Yoshi v. Snake

[Shiri]

Yoshi should take advantage of his ****ty throw knockback in this match up. If i get the opportunity to throw snake off the map i try to punish the **** out of him. Many snakes will jump after being foward thrown by yoshi in an attempt to get back to the stage above you. I always throw a high egg to counter that immediate jump. After landing the egg, read Snake. He is typically going to land on the stage with a back air (stupid good priority) or an air dodge. This is your chance to use your sick pivot grab game to try and throw him back off the stage and repeat. If the snake tries to avoid the egg and go low to grab the edge, try to dash grab and prevent that from happening. I haven't played any top level Snakes with my yoshi, but this tactic works well for me in the Snakes that i have played.

Hi. How are you? :D

 

[I SEE YOU]

Oh and another random tid bit on this match up: If you grab Snake at low percents, (under 25%) attempt an up throw. This may sound silly, but if they immediately try to air dodge you can punish with an upsmash. In a match up where adding damage is pivotal, every bit of damage is good.

Hi. How are you? :D

I'm doing well Shiri. I do main d3, but i have more fun with Yoshi, so i may try and use him more in upcoming tournaments to see how i do. MY YOSHI IS LEGIT SON

 

[bigman40]

Oh and another random tid bit on this match up: If you grab Snake at low percents, (under 25%) attempt an up throw. This may sound silly, but if they immediately try to air dodge you can punish with an upsmash. In a match up where adding damage is pivotal, every bit of damage is good.



I'm doing well Shiri. I do main d3, but i have more fun with Yoshi, so i may try and use him more in upcoming tournaments to see how i do. MY YOSHI IS LEGIT SON

You were at the halloween bash tourney right? Why is your Location in AL then if you're on the PRs? Also, didn't know you played Yoshi. (my memory sucks lol)

 

[I SEE YOU]

This is elev8 I'm in Phenix City, AL like my brother. I was unable to make it to the Halloween Bash.

 

[bigman40]

This is elev8 I'm in Phenix City, AL like my brother. I was unable to make it to the Halloween Bash.

Oh wow. I need to remember SWF names more often @.@ I can't wait till we play again


~Mieu

 

[Double_Edge]

Can we go over this MU, i have a tourny Saturday and its suppose to be filled with alot of snake players. One of my main problems is fighting in close range with snake (as well as other characters). what should i be doing?

 

[Shiri]

First off, SICK AVATAR

Next, I would really recommend just reading over the thread as not much information has changed really. There are barely over forty posts and most of them are useful, so that would be my honest suggestion.

 

[Sharky]

don't try to kill snake, just let it happen. This is a matchup where if you don't have to approach snake, you shouldn't. Getting him in the air is a very good thing though, cause he doesn't like having people below him, so if you're going to approach, do it for that.

 

[Airborne]

At low %'s, if you manage to commence a juggle, with say, Bair->Utilt, or one of our throws, the snake may throw out a bair rather than an airdodge. Prepare for this and shieldgrab it.

Also:
-We can shield grab utilt
-We can shield grab ftilt; I don't recommend using pivot grab when he's going to ftilt because he can hit us on our nose during the animation before our tongue makes contact.
-We can shield grab dash attack and DACUS (takes a little more wisdom of where they will be open during the animation; you may have to grab him when he passes you.)
-Be VERY wary of returning to the ledge; dropping from the ledge and DJing up may result in you getting the **** from snake's nair
-Egg lay tech chase can **** snake if baited correctly
-Tossing an egg at the shortest height right above your head when predicting a grab from the snake will knock him out of the grab, and can give you a free follow-up (Discovered this during my research into my "Egg Trapping" project)
-Snake is one of the easiest characters to fight when air camping
-If obtained early enough, grabbing a grenade will give us our best OoS.
-If both of you are knocked into the air by an explosion, don't mash uair; either buffer it, or mash nair. XD

I think that's all I got for now.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I think if you're really patient it's almost even, but ima say 55:45 or 60:40 snake's adv for this MU, cuz it seems like even if we make one mistake, we either take a good ammount of damage, or die :/

EDIT:Spelling errorz

 

[Silent Beast]

Also:
-We can shield grab utilt
-We can shield grab ftilt

At max range?

-Tossing an egg at the shortest height right above your head when predicting a grab from the snake will knock him out of the grab, and can give you a free follow-up (Discovered this during my research into my "Egg Trapping" project)

Follow up with what? How much time do we have?

 

[.Marik]

Might as well start lurking this thread again.

The matchup is difficult, I think everyone can agree Snake beats Yoshi 60:40 or more.

But, what stages could I counterpick a Snake on?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Might as well start lurking this thread again.

The matchup is difficult, I think everyone can agree Snake beats Yoshi 60:40 or more.

But, what stages could I counterpick a Snake on?

Distant Planet >.> I actually like PS2 cuz the stage changes screw him up and not us :D

 

[Deleted member]

Snake is 40:60, no better no worse.

Yoshi can very viably beat snake, and has guarenteed frame traps if you get snake in the air without a double jump (isnt rare at all)

We combo snake pretty well, and we can prevent his camp. Only problem is killing and downthrow (besides normal snake being a good character stuff).

Make sure you camp him midrange and long range, u can throw nades back and also egg and wear down his shield. Dont grab too aggressively but mix up empty jumps, back airs and grabs. Ftilt is good cuz u can often get two of them.

Grab trap snake on landing, its easy and useful.

I just go neutrals, snake does fine on most CPs. Rainbow cruise works too.

Ill make a video of yoshis frame trap juggles cuz ive never seen anyone use them.

 

[bigman40]

Stocy, the odds of you getting out another match is next to 0.

 

[Sugahighsnipa]

This......... would probably be a hard match-up

 

[Braxton2011]

It's not as hard as you may think. It just takes a little knowledge, and frame data.

Just don't get bair'd off stage after double jump. You'll feel like an idiot when you don't DI it and you die, or when you survive, you come down and he Nair's you

 

[Z'zgashi]

It's not as hard as you may think. It just takes a little knowledge, and frame data.

Just don't get bair'd off stage after double jump. You'll feel like an idiot when you don't DI it and you die, or when you survive, you come down and he Nair's you

That's never happened to me before, but it sounds dangerous... im just scared at those ensane tilts, broken range & speed = you just got ***** @_@

 

[indigestible_wad]

I never thought of shield grabbing. I like that idea.

 

[bigman40]

SDI Nair. You shouldn't be getting hit by the last move from it.

 

[Shiri]

Yeah, you should be eating two hits from neutral on average.

 

[Sharky]

this is one of my weak points ;_;

which way do you guys SDI on your average nair?

 

[Airborne]

this is one of my weak points ;_;

which way do you guys SDI on your average nair?

i'm pretty sure it's just opposite of their momentum... i'm terribad at SDIing nair T___T

 

[Silent Beast]

Airborne Reborn: answers to post 51?

 

[Airborne]

At max range?
Utilt might not be possible to grab at max range, but if not well spaced, it's a definite punish. Ftilt on the other hand, has him lunging forward, so I believe that we actually can grab him at max range.



Follow up with what? How much time do we have?
I don't have the frame data on it, but I'm pretty sure we have frame advantage on it, since we're just in the "Oh, I'm not in a grab anymore!", while he's like "ZOMG I'M IN HITSTUN HOW DOES THIS WORK!?!!?!?" We'll be able to at least jab, but I managed to fsmash Infern out of it, since it caught him by surprise. XD

Sorry, was going to try and test, but haven't gotten around to it since finals is happening for me this week. I can't obtain frame data for frame advantage on block for the shield grabs, but I'm pretty sure I would've been punished for it, had it not been doable.

I think I might have actually changed my opinion about the frame advantage thing out of grab.. Here some clips of me breaking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1LtyBiwt3s#t=4m54s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SR7WNURMAw&#t=37s

As you can see, it caught him by surprise, which is what I'm going for primarily.

Edit: this message has been produced from about an hour and a half of looking up stuff and thinking, while reading the mk discussion thread. XD

 

[Shiri]

Neutral air DI is up and behind them if they're moving forward.

Up and away if they're falling back and trying to suck you into it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Does uair di work in this situation also or no

 

[Silent Beast]

Ftilt/utilt

...

I think I might have actually changed my opinion about the frame advantage thing out of grab.. Here some clips of me breaking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1LtyBiwt3s#t=4m54s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SR7WNURMAw&#t=37s

As you can see, it caught him by surprise, which is what I'm going for primarily.

That's useful to know regarding ftilt. With regards to the grab break out, it looks like he started to dash in the 2nd vid, which apparently takes 15 frames before the first step according to the Snake frame data thread, compared to Yoshi's 14-frame fsmash. Obviously, neither of you reacted immediately, but I'm skeptical about the existence of a frame advantage. MAYBE jab could get out in time. Obviously, the preceding analysis is extremely unscientific, and actual frame testing would be needed. (edit: unless it's already known that if a move knocks characters out of a grab, that both characters suffer set amounts of stun)

Edit: this message has been produced from about an hour and a half of looking up stuff and thinking, while reading the mk discussion thread. XD

Totally done something similar to that before.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Snake wins due to his box gimp

 

[Airborne]

That's useful to know regarding ftilt. With regards to the grab break out, it looks like he started to dash in the 2nd vid, which apparently takes 15 frames before the first step according to the Snake frame data thread, compared to Yoshi's 14-frame fsmash. Obviously, neither of you reacted immediately, but I'm skeptical about the existence of a frame advantage. MAYBE jab could get out in time. Obviously, the preceding analysis is extremely unscientific, and actual frame testing would be needed. (edit: unless it's already known that if a move knocks characters out of a grab, that both characters suffer set amounts of stun)



Totally done something similar to that before.

I think the best thing to do about figuring it out is to find out how many frames of hit stun snake suffers, as well as seeing how long it takes for him to land. Compare this to how long it takes Yoshi to regain control after a Grab Release or Ground break, and we might reach a conclusion.

Edit: I believe it's actually the normal amount of frames it takes Yoshi to break out of a ground release.

 

[MX778]

The thing about fighting Snake is that you can juggle him with the ftilt multiple times. He CAN DI upward out of it though. So, if he does that just put up your shield and wait for the falling B-air and then you can sheild grab him.

I usually camp Snake REALLY hard and pivot grab his Mortar Slide. (I'm far enough away from him where it becomes obvious when he'll use it.

Air, you can't sheild grab the Utilt if it's properly spaced. If you try to sheild grab his utilt, you'll eat a F-tilt to the face indefinitely. However, when you DO manage to grab him, do NOT bite him. Everytime I do, I always wind up blowing up from this grenade that he pulls out at the last second. >.>

 

[Delta-cod]

Actually, we might be able to shield grab his utilt if we Shield SDI. I'm not too sure, though.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I hate how when he gets that random nade out and it screws up what you were about to do... Stupid top tiers with their perks and options lol

 

[Deleted member]

Snake is so easy though, idk how people lose to him

I vow to never lose to a snake again. Ever.

 

[SOVAman]

Snake is so easy though, idk how people lose to him

I vow to never lose to a snake again. Ever.

MM my snake

 

[Z'zgashi]

I will say hes easier then most of the other top tiers, but still difficult imo

 

[Deleted member]

No hes easier than like every character because he cant move at all xD

Fact.
Case closed

 

[Delta-cod]

No hes easier than like every character because he cant move at all xD

Fact.
Case closed

This. Undeniably.

 

[Deleted member]

Im half joking, but he really cant. He cant take advantage of yoshis blind spots, so he can only win by doing his normal ****, which yoshi can beat fine.

Thats why i feel MK destroys yoshi, he just has all the options in all the spots yoshi doesnt like it (;D innuendo lolz). Snake doesnt, he just has foward tilt, and he cant run or be in the air at all, plus he gets frame trapped in the butt.

 

[bigman40]

Snake is just a character that never went through testing. His hitboxes and ******** power is pretty much all he's got, and his flaws make him easier to handle than MK or Falco since Snake's priority is to just completely stay on the ground.