Yoshi: A New Breed

[Fingerp@ss]

Any AT should be available to all users. Whether they want to learn, master, or make use of it is up to them. If anyone complains about it then they're actually worse off or shouldn't be caring at all. I know a while back I used to complain about "new" ATs found but I figured there is no point on trying to prove something wrong or trying to tell someone how or not how to play Yoshi. ATs can only improve Yoshi's gameplay but it depends on the player and their playstyle. But even with the number (there arent too many) of ATs available for Yoshi, simple or difficult, he is still limited (very limited).

Yoshi is not very tournament viable. I dont like to admit that cause there are very good Yoshi mains out there and only a few that place somewhat well in tournaments. Much like other lower tier mains, there are only a few that take their character to a level and it all depends on the player. To me Yoshi is not really about ATs but it doesn't mean you can't use them to your advantage.

Any and all ATs should be available to the community so that other players can make use of them and incorporate them into their own game play and possibly give others different ideas.

I've been maining Yoshi for over a year now and I hardly post in the Yoshi boards. One reason is that again I dont like telling people how to play and believe that everyone should develope their own way/style. Another is over half the topics/threads here are about ATs which I dont concentrate to hard on. I DONT take this game seriously and my playstyle is very unique that other Yoshi players may or maynot agree with. But I'm willing to help another player out if asked and hopefully give the best and most in depth advice for them.

Bwett is right, the metagame will not evolve anytime soon if ever. Thats just the way this game is as a whole. There cant be an uprising of NEW Yoshi players/styles cause everyone will have their own opinion and would want to play their own way.

 

[thekingsdinner666]

K guy, I guess I'll let out a few techniques.

1. Yoshi has a VERY high priority air dodge jump.
2. He does have a Boost Smash, but it's hard to do.
3. His dair has a much higher priority with a full hop that a short hop.
4. Don't use his side-B to recover.
5. His grab to grab to grab combo is best used on neutral stages but even in general isn't a very high priority combo and is easily escapable.
6. He CAN jump under FD with only 2 eggs. (lol)
7. His down-b isn't normally expected because it's surprisingly not used much, which means means you can use it at the right time. I'm NOT incouraging people to spam it.
8. Yoshi's down taunt can be shortened with a d-smash.

That's all I gawt.

 

[Chaco]

All I can say is wow.

TKD for YBR. Lolol.

 

[thekingsdinner666]

All I can say is wow.

TKD for YBR. Lolol.

I'm using Yoshi right now. (prays to find techniques omg)

 

[DiscoShark]

Look bro, can we plz get over this fight? And I didn't say anything about glory. NEway, I posted TL glitch on General Brawl.

Out of curiosity I decided to check that thread. Your "major Toon Link uber-arrow glitch" is called a Reverse Quickdraw (basically an arrow lag cancelled B-reversal) The B-Reversal aspect of it, who's process you described with these words "A backwards Neutral-B is when you use B and then quickly press the opposite direction of the way you're facing" is something every single character can do, including Yoshi. The general smash community has known about it for...months (and you don't need to do the neutral air before hand either). So, moving on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Taking the time to try and pick up the DR whilst your Yoshi's core is fundamentally...lacking... is the equivalent of trying to run before you've learned how to walk. And it is in my personal belief that instead of focusing on "Why are the Yoshi's not taking the time to learn DR, or DT?" we should be focusing on "Why does that Yoshi continue to be punished by the same moves over and over, Why does that Yoshi use the same tired approaches every single time?, Why do I know what that Yoshi is going to do before he even jumps in the air?" It is in those questions that we will find what is fundamentally lacking in the majority of the Yoshi's that pick up the character.

 

[auroreon]

I guess Yoshi's combos are his secret weapon. But you have to attack at the right time.
Maybe being trickey can also help... who knows?

... What?

Yoshi is not very tournament viable. I dont like to admit that cause there are very good Yoshi mains out there and only a few that place somewhat well in tournaments. Much like other lower tier mains, there are only a few that take their character to a level and it all depends on the player. To me Yoshi is not really about ATs but it doesn't mean you can't use them to your advantage.

I believe Yoshi is tournament viable. Call me naive if you will but I am convinced that Yoshi can place well in tournaments if played well enough, none of us have reached that level yet because none of us have put that much work into him. Yes, obviously its going to be an extrememly tall order to beat top high-tier players but I don't think its impossible, we are just required to put more effort in.

I've been maining Yoshi for over a year now and I hardly post in the Yoshi boards. One reason is that again I dont like telling people how to play and believe that everyone should develope their own way/style. Another is over half the topics/threads here are about ATs which I dont concentrate to hard on.

Everyone may have their own style, but everyone can benefit from the advice and discoveries of others. Even if things we learn are rarely ever useful, they are still good to know for that one tournament match where it happens to be just the right situation to use it and it end up winning you the match.

K guy, I guess I'll let out a few techniques.

1. Yoshi has a VERY high priority air dodge jump.
2. He does have a Boost Smash, but it's hard to do.
3. His dair has a much higher priority with a full hop that a short hop.
4. Don't use his side-B to recover.
5. His grab to grab to grab combo is best used on neutral stages but even in general isn't a very high priority combo and is easily escapable.
6. He CAN jump under FD with only 2 eggs. (lol)
7. His down-b isn't normally expected because it's surprisingly not used much, which means means you can use it at the right time. I'm NOT incouraging people to spam it.
8. Yoshi's down taunt can be shortened with a d-smash.

That's all I gawt.

...

I don't mean any offence, but those are not techniques... some of them aren't even true and none of the are at all relevant to anything. If you are serious about maining Yoshi and getting into competetive smash, take the time to look around and get to know the competetive scene, terms we use and how the game is played competetive;y. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I'm just trying to help you along.
No need to be mean to the guy people... sure he may not know much now but he could someday become a great player, we should try to encourage him.

Taking the time to try and pick up the DR whilst your Yoshi's core is fundamentally...lacking... is the equivalent of trying to run before you've learned how to walk. And it is in my personal belief that instead of focusing on "Why are the Yoshi's not taking the time to learn DR, or DT?" we should be focusing on "Why does that Yoshi continue to be punished by the same moves over and over, Why does that Yoshi use the same tired approaches every single time?, Why do I know what that Yoshi is going to do before he even jumps in the air?" It is in those questions that we will find what is fundamentally lacking in the majority of the Yoshi's that pick up the character.

Ok, I was going to post this in the 'Basics of Yoshi' thread, but since I'm already here...

People keep making this distinction between technical ability and core ability, as if they are two seperate entities. Well the way I see it, they aren't, and we should stop treating them like they are mutually exclusive. The new Yoshis picking him up now are privilaged, they already have a whole load of little tricks and developments laid out before them before they even start, thus they are able to START building up their Yoshi game with these discoveries already available to them. This means that these little tricks that the more long-time Yoshis have had to work into their game as they were been discovered, are worked straight into the base play of new Yoshis and they are able to take these things for granted.
What everyone seems to forget is there was a time before any of this so called "tech" stuff was widely avaiable, and it was only discovered through experimentation and open-mindedness.
So telling new Yoshis to ignore "tech" stuff and just work from the same basics that we had when we first started sounds like backwards progression to me.
We need to stop viewing Yoshis games in two seperate catagories of "tech" and "core" and start looking at Yoshi as a whole.
I urge new Yoshis to make use of what we already know and work it into your play as soon as possible, it will make things a lot easier in the long run. Think about it... someone picking up Yoshi from the release of the game with nothing known would develop a playstyle around what is avaiable to them, and when a situation arises they will find the best course of action from what they know. Now imagine you could pick up Yoshi with all the extra stuff we have learned... in the same situation you now have more options open to you and so could have a better option available to you.

Well thats my take on things, so take it as you will... heres hoping we can start trying to get out of this slump we apparently seem to be in.

 

[nicalobe]

Alright, I'll admit it Chaco. You lit a fire under my ***. I spent about 4 hours last night, avoiding writing finals papers, to get my DR into better shape. Well sir (or ma'am?), I've finally been becoming more and more consistent with the god-forsaken thing, and I'm really liking the results.
Being able to actually use it in a match is like finally getting that 120th star in Mario 64, it feels awesome.
Working on better uses for it now, hopefully I'll be able to nail it by my next tournament.
Sorry about being a little brash in my first post, but I was a little tired and my first thought was "Oi, ANOTHER post about DR being better than Jesus and Allah put together."

 

[Chaco]

Hahaha, told you.

And glad my fire worked.

 

[thekingsdinner666]

I've done over 17,000 Brawls. I don't think I need help thnx though. @ Auroreon

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

I've done over 17,000 Brawls. I don't think I need help thnx though. @ Auroreon

That's a great attitude you have there.

Spoiler

If you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

In my opinion Yoshi is tournament viable =) I like to think I have a good eye for under-rated characters. The moment I picked Peach up, even when everyone said she sucked I knew she was a good character and I could place high with her in tournaments. If there are 2-3 Yoshi players out there that place well, it means the character has the potential for it. Yoshi just has a very high learning curve, it doesn't mean his potential is low.

 

[SOVAman]

Look bro, can we plz get over this fight? And I didn't say anything about glory. NEway, I posted TL glitch on General Brawl.

Your thread got locked xD

 

[thekingsdinner666]

Your thread got locked xD

I know! It really sucks, huh? Thanks for your sympathy .

 

[Depster]

I know! It really sucks, huh? Thanks for your sympathy .

Go troll the link boards or something, but not here


I need to get some videos up so that I know for sure how my core play is.

Chaco will you add me on AIM and show me how to do the ledge waveland and maybe a couple other things you know but haven't talked about?

 

[thekingsdinner666]

Go troll the link boards or something, but not here


I need to get some videos up so that I know for sure how my core play is.

Chaco will you add me on AIM and show me how to do the ledge waveland and maybe a couple other things you know but haven't talked about?

Trolling is the desire to start a fight.
My bad though.