You guys should examine Luigi's SWEETsweetspots

[SwastikaPyle]

I don't have his move percentages memorized, but on occasion LuigiKing will do a move to me and it will sometimes tack on an extra percent or two. I'm unsure why.

Examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp4x0L6Feso&feature=related

0:09. Nair does 15% instead of the usual 14%.

Again here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqHmWVkAjy4&feature=channel

At 3:39, dsmash does 18% instead of 16%.


Anyone know why this occurs?

 

[LuigiKing]

Yeah someone should look into this... because we sure can't figure it out.

 

[Kiyuzoh]

Just throwing it out there, but what if Luigi's moves do more damage if the enemy is DI/SDIing towards you? Another idea I had while typing this, but what about a rest-like hitbox in certain moves Luigi has? The latter seems much more reasonable, but not very reliable, unless your positioning is godly.

Slightly off-topic, but has anyone noticed that the Luigi boards have been pretty quiet lately? I don't post very often, but the Luigi boards always had something to do. Maybe Luigi's metagame is slowing down?

 

[hippiedude92]

We're just really lazy; I have to write up a approach guide, i've been saying that for past 4 months + now but im hecka lazy to write it up. We're all lazy with our no lifers lol.

on topic = you think it's character matters ? like zelda takes more damage then usual or something?

 

[Excellence]

I think you should look into it. This could affect combos, set-ups and make killing a lot more easy. Whatever builds more damage more quickly is always preferable in my opinion.

 

[Magus420]

The damage display you see is just rounded to whole numbers. The game is actually using decimals for damage, so looking at the difference between one rounded number and a 2nd rounded number is going to be pretty inaccurate.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

The damage display you see is just rounded to whole numbers. The game is actually using decimals for damage, so looking at the difference between one rounded number and a 2nd rounded number is going to be pretty inaccurate.

Even though this is true, it's adding more than just a decimal amount of damage in the second video. It's at least 1.1%.

 

[Magus420]

If it's not some combination of the fresh 1.05 multiplier and rounding then the center hitbox probably just does 17 instead of 16 or something, which wouldn't be the 1st move to have that. Yay I guess?

 

[Kiyuzoh]

Whoops, forgot about that whole "decimal percentages" thing. That is the most likely solution.

 

[LuigiKing]

The damage display you see is just rounded to whole numbers. The game is actually using decimals for damage, so looking at the difference between one rounded number and a 2nd rounded number is going to be pretty inaccurate.

If it was just rounding why would Dsmash jump from 16 -> 18? If you've passed 3rd grade math you should know that a system that rounds to the nearest 1 can't result in +2 for any given calculation. So its something else. That is unless it can do 17 regularly and it did round to 18 off a previous decimal or whatever. Either way There is at least 1% mystery goin' down.

 

[TheMann]

You all should just do like me and think that everything weird that happens with weegee, is because he's weegee lol.

But yea that downsmash thing is weird....

 

[Magus420]

If it was just rounding why would Dsmash jump from 16 -> 18? If you've passed 3rd grade math you should know that a system that rounds to the nearest 1 can't result in +2 for any given calculation. So its something else. That is unless it can do 17 regularly and it did round to 18 off a previous decimal or whatever. Either way There is at least 1% mystery goin' down.

The game displays just the full numbers and ignores the rest for it, so if for example you have 5.95% it displays as 5%. Completely fresh hits have a 1.05x multiplier. Let's say you have 40.8% before the hit (shows as 40%), and d-smash normally does 16.5%. With the multiplier it instead does 17.325%. Use your 3rd grade math skills to figure out how an on-screen difference of 18 would then be possible under those conditions.

Does a completely fresh normal d-smash leave them with 17% or 16% on someone's fresh stock? That would show which is the cause. I don't know or wish to check because I couldn't care less about a potential extra 1 damage on a move that would require very inconvenient positioning to make use of intentionally.

 

[LuigiKing]

stuff rounded to whole numbers more stuff

The game displays just the full numbers and ignores the rest for it, so if for example you have 5.95% it displays as 5%.

OK you realize chopping off the decimal and rounding to a whole number are entirely different things right? -_-
...
If you suppose it does actually round the number you could never have more than 1% deviation. If it entirely ignores the .9999% than you could jump 2% with one attack if the circumstances were perfect and the attack was fresh.

So this means that no move can do exactly 20% fresh? Any move that does 19% or below still won't hit the next whole number and 20 will always reach 21 after the multiplier? This makes me wonder if moves naturally hit for ******** values before decay.

 

[Magus420]

OK you realize chopping off the decimal and rounding to a whole number are entirely different things right? -_-
...
If you suppose it does actually round the number you could never have more than 1% deviation. If it entirely ignores the .9999% than you could jump 2% with one attack if the circumstances were perfect and the attack was fresh.

There is more than a single way to round a number. Truncation is one of them.

 

[B!squick]

Bottom line, the decimal is there and you just don't see it.

Also, don't feel bad that you're boards are slow, Boozer is in the same boat. I'm probably gonna learn WeeGee so I can say I've mastered 2 boring characters, yay! :D

 

[SwastikaPyle]

lol at calling Wigi boring

 

[Atash]

There is more than a single way to round a number. Truncation is one of them.

I believe that the point LuigiKing is trying to make is that regardless of how you round, so long as your consistent (and rounding with a single method rather than a string of methods from smaller to larger increments), you will never be able to achieve a 2% displayed difference (that is, if your display is based on 1% increments, which it is). No matter what I run through my head, LuigiKing seems to come out right.

EDIT:

Since when has Bowser been boring? He's the fattest fatty to be phat on Brawl. That must count for something, yes?

... AND SINCE WHEN HAS LUIGI BEEN BORING!? Somehow being the silent mobster brother of a plumber owning a family run business is boring? Spaghetti is boring?

... Being a mama is boring...? You *sniffle* disappoint me... *sniffle-sniffle*

 

[Magus420]

I get his point and yes he is correct. You can't cause that through rounding alone. There's also the multiplier that could have been misleading and causing it to do 18% while 'normally' doing ~16% however.

If it's not some combination of the fresh 1.05 multiplier and rounding then the center hitbox probably just does 17 instead of 16 or something

In my post before the one you quoted I gave an example that would result in a difference of 18%, while normal d-smashes generally show 16% (would show as 16% in training and 16% or sometimes 17% the vast majority of the time in vs). If this were the case and it was due to the fresh multiplier together with the truncating of the display then a fresh d-smash at 0% should result in them showing 17% in vs mode, since it'd need to do at least 17.001% with the multiplier (base damage of 16.192%) to get the display change of 18. If it shows as 16% in that situation then it'd be the 2nd reason.



Anyway... none of that really matters because I remembered I recently did a double hit d-smash in a vid that did a ******** amount of damage, and there was also a vid of Cr4sh doing a double hit at the very start of a match to make a quick comparison.

Me doing a fresh and uncharged "35%" d-smash (17+18)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqXs_aGEIbU#t=1m35s

Cr4sh doing a fresh and uncharged "33%" d-smash (16+17)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEt2MTT9e7E


This was the sequence of my attacks in my video:
1) Both at 0%; all moves fresh [0%]
2) Strong b-air - (12 base dmg x 1.05 = 12.600); 12.600% total dmg [12%; 12 dmg]
3) Strong b-air - (12 x 0.90 = 10.800); 23.400% total dmg [23%; 11 dmg]
4) Jab 1 - (3 x 1.05 = 3.150); 26.550% total dmg [26%; 3 dmg]
5) D-smash [normal hit] - (16 x 1.05 = 16.800); 43.350% total dmg [43%; 17 dmg]
6) D-smash [inside hit] - (17 x 1.05 = 17.850); 61.200% total dmg [61%; 18 dmg]

(when d-smash double hits, the 1st hit doesn't stale the 2nd because there isn't enough time inbetween)


Cr4sh's video:
1) Both at 0%; all moves fresh [0%]
2) D-smash [normal hit] - (16 x 1.05 = 16.800); 16.800% total dmg [16%; 16 dmg]
3) D-smash [normal hit] - (16 x 1.05 = 16.800); 33.600% total dmg [33%; 17 dmg]


You can see in my video that Zelda is basically ontop of Luigi when the back hit connects and does the extra point of damage (the outside hitbox doesn't make contact and only the inner one hits). Same thing happened in the 2nd link of the 1st post.

So either the inner hitbox does 17 and the outer 16 with the outer likely having priority over it if both connect (which would explain it being somewhat rare), or... Zelda sometimes takes extra damage from Luigi's d-smash for whatever reason (it is Brawl afterall )

 

[Gea]

Magus ***** yet again.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Jesus christ magus you either need to get punched or laid

 

[B!squick]

I said boring because someone mentioned the board being quiet and Weegee's metagame slowing down. Bowser has been like that pretty much since Klaw Hopping was discovered.

 

[Magus420]

Jesus christ magus you either need to get punched or laid

The f*** is this garbage...?

 

[ALiAsVee]

Jesus christ magus you either need to get punched or laid

So...

You post a thread asking about the excess in damage in smashes that you do sometimes during matches. Magus, whose known for his knowledge in the more technical aspects of Smash, gives you an answer to your question. Not just an answer, a GREAT answer, fully detailed with videos that presents his case clearly in a manner refuting or supporting notions other people have on this issue. I believed it had to do with Decimal percents in damage, but I didn't have the knowledge to back myself up and create a sufficient answer that could be supported. Magus spends the time to compile a thorough answer, and this is what you have to say to him.

If anyone should be punched in this whole situation, it's you Swastika.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

As for nair, I thought it had to do with the timing and the hitbox. I was under the impression that the sooner it hits, the more knockback and damage, and also that the shoe was the sweet spot.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

No I don't really have anything against Magus he just seems clearly insane.

I mean, I could literally use that post he made on some kind of College algebraic exam. Like the bonus question, the proof that annoys the crap out of everyone - he looks like the kind of person who absolutely thrives on it.

You probably get laid like once a week I'm guessing. If you could reduce video games to this kind of science, imagine what you could do with flirting.

 

[kigbariom]

I can't read those numbers, its not why I came to smashboards.
I'm sure though, whatever those numbers mean, you did a good job.