Q&A You Found the Hint Glasses! - Q&A and FAQ

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

What would cause Link's Hylian shield to not block a Falco's projectiles? I was just playing against one online and he liked to spam lasers. I figured I'd just walk up to him but every laser damaged me. I tested against the AI and his lasers hit me as well. Is there a category of projectiles the shield won't block? I was under the impression (and I have read everywhere, including in one of the major guides on this board) that the shield is supposed to block pretty much everything, "even a reflected, previously pocketed fully charged Samus Charge Shot" as one guy said. But not tiny lasers? It even blocks Mega Man's crash bomb explosion.

Well in my humble opinion there are two possible reasons as to why the H shield doesn't block lasers. I'll let you decide.
The first is that a decision was made to deliberately program the game to be that way for the sake of balancing.
The second is that lasers have transcendent priority and that the Hylian shield works by holding out a passive 'hitbox' to clash with what the game has deemed to be a projectile (and therefore can also be reflected), only you can't clash with transcendent hitboxes and so transcendent projectiles are an exception and it makes sense that the H shield wouldn't clash with them.
The problem with the second theory (which I personally find more appealing) is that there are other random exceptions (other than the lasers) that can be reflected but cannot be blocked by the H shield, and none of them are transcendent projectiles. The H shield won't block returning boomerangs or Villager's Bair (yet it blocks the front on boomerang and the Fair just fine). It's up to you to decide whether these were deliberately programmed to not be blocked by the H shield or whether they were mere oversights. If it's the former, then you'll go with the first theory; if it's the later, then the second theory holds up.

 

[Rizen]

Expanding on what Foxy said, all the attacks H Shield blocks and doesn't are listed in the OP here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/links-metagame-discuss-strategies-and-techniques-here.379659/

 

[Elessar]

What would cause Link's Hylian shield to not block a Falco's projectiles? I was just playing against one online and he liked to spam lasers. I figured I'd just walk up to him but every laser damaged me. I tested against the AI and his lasers hit me as well. Is there a category of projectiles the shield won't block? I was under the impression (and I have read everywhere, including in one of the major guides on this board) that the shield is supposed to block pretty much everything, "even a reflected, previously pocketed fully charged Samus Charge Shot" as one guy said. But not tiny lasers? It even blocks Mega Man's crash bomb explosion.

We are working on a comprehensive video detailing every projectile blocked by the shield. So far we've covered about half the roster. Sadly though, the Shield doesn't block Fox's nor Falco's blasters. These are the only projectiles not blocked. Why? No idea. There's not logic or explanation for it. It just is.

 

[SoulRed12]

@ Fox Is Openly Deceptive , @ Rizen , @ Elessar :

I'm not sure which theory I subscribe to. It does seem a bit arbitrary. Anyway, the things I can say I have learned from you all and your links (I'm trying so hard not to chuckle) are: 1) I sure as hell need to study that list of blockable and un-blockable projectiles 2) the shield can't block a tiny laser but somehow protects him from a giant motorcycle, ok 3) I missed a lot of things when checking around here. Welp, time to go lurk (and play) some more. Thanks to you all.

 

[Phill-Bot]

Ftilt is a bit too slow to use OoS. I usually Jab cancel to grab them since this again depends on what Char are you against and their weight. Some chars like Sheik are fast enough that you don't have a long time to punish so you need to go for fast attacks. Jab cancels are your best friend in these scenarios besides an OoS jump canceled upB. This is actually a very good choice (jump cancelled upB OoS) since you're standing right at the Ledge and according to our testing you can kill lighter opponents at the Ledge with an uncharged upB as soon as 110% (with Mario, could be sooner with lighter chars). Again the answer is somewhat situational except for jumpy cancel grab which works always.

What's a jumpy cancel grab? Lol

 

[Elessar]

What's a jumpy cancel grab? Lol

It's my phone hijacking my post and switching Jab cancel for jumpy cancel. The right answer was Jab cancel grab.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Elessar: "Again the answer is somewhat situational except for jab cancel grab which works always."
Phone: "The **** is a jab cancel? You must mean jumpy cancel right? I'll just put jumpy cancel."

 

[PepaCorn]

..........

 

[Elessar]

So I don't know if this is super obvious or anything as generally when recovering with link I just up B, but I was just playing for glory in a link ditto and it looked as if my opponent used his boomerang to propel his up B further. Is this just me imagining things or can you do this?

As far as we know the gale doesn't aid your recovery at all. Can you describe more what he was doing? How did he throw the gale, how did he recover, and why do you think that he was aiding his recovery?

 

[PepaCorn]

..........

 

[Elessar]

It's probably nothing, It just seemed like the gale slightly increased the height his recovery took him. I cant really describe any more it as I forgot to save the replay

Well I'll be labbing this just to double check, but we're pretty sure that the gale doesn't do anything to our recovery.

 

[PepaCorn]

..........

 

[Galexyz]

Hello,

I’ve read Kaizen’s link on dtilt before posting this:

I was practicing the jab cancel to dsmash with Link against a Mario. I came across something very interesting by mistake (while trying to cancel jab 2 with a down input).

I was able to Jab 1 > Jab 2 > dtilt and spike Mario from the edge of the stage, killing him in the process. He was at 0% before the jabs.

Could this be viable? I need to do more testing since currently I am not able to do it consistently, but seems like a good tool against edge campers like Samus.

Character: Link (default)
CPU: Mario
Mode: Training
Level: Mushroom Kingdom Omega
Damage: 0%
Position: Right-side Ledge (at the very end)
Inputs: jab 1, jab 2, down tilt

The timing / positioning is a little awkward, jab 2 needs to push the opponent off the ledge and hit with dtilt at the right height in order to spike.

 

[Elessar]

Hello,

I’ve read Kaizen’s link on dtilt before posting this:

I was practicing the jab cancel to dsmash with Link against a Mario. I came across something very interesting by mistake (while trying to cancel jab 2 with a down input).

I was able to Jab 1 > Jab 2 > dtilt and spike Mario from the edge of the stage, killing him in the process. He was at 0% before the jabs.

Could this be viable? I need to do more testing since currently I am not able to do it consistently, but seems like a good tool against edge campers like Samus.

Character: Link (default)
CPU: Mario
Mode: Training
Level: Mushroom Kingdom Omega
Damage: 0%
Position: Right-side Ledge (at the very end)
Inputs: jab 1, jab 2, down tilt

The timing / positioning is a little awkward, jab 2 needs to push the opponent off the ledge and hit with dtilt at the right height in order to spike.

The problem with this is that dtilt has a lot of start up, and coupled that with how jab 2 positions opponents you could get punished for it. This is specially true since the dtilt spike is very situational, the spacing has to be almost perfect. I'd recommend test it more but not in matches, but in lab. that means, go to training with a friend, or in a match vs a friend, and test it to see whether he can escape or shield after jab 2. Then you'll know if it's viable or not. If he can, try it again but dtilting after jab 1. if he can't escape that means it's viable.

 

[Noso]

Can anyone explain to me what LPP - lowest possible percent means found in eshu125's guide?

 

[Elessar]

Can anyone explain to me what LPP - lowest possible percent means found in eshu125's guide?

Without reading that guide I think he means one of two things: 1) the least amount of damage an attack can produce after staying and variables are take into account, or 2) the lower threshold for something to happen, example kill percent. This means the earliest percent possible in which you can kill your opponent with a single attack.

I don't know the context though because I haven't read that guide, so read it again with this in mind and see which one applies.

 

[Zelkam]

Can anyone explain to me what LPP - lowest possible percent means found in eshu125's guide?

Elessar meant to say staling, not staying btw. His phone hijacked his post again.

 

[Noso]

After reading about stalling I think that's probably what it is, thanks for the help Elessar and Zelkam!

 

[Artmastercorey]

Question: Is link faster than toonlink outside of running animation?

 

[Nimious]

My question is about how to best DI out of throw combos.

I've been looking for a section on how to best DI out of high tier's throws. In particular I'm looking to DI out of Luigi's throw but I would like to know how best to specifically DI out of any throws that leads to combos. For Luigi I know at low percentages you can't do much for the first Down Throw -> Fairs but what comes after depends on how you DI.

I've probably spent half an hour reading stickies and going through other threads but I haven't found a clear answer for Link. I tried looking at match-ups but I don't think it's there for Luigi. I think it'd help a lot of Links if there's a section compiling how best to DI out of so and so's throw.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Elessar]

Question: Is link faster than toonlink outside of running animation?

No, Gay is overall faster or at least has the same speed than Link in everything.

My question is about how to best DI out of throws.

I've been looking for a section on how to best DI out of high tier's throws. In particular I'm looking to DI out of Luigi's throw but I would like to know how best to specifically DI out of any throws that leads to combos. For Luigi I know at low percentages you can't do much for the first Down Throw -> Fairs but what comes after depends on how you DI.

I've probably spent half an hour reading stickies and going through other threads but I haven't found a clear answer for Link. I tried looking at match-ups but I don't think it's there for Luigi. I think it'd help a lot of Links if there's a section compiling how best to DI out of so and so's throw.

Thanks for your time.

Problem with Link is that due to his heavy weight he is easily juggled, so DIing out of throws isn't really possible until higher percentages. I would say however, and I'd like a verification on this, that usually to escape throw combos you have to DI away from the character, so basically accelerate your momentum. However, this is a bit tricky since it depends a lot on the damage you have. You want to DI enough to escape a combo but not enough to kill yourself. In this regards there is no clear cut answer, but variables dependent on the MU. You need to know the options the character you are facing has. For instance, Fox usually dthrows into fair. After a dthrow you know a fair is coming, you know the trajectory you're supposed to travel and be to be hit, so you DI out of that path.

It is important though to remember that you won't be able to DI out of every throw combo, some of them will always land depending on your percentage. Thus, if you want to know specific answers I'd recommend going to a MU thread and post there and expect a greater variety of replies. If you can't find the MU thread, like Luigi's, it's because we don't have it. In this case feel free to create one with the appropriate title ([MU] Luigi for instance).

 

[Artmastercorey]

It seems to me like Link has less end lag on most of his moves though. He seems quicker

 

[Elessar]

It seems to me like Link has less end lag on most of his moves though. He seems quicker

Oh you meant end lag. I thought you meant start up lag.

I'm not so sure on end lag since I'm not that familiar with Gay, but some of Link's moves do have less end lag, albeit slightly I believe.

 

[Artmastercorey]

yeah im pretty sure link is a quicker character overall. Majority of his moves start just as fast and have less end lag. He's less punishable

 

[Nimious]

No, Gay is overall faster or at least has the same speed than Link in everything.



Problem with Link is that due to his heavy weight he is easily juggled, so DIing out of throws isn't really possible until higher percentages. I would say however, and I'd like a verification on this, that usually to escape throw combos you have to DI away from the character, so basically accelerate your momentum. However, this is a bit tricky since it depends a lot on the damage you have. You want to DI enough to escape a combo but not enough to kill yourself. In this regards there is no clear cut answer, but variables dependent on the MU. You need to know the options the character you are facing has. For instance, Fox usually dthrows into fair. After a dthrow you know a fair is coming, you know the trajectory you're supposed to travel and be to be hit, so you DI out of that path.

It is important though to remember that you won't be able to DI out of every throw combo, some of them will always land depending on your percentage. Thus, if you want to know specific answers I'd recommend going to a MU thread and post there and expect a greater variety of replies. If you can't find the MU thread, like Luigi's, it's because we don't have it. In this case feel free to create one with the appropriate title ([MU] Luigi for instance).

I see but based on experience I know in some situations DI away is the wrong option. For example when Captain Falcon grabs you and goes for the double Up Airs upon getting hit by the first one you DI down and he will whiff the second while you will be in position to Nair punish him. For Mario when he goes for his down throw into up tilts, DI away will get you caught whereas holding down and holding shield will get you on the ground and shield it. In both examples I am unsure if they work all the time but they have worked for me at certain percentages. This kind of DI does not work for all characters of course but in Links case sometimes his DI is different which is why I was looking for a compilation of DI on specific throws.

If there's no thread already would it be alright to start a thread on collecting data for appropriate DI out of character's grabs?

 

[Elessar]

I see but based on experience I know in some situations DI away is the wrong option. For example when Captain Falcon grabs you and goes for the double Up Airs upon getting hit by the first one you DI down and he will whiff the second while you will be in position to Nair punish him. For Mario when he goes for his down throw into up tilts, DI away will get you caught whereas holding down and holding shield will get you on the ground and shield it. In both examples I am unsure if they work all the time but they have worked for me at certain percentages. This kind of DI does not work for all characters of course but in Links case sometimes his DI is different which is why I was looking for a compilation of DI on specific throws.

If there's no thread already would it be alright to start a thread on collecting data for appropriate DI out of character's grabs?

It should be noted that now you're talking about DI to escape combos, not throws. When I said "DI Away" I meant throws, not combos (after Falcon hit you with the first uair you'd be escaping a combo, not a throw). Even still, I said that it depends a lot on your dmg %, and the character so it's a MU issues rather than a fixed one.

You can make the thread, but I'd suggest doing it for DI in general and read the survival tips on naming threads.

 

[Nimious]

It should be noted that now you're talking about DI to escape combos, not throws. When I said "DI Away" I meant throws, not combos (after Falcon hit you with the first uair you'd be escaping a combo, not a throw). Even still, I said that it depends a lot on your dmg %, and the character so it's a MU issues rather than a fixed one.

You can make the thread, but I'd suggest doing it for DI in general and read the survival tips on naming threads.

Oh sorry, to clarify I meant throw combos.

Sure, I'll read it again to avoid a public lynching.

 

[FSK]

Oh sorry, to clarify I meant throw combos.

Sure, I'll read it again to avoid a public lynching.

When it comes to DI'ing throw comboes theres not a clear answer most of the time. Many throw comboes rely on you DI'ing predictively for instance ZSS dthrow to uair. To avoid those you need to mixup your DI, make them at best guess where you are going to be. For instance if you DI away from diddy on all throws he will still reach you because he will take the DI into account, but if you suddenly DI inwards it might throw off the diddy. You should predict how the opponents thinks you will DI and do the opposite. For combos usually you want to get as far away from your opponent as possible so you have time to get out of hitstun and throw out a jump/airdodge/attack. However for some combos the opponent is relying on you to DI away, so you'll have to mix it up. Its a topic where we all just need to sit down and experiment to find the best options.

(I would also like to thank you for posting your question here and actually taking the time to learn some of the rules of the board instead of "hurr durr make thread to feed me knowledge")

@ Elessar @ Nimious I think it would be a great to have a DI thread where we go through all the characters bread and butter combos and figure out if its possible to reliably DI out of them.

 

[Nimious]

When it comes to DI'ing throw comboes theres not a clear answer most of the time. Many throw comboes rely on you DI'ing predictively for instance ZSS dthrow to uair. To avoid those you need to mixup your DI, make them at best guess where you are going to be. For instance if you DI away from diddy on all throws he will still reach you because he will take the DI into account, but if you suddenly DI inwards it might throw off the diddy. You should predict how the opponents thinks you will DI and do the opposite. For combos usually you want to get as far away from your opponent as possible so you have time to get out of hitstun and throw out a jump/airdodge/attack. However for some combos the opponent is relying on you to DI away, so you'll have to mix it up. Its a topic where we all just need to sit down and experiment to find the best options.

(I would also like to thank you for posting your question here and actually taking the time to learn some of the rules of the board instead of "hurr durr make thread to feed me knowledge")

@ Elessar @ Nimious I think it would be a great to have a DI thread where we go through all the characters bread and butter combos and figure out if its possible to reliably DI out of them.

Thanks for the insight. Yes a lot of times it's all about DI mix ups but it would still help greatly to know what works best. Personally I wasn't so sure how to DI for Diddy's up throw but to have you confirm DI inwards may work does help. It's things like that, even as simple as removing some doubt that could help Links greatly.

I think I will make the thread and I hope it helps .

 

[BurstPanther]

Thanks for the insight. Yes a lot of times it's all about DI mix ups but it would still help greatly to know what works best. Personally I wasn't so sure how to DI for Diddy's up throw but to have you confirm DI inwards may work does help. It's things like that, even as simple as removing some doubt that could help Links greatly.

I think I will make the thread and I hope it helps .

I've found that especially at low percentages, DI'ing up i believe works quite well, opponents normally expect a DI to a side, so when you throw a bit of up into the mix you can normally get out pretty quick. I learnt that one of Zero.

Obviously at high % you could kill yourself haha

 

[Huggles828]

Got a bit of a random question, if anyone knows off the top of their head. If you have tapjump off, can you techjump by holding up or do you have to actually hit jump? I did it in the heat of the moment and tend to hit inputs on pure instinct, so I don't think I hit the jump button (in my brain I "pull out a bomb," I don't "hit down and b," I "bombsmash," I don't "use the cstick while holding down A with a bomb in hand") but I'd like to actually know for sure whether or not I can/did.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Got a bit of a random question, if anyone knows off the top of their head. If you have tapjump off, can you techjump by holding up or do you have to actually hit jump? I did it in the heat of the moment and tend to hit inputs on pure instinct, so I don't think I hit the jump button (in my brain I "pull out a bomb," I don't "hit down and b," I "bombsmash," I don't "use the cstick while holding down A with a bomb in hand") but I'd like to actually know for sure whether or not I can/did.

You can tech jump by hitting up even if tap jump is turned off, but I'll tell you something even better than that. If you hold up even before you tech, and then tech while holding up, it will automatically tech jump for you. No timing required (except for the tech of course).

 

[Huggles828]

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Foxy. Makes it much easier than I was making it on myself to techjump now haha.

 

[Linkmario00]

I have a little question. How can I perform soft bomb throwing and when should I use that in an actual match?

 

[Elessar]

I have a little question. How can I perform soft bomb throwing and when should I use that in an actual match?

Here's the video and talking about how to do it. And you want to do it as much as possible since it gives you stage control.

 

[link7]

Here's the video and talking about how to do it. And you want to do it as much as possible since it gives you stage control.

You beat me to this by a minute. Curse you.

 

[Elessar]

You beat me to this by a minute. Curse you.

Get sniped son.

 

[Koby_T]

Trying to shore up some weaknesses in my neutral this week. What situations do you find yourself using Zair? Or, what does your opponent do that makes you think, "I could shut that down with Zair."?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Zair is great for covering a long distance in a short amount of time, so for example if my opponent gets hit with a projectile and they are a decent way away, then Zair will often be the only thing I could possibly follow up with in time. I believe that in general it should be used in situations where the opponent isn't able to cover the distance between you in the same amount of time that it takes for Zair to come out. The will mean that Zair's usefulness will be very matchup dependant. If the opponent is like Fox or Sheik, using Zair in the neutral game can be very risky. And speaking of character dependence, if the character is small or they have a low running animation, then this is also a good reason to re-consider using Zair as often they will just run right under it. I find that it works well on Rosalina when Luma is with her as it is a nice and safe poking/pressuring tool, in fact, against any character who has a strong zoning game, if they believe that they don't need to approach or get in your face, Zair becomes that much better.

 

[Fangblade]

Q.Which is more useful Ftilt or Dtilt?
Q. Best follow-up after a bomb connects?
Q. Any top notch Link players I should check out?