Zelda Custom Move Thread ~ Let's talk about those other moves...

[BJN39]

So I've decided to start this thread for the purpose of custom move talk for Zelda.

Here, we can discuss any competitive usefulness of alternative customs, where they could be used MU-wise for better use than their original counterparts, what are her best sets, etc.

Also, then we can keep all out custom talk controlled more to one thread. Since there has been plenty of customs discussion that has been easily lost in the pages of other threads.

I would like it if we could also come up with and have Zelda's best overall custom sets as well.

DISCUSS.

I personally think Nayru's and FW customs shouldn't be considered for use at all.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I like the concept of the mine setting dins, I think its called blaze, but I haven't had a chance to test it in anyway against people

 

[Rion]

Yeah, Nayru's and Farore's are basically the best of the bunch. Although I did hear he Farore spike one kills even earlier than the usual one (someone even made a video about it I believe?) but frankly I feel like it's still too big a sacrifice to make.

I just wish Din's Blaze was like Shiek's string bomb, where after setting it, Zelda could move a bit before the actual explosion. That would have made it a bajillion times more useful. Flare to me seems even more useless than Fire, because of it's ridiculously linear trajectory and immensely small explosion radius (as if Din's wasn't predictable enough)! It's just asking to be avoided.

Phantom Breaker to me feels like one of the better ones! Though some people seem to swear by Phantom Strike (which apparently doesn't KO as well-? But since it's so close to her you never have to worry about blind spots).

All in all, nothing hugely game changing about her customs sadly. Not like Samus or Ganondorf!

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I think faroes spike could be situational option for characters that always recover low and close to the stage, like shulk or marcina. Because then they are always near the optimal space to be spiked.

 

[BJN39]

Yeah, Nayru's and Farore's are basically the best of the bunch. Although I did hear he Farore spike one kills even earlier than the usual one (someone even made a video about it I believe?) but frankly I feel like it's still too big a sacrifice to make.

I just wish Din's Blaze was like Shiek's string bomb, where after setting it, Zelda could move a bit before the actual explosion. That would have made it a bajillion times more useful. Flare to me seems even more useless than Fire, because of it's ridiculously linear trajectory and immensely small explosion radius (as if Din's wasn't predictable enough)! It's just asking to be avoided.

Phantom Breaker to me feels like one of the better ones! Though some people seem to swear by Phantom Strike (which apparently doesn't KO as well-? But since it's so close to her you never have to worry about blind spots).

All in all, nothing hugely game changing about her customs sadly. Not like Samus or Ganondorf!

I really want to believe Phantom breaker could be the better one, since shielding runs rampant. Even just getting most of their shiel gone with a med-small charge could at least throw then off, since they'd need to be more careful in shield.

Fun fact: according to the data, the hit-boxes for Phantom strike's slashes are actually LARGER than on the other two variations. Each hit-box is a little over a 'size' bigger.
Another fun thing with P.strike is that while the other two variations use a Sakurai angle, (roughly 45 degrees) it uses an angle of I think, 20. Which is way lower. Like, gimp potential.

I'm trying to think, though, where a range-less phantom could be used better in a MU than a ranged one.

 

[Alphatron]

I like phantom breaker a lot but to be honest, it's probably the worst version of the phantom.

When is your opponent going to shield the phantom? You're never using this move when they're standing on the stage because of how much endlag it has. You usually either use it to edge guard or you're tossing it out when your opponent is really far away (in the air). Either they jump over the move and air dodge it or it completely misses them. It also won't be breaking any shields unless you fully charge it. Even then, I've fully charged the move and just had it do high shield damage instead of giving my opponent a shield break.

Oh yeah, and when it does hit, it does less damage than the default phantom.

I swear by phantom strike because it's close range. The angle it sends opponents is fantastic for gimping, especially when they've already lost their second jump. It does a ton of damage and doesn't miss opponents standing right in front of you. The default variant is way too situational and most opponents will just fast fall air dodge when they see you charging it in order to recover low. Meanwhile, phantom strike, even when fully charged makes for a decent shield because it won't rush past an approaching opponent.

 

[Sugar Cookie]

I love Din's Blaze. If you put it on the ledge that forces them to recover from about do characters with High ending lag on their recovery are gonna hate it.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

I think phantom breaker is the best. If u get it on their shield that forces them to not use it and just having it can make them scared to sheild. I've gotten instances where the other player debates to shield or not. The range is also nice. It's decent for edge guarding and punishing landings.

Din's Blaze is so much better than dins fire. This is the closest we'll get to pm dins. You can force them to not grab the edge while recovering by putting it on the edge and also U can camp and take stage control considering the big size and hitbox. You can also force airdodges into the ground and punish.

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

I think phantom breaker is the best. If u get it on their shield that forces them to not use it and just having it can make them scared to sheild. I've gotten instances where the other player debates to shield or not. The range is also nice. It's decent for edge guarding and punishing landings.

Din's Blaze is so much better than dins fire. This is the closest we'll get to pm dins. You can force them to not grab the edge while recovering by putting it on the edge and also U can camp and take stage control considering the big size and hitbox. You can also force airdodges into the ground and punish.

I keep hearing this whole "force an airdodge and punish it with Din's" thing, but can someone show me it in use? Maybe it was useful back in Melee when airdodging made you helpless, maybe it was usable before it was common knowledge that nair practically guarantees Din's failure, but I've had NO luck in using Din's to get a ground punish in recent Smash iterations. If anything, it should be used as a surprise tool like much of Zelda's set - something to shoot off to mix up your playstyle, to sneak a kill when your opponent least expects it.

 

[Meek Moths]

I keep hearing this whole "force an airdodge and punish it with Din's" thing, but can someone show me it in use?

no, it's the other way around. you force an airdodge using DIns, and then punish the airdodge landing lag

 

[Eulette]

I reeeally wanted to like Zelda's customs, since they all seemed so cool in theory, but in practice I can't find any niche for most of them D: .

I still want to believe Nayru Rejection may have some use in specific matchups, not because of the cape effect, which is lacking, but because of the additional intangible frames at the beggining, maybe agaisnt lingering hitboxes? I dunno, I just really want to like this move, if just the windbox at the end had bigger effect then the move would be way less punishable.

I don't really understand the point of the Dins custom at all, Flare speed boost doesn't add anything at all, and Blaze leaves you exposed for too long, even by Din standards to justify the delayed shot. I'm sure default Din is still better for Doubles anyway.

But the phantom customs are neat at least! Phantom Breaker is a "decent" spacing move (better than Din anyway), but I hardly land hits with it outside of edgeguards : the hitbox is awkward and I still can't find a creative use for the pushing hitbox outside of situational edgeguards, In doubles though, the blind spot and pushing become 10x more useful :v.

Phantom Strike's angle is awesome though and it doesn't have a blindspot, but the short range makes it hard to land in outside of punishes and momentum shenanigans.

The second farore custom is clearly made for doubles and the meteor one could probably have more uses in doubles setups, or baiting an unaware Little Mac :V (If only it could be that easy...)

She really feels and plays more like a component of a doubles/quartets team than a character on her own looking at her specials :/
Oh well.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

I love dins flare. It can actually force approuchs and has good knockbacks like I've gotten kills at 100% with this. The speed and range are great and its just a direct upgrade from the default.

 

[LimitCrown]

I notice that the first hit of Farore's Windfall, compared to Farore's Wind, launches opponents when used in the air just as much as it launches opponents when used on the ground. It makes the second hit of Farore's Windfall more likely to connect compared to Farore's Wind if the first hit connects.

 

[Tyketto]

I like Nayru's Passion in concept (sucks in players and explodes, no reflect), but I haven't used it enough in practice to know how well it works. Anyone have experience with it?

 

[Alphatron]

Nayru's Passion is a 20+ frame move that offers no invincibility frames like the other two options and it doesn't KO until around the 190% range.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Nayru's Passion is strictly a troll move for use against bad players. Not unlike Zelda herself.

Din's Flare is somewhat on the same level of usefulness as Din's Fire to me. Blaze I really wanted to like, but the release lag pretty much makes it unusable.

In most matchups I swear by Phantom Strike. Even though the Phantom has a set minimal travel distance, the attack is still enormously disjointed. No character can really challenge the range of this attack and hit Zelda safely. It also provides a wall right in front of you to push foes out and keep Zelda safe.
An annoying thing about the default Phantom is that how much you can charge it is limited by the opponent's distance from you - the closer they are, the more likely you're forced into releasing it sooner and unleashing a weaker Phantom attack so it doesn't fly right past them, which is counterintuitive. Since Phantom Strike doesn't charge past opponents, there is no need to limit the charge time to avoid a deadzone. In this way you can use it like a weird sort of enormously disjointed Fsmash.
The KB is set and doesn't kill directly, but it does high damage (29 fully charged) and the launch angle is low to either set up gimps or gimp outright.
Phantom Strike charges up much faster than the other Phantoms. There is a huge disparity of effectiveness between the Phantom's lesser charge attacks vs the double swing at max charge, so a faster charge time is definitely a big asset.

Phantom Breaker I wish I could like, but doesn't seem good for much more than midrange poking. It doesn't really serve the shield breaking purpose. At less than full charge, the Phantom Breaker doesn't really noticeably do that much more shield damage than normal attacks. While a fully charged Phantom Breaker will break shields, this is only if the second swing is blocked, as all of the shield damage is concentrated in that blow. The two swings of a fully charged Phantom do not shield lock though, so a target blocking the first hit can roll away from the second and still have their shield almost entirely intact due to how easily you can see this coming.

 

[Macchiato]

Honestly, I looked into Farore's Windfall and I think its the best one. It works in the air, is reliable, and also kills early.
Din's are preference imo
Same with the phantom.
Nayru customs are sad

 

[Meek Moths]

Honestly, I looked into Farore's Windfall and I think its the best one. It works in the air, is reliable, and also kills early.

the bad thing about it is that it can't kill on the ground....unless it's sudden death

 

[Macchiato]

the bad thing about it is that it can't kill on the ground....unless it's sudden death

It can around the edge and is a great option for reading a ledge roll or getup attack. Also when yew get into free fall, yew can control her right away while yew can with Farore's wind. Also it has super low lag

 

[Meek Moths]

all that is true but a simple farore's ladder is powerful enough, not to mention windfall severely limits your recovery. i wanted to like the move but it's just too gimmicky

 

[Macchiato]

all that is true but a simple farore's ladder is powerful enough, not to mention windfall severely limits your recovery. i wanted to like the move but it's just too gimmicky

Imo they're both as good as each other but with Windfall a little riskier.

 

[Meek Moths]

much riskier! i suppose you know it's cant grab the ledge so you know how risky..

 

[Macchiato]

much riskier! i suppose you know it's cant grab the ledge so you know how risky..

Yeah, but kill at 30% as a trade off and also working offstage imo is worth it. Also since little Mac is her worst MU this could help.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

imo Phantom Breaker is the only custom worth using. Giving Zelda a chance to break shields gives her so many more reliable kill setups. Even if you land one that isn't fully charged, it still has good shield damage. Lightning Kicks also do ridiculous shield damage (2 sweetspotted break a shield) so one uncharged PB and one LK could break a shield. With both Phantom Breaker and Lightning Kicks, Zelda has a fairly good chance at breaking shields.

 

[Zylach]

I've recently been using Din's Blaze and Phantom Breaker against friends. Since Din's Blaze waits longer to explode, it acts sort of like Samus' bombs or Link's bombs (if they're shielded and land on the ground) in that it can act as a zoning tool. Since Zelda is able to act shortly before the explosion, it means that there is an active hitbox while Zelda is able to act wheras she is still in endlag after the explosion of the other two Din's meaning that zoning can be better taken advantage of. Alongside this, phantom breaker, while I've never seen it break a human player's shields, is great for midrange poking like Ryoko said since even the uncharged phantom goes a good distance.

Using this midrange poke alongside the zoning of din's blaze allows me to keep some necessary distance from the opponent until I choose to go in for extra damage or a kill meaning I can dictate the pacing of the match which is something Zelda struggles to do with her default kit. Also, since phantom breaker only goes a set distance, it's easier to manage how long I ought to charge it based on how far I have to send it. I just have to charge it however long I please (Quality of life thing). Moreover, Din's blaze has useful edgeguarding applications, does more damage than default Din's and has a consistently large hitbox no matter the distance. Against characters that like to use their speed against me, I enjoy placing blaze right in front of my face to see how they react to it since the explosion reaches all the way to Zelda's hurtbox meaning they could grab me and still get hit, not to mention it acts like wall to their approach forcing them to consider other ways of getting to me which usually means jumping over it or shielding it giving me a lot of options to counter them. If they don't do either of those, then the neutral game continues. I'm not at an advantage or disadvantage.

 

[Thinkaman]

I've been looking at Phantom Strike, and liking it more and more. The faster charge time is what makes it.