Zelda Bottom Tier? Pbbbt, No

[ZombieBran]

I'm trying to prevent everyone else from committing to her being bad.

There is so much more to whether a character is strictly good or bad cross the board. Young Link is bad in Melee... yet he showed up yesterday to counter Ice Climbers in a large tournament. It's important to maintain an open mind. I agree that Zelda is already struggling in the Sm4sh meta, but she may yet prove to be a particular strategy's undoing.

Young Link is far more fluid than Zelda. And he's in a game with more variables at play.

Also he's smack in the middle of the tier list. Not exactly horrible.

 

[Meek Moths]

i said this many times but i feel like i wanna express this again

zelda is probably bottom tier, but can compete against higher tiered chars without, i dare to say, much trouble. at least in ForRollingGlory that is.

today i fought one guy who only used CF, Sonic, Sheik and Fox

he was always moving shielding and being really unpredictable. especially on his sonic,...it felt like he was so fast....went across the whole stage 3 times in 5 secs...

but when I used Zelda, I almost always won (only once lost because Din's instead of Farore ;-; )

then i switched chars and he always ***** me, only once i managed to win without Zelda and i Think with Marth idk the point is zelda is best waifu

 

[ZombieBran]

She's less obviously bad.

That's because the balance (on paper anyway) is far better than it was in Melee and Brawl.
Like Fox in Melee, incredibly speed, early KO setups with ridiculously powerful (and fast, sense a theme?) KO moves, strong defensive game, not even a bad recovery.

 

[Furret]

I'm trying to prevent everyone else from committing to her being bad.

good luck with your noble cause

 

[mountain_tiger]

Giving her Melee Fair and Bair would give her an awesome approaching option and a strong air game. These moves are safe, strong, fast, have range and are basically everything you want in life. Now combine that with her current Dtilt and Throw. Melee Fair and Bair are crazyyy. If she also would get a good Usmash (Brawl), a Dsmash with range (Brawl) and an inescapable Fsmash... well perhaps she wouldn't be top or even high but I dare betting she would definitely be very solid.

Now that I use Palutena as well, I can't help but feel that Palutena's Fair is what Zelda's sourspot lightning kicks should be like - 7% damage, low ending and landing lag and knockback that's tiny but not so tiny that the move becomes punishable on hit.

And now I'm remembering how I used to think that Palutena was simply a souped-up version of Zelda. How foolish I was...

 

[Meek Moths]

kick sourspot should be like melee

but keep the sweetspot as it it pls

 

[Kyle B]

I'm trying to prevent everyone else from committing to her being bad.

There is so much more to whether a character is strictly good or bad cross the board. Young Link is bad in Melee... yet he showed up yesterday to counter Ice Climbers in a large tournament. It's important to maintain an open mind. I agree that Zelda is already struggling in the Sm4sh meta, but she may yet prove to be a particular strategy's undoing.

Well she was 2nd/1st worse in melee
she was 2nd/worst in brawl
In smash 4 she received more nerfs then buffs (not counting the mechanic changes)

Brawl to smash 4 was the opposite of what happened with melee-brawl
Zelda received nerfs which where un-needed because Sakurai buffed Faeroe's, if he had changed nothing but down b she would be better then she is now, that is fact.
What we can do is tell Sakurai how wrong he was, because it makes no since to give Bowser (who was not as bad as Ganon and Zelda) 100 buffs without much drawbacks but barely buff the rest of bottom tier much lol, and to nerf Zelda's moves.....still can't see any of that reasoning.

oh and if she is just a pocket charicter, that is not where we want her.

 

[Meek Moths]

what's worse is that palutena- received soem really good buffs in the 1.04 patch, while zelda only got 0.7 damge increase to up tilt. this just makes me mad as zelda and palutena were at about the same level of usefulness so sakuchan could have given more biffs to our waifu as well

 

[warionumbah2]

Didn't know zelda got nerfed that bad. For G (gay) L (laggy) O (online) R (rubbish) Y is mainly tier whores or straight up characters that benifit from lag, I still think she's viable like the other obvious low tiers.

 

[Nammy12]

what's worse is that palutena- received soem really good buffs in the 1.04 patch, while zelda only got 0.7 damge increase to up tilt. this just makes me mad as zelda and palutena were at about the same level of usefulness so sakuchan could have given more biffs to our waifu as well

It's because Palutena is Sakurai's character.

 

[Meek Moths]

It's because Palutena is Sakurai's character.

yea i know and i have nothing against that. if i had my own character in the game, i would buff him as well
who wouldn't

 

[UkeNicky]

yea i know and i have nothing against that. if i had my own character in the game, i would buff him as well
who wouldn't

Bottom line, les be honest Sakurai just doesn't like Zelda, she got all dat sass and you just know he's intimidated by the elevator (~e3e)z

 

[ZombieBran]

Another theory is that Sakurai loves Zelda so much that he's really good at using her and nerfs her because he destroys his co-workers!

 

[UkeNicky]

Another theory is that Sakurai loves Zelda so much that he's really good at using her and nerfs her because he destroys his co-workers!

But hey, that's just a theory. A game theory.

 

[Salad Bowl]

well sakurai mains ganon so maybe?

 

[Tino]

Tiers are for wimps. :/

Don't let that stop you from playing as her.

 

[ZombieBran]

Tiers are for wimps. :/

Don't let that stop you from playing as her.

Nah.

I think the recurring theme here is that we main Zelda even though she's been let down three games in a row.

 

[Tino]

Nah.

I think the recurring theme here is that we main Zelda even though she's been let down three games in a row.

She played alright to me in Brawl but I'm not sure how I feel about her in Smash 4 cuz I haven't played her as much to know for sure. Don't know about Melee, though.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Tiers are for wimps. :/

Don't let that stop you from playing as her.

*resists the urge to lash out at the Rosaluma main speaking*

I'm considering dropping her entirely and sticking with Sheik and Pit.

I've stuck with Zelda for too long, and Sakurai can only break my heart and my mind so many times.

 

[Salad Bowl]

@ Phenomiracle nooooo please don't we need you

 

[Tino]

*resists the urge to lash out at the Rosaluma main speaking*

I'm considering dropping her entirely and sticking with Sheik and Pit.

I've stuck with Zelda for too long, and Sakurai can only break my heart and my mind so many times.

Why? Because she's "low tier" or "bottom tier" or whatever it is they call it?

 

[Phenomiracle]

Why? Because she's "low tier" or "bottom tier" or whatever it is they call it?

Because she's absolute garbage for the third game in a row; playing with her is, once again, a hair-pulling, frustration experience. My patience is nearing its end.

My problems with Zelda transcend your talk of "tiers."

 

[Tino]

My problems with Zelda transcend your talk of "tiers."

So you're saying it's my fault?

 

[Phenomiracle]

So you're saying it's my fault?

That was a tongue-in-cheek statement.

 

[Tino]

That was a tongue-in-cheek statement.

That's what she said.

 

[Meek Moths]

Because she's absolute garbage for the third game in a row; playing with her is, once again, a hair-pulling, frustration experience. My patience is nearing its end.

My problems with Zelda transcend your talk of "tiers."

oh, im sad for you if that is how you feel it. i understand you and definitely dont want you to change your opinion. but for me despite her flaws i feel fun playing her, and being a "low tier" makes me want to play her more just to show other people "low" tiers can be good too, albeit never really breaking through

 

[Phenomiracle]

oh, im sad for you if that is how you feel it. i understand you and definitely dont want you to change your opinion. but for me despite her flaws i feel fun playing her, and being a "low tier" makes me want to play her more just to show other people "low" tiers can be good too, albeit never really breaking through

I don't doubt there being a pride in maining a low tier character, and more power to you, my friend.

For the time being, I'm still sticking with her. After the amount of time I've invested in her (since Melee), I play her the best out of any other character in the cast. Against scrubs online and my friends, Zelda will always be my trump card.

In a semi-competitive setting (I've attended two 40 man Brawl tourneys and placed top 5 in both with Zelda), I'm not going to bother with her.

 

[Meek Moths]

oh that's right you're right then. i usually dont even think about tournaments when talking about zelda...so you got point

 

[RF_zelda]

Guys, Zelda's pretty good. You're not giving her enough credit. Check these out these youtube videos:

[youtube]/watch?v=Dgys4-SkTWE
[youtube]/watch?v=sV2z95qRNyI

In the first one Zelda gets some beautiful finishes and in the second one the commentators go on positively about some of her moves, such as her down-air being one of the best moves in the game for meteor smashing, and say that this is the best Zelda iteration of Melee and Brawl. And needless to say, this is pretty high-level play so it's quite endearing seeing her used so effectively. That elevator is the best.

 

[Meek Moths]

i agree, dair is probably the easiest meteor mash to land (as far as dairs go), as even the weak sourspot can gimp some chars with poor recoveries, and at higher percentages, even the easy to land sourspot has enough knock back to reliably kill

 

[evmaxy54]

Guys, Zelda's pretty good. You're not giving her enough credit. Check these out these youtube videos:

[youtube]/watch?v=Dgys4-SkTWE
[youtube]/watch?v=sV2z95qRNyI

In the first one Zelda gets some beautiful finishes and in the second one the commentators go on positively about some of her moves, such as her down-air being one of the best moves in the game for meteor smashing, and say that this is the best Zelda iteration of Melee and Brawl. And needless to say, this is pretty high-level play so it's quite endearing seeing her used so effectively. That elevator is the best.

Sis, I know you are trying to be helpful,

but we've (most likely) seen these videos before.

As much as Nairo is a fantastic player & all, but him alone won't change the fact that Zelda is still a terrible character.

 

[gameplayzero]

I don't fully understand what makes zelda so "terrible" besides situational aerial attacks without grabs and projectiles mainly being only useful off stage. She seriously doesn't seem THAT bad and Nairo has certainly proved that. Her poke game is nice (her jab and down tilt) and her fair and bair on shield sweetspotted leaves her in a safe position. Her neutral b is a great "get off me" move for roll spammers and constant grabbers if you aren't reckless with it. If you consistently can get the sweetspot on her aerials with some training, air death's should be more common (even though its still kind of a challenge to pull off). She is a secondary of mine and while I haven't played competitively yet, I haven't had too much trouble with her. Feel like this is a case of "I can't use her so she is garbage".

Same with falco. People think he is garbage just because they can't use him properly. He is definitely solid mid. I'm not saying Zelda isn't low tier, but she is definitely not as bad as some of you guys make her out to be. I can't really say where I would put her though since its too early to tell. Of course I'm somewhat of a new zelda playing on nintendodojo so any feedback is welcome.

 

[Berserker.]

Nairo is a great player but really, more Zelda representation would be nice to convince otherwise. Nairo can't do all the work by himself, and he has other characters to use (ZSS, Dark Pit, Robin) when he feels like it.

Then again, we should probably break down what Nairo does instead of calling him a good player whose skill covers up Zelda's weaknesses. There has to be something he's doing that makes his Zelda look tourney viable

 

[Alacion]

People with good fundamentals (which includes common sense and the drive to win) aren't going to choose Zelda. Let's face it the only time we ever see Zelda do well is because of a large gap in skill.

 

[BJN39]

People with good fundamentals (which includes common sense and the drive to win) aren't going to choose Zelda. Let's face it the only time we ever see Zelda do well is because of a large gap in skill.

What about that match vs Keitaro everyone brings up where Nairo slays both a Rosalina AND a Diddy as Zelda? Keitaro seems pretty good to me.

I suppose you'd chuck that to MU inexperience...

 

[Berserker.]

It may have something to do with MU inexperience. Tbh, players that play to win are definitely going to pick better characters than Zelda. That's a given. The best we can do is to develop Zelda's metagame, and find something that may be of significant help.

Here's to hoping that Zelda's future is a great one (This post will be rendered irrelevant when a new patch has a significant effect on Zelda. Not another 0.7% damage buff)

 

[Alacion]

What about that match vs Keitaro everyone brings up where Nairo slays both a Rosalina AND a Diddy as Zelda? Keitaro seems pretty good to me.

I suppose you'd chuck that to MU inexperience...

Well one's an Apex champion, and then there's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU91-MMICSo.

 

[Gay Ginger]

Watching that makes me miss Brawl Zelda's usmash so much ;_;

 

[Ryan.]

Yeah I don't think she should be low tier on all these lists I have seen. I think she has received so many good buffs this time around. That Farore's Wind.

 

[Gay Ginger]

Yeah I don't think she should be low tier on all these lists I have seen. I think she has received so many good buffs this time around. That Farore's Wind.

wut.

She got more nerfs than buffs lol.