Yoshi v. Ice Climbers

[Shiri]

This is the thread for discussion on the Yoshi v. Ice Climbers matchup.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

in short, dont get grabbed, and yoshi is one of the few who can pull this off...sorta

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

Also don't grab yourself. But then again, most Yoshi players know that.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i'd say probably yoshi's favor just because eggs can really mess with nana. there's always the usual "don't get grabbed" but i agree that yoshi can pull this off pretty well.

maybe 60:40? 55:45?

 

[Metatitan]

from what ive heard its 40:60-45:55 with the cgs and 55:45 yoshi without. idk too much about this matchup tho, i usually go puff because its easier to be in the air

 

[Gindler]

Oh look, ICs are shielding so they can grab my Bair....DJC egg lay, nana also can't avoid Bair walls and popos to slow to keep up with yoshi. I have an easy time but it's not rare I'll lose a stock from getting grabbed (lol, it's bound to happen)

 

[Metatitan]

egg lay on the ice climbers? thats begging for a punish thats like grabbing them

 

[Gindler]

It works for me, and separates them (since they usually can't both sidestep at once). True i've been punished for it before but more often than not they get separated.

 

[Metatitan]

ur gonna eat a f smash d smash or usmash tho and in all honesty i dont see the 7% from egg lay as it being worth it

 

[Shiri]

Uh...

Grabbing Ice Climbers actually works with Yoshi. o_0

You guys should try it sometime, I'm not even joking. >_>

You grab and one of two things happens.

1] You grab Popo, down throw to lift Yoshi off of the ground for any Nana retaliation, and then capitalize on the separation as you like (preferably taking advantage of Nana).

2] You grab Nana, down throw to lift Yoshi off of the ground or back throw for further separation, and then carry Popo as far away from Nana as you can with dash attacks, down tilts, and short neutral airs.

Egg Lay is amazing for separation and serves as faster standing grab if your pivots are too slow and you don't have the correct dash grab spacing.

The grab order probably goes like this: Dash grab > Egg Lay > Pivot grab > Standing grab.

Grabs work for Yoshi in this matchup. I promise.

 

[Poltergust]

B-air is like the perfect move to seperate them. As long as you space properly, they can't punish you for it, so it is a very safe move to use. Once you get them seperated, concentrate ALL of your firepower to Nana. I'd recommend spiking her whenever you get the chance.

Once she is KOed, Popo should be easy to deal with (sans the d-throw chain-grab).

 

[Gindler]

ur gonna eat a f smash d smash or usmash tho and in all honesty i dont see the 7% from egg lay as it being worth it

I only use it for separation purposes, not as a damage racker (egg lay is a horrible damage racker) and if I do get grabbed one of the ICs are in an egg so I'm not dead (yay!)

Uh...

Grabbing Ice Climbers actually works with Yoshi. o_0

You guys should try it sometime, I'm not even joking. >_>

You grab and one of two things happens.

1] You grab Popo, down throw to lift Yoshi off of the ground for any Nana retaliation, and then capitalize on the separation as you like (preferably taking advantage of Nana).

2] You grab Nana, down throw to lift Yoshi off of the ground or back throw for further separation, and then carry Popo as far away from Nana as you can with dash attacks, down tilts, and short neutral airs.

Egg Lay is amazing for separation and serves as faster standing grab if your pivots are too slow and you don't have the correct dash grab spacing.

The grab order probably goes like this: Dash grab > Egg Lay > Pivot grab > Standing grab.

Grabs work for Yoshi in this matchup. I promise.

It really does, I'm amazed how well grabbing works (due to the fact one will spotdodge slightly faster than the other). I sometimes Bthrow followed by turn around Fsmash though to make a good separation (since most will grab reguardless of what you do even with nana being bthrowed). Then again I've only played 2 "pro" ICs, one actually knew how to fight beyond just grabbing, the others high ranked but only knows grab combos

 

[.Marik]

Bair Bair Bair.

This move seperates the Ice Climbers, which is awesome.

And don't get grabbed. Smash and play as you normally would.

But don't get grabbed.

 

[SYLAR]

Bair Bair Bair.

This move seperates the Ice Climbers, which is awesome.

And don't get grabbed. Smash and play as you normally would.

But don't get grabbed.

Agreed. My first match against an Ice Climber main was brutal... until I figured out that Yoshi's aerial game completely ***** Ice Climbers. Bair and tilt combos are your savior in this match-up.

And don't get grabbed, if you do... you're ****ed...

 

[momochuu]

Pretty boring matchup. It's 55-45 in Yoshi's favor.

 

[SOVAman]

This is fun till I verse meep

 

[Deleted member]

*sigh*
Yoshi doesnt beat ice climbers. The Ice climbers DO NOT just stick to the ground. They only do so if they think they can get a grab.
Yoshi cannot beat blizzard. Fact. Full hop bair to turnaround blizzard from ICs will pressure yoshi while being relatively safe. ONE POWERSHIELD=1 stock! Do you understand that? Even a not perfectly spaced tilt will get grabbed. Desynchs arent too effective against yoshi cuz of eggs but if they desynch blizzards, yoshi is gonna have to go to the ledge.

40-60 imo.

 

[Poltergust]

Based on what I've seen, I really do think that Yoshi is advantaged in this match-up. However, until I play against them offline I won't comment on this any more than what I've already have.

 

[Yosheon]

Retreating egg lays, b-air, and eggs should be your best friends in this match.

 

[pwiito]

I need to more info about this matchup, i got, this matchup is extremly hard for me, pls someone post something, I've tried everything

 

[Delta-cod]

This is a run for your life match up. Get grabbed and die. don't be afraid to eat ice blocks or blizzards as long as they don't get you grabbed. Basically, you want to camp. Hard. So you need to know how to deal with the ICs approaches or counter camps.

Ice blocks - You can try to SH Egg. Generally, since you'll be playing a platformed stage, I'd stay on a platform. Completely nullifies this.

Desynced blizzards - Egg if they're not too close. If they're close, run.

Running/walking in - Run or bair wall them. Just stay out of their grab range.

When you get it down to the single climber, take your time. You want to draw out this life as much as possible. Don't try hard for the kill, just camp. The more time you take while avoiding damage or death, the better.

Also know that the ICs are pretty solid without their CG. Their Uair is a major pain, you can't beat it out, so you'll need to dodge through it.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

I lost to an ICs in tourny yesterday, not fun at all

I didn't get wrecked but CGs sure are a pain

 

[Delta-cod]

I like to run, but being forced to run sucks.

 

[Poltergust]

I lost to an ICs in tourny yesterday, not fun at all

I didn't get wrecked but CGs sure are a pain

You played against Snipa, D-Torr? He has yet to beat me, so here are some tips for him:

-Be sure to use pivot-grabs to quickly seperate them. Yoshi throws fast enough to not get hit by whoever is left over.
-Snipa has a really hard time dealing with ECE. Make sure you edge-camp a lot.
-If you must, use b-air as an approach and n-air when you are behind them. If it doesn't poke their shields, then you would at least be safe from the push back of n-air.
-Egg Lay works very well if you use it wisely. Just be sure to space it correctly.
-He's pretty easy to edge-guard, actually. D-air works well for low recoveries, and if he recovers high (most likely using Squall Hammer) then f-smash, u-smash, or pivot-grab can do the job.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Thanks for the tips, Polt.

 

[Poltergust]

You're welcome.

Oh, one more thing. Counterpick Halberd or RC (whichever one he doesn't ban).

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

He banned RC, and I went to Halberd for my CP LOL

 

[Poltergust]

Uh... I don't know, then. It worked for me yesterday. XD

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

it's just my lack of MU exp

I started playing better later on in the set and on my CP Halberd but no johns Snipa beat me

 

[Oh.]

I think the match is definitely in IC favor

The fact that IC have a 0 to death should give them an advantage since yoshi doesn't have anything special to use in this matchup

However I do think that Yoshi can be one of the better characters at separating ICs. I think the only way to win against a good IC player is to separate them as soon as you have an opening and then not mess up and gimp nana...1v1 against a Popo is a lot easier obviously

I think the mindset you have to go in with this matchup is: 1 grab=1 stock. However it's fairly tough not to get grabbed at all during a match...especially cause it seems like ICs can stand back and do their shenanigans and not necessarily have to approach to win, while yoshi pretty much has to approach

The only IC I've played is GIMR (hobbling cg), I haven't ever played Meep (0 to death cg)

 

[Delta-cod]

The best way to beat the ICs is to draw out single climber's life. I think timing them out is the way to go, since it's too risky to be aggressive when there are two of them. However, if you continue to camp hard vs. Single Climber, he'll just eventually die, but hopefully you've been able to run the clock enough to keep a good lead.

Playing gay is the only way to beat the ICs. =/

 

[MX778]

You're right. We can't be aggressive, but we have to seperate them somehow.
Camping will work on the Ice Climbers, but it won't take long for those ice blocks catch up to you.

They nearly make any approaches we make useless with that desynced Blizzard.
Egg lay here works wonders. ^___^
U-throw is a pretty reliable move to seperate the Ice Climbers, but you have to do it RIGHT WHEN YOU GRAB ONE OF THEM, or you're screwed.

B-air works as well, but only if you space it well enough.

 

[Shiri]

I like to down throw if I catch Ice Climbers while they're in motion.

Nana usually skids to a stop or short hops when Popo is grabbed, so that gives me enough time to down throw. Anybody I've talked to knows how much I hate this throw in Brawl, but it's good here because when Popo slams into the ground, Nana will get hit, too, if she's nearby, making it really hard for her to counter attack you while you're getting rid of Popo.

 

[Delta-cod]

Also, if you dthrow, you're put into the air a bit, so you can possibly avoid a counterattack with it as well.

 

[Airborne]

i heard something about us not being able to be punished or grabbed or something when we dthrow, is this true? o.O

edit: also, i prefer eggs and egglays for this MU especially, since they do very well at separating. =)

 

[Deleted member]

I 2-0d typh in pools at wintergames fest, he went ICs first match (he is ranked in socal with ICs), you just gotta be really ledge campy, really really really grabby while they are in the air, and not fast fall back airs. Mix up ur stuff, its ok if they get an up air on you as long as you dont let them followup, or get a ground.

I also learned something general about fighting Ics:
At low percents, you should not get Cged ever. Mash mash mash you gotta get really good at mashing so you can break out almost instantly. This can save you early, and let you play a little more agressive at 0-25/30 to get an early lead.
After 50, just wait.
If they Cg you to 130-150, and then just usmash, you cant get out, but if they try to charge an usmash at 100-ish, MASH FOR YOUR LIFE. You can mash out while they charge it.

 

[.Marik]

I 2-0d typh in pools at wintergames fest, he went ICs first match (he is ranked in socal with ICs), you just gotta be really ledge campy, really really really grabby while they are in the air, and not fast fall back airs. Mix up ur stuff, its ok if they get an up air on you as long as you dont let them followup, or get a ground.

Clarify? Do you mean planking, or ledgeguarding them?

Also, very solid advice. Best I've heard for the Ice Climbers matchup. So far.

 

[Airborne]

I think he means that we have to play around the ledge and run to it when we are being cornered.

...You know, ICs are probably just going to Ice Block, Blizzard, or shield at the edge. If we can bait a shield, we might be able to drop down to DJC egglay, and sepearate them well enough to either potentially gimp popo or kill nana off... just a thought though.

I think we should work with our air game more for this MU, because our air grabs easily desynch them, setting up for some intense separation, and there's nothing great that can punish a perfectly spaced, retreating egglay.

 

[.Marik]

I think he means that we have to play around the ledge and run to it when we are being cornered.

So that does cover Yoshi eventually resorting to planking and ledgeguarding tactics then?

It's awfully easy to gimp Ice Climbers, I've beaten Jaske and almost Sauc3 this way.

I'd play around the edge and camp, ChainGrabs literally destroy our ground game. Since Yoshi is a heavyweight, I've been fucking Hobbled to Kingdom Come and back.

But that mashing advice sounds legit due to the frame imput limitations and Yoshi's bizarre jumping animation.

...You know, ICs are probably just going to Ice Block, Blizzard, or shield at the edge. If we can bait a shield, we might be able to drop down to DJC egglay, and sepearate them well enough to either potentially gimp popo or kill nana off... just a thought though.

Pretty much. It's hard -getting- them off the ground, because we have to approach, and we really have nothing besides Bair and Pivot Grabbing.

I think we should work with our air game more for this MU, because our air grabs easily desynch them, setting up for some intense separation, and there's nothing great that can punish a perfectly spaced, retreating egglay.

I'm good at this matchup, but then I'm not good at this matchup.

I'm curious to hear more, though.

 

[typh]

**** eggs

**** THEM SO MUCH