Zelda Bottom Tier? Pbbbt, No

[Ryan.]

wut.

She got more nerfs than buffs lol.

Lol agree to disagree there.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Lol agree to disagree there.

Can't really "agree" or "disagree" on facts. @ Gay Ginger is right and you're wrong, simple as that.

Zelda has far, far more nerfs than she has buffs from Brawl.

 

[Ryan.]

Can't really "agree" or "disagree" on facts. @ Gay Ginger is right and you're wrong, simple as that.

Zelda has far, far more nerfs than she has buffs from Brawl.

It's way too early for you to be calling them facts lol. You don't have to act all pretentious. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that way either. Why is it impossible to avoid an argument here? It should be okay to agree to disagree whether you think they are facts or not, because I don't like to argue.

 

[Berserker.]

It's way too early for you to be calling them facts lol. You don't have to act all pretentious. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that way either. Why is it impossible to avoid an argument here? It should be okay to agree to disagree whether you think they are facts or not, because I don't like to argue.

They're numerical though so they're facts

We're talking damage reductions here and a few hitbox nerfs

 

[Phenomiracle]

It's way too early for you to be calling them facts lol. You don't have to act all pretentious. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that way either. Why is it impossible to avoid an argument here? It should be okay to agree to disagree whether you think they are facts or not, because I don't like to argue.

Buffs/nerfs concern the damage, knockback, and range properties of attacks, as universally understood.

Hence, facts.

Objectively, Zelda has had far more nerfs than she's had buffs. Numerous of her attacks have had drastic range reductions, with a handful of them having increased lag and less damage. The only buffs she's received is a larger sweetspot for Dair, FW, and Din's Fire being KOable (though it's much more of a nerf, considering its range has been drastically reduced and it's been quite weakened.)

Your desire to avoid confrontation is admirable. Please do make sure you know what you're talking about before you post, it's only natural you'll have people correct you.

 

[Ryan.]

Well alright you're right I don't know enough about hitboxes to judge. It's mainly the way I was corrected which caused me to post the way I did. There's better ways. I'll admit when I'm wrong eventually. Anyway, I guess I mentioned buffs in the first place because of how successful I've been with the sweet spot in Din's Fire and Farore's Wind online. I have never been able to win with her much online in Brawl than in Smash 4 but there's probably other factors there. Also I've heard differently from others I respect who know way more than I do. I believe most of it is all just because I refuse to believe Zelda is worse than she was because I want better for my favorite character (along with Villager).

 

[Gay Ginger]

Well alright you're right I don't know enough about hitboxes to judge. It's mainly the way I was corrected which caused me to post the way I did. There's better ways. I'll admit when I'm wrong eventually. Anyway, I guess I mentioned buffs in the first place because of how successful I've been with the sweet spot in Din's Fire and Farore's Wind online. I have never been able to win with her much online in Brawl than in Smash 4 but there's probably other factors there. Also I've heard differently from others I respect who know way more than I do. I believe most of it is all just because I refuse to believe Zelda is worse than she was because I want better for my favorite character (along with Villager).

I hate to break it to you but once you play against good players (who won't be getting hit by those moves), you're really going to feel the nerfs lol.

 

[Ryan.]

I hate to break it to you but once you play against good players (who won't be getting hit by those moves), you're really going to feel the nerfs lol.

Lol see usually when they don't hit I just blame myself rather than the character. I'm sort of just starting to try and get more competitive. I never got into hitboxes, frames, and matchups too much.

 

[Gay Ginger]

It's not about blaming yourself or the character. It's just recognizing that some moves are bad lol

 

[Ryan.]

Well that's what I meant, the character's moves.

Anyway didn't mean to upset anyone here, I just like to avoid discussions like this as I get uncomfortable.

 

[Meek Moths]

the only real answer to your forum quarrel is that while zelda had indeed many unnecessary nerfs, she is a better character overall thank in brawl

 

[Gay Ginger]

^ I honestly don't think so.

 

[Alacion]

In a pure numbers game, yes Zelda received more nerfs than buffs. BUT, some of these buffs are what all the Brawl Zeldas would have killed for and obviously 1 nerf doesn't always equal 1 buff.

I would have happily traded killing power in up tilt, slightly slower kicks and dsmash for a taste of Zelda's recovery in Smash 4. Granted this isn't a direct buff to Zelda, but it is still very significant compared to Brawl. Phantom >>>>>> Transform unless you're Ed.

I'm still on the fence as to whether Zelda is better or worse compared to Brawl. She may have received more nerfs, but Zelda's worst MUs from Brawl aren't as bad in Smash 4. (eg. Meta Knight, Olimar, Snake, etc.)

 

[Meek Moths]

^ I honestly don't think so.

i respect that but play a few matches with smash 4 zelda and right after that try brawl zelda. you will know what im talking about

 

[Lil Puddin]

Zelda's main issue stems from the fact she is all about precision. She is not Mario. She cannot spam whatever and go "Oh, it missed, no problem!" Normally this wouldn't be an issue by itself since skill can be increased. Too bad tho. Dodging and aerial dodging is so quick and easy to do in this game. So nearly all her sweetspots can be blocked and punished since they all have end delay now. Since her attacks have some end delay, it's hard to follow up since most people can just spam air dodge and punish her if she tries to.

Zelda as a character is very viable. You read attacks and punish accordingly. Unfortunately that means all you need to do to crush Zeldoo is to NOT approach her and bide your time. All you need to do is get one hit in to start your Zeldoo-murdering-spree. Meanwhile, Zelda can't combo as fluently as others since her attacks are designed to give her space or protect her. You just have to be very wise with her move set to get the most out of her. SEEWHATIDIDTHERETHO. So since she requires precision, reading, and still has the possibility of not getting a reward for all that skill+effort... People do not play her. Meaning she is rarely seen in tournies. MEANING people think she's low tier. Too bad so sad, Zeldoo is just too fab.

Plus Zelda is top tier in 2v2 or FFA. Her ground attacks are designed to catch and crush people who are preoccupied. She'll nab someone eventually. All she has to do is sip some tea as idiots bash their heads in, then swoop in with a SPARKLE GLITTER ZING. I can carry a bad player in 2v2 with Zelda, but not as my other characters. She's just fierce when there's more enemies around... Oh... Maybe that's why she's such a badass in Hyrule Warriors. Sorry you're such a scrub, Link. We can't all be fabulous magical princesses.

 

[RF_zelda]

I think Zelda's mid tier because of her edge-guarding game. There's a number of characters with poor recoveries she can gimp. Meanwhile her recovery is great.

The only problem is SD's are a constant problem with her it seems (at least for me). I rarely din's fire by accident when I'm not on the stage anymore, but the number of times I FW and miss a sweet spot or go off-stage is just sad. Never mind she's low tier *facepalm*

 

[Meek Moths]

The only problem is SD's are a constant problem with her it seems (at least for me). I rarely din's fire by accident when I'm not on the stage anymore, but the number of times I FW and miss a sweet spot or go off-stage is just sad. Never mind she's low tier *facepalm*

SD are really common on the DS version because the circle pad is awkward, but once you try wii u you shouldnt sd as much. of course, even the master craftsman can make a mistake

 

[Amiracle]

SDing is so easy to do as Zelda. The teleport can get you a lot. A lot of times you'll be trying to Din's fire someone off the edge and you instead hit FW and you SD off the side. Or the other way around where you're trying to get on the edge but cast DF instead of SW and die that way. The other way I SD is I'll be trying to get down to the platform because I keep getting juggled and I teleport off the edge

 

[Los4Muros]

I wasn't a big fan of Zelda. I've played her a couple of times and considered she was no doubt a low tier. Then I got her amiibo and decided I'd give her a second chance and used one of my free days playing her non-stop. Anyways, after playing with her all day, these are some of my conclusions:

Her Fair is so incredible. It can be used as a kill move when recovering from the edge. I always grab the edge, let go, jump, then go for a Fair. Landing the hit gives you time to recovery and set up your next move. The only problem I found to this is that the move kind of needs a good position, if not given it right, it just deals damage with low knock back.

The first time I played the game I found Phantom Slash useless. Although my thought toward that hasn't changed much, I've found a few chances to use the attack to land some hits. Since you can charge it while in air, it kind of works like Marth's Shield Breaker. The attack would be great if it would push away or hit opponents right in front of you. It takes time to materialize and it just passes through opponents literally in front of me. Such a shame. The move has talent, but with this flaw, I prefer Din's Fire.

But the most important move I find in Zelda's moveset is Farore's Wind. Her reappearing instantly kills. Yeah, it's a kill move. Not only that, more than once have I gotten the combo where you hit when disappear and appear on top for the kill. If we learn to master this, this would push her so high on the Tier List, it's such a good move. Farore's Wind is full of potential. Great for spacing, camping and even zoning.

Definitively not the bottom tier! I tell you, there's true potential here!

 

[Lil Puddin]

Zelda is a solid mid tier. Great kill moves, nice keep away game, nice panic button, ok tilts, great recovery distance, but tons of delay and light weight. She requires skill and proper knowledge of move usage/effects. Other characters, like Sheik, are far more forgiving with improper move usage. So why play Careful Zeldoo when you can play Lightningfast X?

 

[Meek Moths]

contrary to the popular belief, her kill power is really not that great. it's amazing in terms of raw killing power, but it's just difficult to land the finishing blow against good opponents who know zelda's tricks.

many characters have just much easier time getting the kill, like sonic with his absurd throws..

 

[Linnc]

Okay, hi. I've been maining Zelda for many years (since melee, duh) and I have to say, she's a pretty decent-bad character. In Melee, the only thing that brought her up were 3 of her moves, Fair, Bair, and Down Smash. In Brawl, she was just terrible, although I ditched brawl for project m, I can't go in much detail for Brawl. In Project M, all of you know she's a really good character. She got a bunch of buffs and yeah. I do feel a little guilty sometimes since I catch myself playing her the same way as I did in Melee, I'm catching on to her other good moves. Anyways, in Smash 4 I'd probably have to say she about lower mid tier. The reason being is she's not that good at comboing, and ground combat. She is a really good punisher and I see she has potential to be a good character but it's not quite there. Her ledge guarding is really good. IMO one of the best as she can go over and ledge cancel to use any of her ariels to kill or just using din's fire or Phantom slash and try going in for some edge combat. What I saw works for me is just getting the opponent off stage and trying to fight them there, it's much more reliable and the only reason she could ever get as high as at least mid tier. Her recovery is amazing as she can Up-B out of shield. Now for combos, she doesn't have that many true combos which doesn't make them that useful. Her best "combos" are from her grabs which aren't always certain, but can still kill depending what you do. Zelda has the potential of being a good character, as shown in Project M, but Sakurai is just not making it happen.