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It depends on the situation but I'd say Ftilt beats dtilt 95% of times. Seriously though, it's highly situation dependent. You can't just say one is better than the other in such a broad ways.
Again, it depends on a lot of things. How was the opponent launched, his %, where are you in the stage. There is no one answer.
Kirin.
I think he should check out Izaw, too. I just found him better.
I think he should check out Izaw, too. I just found him better.
If there's a video of Link in Smash 4 on Youtube, I've most likely seen it, and I lament to say we lack real quality footage. KirinBlaze is the only player we can really name as an uncontested top Link but we only have four sets of him (a beautiful set against Chibo early in the game, two sets at apex, against Dj Relly's Sonic and against Player_1's Diddy, and a recent one against a Charizard/R.O.B.). Ninjalink's early game against a Villager is great. Many more promising Link players we don't have much footage of (BrimeZ only early game, Scizor only one set, Sabacca one very early set, none of Catpuke, none of Cyner, none of Lawz). Lord Xav1er always delivers solidly; K~Man's Link has some smart moves (but last footage of him as 2 months ago); Huggles had a nice grand final set; there's some nice friendlies of Ieven; Izaw's set against J. Miller is a good watch; Afro had a very patient and restrained if amateurish outing at a recent Norwegian tournament.
Tap down to let go of the ledge, immediately jump, input Dair.
Itried that and tapping back, jumping and inputing dair but the move takes to long to recover and i don have another jump to get back, even with upB after.. i always die lol... maybe im not doing in the right timing
Your timing is probably right. The only reason why Izaw didn't die there is because he hit Haze and used the bounce to land on the stage. If he had missed Haze he would've probably died since the timing window to do that and now die is too strict and it leaves you in a huge disadvantage. This is something that you shouldn't attempt unless you know that you'll hit your opponent.
I'm afraid someone would confirm me this lol... the fact it is risky makes it even more stylish hahahah. Will be careful, thanks for the help guys =)
Press left/right to let go of the ledge, not down. If you press down you might die.
The best options for Link OoS would be Toss a bomb, grab, upB and Usmash. However, the usmash and the upB need to be jump canceled for them to work.
Paper Maribro
Link fights are very (figurative) momentum based. When Link gets going he can be a pain but Link also can take a lot of damage from a relentless opponent when Link is at a disadvantage. Try not to let Link reset the situation. Link can have trouble KOing an opponent who plays keep away and Yoshi has good tools; if you get a stock lead you can exploit it vs Link.
I struggled to get in at all and when I was able to avoid all the projectiles I was getting tilted or jabbed or OoS punished. I'm thinking of going back to Mario to fight Link, thoughts?@
A good grab game is effective vs Link.
Getting Link offstage makes him vulnerable. Far offstage Link has few options but close to the stage Link can use fake outs and defend himself better.
This is a tough question to answer, not because the answer is tough, but because it's MU dependant. You don't play a Link with Yoshi the same way you would play him with Pacman. Since we still don't have a MU thread on Yoshi nor Pacman you are free to start either to get more precise information (and you'd be contributing to the boards since we can centralize information). Also, this is a question you might also want to ask those boards to get their input as well (you can find their respective Mu thread in our MU index). That being said, I will try to answer your question as best as I can in a general way.
As far as I know, the only way to give Zair more landing lag is if you cancel an airdodge with Zair.
1) I don't consider dash dancing with Link a valid strat because Link is already slow and he becomes even chunkier. I'd instead suggest you hop around a lot and spam, and also just run straight at people. You could practice perfect pivoting though to stop instantly and hit people.
Pros
Actually the matches you are describing are not representative of the real Link meta. It's simply the way scrubs on FG play. To beat them, depending on your char, just manage to get near them in a way that would make them start rolling and read and punish the roll. That means, learn how far the roll travel and predict where it will stop. You have a couple of frames from the moment it stops until Link can do anything so you get a window to punish. Ideally you'd want to use a long lasting hitbox, maybe dash attack, low floating dair or nair.
These are all the frame data we have to far. Not sure if it includes Zdrop and bombthrows though.
When you do, do share. Thanks.
http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8
(wich leads into nairlock wich can lead into damaging the opponent up to ~80% or kills if you hit it near the ledge due to dairspike or at hit it at high%. Ofcourse only if you are consistently in using instant z-drop and nair locks , wich should be possible imo) Although i forgot about the UpB that is faster if the jumping startup is more than 3 frames.Sabaca said:
That's... actually kind of a good point. You only have to Nair lock them all the way to the edge, and then you get a guaranteed instant z-drop to Dair spike. Maybe this Nair lock string could be useful. I figured it would be overlooked because the Nair eventually stops locking and so the effort required to learn it and get consistent at instant z-drops wouldn't be worth the average damage you get out of it all. After figuring it out I never really got the time to look into it's practical application unfortunately, but I think you've just done that XD, so good job.
If a character has a hard landing, where they are in hitstun or falling from a footstool, and gets hit with a weak attack at the right time (during the little bounce) they will be bumped a short distance and not be able to tech. This forces them to stand up without being able to roll or get up attack. So that means you get a free hit on them as they stand.
Ah yeah, so the nair cab do a jab lock. I guess only the sourspot can. But if we footstool the opponent in the air, with a FF nair we should be able to get another jab lock, right? And continue since the bomb send the character too far for footstool him. Seems very useful. Could also an instant Z-drop be useful once getting the jab lock? Because it seems hard to me to bomb shine an opponent since he will hit me before I can release the bomb, but the application of bomb shine are just too useful to don't use it.
The positioning and timing are extremely precise, but dtilt and ftilt do hit beneath the Ledge. Dtilt is a bit character dependant, but ftilt hits everyone. Finally, you can soft thrown a bomb and time it so that it will roll over the Ledge and be on top of the player's hurt box as they read the ledge so it would go off. Some characters can be stage spiked with a well time bair off stage bair as well.
While I haven't tested it, I don't smash hitting beneath the stage. It is worthy of labbing though so unless someone beats me to it I'll test it when I get home this afternoon. Considering how the knockback was changed it could be though.
