You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[FlareHabanero]

I was literally referring to what they had to work with in creating Marth.

His character is certainly fresh in the environment of Smash Bros. Not sure how they decided on the sweet-spot concept, but I like it.

It's safe to assume the concept of the tip sweetspot is based on the rapier.

Rapiers are long thin swords that can cut to some degree, but are designed more so for stabbing due to it's thin design. As you know, Lords having a rapier as their default weapon is a traditional attribute, with a few exceptions. While it's true that Marth's weapon the Falchion is more based on the claymore, it's safe to assume that the reason why Marth has the gimmick is a nod to a rapiers functions.

Though, it becomes more apparent when in Brawl Marth actually gets a move that stabs.

 

[Croph]

Would anyone really care about Roy if he had not appeared in Smash Bros? Ike, I can understand. He was an awesome character and a pleasure to have around in Smash Bros.

But Roy? I don't buy it.

Well, here's my input on this whole thing:

FE6 is pretty revolutionary game and a staple to the FE series in and of itself, especially in Japan's eyes. We'd probably see some requests from Japan for Roy, in the West not so much for obvious reasons. I don't think Roy would be heavily requested though.

It's interesting to note that at one point, sometime after the release of Melee, NoA may have wanted to localize FE6. Why? I don't know, the timing was kinda bad anyway with FE7 coming and being a more friendlier game. It may have been because of Marth and Roy's impact in Melee, or maybe because of Roy's popularity... we can only speculate.

At any rate, yeah, Roy gained most of his popularity because of Melee, but I hardly see this as a bad thing, as we're talking about the context of Smash here.

And for pete's sake, if Sakurai states that he didn't add a character because he sucks in-game stat wise and has no personality, despite said character being largely requested in Japan AND in the West, I'm seriously going to start to think that a rock must have hit his head when he was younger. Pardon my bluntness.

Yeah, there's people out there that don't support Roy. There's people out there that dislike him. I honestly don't care. However, Roy is still a legitimate Lord, and a legitimate contender for Smash. Do not overlook this.

 

[FlareHabanero]

People just need to treat canon and Super Smash Bros. as separate things.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I do. Doesn't mean I can't dislike a character and the fact that he has a chance of getting in over characters I prefer.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I posted this in the Ike thread earlier and it would be nice to hear your opinions also-

Would you prefer Ike to keep his PoR design and gets some buffs in speed and a little, but not a lot of nerf in power? Or, RD design with him being even slower and stronger.
To answer my own question I would prefer him having the PoR option. How 'bout you guys?

 

[Mirron]

I'd like to see Ike get his Lord outfit myself, but I much prefer his Ranger/Lord design over his Hero/Vanguard one. A large part of this is him being cuter in his PoR outfit and such though.

 

[Rouge]

I'd like him to be his Radiant Dawn self. The best thing about Ike is how much he evolved throughout two games, so I'd be a little disappointed if the new Ike had the same look.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I want him to use his DLC design with the sword arm

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

I'd like to see Ike get his Lord outfit myself, but I much prefer his Ranger/Lord design over his Hero/Vanguard one. A large part of this is him being cuter in his PoR outfit and such though.

He looks almost too buff in RD. I know that the character art's different, but still.

 

[ShichibukaiJimbe]

I really believe the better possible third rep to fire emblem is Anna. She's not only playable in Awakening but also appeared in all the games

 

[Hong]

I posted this in the Ike thread earlier and it would be nice to hear your opinions also-

Would you prefer Ike to keep his PoR design and gets some buffs in speed and a little, but not a lot of nerf in power? Or, RD design with him being even slower and stronger.
To answer my own question I would prefer him having the PoR option. How 'bout you guys?

He should get his RD look, AND faster attacks.

No character should EVER attack that slow in a fighting game. Smash Bros may not be a fighting game, but the same rules apply. If you make attacks too slow, eventually as players improve a greater and greater amount of their moveset becomes invalidated because players have too much time to react. His forward smash can't even punish a mistake, because most other fighters have time to regain their balance and attack.

If you look at other fighters, you still have slow fighters like Zangief. They move slow, they're big targets and they have a hard time dealing with pressure when they're cracked. On the other hand, even if most of their attacks are among the slowest, they are still fast enough that they can seize an opening on the enemy's guard. Strong characters are something you want to keep tamed, but if you mess up they are onto you like a wyvern in heat.

I sound like a broken record, but Project M did Ike PERFECTLY. His attacks are slow, but not too slow. So many more of his moves see common application, and he still has some slower heavy-hitters for when his opponent goofs up. The more moves a character will use at a high skill level, the better.

Ike's fighting style in Brawl is outright bad design, and I hope to never see it again. You can't have slow movement and slow attacks. That is too extreme, and that's not Ike. Even dimorphism for the sake of character diversity is not an excuse.

I'd like to see Ike get his Lord outfit myself, but I much prefer his Ranger/Lord design over his Hero/Vanguard one. A large part of this is him being cuter in his PoR outfit and such though.

You can have your sandwich while I will have my STEAK.

I really believe the better possible third rep to fire emblem is Anna. She's not only playable in Awakening but also appeared in all the games

Perfectly legitimate character. i would even take Anna if we only had two Fire Emblem characters, honestly.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

He should get his RD look, AND faster attacks.

No character should EVER attack that slow in a fighting game. Smash Bros may not be a fighting game, but the same rules apply. If you make attacks too slow, eventually as players improve a greater and greater amount of their moveset becomes invalidated because players have too much time to react. His forward smash can't even punish a mistake, because most other fighters have time to regain their balance and attack.

If you look at other fighters, you still have slow fighters like Zangief. They move slow, they're big targets and they have a hard time dealing with pressure when they're cracked. On the other hand, even if most of their attacks are among the slowest, they are still fast enough that they can seize an opening on the enemy's guard. Strong characters are something you want to keep tamed, but if you mess up they are onto you like a wyvern in heat.

I sound like a broken record, but Project M did Ike PERFECTLY. His attacks are slow, but not too slow. So many more of his moves see common application, and he still has some slower heavy-hitters for when his opponent goofs up. The more moves a character will use at a high skill level, the better.

Ike's fighting style in Brawl is outright bad design, and I hope to never see it again. You can't have slow movement and slow attacks. That is too extreme, and that's not Ike. Even dimorphism for the sake of character diversity is not an excuse.

I blame his slow movement on his sword.

 

[Hong]

I blame his slow movement on his sword.

 

[Mirron]

So doesn't that mean that he'd be just as slow if he's Radiant Dawn Ike? And it could be a steak sandwich Hong, that's always a possibility.

Also agree on Project M being perfect for Ike. They did a good job, and I got blue fire.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I liked the blue flame for Eruption in PM, but I never really had a moment where I was used it. I found it hard to get an opponent to get hit by it personally. That was my only flaw with Ike in PM. Yet, I would consider Samus and Zamus my true mains for the hack though.

 

[Mirron]

I use Eruption primarily as a counter of sorts. As well as a way to safely return down from the air. But it's hard to put how I do things into words, always bugs my friend.

 

[Niko Mar]

I want him to use his DLC design with the sword arm

IS worker: "Hey guys! Let's give all the main DLC characters awesome new designs!"

IS worker 2: "Sounds good! Now let's design them all around existing models ."

 

[Hong]

So doesn't that mean that he'd be just as slow if he's Radiant Dawn Ike? And it could be a steak sandwich Hong, that's always a possibility.

Also agree on Project M being perfect for Ike. They did a good job, and I got blue fire.

Statistically, sure he is on the slower spectrum of units as far as Speed is concerned. He is still disgustingly agile in the worldly sense based on his animation, zipping all over the place for his attacks. They no doubt emulated this from Ranger Ike with the Quick Draw technique.

Ike is still FAST. Just not Swordmaster fast, and relatively less nimble from what we had with Path of Radiance.

If PoR Ike is a steak sandwich and Radiant Dawn is a steak, what does that make Marth? A cocktail weenie? A fruit smoothie?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I liked the blue flame for Eruption in PM, but I never really had a moment where I was used it. I found it hard to get an opponent to get hit by it personally. That was my only flaw with Ike in PM. Yet, I would consider Samus and Zamus my true mains for the hack though.

It can be used when you are falling and once you reach the oppenent hit him with the tip, after all in PM you can move him around while falling, and in another situation you can use it under a platform some people tend to underestimate the range, and the best use Eruption is using it as a normal attack without charging it hits a ton and I guess it can spike and meteor too....

 

[Hong]

I would make two changes to Ike's specials.

First, Aether. Make it so you can dictate how the sword is thrown sort of like Yoshi's egg. After he lands, let him hit B to do the second attack if the player wishes.

Secondly, replace Eruption with Ragnell's ranged attack. Make it something that charges up with time as Ike deals or takes damage to keep him as a melee character, but help to keep his enemies on their toes.

 

[Niko Mar]

Secondly, replace Eruption with Ragnell's ranged attack. Make it something that charges up with time as Ike deals or takes damage to keep him as a melee character, but help to keep his enemies on their toes.

I've always wanted a Smash character to have a sword beam.

Either Ike or Meta Knight should get one, just because they're actually able to do it. Link could always have one but he has all those items that can be specials.

Btw, why isn't there a Link DLC for Awakening?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I blame his slow movement on his sword.

 

[---]

Secondly, replace Eruption with Ragnell's ranged attack. Make it something that charges up with time as Ike deals or takes damage to keep him as a melee character, but help to keep his enemies on their toes.

Sadly Sakurai originally gave Ike his ranged attack, but removed it due to balance.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sadly Sakurai originally gave Ike his ranged attack, but removed it due to balance.

Still ****ing ironic as hell to this day.

 

[---]

Still ****ing ironic as hell to this day.

To this day I wonder if people would stop complaining about sword characters if Ike got his projectile.

 

[FlareHabanero]

To this day I wonder if people would stop complaining about sword characters if Ike got his projectile.

No, I more so meant that there was apparently an attempt at balance.

I'm not talking just Meta Knight and Ice Climbers either, don't get me started on the horribly defensive play due to varies mechanic adjustments, chain grabs that can shut down entire characters, too many gimmicky stages that rely on luck, pointless mechanics that don't improve anything, stale move negation weakening characters to the point of being on par with a wet paper bag, and items that are incredibly lopsided.

So whenever I hear apparent attempts at balance, I start questioning the directions.

 

[Hong]

Sadly Sakurai originally gave Ike his ranged attack, but removed it due to balance.

Correct.

With the hilariously misconstrued idea of balance he has, we may never see it.

You know, not like you can't just tweak the attack.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

... I'm sad now.

No way to convince the P:M team to incorporate it, I suppose.

 

[Croph]

Too bad Roy's never gonna reach his full potential if he got in. I mean, you can utilize the SoS's fire properties in various ways, like shoot out different fire projectiles. Seriously, by making the SoS spew out fire magic and heal, Roy can become like the Phoenix of Smash. It's a shame one of the most powerful swords in FE history (going by story wise) will never do justice.

All you people who support FE newcomers not named Roy have it so good...

Oh well, what can I do if he doesn't make it in? At least I have Roy all to myself to snuggle with in SMT x FE...

...

I'm going through a very depressed state right now... someone give me a tub of ice cream...

oh wait I don't even like ice cream. Bleh.

Spoiler

 

[Niko Mar]

Correct.

With the hilariously misconstrued idea of balance he has, we may never see it.

You know, not like you can't just tweak the attack.

I think it's time to pay a visit to Sakurai.....

Spoiler

 

[Hong]

At least I have Roy all to myself to snuggle with in SMT x FE...

H-Hey! Save some of that for me!

I think it's time to pay a visit to Sakurai.....

Spoiler

I think I would just walk into his office like this:

Guaranteed results.

 

[FlareHabanero]

All you people who support FE newcomers not named Roy have it so good...

 

[Mirron]

Hey, no snuggling Roy without sharing. Roy's our boy implies multiple people claiming him. And I do agree it's a shame, he has a lot of fun potential. I don't think he'd be the Phoenix, not that projectile happy, but still.

 

[Croph]

Btw, when I said Roy could be the Phoenix of Smash, I hope you guys know I was talking about this guy:

Spoiler

He'll never get his ass out of bottom tier.

Drop the tipper, Sakurai! Drop iiiiiiit!! I'm sorry, but I don't trust you on these things!!

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh no, it's not the base sweetspot that's the problem, it's more like a blend of bad attributes that makes the sweetspot impractical. If you're not hitting that sweetspot, you'll have to stomach the pathetically weak sourspot, and since Marth's moveset was designed with the tipper in mind, inverting that through Roy's Sword of Seals means you'll be dealing with a modification that is not complimentary at all. Hence if Roy had attacks that were designed with the mechanic in mind, he would be more used.

 

[Hong]

You must go to a theme park with one Fire Emblem character. PICK ONE.

I pick Hector. He seems like he would be a good fatherly sort of friend, you know? I am so shy and quiet, so he would probably be comfortably with taking the reins for our day and making it a fun experience for both of us.

Honourable mentions goes to Ogma. No offence, but I am afraid some people might think he is like my boyfriend or something. Otherwise he seems like he could be a fun guy.

GO.

 

[Mirron]

Stop doing this to me Hong, it isn't fair. You know there are too many I'd like. Hmm... hard to say. Depends on the theme park some too. But... hmm... hmm... I'll pick Eliwood, since then I can show everyone how not boring he is.

 

[Hong]

You're a real sweetheart, you know. \(///Σ///)\

Honestly, Eliwood is just a character that is fun to hate. His associates have rather extreme characteristics, and his own son had cooler-looking animations after promotion. He was born into shadow.

 

[FalKoopa]

I think I'll go with Canas. He's the curious type.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

... I'm sad now.

No way to convince the P:M team to incorporate it, I suppose.

Well, no, because they can't give characters projectiles if they don't already have them.

I think I'll go with Canas. He's the curious type.

Spoiler