sheik than you never really liked playing as Zelda in the first place.

whenever I play as Zelda, I tend to use the transformation move to change strategies, so... I guess you understand my position.

 

[Deleted member]

And yet Sheilda playstyles end up doing better than Zelda or Sheik alone.

 

[SmashShadow]

And yet Sheilda playstyles end up doing better than Zelda or Sheik alone.

Of course they do. It only makes sense seeing as they have 2 movesets to choose from mid battle. Your opponent not only has to adapt to one moveset but have to change how they play to match the others when they switch. Not only that but each has their own group of better match ups and worse ones.

ex. Zelda does better against Ice climbers than Sheik does.

@Frostwraith Just wondering but do you switch between them when you are winning with one of them, losing with one of them or randomly?

Some of this probably stems from my preference of fully separate characters from their transformation/partner characters(ZSS, Sheik and the 3 Pokemon). I just feel like them being tied to each other doesn't do them justice individually when you can just switch between them mid battle whenever it suits you. However this presents a problem for me though because I don't see Ivysaur staying if he's not part of the Pokemon Trio of Pokemon Trainer and I enjoy playing as all 3. But regardless I don't find this likely to happen. It could but not likely.

 

[jigglover]

Just for the record smashshadow, you want sheik cut and for Impa to inherit her move-set. You want ZSS cut and her move-set to have been a waste of time. And you want PT seperated into three seperate character slots. Seriously, what is the point of replacing characters in smash unless they were joke characters (Pichu) or were always meant to have been replaced when they got in (young link). Sheik is not a joke character, she clearly wasn't meant to be replaced when she got in, and my third reason, which has yet to happen, being universally hated in smash, also doesn't apply to Sheik. Sheik will not be cut by time-restraints unless Zelda is as well, and they won't be, because they will be high on the priority list, period. Sheik is even more relevant than Impa right now! And Sheik actually moves the story along, Impa is just a strange side character. Being the casual LoZ gamer I am (and not knowing how substantial she was in OoT due to never playing it) I didn't even notice that that woman was impa in skyward sword, I just thought it was a weird side character... Sheik is in lots of young people's minds that are new to smash due to OoT3D (how I need to get that game) and who never had the chance to play OoT. Impa on the other hand, is only really recognizable in OoT, like Sheik, and since Sheik is more important in the story-line in the game, it pushes Impa into obscurity. And I don't know about you, but I have this feeling that Sheik will return, the Impa on Zelda's dress in TP makes me think that Sheik was supposed to be in TP (and had a design that was used in brawl) and how would you include Sheik in SS? Impa on the other hand...

 

[SmashShadow]

Just for the record smashshadow, you want sheik cut and for Impa to inherit her move-set. You want ZSS cut and her move-set to have been a waste of time. And you want PT seperated into three seperate character slots. Seriously, what is the point of replacing characters in smash unless they were joke characters (Pichu) or were always meant to have been replaced when they got in (young link). Sheik is not a joke character, she clearly wasn't meant to be replaced when she got in, and my third reason, which has yet to happen, being universally hated in smash, also doesn't apply to Sheik. Sheik will not be cut by time-restraints unless Zelda is as well, and they won't be, because they will be high on the priority list, period. Sheik is even more relevant than Impa right now! And Sheik actually moves the story along, Impa is just a strange side character. Being the casual LoZ gamer I am (and not knowing how substantial she was in OoT due to never playing it) I didn't even notice that that woman was impa in skyward sword, I just thought it was a weird side character... Sheik is in lots of young people's minds that are new to smash due to OoT3D (how I need to get that game) and who never had the chance to play OoT. Impa on the other hand, is only really recognizable in OoT, like Sheik, and since Sheik is more important in the story-line in the game, it pushes Impa into obscurity. And I don't know about you, but I have this feeling that Sheik will return, the Impa on Zelda's dress in TP makes me think that Sheik was supposed to be in TP (and had a design that was used in brawl) and how would you include Sheik in SS? Impa on the other hand...

1st: Never said i wanted ZSS to be cut. She could easiliy stand alone without the suit. All she would need is a final smash. I already gave my reasons for not wanting characters to switch out mid battle.
2nd: If you didn't know that was Impa in Skyward sword then that's your stupidity, not mine. I'm pretty sure everybody else noticed her.
3rd: Sheik having a big role in Oot has no bearing on Impa being less noticeable.
Sheik does not "push Impa into obscurity", she simply doesn't have as big of a role as her in that game.
4th: Impa has been in more than just Skyward sword and OoT. She's been in 6 games.
She is 1/7 characters that appear multiple times throughout the series. The other characters are Zelda, Link, Ganon(dorf), Tingle, Dark link and Vaati.
5th: Using the fact that Sheik was given a TP look to keep up with Zelda's TP look in brawl gives absolutely no evidence she was planned for TP.
6th: When I say relevant, I'm talking about within the Zelda series. OoT3DS is still the same game story-wise as the OoT from 1998. Appearing in the same game doesn't make her any more relevant within her own series.

Lastly: I said, I don't expect this to happen.

 

[jigglover]

1st: Never said i wanted ZSS to be cut. She could easiliy stand alone without the suit. All she would need is a final smash. I already gave my reasons for not wanting characters to switch out mid battle.
2nd: If you didn't know that was Impa in Skyward sword then that's your stupidity, not mine. I'm pretty sure everybody else noticed her.
3rd: Sheik having a big role in Oot has no bearing on Impa being less noticeable.
Sheik does not "push Impa into obscurity", she simply doesn't have as big of a role as her in that game.
4th: Impa has been in more than just Skyward sword and OoT. She's been in 6 games.
She is 1/7 characters that appear multiple times throughout the series. The other characters are Zelda, Link, Ganon(dorf), Tingle, Dark link and Vaati.
5th: Using the fact that Sheik was given a TP look to keep up with Zelda's TP look in brawl gives absolutely no evidence she was planned for TP.
6th: When I say relevant, I'm talking about within the Zelda series. OoT3DS is still the same game story-wise as the OoT from 1998. Appearing in the same game doesn't make her any more relevant within her own series.

Lastly: I said, I don't expect this to happen.

1st: Samus and ZSS are quite literally the same actual people, that would not work.
2nd: You completely ignored me saying: 'Seriously, what is the point of replacing characters in smash unless they were joke characters (Pichu) or were always meant to have been replaced when they got in (young link). Sheik is not a joke character, she clearly wasn't meant to be replaced when she got in, and my third reason, which has yet to happen, being universally hated in smash, also doesn't apply to Sheik. Sheik will not be cut by time-restraints unless Zelda is as well, and they won't be, because they will be high on the priority list, period.'
3rd: I'm pretty sure not everyone else knew Impa was in Skyward sword. I still don't know if it was the young woman, the old woman or both. :/
4th: Well, Sheik and Impa are both Sheika, (I've done my research :D) and Sheik is more relevant and important than Impa. This, in a way, a large way, pushes Impa into obscurity. Not to mention that people will actually recognize Sheik because of smash and the fact she actually keeps a body, unlike Impa.
5th: She is 1/9 characters, Toon Link and Toon Zelda included. This does not help your argument, because Vaati, Toon Zelda, Tingle and even Dark Link have a larger bearing on the series than her, especially Dark Link. Dark Link gets in, then I'll happily let Impa in after Oocoo!
6th: I read somewhere that Sheik was planned, and as aforementioned, the Sheika symbol was on Zelda's dress (I've really done my research!) implying he was supposed to get in. If he did end up cut (due to time restraints or something) and since he would have been unable to get into SS without looking desperate, he should be in the next Zelda game me thinks.
7th: I was also talking relevant story-wise, but not as literally as you. Sheik, over-all, is one of the most important characters in the LoZ timeline. OoT is where it splits into adult and young Link time-lines, and Sheik, in a way, created the Young Link time-line by giving Adult Link the powers to transform into his younger self. Without Sheik, we would not have wind waker, spirit tracks and numerous other games. This is improved, since the younger generation of casual gamers now know this due to OoT3D not to mention being more popular due to OoT3D meaning there will be a large back-lash by both young, old, hard-core and casual gamers if Sheik is cut.
8th: What does this mean? I said, I don't expect this to happen. What to happen?

 

[SmashShadow]

1st: Samus and ZSS are quite literally the same actual people, that would not work.
2nd: You completely ignored me saying: 'Seriously, what is the point of replacing characters in smash unless they were joke characters (Pichu) or were always meant to have been replaced when they got in (young link). Sheik is not a joke character, she clearly wasn't meant to be replaced when she got in, and my third reason, which has yet to happen, being universally hated in smash, also doesn't apply to Sheik. Sheik will not be cut by time-restraints unless Zelda is as well, and they won't be, because they will be high on the priority list, period.'
3rd: I'm pretty sure not everyone else knew Impa was in Skyward sword. I still don't know if it was the young woman, the old woman or both. :/
4th: Well, Sheik and Impa are both Sheika, (I've done my research :D) and Sheik is more relevant and important than Impa. This, in a way, a large way, pushes Impa into obscurity. Not to mention that people will actually recognize Sheik because of smash and the fact she actually keeps a body, unlike Impa.
5th: She is 1/9 characters, Toon Link and Toon Zelda included. This does not help your argument, because Vaati, Toon Zelda, Tingle and even Dark Link have a larger bearing on the series than her, especially Dark Link. Dark Link gets in, then I'll happily let Impa in after Oocoo!
6th: I read somewhere that Sheik was planned, and as aforementioned, the Sheika symbol was on Zelda's dress (I've really done my research!) implying he was supposed to get in. If he did end up cut (due to time restraints or something) and since he would have been unable to get into SS without looking desperate, he should be in the next Zelda game me thinks.
7th: I was also talking relevant story-wise, but not as literally as you. Sheik, over-all, is one of the most important characters in the LoZ timeline. OoT is where it splits into adult and young Link time-lines, and Sheik, in a way, created the Young Link time-line by giving Adult Link the powers to transform into his younger self. Without Sheik, we would not have wind waker, spirit tracks and numerous other games. This is improved, since the younger generation of casual gamers now know this due to OoT3D not to mention being more popular due to OoT3D meaning there will be a large back-lash by both young, old, hard-core and casual gamers if Sheik is cut.
8th: What does this mean? I said, I don't expect this to happen. What to happen?

1st: Yet you suggest Baby Mario Bros. and we have already had 2 Mario's and had 3 different Link's. At least ZSS doesn't play like Samus in the least.
2nd: You'd be replacing a one shot character with a character who has at least proven to show up multiple times in the series over one who at this point is probably unlikely to be seen again within her own series outside of OoT.
3rd: The fact that her name was said multiple times in the game and that you still don't get that the old lady is Impa shows you didn't pay attention. The bacelet Zelda gave her is on the old woman so duh, it's Impa.
For example:
http://youtu.be/hJBMUyekvhk?t=46s
http://youtu.be/BDqqm6rhF-s Pretty much the entire scene here mentions her name several times.
4th: How is Sheik more relevant and important than Impa. Have you actually looked up what Impa has done in comparison to Sheik?
5th: Toon Zelda and Toon link are still Zelda and Link. Dark link is already in Smash as an alt costume for Link. It's not like he has any different moves from Link anyways so why would he need his own character?
This makes 4/7 of the recurring cast already in Brawl. I don't want Toon Zelda and Toon Ganon in too because it's a restatement of the Zelda cast we already have. Toon link is already scrutinized enough because he's a copy link. You wanna throw copy Zelda and Ganon on top of that. I would much rather a unique character.
6th: I doubt she's going be in the next game. She wasn't in the last 10+ regardless of if she was planned for TP or not.
7th: That is essentially a Ghirahim arguement. She may have allowed for these storylines to occur but other than that she had no direct effect on what happened in any of them whatsoever. And technically, if were going to use arguments like that, then Impa's actions in SS effected the rest of the time-line too.
8th: It means I don't expect Sheik to get cut for Impa or Pokemon trainers pokemon to split up or ZSS Samus to detatch. It could happen, but it's not likely to.

 

[jigglover]

1st: Yet you suggest Baby Mario Bros. and we have already had 2 Mario's and had 3 different Link's. At least ZSS doesn't play like Samus in the least.
2nd: You'd be replacing a one shot character with a character who has at least proven to show up multiple times in the series over one who at this point is probably unlikely to be seen again within her own series outside of OoT.
3rd: The fact that her name was said multiple times in the game and that you still don't get that the old lady is Impa shows you didn't pay attention. The bacelet Zelda gave her is on the old woman so duh, it's Impa.
For example:
http://youtu.be/hJBMUyekvhk?t=46s
http://youtu.be/BDqqm6rhF-s Pretty much the entire scene here mentions her name several times.
4th: How is Sheik more relevant and important than Impa. Have you actually looked up what Impa has done in comparison to Sheik?
5th: Toon Zelda and Toon link are still Zelda and Link. Dark link is already in Smash as an alt costume for Link. It's not like he has any different moves from Link anyways so why would he need his own character?
This makes 4/7 of the recurring cast already in Brawl. I don't want Toon Zelda and Toon Ganon in too because it's a restatement of the Zelda cast we already have. Toon link is already scrutinized enough because he's a copy link. You wanna throw copy Zelda and Ganon on top of that. I would much rather a unique character.
6th: I doubt she's going be in the next game. She wasn't in the last 10+ regardless of if she was planned for TP or not.
7th: That is essentially a Ghirahim arguement. She may have allowed for these storylines to occur but other than that she had no direct effect on what happened in any of them whatsoever. And technically, if were going to use arguments like that, then Impa's actions in SS effected the rest of the time-line too.
8th: It means I don't expect Sheik to get cut for Impa or Pokemon trainers pokemon to split up or ZSS Samus to detatch. It could happen, but it's not likely to.

1st: You still ignored my argument saying: Seriously, what is the point of replacing characters in smash unless they were joke characters (Pichu) or were always meant to have been replaced when they got in (young link). Sheik is not a joke character, she clearly wasn't meant to be replaced when she got in, and my third reason, which has yet to happen, being universally hated in smash, also doesn't apply to Sheik.
2nd: Toon Link isn't the same person as TP Link, and I for one have never, ever seen any hatred for toon link or young link. When you said we already have 3 Links in smash, they're all different people, and one has been cut already!
3rd: So Ice climbers will be replaced by a retro with multiple games, as will GaW. Not to mention R.O.B will be replaced by Mii, they're both hard-ware characters, but Mii has been in several games!
4th: I didn't pay much attention, no, as I said, I'm a casual LoZ gamer. This doesn't mean I'm not doing research about the series. May I ask in what game did Zelda give Impa the bracelet? OoT (which I haven't played).
5th: Sheik created a whole new story-line for the series! I take it Impa didn't create the adult line? Saying Impa's actions might have caused Ghirahim to do such and such is no argument at all. The person who actually does the action takes the glory so to speak. Say in football (soccer), the person who passes or crosses the ball to the person that scores the goal doesn't get much recognition, the person that actually kicks or heads it into the goal does, even if the cross practically scored it anyway.
6th: As said before, Toon zelda and Toon Link aren't the same Zelda or Link as adult Zelda or Link. Why can't Impa just be an alt. costume for Zelda and Sheik, like Dark Link is for Link? It's not like she has any different moves from Sheik anyways so why would she need her own character?
7th: If Sheik was meant to fade into obscurity then why was she kept in brawl? She was probably planned for TP and so Nintendo must have plans for her in the future.
8th: As I said before, Impa didn't actually have much relevance to the SS or the rest of the story-line. I agree, it sounds like a Ghirahim argument, and it is, so why not keep Sheik in and add Ghirahim. That comment didn't help your case at all. She might have had no effect on what happened in them (apart from giving Link several abilities he used later on in the series I believe) but despite having no bearing on what happened after creating them, it can still be considered her time-line.
9th: Why the hell are we arguing about this then?

 

[SmashShadow]

1st: You still ignored my argument saying: Seriously, what is the point of replacing characters in smash unless they were joke characters (Pichu) or were always meant to have been replaced when they got in (young link). Sheik is not a joke character, she clearly wasn't meant to be replaced when she got in, and my third reason, which has yet to happen, being universally hated in smash, also doesn't apply to Sheik.
2nd: Toon Link isn't the same person as TP Link, and I for one have never, ever seen any hatred for toon link or young link. When you said we already have 3 Links in smash, they're all different people, and one has been cut already!
3rd: So Ice climbers will be replaced by a retro with multiple games, as will GaW. Not to mention R.O.B will be replaced by Mii, they're both hard-ware characters, but Mii has been in several games!
4th: I didn't pay much attention, no, as I said, I'm a casual LoZ gamer. This doesn't mean I'm not doing research about the series. May I ask in what game did Zelda give Impa the bracelet? OoT (which I haven't played).
5th: Sheik created a whole new story-line for the series! I take it Impa didn't create the adult line? Saying Impa's actions might have caused Ghirahim to do such and such is no argument at all. The person who actually does the action takes the glory so to speak. Say in football (soccer), the person who passes or crosses the ball to the person that scores the goal doesn't get much recognition, the person that actually kicks or heads it into the goal does, even if the cross practically scored it anyway.
6th: As said before, Toon zelda and Toon Link aren't the same Zelda or Link as adult Zelda or Link. Why can't Impa just be an alt. costume for Zelda and Sheik, like Dark Link is for Link? It's not like she has any different moves from Sheik anyways so why would she need her own character?
7th: If Sheik was meant to fade into obscurity then why was she kept in brawl? She was probably planned for TP and so Nintendo must have plans for her in the future.
8th: As I said before, Impa didn't actually have much relevance to the SS or the rest of the story-line. I agree, it sounds like a Ghirahim argument, and it is, so why not keep Sheik in and add Ghirahim. That comment didn't help your case at all. She might have had no effect on what happened in them (apart from giving Link several abilities he used later on in the series I believe) but despite having no bearing on what happened after creating them, it can still be considered her time-line.
9th: Why the hell are we arguing about this then?

1st: I already addressed that!
2nd: All Links are essentially link regardless of what time period they are from. As for Toon Link, there are a couple of people who think he should be taken out cause he's a clone, would rather he be replaced or are expecting him to be removed. Just look throughout this thread and you'll see.
3rd: Retros can't be used in this argument because they aren't put in the because of number of appearances but rather history with Nintendo as well as favorites of Sakurai himself.
4th: ...Skyward Sword: http://youtu.be/BDqqm6rhF-s?t=6m58s
6:58-9:56 explains everything
5th: Toon Zelda and Toon link encompass a different art style and several time periods. If you look at the timeline, several Toon Links pop up and in not only the adult era but in the child era and before OoT too. Not every Toon Zelda and Toon link is the same. Spirit tracks takes place 100 years after phantom hourglass. They are Zelda and Link, just in a different art style. Also, impa does have a few moves Sheik doesn't have as i stated in my first post about 2 pages back. Plus, this would let her have her own Final smash
6th: Not sure. But lots of people doubted she was even going to be in brawl. Even so, from the the transition from brawl to SSB4 she has had no more of a role than she's already had. Brawl is almost 5 years old. You'd think that if anything was planned for her she would've already been in something by now.
7th: Impa did play a large role in SS granted not as large as Ghirahim, Zelda and link but was around as big as Groose's, probably a little larger. Ghirahim is a one-shot character who may never show up in another Zelda game. I find no need to add him in over recurring cast members. I still don't think you can count that as her time period simply because she taught link how to go into the past.
8th: That's what I was getting at.