Yoshi vs. ______

[PXTalon2000]

Could you tell me how Yoshi's s'posta' punish Peach's dash attack?

 

[rmusgrave]

Could you tell me how Yoshi's s'posta' punish Peach's dash attack?

Best ways I've found, are DJCing through it, f-smashing before she gets there so you can overprioritise it, RDJC around it, or CC and d-smash. Some of these are % dependant though, so I wouldn't rely on them to much.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

i try abusing the range on dtilt when she dash attacks.

 

[Unrefined]

I just try to get peach in the air as soon as possible, with short up uair, neutral b, throw, utilt something, once shes up there, yoshi has the advantage.

Egg's upsmash uairs all punish peach since she falls slow, egg's help the most since she weaves around alot. Just my way of dealing with her, and when shes on the ground, i keep distance and try to get a turnip from her as well, and just try and mimic what she does by throwing turnips at charging opponents, just being smart about it beats any little techniques for me.

 

[Deleted member]

this may sound dumb but uhh.....if peach downsmash....hop in and eat her? Neutral B is a fun move I'm finding more and more...

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

i've had my down smash attempts shield grabbed by rmusgrave enough times to say that its effective, the shield push from the attack will put yoshi at just the right distance to grab peach and the the total defense of yoshi's shield will ensure your legs don't get clipped.

 

[Unrefined]

Marth's Sword

I had a question for you guys about Marth.

As we all know, his Sword is not apart of Marth hit box, meaning he cant be hurt if you attack his sword, you must hit his body, and basically all of his moves involve the sword, meaning its like a sword of invunerability, alot of marths spam aerials with lcancelling meaning the sword is practically out all the time, it can stop eggs and you have to get in really close to hit marth, was wondering how some people deal with Marth played like this, not just a cstick fsmash spam marth, those are easy ;p

Marth is easy to combo for yoshi, but im just curious of what you guys would do against someone like this.

 

[Phatgamer1]

I usually try to get underneath him, or behind him. Then combo with B air or U-tilt. Meh.

 

[rmusgrave]

Well, for marth, a little mindgame I like to use is to use your pullback on your f-smash to make his tip-aimed attacks miss. Since that happens, then the marth will try to space himself closer, so then you have a better opportunity to get inside his range. It's worked for me so far, against the marths I've come across.


My problem at the moment is Fox. At the level I'm at at the moment, Fox isn't too hard. He's easy to edgeguard and outprioritise aerially, and I even knocked out two Fox players from @M. However, I played some friendlies against Captain Jack's fox, and 0_o. I got owned really badly. I noticed Yoshi's shield drags him down a lot in this matchup, because if you shield, you often don't have enough time to unshield without getting punished. Fox can edgeguard Yoshi really well with up-airs, allowing him to combo from breaking my double jump, to another KO up-air.

I wish I could remember more about this matchup, but most of the friendlies against CJ's fox are just a blur of ownage lol.

(And just so you know, I could stand up to his sheik, so it wasn't just my lack of skill compared to him XD)

 

[jv3x3]

^^ Fox and falco are major problems for yoshi. Id rather play a peach than falco. Couple edgeguards and u can even it out, but its not a good matchup. And theres a big difference playing a sheik that chain grabs to a sheik that doesnt with yoshi.

 

[Erusmors]

Space animals aren't that difficult to compete against. Yoshi's DJ goes through their aerials, and their recoveries are way easy to predict and guard. A well timed downsmash ends up in a dead space animal. They're also easy to juggle around because of their falling speed. Just L cancel your aerials and always be on the offense.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

c'mon lets get real here, if you try to DJC you might run into an uair and chances are you'll get shined off the ledge right after. DJC has its uses but against fox and falco dtilt is what i find myself doing alot. then again im not a yoshi master but i know a good amount.

 

[Straight]

sheiks have to be yoshi's toughest opponent. those **** sheik *******. Peach, while still tough, does not even come close to how tough sheik is to play against

 

[Erusmors]

Yeah, dtilt is way handy against the space animals. You just gotta play offensive, and once you get them off the edge, you can keep them off the edge really easily. And Yoshi has an impeccable edgehog, which is very handy against Falco because of his short recovery. Fox falls fast, and if you can hit him with an egg while he's charging the Fire Fox, all the better.

 

[YOSHIDO]

Hmm yoshi is good on everyone. It is alot more diffuclt to beat sheik, samus. It takes a while. I cause of shots but u still win

 

[lemon_87]

this may sound like a stupid ? but what is a pal version??? i play a decent yoshi, but not when im playin serious, just not that wonderful... but ya... what is a pal versoin

 

[rmusgrave]

PAL version is the European and Australian version of SSBM. It has a few changes, and a few glitches taken out. Particularly, Sheik's d-throw was nerfed so that she can no longer chain throw a DIing Yoshi to high %, and Yoshi's weight was increased. This significantly advantages Yoshi, and he is slightly higher on the PAL tier list.

EDIT:

For those who don't have mbr access, Yoshi's been downgraded to low tier. Now we can boast all the more when we beat any player who uses a character above mid tier. ^_^

 

[Straight]

Haha. ****ing sweet. not even top of the low tiers either:D

 

[Werewolf]

Hmm...from what I've noticed is that shiek is my toughest opponent...I think all sheik players are ******* who need to pick up REAL chars and not ****** like her.

Peach and Shiek are the two hardest characters for me to fight from what I've seen. Peach just punishes me cuz im afraid to crouch cancel her w/ that stupid down smash and shieks speed is just 2 insane.

I don't know what ur talking about the space animals being hard...they are easy to beat IMO...space animals = easy comboing

Samus and Marth aren't that hard for me either....I've taken out many a good marth and samus. With most chars I fight I spam the heck outta eggs and it keeps people on their toes. Once I get someone into a combo usually they are screwed for about 50% dmg...if not more.

O yah...2 other chars which are a pain for me are ganon and jiggly. Ganon because of the fact he does such massive damage it totally can cancel out a djc and jiggly because she can recover so fast its hard for me to hit her n I've been fighting my friends jiggly lately and I figured yoshi had an edge...man I was wrong. His jiggly is a beast and I really have problems with it....but of course I still win...usually at least...

O yah I was also wondering...who do you guys think has the best yoshi in the U.S. and the best Yoshi overseas.

Im thinking Fumi for Japan...jeez that yoshi is insane...and in the U.S. straights yoshi...

man straight i wanted to fight you at MOAST 3, but i couldn't go...try and come back to texas for like MO4ST aka Moast 4...or for another tourney period...that would be awesome. People told me my Yoshi is right below yours and from what I've seen, your yoshi is the best U.S. yoshi....but thats only from what i've seen in vids, who knows if Rmusgrave or any of these other yoshi users are good...although I haven't seen many, if none at all...

 

[rmusgrave]

Hey werewolf ^_^

Peach and Shiek are the two hardest characters for me to fight from what I've seen. Peach just punishes me cuz im afraid to crouch cancel her w/ that stupid down smash and shieks speed is just 2 insane.

I'll agree with that from a 3rd person perspective, lol, because PAL Sheik is a LOT easier to verse without the chain throw and easy d-throw comboes. I find that the best way to verse Sheik is to be defensive and use a lot of RDJCs. Since this ruin's Sheik's spacing, you can then switch between RDJCs and straight attacks to confuse her even more. That's what I've found works, but I still think Yoshi has a slight disadvantage against a good PAL Sheik.

Peach just owns me though >_>

I don't know what ur talking about the space animals being hard...they are easy to beat IMO...space animals = easy comboing

I know they have easy comboing, but it's hard to land a combo on them. Fox is faster than Sheik, and can dodge your attacks really easily, and punish you. Falco may not be as fast, but that SHL slows you down so much it effectively gives the same effect. Still, they're decent matches for Yoshi, and since I'm not versing CJ anytime soon I'll be fine for the moment. ^_^


Samus, Marth, Ganon and Jiggs I haven't had real trouble with before, but that's mainly because most of the people in Australia that play them are still catching up to the standard. Ganon I outspeed, Samus I outmaneuvre, Marth is annoying, but DJC and good spacing takes him out, and Jiggs is all about the upsmash/upair. And eggs for them all

O yah I was also wondering...who do you guys think has the best yoshi in the U.S. and the best Yoshi overseas.

Well, as you said, Fumi is probably the best in Japan, followed by Brown Mario apparently. In America, I can only vouch for those I've seen vids of, so that would be Straight/Gabe. And in Australia, I think I proved my worth by coming 4th in @M, and since no one else used Yoshi in the tournament, I would assume I'm the best here

I'll be happy if someone proves me wrong though, because I love a challenge


And, my names on my vids, incase you don't know Werewolf, is 'Bringer' or 'BringerofDeath'. Check 'em out, and tell me where I went wrong if you want

 

[Werewolf]

AHHHHHHHHHH...so YOUR bringerofdeath

I've seen a few of ur vids awhile back...although I can't remember them at the moment...

I'll watch them again and see what you did good or wrong...and hopefully I can show you updated vids of my yoshi soon or at least once i get my stupid computer fixed...

 

[Electricmouse]

You shoulda recorded the match we had wolf.

 

[Werewolf]

Don't relish in ur victory nick...your pikachu is still gonna go down...i didn't expect you to get THAT much better w/ ur pika, so you caught me off guard...prepare to die...

 

[rmusgrave]

Make sure you get some of the newer ones. Some of my old ones are soooo shocking lol.

I find a lot of mistakes I make are technical errors, but if you can find some other errors, tell me. ^_^ The more criticism I get, the better I can become.

 

[Werewolf]

Oh...yah i was thinking some of ur older vids were pretty bad if i recall...lol

 

[Straight]

Go to fc werewolf, Ill probably be going there in the summer hopefully.

Just to stay on topic, I just realized how hard playing a peach is. Those **** peach players, especially when they camp with turnips. ******* ... lol. THey just have way too much priority. And i dont get why some people say yoshi counters marth. Playing against any good marth players is tough for me. Maybe its just me though

 

[YOSHIDO]

At the tourney im goin to be usin yoshi my best charcter. I dont face alot of mario's or any yoshis. any tips.

 

[Erusmors]

And i dont get why some people say yoshi counters marth. Playing against any good marth players is tough for me. Maybe its just me though

Yoshi is a counter for Marth because he can DJC through Marth's ranged attacks. Personally, I find this to be bull****, and I hate playing any characters with swords. Marth's also pretty floaty, so you only have so much time before he recovers and dairs you.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

it is bull****, anyone who claims it to be effective is really out there (a nice way of saying ********). the only thing i see yoshi doing to marth is dtilt and dtilt edge guard. it works well and marth recovery isnt horizontal friendly.

 

[YOSHIDO]

I hate to face marth. becuase his mid range sword. I have to aim just right with the egg.

 

[dan smith]

My patented "Yoshi counters Marth" rant.

Yoshi does counter Marth. I have experienced it...so I don't really see it as a huge debate.

I used to play Yoshi quite a lot (now he is a side character) and I had to fight my marth friend all the time. At first I didn't really see the counter but after getting used to fighting Marth I understood what to do. It's a different style of Yoshi all together.

I ended up using lots of DAs and tilts and becomming pretty even with the Marth. It's not like I would destroy him but the matchup was even.

He slashes, I Forward Tilt to block and then run in with a DA. Silly little tricks like that. The Down Tilt edgeguard does also help with KOs a ton. Egg Throw is good for forcing Marth to attack (he is better on defense) and then having a great amount of Strength allows Yoshi to dodge Marth's assault and reply with a large amount of damage.

The best is juggling though: SHFFLD Bair>Up Tilt (as many as you can)>Up Smash>DJC Uairs (as many as you can).

The invinciple DJ not only helps Yoshi get back on stage but keeps his Uairs from being interrupted. It's a fun matchup, the Marth won't be conquered but he can be given a run for his money.

(Sorry for the long dull post)

 

[rmusgrave]

DAs?


I personally haven't had that much trouble with Marth... I find its mostly a spacing issue. If you can either space yourself to be outside his range, or to be within his range enough to DJC through the attack and punish him, you're doing well.

As Dan said, Marth has little priority, just a lot of disjointed hitboxes. You can quite often just outprioritise his moves, then either d-tilt him, or run away and egg spam, its your choice really.

I still don't think it favours Yoshi, but its not too hard imo.

 

[dan smith]

DA = Dash Attack...or were you doubting it's usability?

I like Yoshi's DA...:D

I agree that the matchup may still favour Marth...but Yoshi simply does way better against Marth than a character as low on the tiers as himself should do. (the definition of a counter!)

 

[rmusgrave]

When you say, DA (or pivot, as I prefer to call it), which attack are you pivoting? Are you pivoting a smash or a tilt or what? Just saying that you're pivoting doesn't really help us lol.

But yeah, if pivoting helps, I might have to try it out. Sounds like fun ^_^


EDIT: Hah, completely misread your post. Sorry. Dash attack is quite useful in this matchup, you're right. >_> *Feels like an idiot*

 

[Galeon]

The Dash attack is great at about 50 percent and over but before that, they hardly get knocked back and it usually turns out bad.

 

[Erusmors]

Yoshi's DA = awesome combo setter-upper, especially against the space animals. At the right percentages you can DA them twice, then downsmash them before they can get up. Or you can DA, then ftilt them so that they're in the air behind you, then bair and nair/uair. Yoshi's DA is actually very, very useful.

 

[Werewolf]

DA is a great move...and your right it can be comboed w/ against the space animals...of course...it sux against chars that have really good crouch cancels...like peach or samus...its works good on them once they are about 75%...MAYBE...

Also...I like to do combo's w/ eggs...i find those VERY useful...

 

[Erusmors]

I only find myself using eggs if either A, I ledge cancel them, or B, the opponent is up in the air. Mostly I ledge cancel them. It's a good way to grab the ledge from the platform and I'm also working on perfecting the timing so I ledgehop and RDJ and fair my opponent into the abyss while he's stunned and in the air from the egg, like Fumi does against the Ness. I've actually been able to pull it off a couple of times, it looks really sweet.

 

[Acryte]

rmusgrave, I listened to what you said about peach, and I may be a little off but I think I need to state something. I used to play jigglypuff, and against peach I had some major problems in that I always had to be in their face to hit (all melee attacks) and that peach always starts at 0% damage. you see, I would hit them with puff punches and bairs but other than that, peach is waiting for you because your attacks at low damage aren't gonna make her fly far enough away to where you aren't open to that beast of a dsmash. however, though I understand what you mean about cc against peach as she can hit for 50-60+ uncharged with 1 dsmash on a crouched oponent, you must realize 2 things. first, against peach, never dtilt if you are right next to her, to a DJC sex kick instead, at worst the DJC will absorb the damage and the kick will throw them back. secondly, peach's gatling combo isn't going to lock you in for repeated hits, it isn't like fox where if he locks you in, you cc and then low tilt, you instead need to play off yoshi's other strengths. if you find yourself right beside peach and don't want to DJC to a sex kick then may I suggest yoshi's 2 hit gatlin combo? I have found that in my experiences, it cancels out peach's dsmash if both hits connect. chink, chink, and then you're both standing there... what move has range and hits incredibly fast? dsmash. bust that out right afterwards, follow it up with an egg and then chase them down. you're only gonna find yourself in trouble against peach if you try to headbutt at low damages. don't. I find that yoshi is best when you not only adapt for specific characters, but also adapt for different damages. thusly, at early damages I try to do DJC bairs and follow them up with an up tilt. then I follow that up with DJC up aerials so that they pull me to the ground so I can hit them again with one before they can tech. if they stay down you can time it to hit again anyways if the invincibility wears off, or you can start up the mind games using a DJC press nair and then down before the kick comes out. this makes you fall VERY fast, so you are jumping up and hitting the ground alot, be prepared so that whichever direction they do in or if they go straight up, you can use a DJC dair. if they manage to escape that, they will be away from you, at this point you will:

(A): throw eggs like mad.
(B): catch any turnips she throws out of the air and throw them back.

she should now have more than enough damage on her to switch into the I'm gonna mix up backward wavedashes into fsmashes, dtilt to egg throws or headbutts, and dsmashes. but mostly remember that at high damage, you must use up aerials like a mother. hit her with ftilts and egg her a few times, she won't expect you to switch it up and go for the up air.

 

[rmusgrave]

however, though I understand what you mean about cc against peach as she can hit for 50-60+ uncharged with 1 dsmash on a crouched oponent, you must realize 2 things. first, against peach, never dtilt if you are right next to her, to a DJC sex kick instead, at worst the DJC will absorb the damage and the kick will throw them back.

Um, sorry, but this won't work. D-tilt knocks her back far enough to avoid retaliation from anything except possibly a dash attack. If she down smashes, you will probably get caught in 2 hits, then you should have released your downwards direction and you will be fine. Whereas, if you try to do a DJC sex kick and she down smashes, you may cancel one or two hits of the dsmash, but then get caught in it without your double jump. This has led to my death very often, so I usually either use the double kick or f-tilt when I'm standing right next to her.

I'll agree with you to mix up your moves and change your strategy at different damages, but you have to remember that a good Peach will always be on the lookout for your d-smash, up-smash and up-air (and f-smash to a lesser extent) as they are pretty much death to her at high %.