Zamus's tilts

[Ørion]

I just wanted to get the community's opinion on Zamus's tilts. Personally, I find myself using them less than I think I should, partly out of habbit, but partly because some of her more hard-hitting attacks are almost as fast. Does anyone else not use them much?

 

[DarkShadowRage]

This topic can go so many ways oh so fast >_>

 

[James Sparrow]

Her ftilt is pretty garbage imo. It is only worthwhile occasionally out of the shield if you're facing the wrong way and suck at turn around dsmashes. Dtilt is good because it has nice range and can supplement jabs well when you are spaced right. Up tilt owns, we've all seen how it's used.

 

[Sundown]

Down tild and uptilt are MOSTS in every good Zamus user. I agree about her ftilt. But her dtilt, and specially her uptilt... wow it is so important to use them correctly...

And there is no other moves Zamus has, besides her jabs, that are "almost as fast", Orion what do you mean with that :S.

 

[Garde]

Well, her up-air and f-air also come out really fast. But yeah, for the most part she has around 20 frames (1/3 of a second) of start up on her moves, aside from her tilts, jabs, and the air moves above. Her n-air and b-air are a bit slower than up-air and f-air, but probably still only like 10 frames until they're active.

I think her f-tilt is probably the most under-rated because it's the slowest and limited in reach. It has really good priority, though, and since it's a fairly weak attack (6%, not the down version), it often recovers faster than the moves it ties with (f-smashes and much stronger tilts).

 

[Ørion]

well, almost as fast is an exaggeration lol, mainly I was referring to aerials, but some of her other moves can come out fairly fast for what they are if you do not charge them. I dunno, I probably don't use tilts very much because I played 64 when I was still really young and mainly mashed smashes lol so I didn't really get into many other moves. Its now become habit more than anything for me to not use them much. The only time I mainly use tilts is after a running kick thingy (sorry, don't remember the official name) I'll do an Ftilt then a Dtilt into aerial combos. Thanks for the suggestions, its really nice to have such a great Zamus community.

 

[FadedImage]

I agree with Garde, the ftilt is really good. I've basically replaced my jab with it, since the jab is so awful. Of course we all know dtilt is great and utilt is the only good move that hits behind ZSS. So I'd have to say yeah, the tilts are basically ZSS's driving ground game. Fsmash is garbage, Dsmash is great, but situational, and Usmash should only be used on opponents above. Tilts are where it's at.

 

[Ørion]

FadedImage, I noticed that you had no mention of her special moves in her ground game, which I consider extremely important. Her B> basically replaces the forward smash, and can be very good. Its slower than tilts and requires some spacing, but can be great, especially if your opponent is stunned with neutral B, or, even better, down smash.

 

[Garde]

Most of the time you use side+B is via SH's for spacing against people who know how to get around it. The fact that you can DI about before the hitbox comes out in the air and land on people allows for a lot better spacing than if you threw it out on the ground.

I'm pretty sure that's why Faded didn't include it in her ground game.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

glad this topic survived and was filled with useful info, what a great read.

 

[FadedImage]

I'm pretty sure that's why Faded didn't include it in her ground game.

QFT

Since the side-b requires so much spacing, is usually short-hopped, and really isn't meant for melee combat, I don't consider it to be "ground game". It's not like you're gonna come out of your shield trying to punish a missed aerial with side-b, etc.

 

[Ørion]

True, however, I still feel that if you get an opportune moment, its a more logical choice because of damage and knockback. Yes, the spacing and timing is a problem (I hate the disjointed hitbox) but it is still the most hard-hitting technique that can be used on the ground. Also, there are some moments where you can punish with a side-B. Someone with a grab that takes a while to come back could be stunned by special neutral or Down smash, then you might want to use this because of knockback etc., especially if they have high percentage and you might be able to KO someone with it. If you're fighting someone with really good aerials so you can't use uair as well for KOs, I feel that this can be one of the best ways (next to the down B spike)

 

[Sundown]

In all honesty i think that >B is great as spacing tool, and of couse it can rack up the damage nicely too, but to be honest i dont use it for KOs, i actually just keep using it a lot to keep the threat on all the time, and just to keep spacing, spacing, and spacing some more. If you land a down smash at killing percentages, i would almost always recommend turning around and baring "Ikki style" (hehe im sure hes not the only one that does it but i was impressed by his videos).

In my matches i save up almost always my bair and not care about damage decay with my >B, since >B is there for spacing and for keeping your opponents honest mainly, of course u can rack up some nice damage with it, but i think that for KOing your better off with a saved up bair.

By the way, i dont have my Wii right now so i cant check, now that we speak about punishing, can someone test how fast she can pull off Spot dodge > downsmash? Kann it be something as messed up as ROBs or our spot dodge downsmash comes out too slow to punish anything?

Thanks

 

[Garde]

Her d-smash is way too slow. It takes 21 frames for the hitbox to become active. ROB's d-smash is active by something around frame 5.

EDIT: Also, almost any time you need to space to use side+B, it's better to SH than to walk on the ground because you can start the move earlier in the air and space while the move is coming out. Very rarely do good opponents land at perfect range for a sweet spot (aside from other Zamus players), so by SHing side+B, you are increasing your chance of hitting them if they're in lag since it's faster for spacing sweet spots.

The only time you'll have trouble with SH side+Bs is against short characters that can run underneath the sweet spot, but against just about anyone else, SH side+B should be preferred over standing side+B's when spacing.

 

[Sundown]

Yeah, SH >B is a given, at least i thought so.

Or as we say it here: Ich habe das schon als gegeben hingenohmen

Thx for the frame info man, i appreciate it a lot!!!, so if i want to land dsmashes ill have to do it exactly the same way yelda players land their forward smashes... anticipating **** :S. Thats not so cool Oh well..., thx again for the info.

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm with Garde and Faded: ftilt is ridiculously underrated. It only comes out one frame after dtilt, and ends two frames later than dtilt. It also ends sixteen frames before utilt. Furthermore, when angled downward, it does nine percent and has a chance of tripping at low percentages, and when it stops tripping, it has very high knockback. If it trips your opponent, that's a free dsmash. Also, I prefer it to jab, because pressing A right after using ftilt won't start up an unwanted jab combo. Finally, it can push peoples' shields out of grab range, and if they try to shield grab, you can dtilt them, because of dtilt's range.

As far as the other tilts, they're obviously amazing. Utilt's speed and bidirectional range make if very useful for punishing shield pressure from the likes of foxes and others. It also follows very well from dash attacks. Dtilt is also amazing for its range and usefulness in set-ups.

 

[-Aether]

All of her tilts are applicable. F-tilt is fast and knocks people away from you, and has more range than her jab. I often use a glide-toss with the armor parts to F-tilt early in the game.

D-tilt is solid and hits under shields, has great range, and keeps you killer low to the ground.

U-tilt is her best tilt, and is sick nasty after running attacks. It comes out so fast (two or three frames) and has a huge hitbox. It's only disadvantage is how long the hitbox stays out, and it's ending lag.

 

[MzNetta]

At low percentages, after a dash attack, I sometimes use FTilt so the usual dash>UTilt doesnt get too predictable.
I think all of her tilts are solid tbh.
They all work pretty effectively after a dash attack.

 

[3GOD]

I know this is kind of an old thread, but I wanted to talk about Dtilt. I used the search function and came up with this...YAY SEARCH FUNCTION!!!!!

Anyway, the more I play around with ZSS, the more I like her Dtilt. I honestly think it should be used in place of Utilt in many instances.

For example, when you successfully dash attack someone, they often are just in front of you, leaving them vulnerable to a Utilt. However, Utilt has so much ending lag that it can be a bit harder to follow up, and a Dtilt is only 2 frames slower (for the hit box to appear) and provides the same launching effect with less ending lag.

I've also been considering using this as a way to punish Game & Watch's Bair (the turtle). You can shield 2 or 3 hits from this multi-hit attack, spot dodge through the other hits and grounded hit box that appears upon his landing, and then Dtilt to pop him up. I'm pretty sure you can actually shield grab him out of his Bair, but it's a little riskier obviously.

Don't forget, you can also Dtilt from a crawling position - we should maybe begin thinking of this move as Marth's Dtilt. I need to check out exactly how long it lasts and what kind of shield stun it produces, but it seems to be a very good spacing/poking tool.

 

[Takumaru]

I abuse her Dtilt. It's my primary launcher because I find it easier to follow up with F-air, U-air, N-air or whatever. Utilt has too much recovery time for my taste. I think how someone uses her tilts really just depends on your personal style and taste. I notice I use them more than most people I've seen in videos or tournaments.

 

[3GOD]

Some data on the tilts:

Dtilt:
Total: 25 frames
First hits on frame 5
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 7
Advantage: -19

Ftilt:
Total: 28 frames
First hits on frame 6

Utilt:
Total: 45 frames
First hits on frame 3
Second hit box is on ??

I didn't get the hit lag/shield stun data on the other tilts, but I mainly wanted to check out how good Dtilt was at pressuring...not that good, but it's ok because of its spacing. It is significantly faster than Utilt on the ending lag though as you can see.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

I abuse her Dtilt. It's my primary launcher because I find it easier to follow up with F-air, U-air, N-air or whatever. Utilt has too much recovery time for my taste. I think how someone uses her tilts really just depends on your personal style and taste. I notice I use them more than most people I've seen in videos or tournaments.

I love following up down tilts with a forward air...I use the down tilt alot.

 

[FBM]

I think all her tilts are useful - it's her jab that's crap. I've gotten out of the habit of using it and use ftilt in those situations, which are when I'm on the defensive and want the trip or knockback.

For offensive setups, utilt has your speed and dtilt has your range. I often do those off of double dsmashes at low %'s if they reach, before the opponent pops out of the dsmash stun at a height where aeriels are more useful.

 

[Pink-eye]

can you aim her forward tilt? and does it have tripping potential?

 

[DeliciousCake]

can you aim her forward tilt? and does it have tripping potential?

It can be mid or low. I think there's the possibility of a high kick, but I don't remember and it isn't useful if there is. Low f-tilt has a higher chance of tripping your opponent than mid f-tilt.

 

[Adapt]

It can be mid or low. I think there's the possibility of a high kick, but I don't remember and it isn't useful if there is. Low f-tilt has a higher chance of tripping your opponent than mid f-tilt.

aiming it high provides the exact same knockback and damage as aiming in the middle.

You should always go for a low ftilt if possible because it is superior in pretty much everything

 

[ph00tbag]

For example, when you successfully dash attack someone, they often are just in front of you, leaving them vulnerable to a Utilt. However, Utilt has so much ending lag that it can be a bit harder to follow up, and a Dtilt is only 2 frames slower (for the hit box to appear) and provides the same launching effect with less ending lag.

The way I've always viewed it is that you follow up a dash attack differently at different percents, and depending on DI. At lower percents, I've found jab to be more reliable. Dtilt is good at medium percents, and at higher percents dashing usmash or another dash attack work really well.

 

[Cancel]

The way I've always viewed it is that you follow up a dash attack differently at different percents, and depending on DI. At lower percents, I've found jab to be more reliable. Dtilt is good at medium percents, and at higher percents dashing usmash or another dash attack work really well.

Very nice i should try that indeed.

 

[Tyser]

I fight Zamus all the time and I know for a fact that she has very nice tilts.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I fight Zamus all the time and I know for a fact that she has very nice tilts.

Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself? That's like the first time I've heard that, it was so original and funny.


Go die in a fire.

 

[Takumaru]

Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself? That's like the first time I've heard that, it was so original and funny.


Go die in a fire.

At least do it right....

Like that.

 

[ptown]

ahhahaha, i thought the title said zamus's tilts.

 

[DeliciousCake]

At least do it right....

Like that.

No.

 

[Takumaru]

Dammit... you win.

 

[smaci92]

i <3 her tilts