Writing Gooder

[Jam Stunna]

Brainstorming

I was talking to a forum goer here that wanted to enter the last WWYP contest, but he was afraid that he couldn't come up with a story. I told him that the easiest way to write (and also one of the best ways to write) is to fictionalize an event that occurred to him. That way, the story automatically rings with authenticity, and it's not necessary to map out every single detail in your imagination.

I think that alot of writers forget this, and the saying is 100% true: truth is stranger than fiction. So if you have a funny, sad, romantic or any other kind of story, write it down, change some names and put it out there!

This website offers some ideas about real-life inspiration for your creative (and expository) writing:

http://www.gse.buffalo.edu/org/writingstrategies/Toolbox/Brainstorming_Toolkit.html

 

[Jam Stunna]

Bumped from the abyss! I was going to repost this entire thread, but thankfully I won't have to.

Any new writers around here, please read through this thread. There's a lot of goos stuff here.

 

[bob-charley]

Good stuff indeed. I never realized how fluffy, that is to say, wordy without really contributing much to the overall idea I'm trying to express, my writing style was until I read through this thread. Now I know why I'm able to fill pages when I write, but never really seem to get anywhere.
Kudos to you, Jam Stunna, and to you as well, Demoncaterpie. Maybe now I'll be able get some work done on my Star Fox fanfic without writing myself into a corner. n_n

 

[Jam Stunna]

I found this site that I think is pretty useful. It has several blogs that cover all kinds of writing:

http://writetodone.com/

 

[El Nino]

I found this site that I think is pretty useful. It has several blogs that cover all kinds of writing:

http://writetodone.com/

1) When did blogging become a profession?
2) Is it just me, or do most of those articles come across like infomercials?
3) Maybe it's intended to be more of a writer's self-help pamphlet?
4) After browsing that site, I realize I have no clue what writing is.
5) I am a cynical b*stard. Sorry.

 

[Jam Stunna]

1) I agree, it's shameful.
2) I noticed that too, but there are some good ones.
3) Maybe? Alot of it is common sense stuff, but I've noticed that's the stuff people always tend to forget.
4) Yeah, it does cover alot of stuff I didn't really think about before.
5) You and me both, brother.

 

[Ominous]

Hehe kool post... a bit long but kool

 

[__Lewis__]

Sorry, Jam Stunna, but the link for styling sentences by Raul seems to have expired. Do you have an update on it, or any other related links?

I love this thread by the way. I've found it so useful in my writing, so thanks very much and let's keep it alive.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I'll try to find some for you. I'm glad that you found this thread useful, and thanks for bumping it!

 

[LordoftheMorning]

This is a nice thread. I've already been helped out by the wordiness section. Being too wordy has always been a weakness in my writing. I've made some good cuts recently.

 

[__Lewis__]

Much-needed bump!

I found this article on the concept of a 3-act structure fairly interesting. Whilst some writers might not want to be 'formulaic', I can't help but feel that one should know the basic rules before defying conventions.

http://www.dvoted.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4468&Itemid=432

 

[Matt]

Did you just ****ing say whilst.

OUT

 

[Crimson King]

Don't be a ****, dude.

 

[OK'Ssuka?]

To Jam Stunna:

The links to "Writing Well" Parts 1, 2, and 3 lead to a "Page Not Found" Page. If you would be so kind, please fix the urls to these links, as I believe these are the intended urls to the Writing Well series of articles by Sirlin:

"Writing Well, Part 1: Sensibilities"
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/writing-well-part-1-sensibilities.html

"Writing Well, Part 2: Clear Thinking, Clear Writing"
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/writing-well-part-2-clear-thinking-clear-writing.html

"Writing Well, Part 3: Origins of a Writer"
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/writing-well-part-3-origins-of-a-writer.html

Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[Crimson King]

****, I keep forgetting to post the character questions I have. It's a list of about 20 questions to ask your character. Fill that out, and your character will become alive and ready to tell you a story.

Also, I wish the title was "Writing more good," or something equally funny.

 

[Jam Stunna]

****, I keep forgetting to post the character questions I have. It's a list of about 20 questions to ask your character. Fill that out, and your character will become alive and ready to tell you a story.

Also, I wish the title was "Writing more good," or something equally funny.

Thy will be done!

 

[Thunda-Moo]

Huff... Huff... It took me half an hour to read through all four pages of this amazingly useful board. Is it weird to read every post like I did...?

Anyway, I'm relitivly new to smashboards and I can't spell worth crap without Microsoft Word on my side, but I've been writing for a while now and reading too much to be healthy since forever, so I think it's high-time this board gets my two cents on Figureitive Language, oooh!

Figuritive Language (FL from now on because I'm lazy) is something that many new writers ignore, especially when writing fanfics for whatever reason. You all probably have a general idea on what FL is, metaphors, similies, personification, etcetera. But many people don't realize how much it adds to your peice.

Essentially, FL is the difference between a boring description and an interesting one. Yeah, it's that important. Sure, it's possible to make fun and interesting descriptions without figuritive language, but it's harder and you won't get any kudos for doing so. Which would you rather read: "The cat lazily opened his eye." or "The cat's eyelid retreated slower then an eroding mountain."

Now, I'll admit the figuritive language example was somewhat forced in order to show both personification and metophor (I'm pretty sure it's a metophor and not a similie, but it doesn't much matter) but hopefully you can see the differenceof awesome between the two descriptions. There was nothing wrong with the first, quite the contrary, it's just that the second, more figuritive-y one was better.

You should not use figuritive language for everything! That makes a peice reeealy annoying to read and makes the peice too wordy. Combine normal descriptions and figuritive descriptions. The ratio between them depends on what type of peice you are doing and what you want it to be like.

Finnaly, read the Discworld novels by Terry Pratchett. They're awesome to the max and they clearly explain what I'm talking about.

 

[Crimson King]

One of the best examples of solid writing in Figurative Language is Koji Suzuki's Ring, which is the basis of the J-Horror and K-Horror classics, "Ringu" and "Ring," respectively. His lack of adjectives/adverbs is adeptly replaced with similies and metaphors that were so visually amazing that I read some passages twice.

I remember best his description of a building that with its pipes, it looked like veins below the skin. That is almost a direct quote, and I remember seeing this perfectly. He is a great horror writer and is Japan's Stephan King.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

Yay! Better examples than I could give!

Yeah, even if I can't explain why very well, figuritive language is incredible.

 

[Crimson King]

Surprised I didn't post this here, but this is seriously the best advice to writing clearer:

One of my best advisers at school was a novelist named Albert Davis. He wrote two books some time ago, and both books are well-received in the academic world, and he has been compared to William Falkner. His two books are Leechtime and Marquis at Bay, if you are brave enough for it.

Since I wanted to write a novel, I went to him. We would riff for an hour on the notion of writing, the concept, he would comfort me as being a great writer, loaded with potential for publishers, and I would comfort him with being a great teacher. He gave me what is, by far, the best advice ever.

When you write anything, imagine you are explaining a movie to a blind man. That slammed into me like a ton of a bricks. When we write a scene in a room, we don't write everything, just what we would notice when we entered the room. Then, he said, "So you are telling the blind man that the thug walked heavily. The blind man would ask, 'how do you know?' and you'd reply, 'when he walks it looks like he is stomping a village (I added that one in),' or something like that. So, heavily, an adverb, has no weight. It's just a filler, but when you say the thug walked like something, you characterize it."

This advice really shaped me to notice adjectives and adverbs as weak words. Compare the two:

"Carlyle screamed at Monica, angrily."
-vs-
"Carlyle screamed at Monica as if she destroyed his priceless collection of comic books."

The first we can kind of imagine it. Angry, however, will mean something different to everyone. When I think angry, I think when I got into trouble with my parents as a kid. They rarely yelled, but they were always disappointed. However, in this scene, that doesn't work. So, I need to clarify his degree of anger. Also, that second example leads perfectly to a follow up sentence describing Carlyle's actions such as stomping around the room, like he was trying to put a fire out and ringing his hands like he was washing clothes or something to expand upon that image.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

Listen to this Crimson King, ladies and gentlemen, for good advice comes from his keyboard. As CK can obviously explain that topic better then I can, I'm forced to change topics entirely. To me.

My two biggest problems as a writer are rushing things and modivation.

It's difficult for me to muster up the modication to write. It's not writer's block; once I sit down and get going the didgital paper flies. But even if I want to, it's difficult for me to get to the sitting down part. Then once I do, I'm too depressed at my self-preceived lack of talent to actually write the favorite story I came up with, in fear that I "can't do it justice." Is there any help you can give me besides "suck it up and write, you wuss?" That doesn't work well.

When I do get around to writing, I think of my stories in chunks, so I rush through the connections between these chunks in order to get to the parts I really want to write, which makes this "filler" just that: uninteresting filler. How am I supposed to make a part I don't like writing into something other people like reading? (Woah, that first sentance in the last paragraph is crazy long! I guess that's part of my writing style.)

 

[Jam Stunna]

Listen to this Crimson King, ladies and gentlemen, for good advice comes from his keyboard. As CK can obviously explain that topic better then I can, I'm forced to change topics entirely. To me.

My two biggest problems as a writer are rushing things and modivation.

It's difficult for me to muster up the modication to write. It's not writer's block; once I sit down and get going the didgital paper flies. But even if I want to, it's difficult for me to get to the sitting down part. Then once I do, I'm too depressed at my self-preceived lack of talent to actually write the favorite story I came up with, in fear that I "can't do it justice." Is there any help you can give me besides "suck it up and write, you wuss?" That doesn't work well.

When I do get around to writing, I think of my stories in chunks, so I rush through the connections between these chunks in order to get to the parts I really want to write, which makes this "filler" just that: uninteresting filler. How am I supposed to make a part I don't like writing into something other people like reading? (Woah, that first sentance in the last paragraph is crazy long! I guess that's part of my writing style.)

Unfortunately, the only advice really is, "Suck it up wuss". On both counts.

You have to look at writing as a job, because that's really what it is. Compare it to basketball: before you can make that game-winning shot, you have to shoot 1,000 jumpers a day. I'm pretty sure that's no fun, but that's what it takes to be the best.

The same with writing. You have to take the time to write those boring parts in order to get to the good stuff. If the boring parts suck, then no one's going to read your story long enough to get to the good stuff. Also try to get away from waiting for inspiration. Once again, you don't do your job because you're inspired. Force yourself to sit down, every day, and write something. 100 words or 1,000, you have to do it every day.

 

[Crimson King]

My weaknesses are dialogue, characters, and description of scenes. Due to my dedication at being concise and clear, I end up lacking in the above areas because that is where you break the writing norms. I can describe or create a character, but I can't use them.

My strength is in premises, story ideas, and my closing line. My worst criticisms have always said "you have memorable closing lines." One of my writing teachers always loved to read my stuff for this reason and praised me, but I wanted more.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

Unfortunately, the only advice really is, "Suck it up wuss". On both counts.

You have to look at writing as a job, because that's really what it is. Compare it to basketball: before you can make that game-winning shot, you have to shoot 1,000 jumpers a day. I'm pretty sure that's no fun, but that's what it takes to be the best.

The same with writing. You have to take the time to write those boring parts in order to get to the good stuff. If the boring parts suck, then no one's going to read your story long enough to get to the good stuff. Also try to get away from waiting for inspiration. Once again, you don't do your job because you're inspired. Force yourself to sit down, every day, and write something. 100 words or 1,000, you have to do it every day.

Wahaha! I can't honesty say I expected more advice, but if nothing else it's nice to hear from an expert on the matter. Making daily goals, though... I'm ashamed for not thinking of it myself.

To Crimson King: Characters and diolouge have always been my innate strengths, so I have little experience or advice on improving them. As for scene description, you gave the best advice to yourself: discribe it to a blind man.
Despite this, I will endeavour to be a help. You say you can discribe or create a character but not use them. Unfortunatly, if you can't use them then you probably can't discribe them very well! I don't mean that unkindly, but if you don't know what a character would say or do in a situation you should sit down and re-think them.
For diolouge specificly, go back to the character and think:
How are they going to speak? What is their vernacular? What is their current emotional state? How much do they like the person they are talking to, etc?
What will they say? An insult? A suggestion? A short rant?

The biggest thing to make belevable diolouge is vernacular. Now, it may be hard to take me seriously because I have no idea how to spell "vernacular," but hear me out. Vernacular is how a character speaks, what words they say, slang and otherwise, the general speaking style. It can be subtle (the word "silly" is said instead of the more common "rediculous") or obvious ("Yo dawg, wazzup?") but vernacular makes a difference. A big problem I see is making two or three main characters with the same vernacular or using the author's vernacular too frequently.

I hope that helps at all.

 

[Crimson King]

Here's a good question:

I have many ideas floating in my head, and I have a ton of stories to edit, but one project (it's a novel length project) is done in rough draft and needs to be edited. I should finish this project as soon as I can, but I keep getting ideas for other stories. Should I write these stories, neglecting my novel, or finish the editing process, and write down these ideas in a place for safe keeping?

Currently, I have a small, green flip notebook where I write ideas out. It's done purely for brainstorming ideas/ideas for later, but I am not sure if this is a good move. Thoughts?

 

[tmw_redcell]

I say finish your current project first. Having a lot of stories on the go can just act as an excuse to not finish any of them, at least it works that way for me.

As for carrying a small notebook around I also think it's a good idea, I've forgotten a lot of good ideas/images/lines for the lack of a notebook. And it's the smart way to do writing on the go. A trap a lot of writers fall into is writing a lot of dear-diary stream-of-conciousness dreck and say they're 'refining their craft' when they're just training themselves to write sloppily.

 

[Virgilijus]

I say finish your current project first. Having a lot of stories on the go can just act as an excuse to not finish any of them, at least it works that way for me.

I completely agree with this.

 

[Crimson King]

Done and done. Save for a few technical writing pieces that, hopefully, will be freelance, I'll focus solely on editing, revising, and rewriting my big project. Thanks.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

Okay, another question from me that's probably just as silly as my last one. I have a billion story ideas, so how am I supposed to decide which ones to actually write and in what order? I like them all pretty evenly, and it's an impossibly tough choice.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Write them in the order you like them. You have to have a favorite. Write that one, then write your new favorite, and so on.

 

[Crimson King]

Exactly, out of all my ideas, one idea stuck out as the best to me. From there, I began to create relationships, plot, etc. and that idea became the easiest to write. Whatever idea you can go on and on about is the idea to write about first.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

But I just said I don't have a...

Okay, forget it. Eeny meeny miny moe...

By the way, I've posted two stories here (one just now) and while I've gotten positive responses, I have yet to get critisisum, which is what I need and want. One is a fanfic that I'm not planning on writing more of unless people keep bugging me, but the other that I just posted is a finished short story that's 100% original. The people here on the Writing Gooder page seemto be critisisum-capable, so I'd be much obliged to receive some. Anything and everything is helpful.

 

[Crimson King]

I don't read fanfics, but I'll critique the other. I'll get you something good up, soon enough.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

I have a bit of a problem. I don't see it as a problem, it's more like a different way of doing things.

I'm writting a series of what's best described as fanfics. I think I have a pretty intriguing story. I even VERY briefly considered trying to get it published somewhere. I know how risky that is, but what's a life lived without taking chances, right? Anyway, I want to post pieces of it here, but I need my laptop so I can just copy and paste. That's not the problem, though. See, my writing is very....informal. Not just the way people in-story speak, but the way it's formatted. That's not the right word, but I'm not exactly sure how to put it.

Basically, if I were to turn my story in to, say, a college professor, it would be ripped apart before getting to chapter 3. I wish I could show you what I was talking about, but I'll worry about that later.

Now, I didn't pay much attention in English class. I know what a metaphor is, I just don't know how to utilize all those fancy writting techniques. Also, I normally don't describe things in great detail, something I feel as though I absolutely MUST improve on. I guess you can say that my writing style is plain. Unoriginal, even.

What I want to know is should I read up on proper writing format and look for ways to improve? Or, should I just continue writing in the way that feels comfortable to me?

 

[Jam Stunna]

I don't read fanfics, but I'll critique the other. I'll get you something good up, soon enough.

Yeah, I don't read fanfics either, but I'll take a look at the other story.

I have a bit of a problem. I don't see it as a problem, it's more like a different way of doing things.

I'm writting a series of what's best described as fanfics. I think I have a pretty intriguing story. I even VERY briefly considered trying to get it published somewhere. I know how risky that is, but what's a life lived without taking chances, right? Anyway, I want to post pieces of it here, but I need my laptop so I can just copy and paste. That's not the problem, though. See, my writing is very....informal. Not just the way people in-story speak, but the way it's formatted. That's not the right word, but I'm not exactly sure how to put it.

Basically, if I were to turn my story in to, say, a college professor, it would be ripped apart before getting to chapter 3. I wish I could show you what I was talking about, but I'll worry about that later.

Now, I didn't pay much attention in English class. I know what a metaphor is, I just don't know how to utilize all those fancy writting techniques. Also, I normally don't describe things in great detail, something I feel as though I absolutely MUST improve on. I guess you can say that my writing style is plain. Unoriginal, even.

What I want to know is should I read up on proper writing format and look for ways to improve? Or, should I just continue writing in the way that feels comfortable to me?

No publisher anywhere will publish a fanfiction, so don't even waste your time. You could go through a vanity press, but that's not worth the money. Might as well post it online; more people will read it that way and it's free.

As for improving, there's one basic rule (Stephen King calls it the "Prime Rule", and I changed it to Prime Directive since I'm a huge Star Trek nerd): You must read alot, and you must write alot. If you just want to put words on paper, then sure, write whichever way you want. If you actually want others to read your work, you're going to have to practice, and learn from other writers. There are no real fancy techniques, just things you can do to make your writing better and more interesting. Read books, and write alot. You'll see improvement almost immediately.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

I would like to put even more emphasis on "read a lot." Most new writers don't understand the importance of reading in learning to write well. The more you read, the more you become innately aware of grammar useage, puntuation, figurative language, and suchlike. Then, you become able to implement them into your own writing without even thinking about it. Read! Read A LOT!

 

[Crimson King]

I have a bit of a problem. I don't see it as a problem, it's more like a different way of doing things.

I'm writting a series of what's best described as fanfics. I think I have a pretty intriguing story. I even VERY briefly considered trying to get it published somewhere. I know how risky that is, but what's a life lived without taking chances, right? Anyway, I want to post pieces of it here, but I need my laptop so I can just copy and paste. That's not the problem, though. See, my writing is very....informal. Not just the way people in-story speak, but the way it's formatted. That's not the right word, but I'm not exactly sure how to put it.

Basically, if I were to turn my story in to, say, a college professor, it would be ripped apart before getting to chapter 3. I wish I could show you what I was talking about, but I'll worry about that later.

Now, I didn't pay much attention in English class. I know what a metaphor is, I just don't know how to utilize all those fancy writting techniques. Also, I normally don't describe things in great detail, something I feel as though I absolutely MUST improve on. I guess you can say that my writing style is plain. Unoriginal, even.

What I want to know is should I read up on proper writing format and look for ways to improve? Or, should I just continue writing in the way that feels comfortable to me?

Echoing both people before: read more.

There are some authors who have an entire style based on writing out the box do so because they command a superior grammatical knowledge. With my knowledge of how to write, I can critique pretty much anything to multiple ends, and this helps me as both a writer and an editor. The point is, if you are going to write for an audience, which is what people write for, you must write well. View the following websites to get an introduction to the concept:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...=M7r&q=unique+styles+of+writing&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

http://www.virtualsalt.com/rhetoric.htm

http://www.clt.astate.edu/composition/arg, rhet, writ.htm

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/

http://www.advancedlearningprocesses.com/creative_writing_grammar_punctuation.htm

These are just the basics. Read these, then go to your book store in the writing or reference section and buy books on writing well (Stephen King has a good one, and I have another book that is amazing and only 60 pages). Read all that you can on how to write. Another good book is by Strunk and White called Elements of Style. I have a teacher who has published a few books and cites this as his influence.

Finally, on Fanfics: stop writing them. By their nature and title, FanFics are simply just for fans. They do not, inherently, teach good writing techniques because you have established characters already, and most people reading them will know all about them. So you are taking a token character, placing them in a story, and writing a new adventure for them. This exercise is good if you are an established writer, as fans will enjoy your take on a popular character (one of my favorite writers did a story that was eeriely similar to Heath Ledger's Joker, only he wrote his first. The fans of that community loved it. See it here: http://www.repairmanjack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9851). Other times "fanfics" are okay is if you are writing for a job. Most TV shows, and plenty of games will want you to write a proposed story, or spec. script, to show you are capable of coming one with them easily. Say you wanted to work with 2k Studios, famous for Bioshock, and you really want to do Bioshock 3. Well, if you write a spec. script that goes into depth with the characters, you will have a better shot because they won't have to teach you the ropes. These incidences only come from EXPERIENCED writers. You have to hone your chops before trying to get a job writing established material, and you have to know the material quite well.

Also, fanfics, at best, is illegal. Copyright laws will make publishers flee from you like you are nothing.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

Well, if you classify the Fanfic as a parody you can escape copyright infringement due to... what's it called... Creative License? But that's a stupidly long longshot and you'll still never get published, even after you do all this messing around with the characters and worlds to really make it an obvious parody. I wrote one fanfic, but I didn't like it much at all, and it never will get you anywhere. And Crimson King is right in that it encourages bad writing form. Original characters are best. If you're still set on getting your awesome ideas out on other people's characters, you're going to need to get a job for the respective company to get any money out of it, and they won't hire you until you get good at writing "properly." Sorry, but there is no easy way out.

 

[Jam Stunna]

This question is aimed at people who've read On Writing by Stephen King (Virg), but I also wouldn't mind opinions from people who haven't.

In that book, Stephen King suggests that before you start revising your first draft, you let the story sit for a while. He suggests six weeks of down time, but he's referring to a recently completed novel. I just finished a 3,000 word short story. Do you think the same rule applies to that, and if so, how long? Obviously not for six weeks, since it didn't take nearly as long to write the story as it takes to write a novel.

 

[Virgilijus]

I don't think you'd need six weeks. With a novel, you typically pour so much over it for such a long time that it takes a long while to get out of that mindset and look at the draft some what objectively/more of an observer than a writer. With a short story, it shouldn't take 6 weeks. Maybe 2 or less, depending on how easy you can get your mind off of the story.