You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Hong]

I think the best way I could explain it is like it is the Serenes Forest massacre.

Only no one died, and it was just a lot of... "love" for the character. Of course Intelligent Systems must of loved her quite a bit to have her play an important role in two books, and of course be the only character that fully carried over into Awakening.

Anyway, all that aside.

While the choice of characters to appear in Smash Bros will always be a #dicey affair, I do think appearances do merit discussion.

I would say Marth came out well. Would like if he had just a bit more FE12 in him, but aside from that, I really like the artistic interpretation they went with.

If Ike is to return, how does everyone feel in regards to appearances? We have the Ranger Ike (Path of Radiance) as seen in Brawl, the Hero Ike (Radiant Dawn), and his DLC design from Awakening. Personally I would really like if they went with the super buff RD Ike. Still delivers the character while feeling fresh, and it helps to emphasize his strong strikes.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I think the best way I could explain it is like it is the Serenes Forest massacre.

Only no one died, and it was just a lot of... "love" for the character. Of course Intelligent Systems must of loved her quite a bit to have her play an important role in two books, and of course be the only character that fully carried over into Awakening.

I still don't know what you're talking about.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

We're gonna get Radiant dawn Ike.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Yay. Nintendo promotes steroids. Congrats Ike. You're a role model to kids everywhere!

 

[UltimateWario]

Radiant Dawn Ike is older and stronger. :U

It's like saying Link is Young Link on steroids.

 

[Starbound]

Except Young Link to Adult Link in OoT at least looks natural.

PoR Ike to RD Ike just doesn't look like normal development.

 

[Hong]

It is hard to say.

Radiant Dawn's art seems more mature and has increased detail., though it is the same style overall.

Comparison of unit portraits:

Spoiler

Comparison of character art:

Spoiler

The most noticeable difference are the eyes (no longer enlarged), though the proportions are more realistic, and there is both a wider range of colour in addition to the choice of darker colours overall.

I think it is a combination of both the refined art style, and them trying to express how quickly Ike has grown as a result of his station. To be fair, it would look kind of weird if Mia got massive breasts and Ike was basically like the same guy.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

It is hard to say.

Radiant Dawn's art seems more mature and has increased detail., though it is the same style overall.

Comparison of unit portraits:

Spoiler

Comparison of character art:

Spoiler

The most noticeable difference are the eyes (no longer enlarged), though the proportions are more realistic, and there is both a wider range of colour in addition to the choice of darker colours overall.

I think it is a combination of both the refined art style, and them trying to express how quickly Ike has grown as a result of his station. To be fair, it would look kind of weird if Mia got massive breasts and Ike was basically like the same guy.

That's not weird at all. what WAS weird was the awful voice she got.

Anyway.... I think he'll get a mix of his classic POR and RD style. Just like marth, he isn't total shadow dragon, I still see some brawl in there. I like the fact that the SSB4 style is mixing classic and modern into one. Just like with sanic.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'd be very happy if Ike returned.

I'd also be very happy if Sakurai learned that ending lag on every move does not adequately balance power -_-

 

[Hong]

Ending lag is alright.

It's start-up lag that is the problem.

If you look at any long-standing fighting series, you will notice that "slow" characters do not necessarily have slow attacks. Their attacks might take a few frames more than other characters, but ultimately they are considered slow for other reasons. Someone like Zangief takes a while to hobble around the stage, and like a number of Smashers he is fairly large, but he does not have many "slow" attacks. Simply having poor mobility and lack of super-fast options is enough to offset his immense strength. Smash Bros is not a true fighter, but enough fighter concepts apply that this is still a viable design direction to take.

Ike has... three? options that I would classify being "fast", those being his jab, grab and neutral air. Also Aether if you count htat.

The problem with super slow attacks is, ultimately, they lose effectiveness as players improve. You need to punish errors to make them hit. His tilts can connect if they make a lengthy whiff, but the rest of his arsenal leaves much to be desired.

Captain Falcon (SSB64, SSBM) is a fine example of how you can implement speed in different ways without having to be so binary. He is lighting fast, but most of his attacks are actually fairly slow. His movement speed and his speed alone is enough to make him such a deadly threat. He has the means to jive his opponent to make a move they shouldn't, even against the best of players, and the speed to capitalize on it. He is always in the right place in the right time, and he still has that grab to keep his ***** tame.

Ike in Brawl has neither speed, mobility or fast attacks. Ike in Project M, on the other hand, delivers. His attacks are only a bit faster, but Quick Draw gives him some form of speed and mobility that makes him a threat worthy of his name. Being a huge fan of the character, THAT is what I wanted to see when I fired up Brawl.

Not saying Ike HAS to be like he is in Project M, so much as they need to balance his arsenal a bit better. His forward-aerial should be the bar for how slow something can be. It is slow enough that an experienced player has a reasonable time frame to react, but fast enough that you can punish someone with it. Everything slower should be retooled. More attacks in the fast spectrum. After that, you can either keep their launch strength, or lower it on some of his moves and give him better mobility.

Just my two gold.

 

[Deleted member]

A Chrom & Lucina duo ?
It would be beyond boring, if you ask me (no offense jaytalks).

Lucina & Male Robin as alternative skin for Chrom and Female Robin, and it's done.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Where is my Roy?

 

[jaytalks]

Except Young Link to Adult Link in OoT at least looks natural.

PoR Ike to RD Ike just doesn't look like normal development.

It's a standard development considering the art style and character developments. PoR had a much simpler art style

I prefer RD Ike to PoR Ike.

Guys quit repeating discussed points, we are beyond discussing these things...what we need to discuss is the move-set possibilities, what a character could bring to the table, fighting among ourselves will solve nothing, it doesn't matter what we see fit and what we think in the end Sakurai will do what in his mind.

I dont think there is any problem with repeating a topic already discussed, so as long as a new perspective is being added and everyone is being respectful. But that last bit might be asking for too much.

I do agree that any of the FE Lords (so as long as you remove your biases) could be made into unique fighters.
Alm (as a dreadfighter!!!)
Celica (swords and Magic!!!!!)
Sigurd (DIsmounting from the horse and a mounted unit in Smash!)
Lyn (fast and bows)
MIcaiah (Pure Magic light user)
etc

 

[FlareHabanero]

A Chrom & Lucina duo ?
It would be beyond boring, if you ask me (no offense jaytalks).

Lucina & Male Robin as alternative skin for Chrom and Female Robin, and it's done.

I will say that us resorting to such an idea to begin with only shows how uninspiring the character is.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

It is hard to say.

Radiant Dawn's art seems more mature and has increased detail., though it is the same style overall.

Comparison of unit portraits:

Spoiler

Comparison of character art:

Spoiler

The most noticeable difference are the eyes (no longer enlarged), though the proportions are more realistic, and there is both a wider range of colour in addition to the choice of darker colours overall.

I think it is a combination of both the refined art style, and them trying to express how quickly Ike has grown as a result of his station. To be fair, it would look kind of weird if Mia got massive breasts and Ike was basically like the same guy.

Alright, alright. I see what you're getting at. It's just...If it weren't for the fact that I accidentally played RD first, I wouldn't have really recognized Ike, even though the art has changed. He looks, at least in my RD game, that he has black eyes before his class change. Maybe that's what threw me off. Plus, at first glance the two portraits of him don't even look a like except for the blue hair. I'm not going to lie when I say that I like PoR Ike more, but you have a point. That's just my own two cents though.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I do find the factor of Fire Emblem Awakening pulling out Fire Emblem from hiatus being the reason we're forced to stomach these characters to be kind of weak. Doesn't mean jack squat in the end if all it leads to is highly redundant characters.

Honestly speaking, I still think that Robin is still the most likely, based on uniqueness.

 

[jaytalks]

A Chrom & Lucina duo ?
It would be beyond boring, if you ask me (no offense jaytalks).

Lucina & Male Robin as alternative skin for Chrom and Female Robin, and it's done.

No worries. i like any of the awakening offerings. It's all about how Sakurai designs the characters, which often involves a lot of creative thinking, especially for FE characters. Within their default class, most FE characters have like four variations of attacks (normal attack, critical, and those two in their promoted class), so a lot of what Sakurai does is fill in the blanks.

I'm not a fan of alternate skins for completely different characters and neither is Sakurai from what he said previously (WFT male and female versions is different since they are both WFT, like how Wario has both his Wario Ware and Wario Land looks).

 

[Mirron]

While they may have similar animations, someone like Robin has a ton of unexplored moveset potential from being a mage, let alone the class changing. Personally, I'd love to see Robin be playable, since if Robin gets in as a girl (though I'd prefer the option for either) we get a female mage who also hits another potential criteria, though it's kind of cheating to count it for Fire Emblem. Seems like the best case for Fire Emblem outside of really out there choices.

 

[UltimateWario]

The cool thing about playable Robin is that s/he can draw on literally any class in Awakening for her attacks, because she's the only unit (along with Morgan, I guess) that can class-change into anything (brilliant, by the way, for a My Unit character).

...also, we need Morgan as this game's Pichu.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The cool thing about playable Robin is that s/he can draw on literally any class in Awakening for her attacks, because she's the only unit (along with Morgan, I guess) that can class-change into anything (brilliant, by the way, for a My Unit character).

...also, we need Morgan as this game's Pichu.

...also, we need Morgan as this game's Pichu.

...also, we need Morgan as this game's Pichu.

Morgan as this game's Pichu.

...........
..............
................
.............

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

As long as Robin isn't as OP as s/he is in Awakening I'd be fine with it.

 

[UltimateWario]

As long as Robin isn't as OP as s/he is in Awakening I'd be fine with it.

Morgan + Galeforce + Shadowgift + Armsthrift + All Legendary Magic + Mire.

"I am become Death."

...........

Don't worry, we can't all be as genius as I.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You just... left me speechless.

 

[Hong]

You just... left me speechless.

Now that's strategy.

 

[UltimateWario]

You know what would be kinda cool (in my opinion, and we all know what that's worth :D)?

Robin & Morgan duo. Both generations get reps, you get the Dual Support system, and you get two unique characters that could still be plenty different (Morgan uses short-ranged, powerful Fire Magic, Robin uses longer-ranged, weaker Thunder Magic, etc.). Sure, Morgan isn't exactly top-tier as far as popularity, but neither is WFT.

You could even swap their genders; Male Robin with Daughter Morgan, and vice versa. Plus, it'd be sweet to see a Robin teaching Morgan to fight; s/he's always portrayed as kind of a ****-up in Awakening, so her attacks would be clumsier and slower, but more powerful, while Robins are more precise, have utility, but do less damage. It'd make for some cute taunts and victory poses, at the very least.

 

[Croph]

What kind of fighting mechanic would the partners have in a hypothetical FE duo? We do have a couple of team fighters in Smash, and technically, with the addition of Rosalina, we're introduced to a new duo fighting mechanic via the Lumas. I'd prefer something fresh... something that hasn't been done before. Any ideas?

 

[FlareHabanero]

What kind of fighting mechanic would the partners have in a hypothetical FE duo? We do have a couple of team fighters in Smash, and technically, with the addition of Rosalina, we're introduced to a new duo fighting mechanic via the Lumas. I'd prefer something fresh... something that hasn't been done before. Any ideas?

I suggested a tag mechanic akin to the one from the Marvel vs. Capcom titles.

 

[Rouge]

I imagine it would work in a way similar to what we have in Awakening. Your B- attack would allow you to switch between partners and to choose which of them you'd control. The second one would be in the background cheering and following the first one like Pokemon Trainer and may sometimes attack or come in to block an attack.

It could definitely be different from the other pair dynamics we already have.

 

[Niko Mar]

What kind of fighting mechanic would the partners have in a hypothetical FE duo? We do have a couple of team fighters in Smash, and technically, with the addition of Rosalina, we're introduced to a new duo fighting mechanic via the Lumas. I'd prefer something fresh... something that hasn't been done before. Any ideas?

I posted an idea a while ago. Basically have all the B-moves tied to both characters. For example you could have a move where Chrom does an attack with the assistance of Lucina, but if you hold B Lucina would go into the attack instead (Chrom boosts her into the attack when she comes out then he disappears via magic or whatever).

Therefore all the B moves could be used to switch out, so some unique combo potentials could open up. They should also throw in a two-part smash or two (like link's f smash), where the character that's out would slash and the other character would appear for a second if you chose so (without switching).

I would also suggest the supporting character teleporting in and out with magic, as it'd look less awkward than them jumping from the background to the bottom corner of the screen (for ex) and it'd look visually interesting.

 

[Croph]

I suggested a tag mechanic akin to the one from the Marvel vs. Capcom titles.

That... I wouldn't mind. Assists included too?

So essentially we have a tag team fighter that can string awesome combos together? (Something that I really wish Zelda & Sheik have... but I won't get into that here.) Heck, the inactive partner's attacking and blocking could even be considered the Assists.

I'm liking the ideas so far... well, as long as this pair up mechanic ain't broken, I'm cool... ah ha...

 

[Hong]

What kind of fighting mechanic would the partners have in a hypothetical FE duo? We do have a couple of team fighters in Smash, and technically, with the addition of Rosalina, we're introduced to a new duo fighting mechanic via the Lumas. I'd prefer something fresh... something that hasn't been done before. Any ideas?

I have a pair up system like Awakeking in mind. You select which one you want to start with at the character select screen, and the support character follows them in the background, just like in Awakening.

Spoiler

Chrom relies on single, very decisive attacks, while Lucina has attacks with shorter ending lag, lending themselves to combos.

Both characters in my vision have the same B specials, but you could make them individual as well.

B: Swap
Out of necessity, this move serves as the simplest and fastest method of swapping. Used alone, the active characters calls out the supporting character's name and they switch. With the right timing, this move can be used during any other special to switch characters to create combos and adapt to the situation.

B Forward: Dual Strike
The supporting character attacks. Lucina has a multi-hitting thrust, while Chrom goes for a mighty leaping strike. This move has no animation for the active character, so it is entirely possible to mix it into a string of attacks to form combos.

If B is pressed as the supporting character strikes the enemy, the active character will swap out, otherwise the supporting character returns.

B Down: Dual Guard
This replaces the signature Fire Emblem Counter move, though serves the same function. The active character parries the enemy attack, and the supporting character goes in for an attack while they are locked into place.

B can be pressed for the active character to yield the stage during the counter-attack.

B Up: Aether
The character throws the sword in the air, catches it, and comes down with a strike.

Chrom's Aether is not unlike the standard Aether, used by Ike. It goes high, but not far. He lands with a two-handed strike, followed by a back-flip if it connects.
Lucina's throws her sword so that it spins horizontally (see: this cutscene). It does not go as high, but goes much further, and she finishes with a horizontal strike as she lands if it connects.

While the sword is airborne, you can press B to have the active character step off stage. Meanwhile, the supporting character plants their sword in the ground and jumps after the airborne sword to finish the attack.

Final Smash: Unity of the Exalt
Naturally, a team attack where both glow with the same demon-vanquishing fire the Falchion normally glows with as they gang up on the same enemy.

That's my idea, anyway. I have also done a solo Chrom moveset which I like more, though I don't talk about it because it implies replacing Ike and expanding on what he has established. I wish I could combine both, though my solo Chrom moveset just won't work with a tag-team.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Eh, enough Awakening talk. Anyone wanna weigh in on Lyn's chances?

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

Eh, enough Awakening talk. Anyone wanna weigh in on Lyn's chances?

Decent. Not high, not incredibly low. Low-mid range I'd estimate.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Points in favor are mostly that she quite a popular Lord (trumping the other two from her own game by far), has some significance as the first Lord we met in the West and was an assist trophy in Brawl. So I'd be cautiously optimistic.

 

[Hong]

I am all down for a character that emulates the fighting style seen in the Myrmidons and Swordmasters in the GBA games. i think they offer a fresh kind of play style that is different from other agile fighters, having all sorts of mixups that rely on vanishing strikes that leave the opponent guessing.

She would be an awesome fighter, though an unlikely addition.

 

[ToothiestAura]

So, not sure if this has been mentioned, but I think the end of Awakening may be implying Lucina's inclusion in SSB4. During the endgame when they give all the characters a future for Lucina it says: "Lucina disappeared after whispering these words to her infant self: "Yours will be a happy future." Did she journey to another land or back to her own time? ...No one knows for certain."
It makes sense, does it not? Her own future of destruction is undone, therefore would have no place in the new, peaceful future. And considering she's a time-travel paradox herself, traveling to the non-canonical Smash Universe makes sense.
They did a similar thing for Ike at the end of Radiant Dawn, his ending was something along the lines of "He was never seen again."

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

So, not sure if this has been mentioned, but I think the end of Awakening may be implying Lucina's inclusion in SSB4. During the endgame when they give all the characters a future for Lucina it says: "Lucina disappeared after whispering these words to her infant self: "Yours will be a happy future." Did she journey to another land or back to her own time? ...No one knows for certain."
It makes sense, does it not? Her own future of destruction is undone, therefore would have no place in the new, peaceful future. And considering she's a time-travel paradox herself, traveling to the non-canonical Smash Universe makes sense.
They did a similar thing for Ike at the end of Radiant Dawn, his ending was something along the lines of "He was never seen again."

Doubtful. Very very doubtful imo.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

So, not sure if this has been mentioned, but I think the end of Awakening may be implying Lucina's inclusion in SSB4. During the endgame when they give all the characters a future for Lucina it says: "Lucina disappeared after whispering these words to her infant self: "Yours will be a happy future." Did she journey to another land or back to her own time? ...No one knows for certain."
It makes sense, does it not? Her own future of destruction is undone, therefore would have no place in the new, peaceful future. And considering she's a time-travel paradox herself, traveling to the non-canonical Smash Universe makes sense.
They did a similar thing for Ike at the end of Radiant Dawn, his ending was something along the lines of "He was never seen again."

You're reading too much into this. I'm pretty sure that was written long before consideration for the Smash 4 roster had even begun.

 

[Hong]

Keep in mind that the characters in Super Smash Bros derive from dolls or trophies. Which is most fortunate; I would never be able to sleep knowing my beloved Marth lost a fight to someone as lame as Princess Peach.

Ike could have gone one of two places: The Outrealm or Hatari. Of course, we don't know what is beyond Hatari, though all we know is he probably banged someone at some point.

It could be a tie to SMT x FE, though I would like to believe Lucina could be the lead of a whole new story.

 

[ToothiestAura]

You're reading too much into this. I'm pretty sure that was written long before consideration for the Smash 4 roster had even begun.

That's why I said it may be implying it. It's implying something, that's for sure.