Wreck-It Bowser

[Z'zgashi]

I meant ledge jump not ledge drop, that was my bad mixing up words there.

 

[Cassius.]

im alive

 

[Hobobloke]

Ditto.

 

[IsmaR]

I'm already a demon.

 

[B!squick]

So I take it Bowser's ledge game is actually good. Can it compete with DK's, though? Also, what kind of ledgedrop nets you an insant Up-B regrab, ledgedrop down or backwards?

Nah, Bower's ledge game is terrible. Unless you can pull off ADs onto the stage into an instant Ftilt upon landing like MrEh, there's not much you can do and even the afore mentioned awesomeness can be easily beaten by any number of things. I mean, what are you going to do? You're the size of a truck. Klaw is nice, but requires the opponent to be very near the ledge as does FAir and NAir and UAir. Fortress only does the big knockback with the first grounded hit. Your options are limited and none of them are very good.

In other news I'm fully engrossed in the Super Bowl of Dota at the moment.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Bowser's ledge game is k, its more that he can get up off the ledge basically for free against anyone, not so much that he can do a lot from it.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

By AD I take it you mean Airdodge to F-Tilt?

 

[Cassius.]

well you can airdodge on the stage to anything. part of the reason why that ledge drop air dodge option blows is because most people just like to wait and react to what you're doing rather than anticipating which blows up the gimmick entirely. if you see bowser motioning for an airdodge you can obviously do a number of things to get him back to the ledge again or kill him. it's not like MK where you can just use invincible UAirs and things like that, and people have gotten with the program (2013) and know not to sit close enough to get hit by a ledge dropped FAir . you can do a number of things like AD to ground klaw/jab/grab/upb/fsmash (this actually works more than it should) back to the ledge again.

his ledge game is alright. you get a get out of jail free card a few times with bowser since he can't be touched if he's at 99% damage or less. his ledge game decreases significantly once you reach 100% damage.

 

[Sodrek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yShT5cIaJfw#t12m26s Best Bowser Ever!

 

[Cassius.]

the meta knight let bowser back onto the stage for free...on top of the fact that chozo did the same ledgehop klaw gimmick every single time.

i'm not sure if they were taking it seriously anymore since he was down two games but even still i'm very surprised that was going unpunished

there are a bunch matches that feature other bowser players that are around that same caliber of "best bowser ever"-ness in one game, but i begin to question it when something glaring just goes untouched in a match. i sound like a **** but whatever

 

[Rizen]

^He played really well (except the Dair habit) but the MK wasn't pressuring him much and acted timid. Beating mediocre opponents looks good but isn't that hard. The screaming commentary is annoying.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

there are a bunch matches that feature other bowser players that are around that same caliber of "best bowser ever"-ness in one game, but i begin to question it when something glaring just goes untouched in a match. i sound like a **** but whatever

Like who? Besides yourself, I mean...

I think that's a pretty good Bowser. That his opponent isn't exploiting Bowser's weakeneses is his own problem, not the Bowser player's...I like his mix-up game- But probably because I'm very linear with my options myself, and he does general basic thigns I don't (I should really start incorporating a better ledge game and more Grab Releases).
Also, IIRC, Heru happens to be one of the better players in Finland. It just really seems the case of lack of MU knowledge.

 

[Cassius.]

there are countless amounts of bowser players who can capture something special in one match in a youtube video

warriorknight did it, gen, chad, ixis, vex, kingkong, flayl, hobobloke, bk, acid, we all have moments in our time periods where we all did some awesome stuff. we all have one video we could point out and say we're proud of how we played. but that's not really the point i was trying to make.

you're right that it's not chozo's problem that heru looked like he didn't know what he was doing. i just have a problem when people say "best bowser ever" when the opponent looks really incompetent in that one game. it's just my own personal gripe.

i came about this the wrong way of course. i'm obviously not knocking chozo's talent, he looks like he had a control of the situation. i was just really skeptical of heru's...play, because it's extremely easy for a bowser player to run circles around someone who looks like they have no clue what's going on. additionally, chozo was down two games, so who knows where his and heru's mental state was at going in that third game.

I also do think there's a certain threshold for bowser where not even a lack of talent can save you, where even if the opponent doesn't know anything about bowser, his general knowledge of the game and his character (being mk) would still at least save him from getting to the last stock, especially if he's finland's better player if that's what he's called (but we can save that for another day because I sound like Ixis now).

I have no idea who he (heru) is, because I honestly can't say I'm too familiar with people who aren't american or canadian lol, so i'm also not really in a position to judge finland's true skill level. i also stopped watching the brawl scene as closely as i used to so i see a lot of new names here and there. i've been too focused into the FGC

basically, chozo looked like he was on point but he also looked like he was playing someone who clearly either wasn't trying or just had no clue what was going on. he was letting chozo get away with murder on the ledge pretty much, for one thing.

 

[Heru]

I kinda underestimated Bowser and I had zero matchup knowledge because I had never played any good Bowser before. Same happened when I played against Ganon in pools, haha (almost lost a match). This was my first OoC tournament and I placed 2nd out of 47 participants. I beat Leon, Tsunayoshi, Akuma, Anoer and quiKsilver (once, lost to him twice in bracket). I'm the best player in Finland but honestly that doesn't mean anything because Finland isn't that good (I haven't lost a tournament in 10 months).

 

[Deleted member 189823]

It should mean something if you've taken such good names (Leon, quiK and Akuma and Anoer, IIRC).
I think characters like Bowser and Ganondorf are hard to fight if you rush in to them.

 

[teluoborg]

Nah, it's just that any character in the game can take advantage of matchup inexperience, especially characters like Ganon who punish heavily and kill early.

If you know what you're doing rushing a character with slow options is actually pretty effective.

 

[Cassius.]

i saw ixis playing on stream the other day

it's good to know that cobwebs are being dusted off.

anyway i'm sure all of the greats will return for smash 4 (and probably even more players aka bowser hype train). let's continue our hibernation, yes?

the next tournament i enter in will probably be something upstate. hopefully i'll use bowser for more than one set lol

 

[B!squick]

If any of you guys decide to pledge at least $45 toward Shroud of the Avatar, totally use me as a referral.

EDIT: Also, when they gonna reveal another dude for the next Smash? :S

 

[Z'zgashi]

Also, when they gonna reveal another dude for the next Smash? :S

What are you talking about, thats the full roster.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

question

What am I supposed to do if MK spaces his aerials in an angle from above? What do I do? I was getting used to MKs poorly spacing F-Air so I could just punish their landing. Some MKs I've played D-Air/N-Air poke me, but I can't Up-B OoS it unless they go too low. I've thought of F-Air'ing them...

 

[Z'zgashi]

Honestly, there isnt much you can do about it at all. Your best best is to either predict that theyre going to do it and short hop fair or klaw.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

What about U-Smash. Just thought of it now...if they're high enough, Bowser's U-Smash has this "ducking" effect that would avoid their spaced attack and hit them back. But then I'd have to sort of stale it, unless they catch up and do something else.
Honestly why is this MU theorically so bad for us...

 

[Z'zgashi]

If MK spaces dair right and jumps with it (like he should) it will beat our usmash outright since it has more range, and even if he misses because of Bowser's duck, he still gets an easy punish of almost anything he wants since usmash is laggy.

And this MU is awful both theoretically and in practice, the only reason a Bowser should be beating an MK is because the Bowser player is straight up a better player. Even with a lack of MU experience, any decently high leveled MK should be able to beat Bowser. Bowser doesnt have anything in this MU that MK cant outright beat or punish and the only way Bowser can do anything at all is if the MK messes up really. Bowser can get a few hits in here or there, and punish a slight miss spaced move with a kill at decent percentages, hence why its not a -4, but its REALLY bad if the MK just does MK things, and even worse if he knows the MU.

 

[Rizen]

And this MU is awful both theoretically and in practice, the only reason a Bowser should be beating an MK is because the Bowser player is straight up a better player.

^

There's not much more to be said

 

[B!squick]

Could try facing away. UTilt becomes a more viable solution and Bowser's big head wont give you grief.

Also, hel-looooooooooooooooooooo again Smash Boards. I find it kinda funny that someone waited until this place was seeing probably the least amount of traffic it's seen in a long time to attack it. New game on the horizon so not much point in doing/saying much about the old game, but nothing to talk about for the new game. *shrug*

Speaking of the new game, we've had one new announced character in the past, what, 2 months? Screen shots seem to confirm Toad will once again not be a playable character, so that's something I guess. Can't say I'm disappointed by this. He's easily the most bland named Mario character who isn't Waluigi.

 

[Rizen]

Toad at his most useful, is Peach's meat shield in Smash Bros.

 

[Z'zgashi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hua_aSzU6PY

 

[Deleted member 189823]

But should I worry about my U-Tilt staling if I use it as an anti-air?

 

[B!squick]

This is Bowser. You shouldn't worry about anything staling.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

LAWL
I like to kill well with Bowser, killing late is unneceptable...unless you're Snake. I can't even kill that thing.

 

[B!squick]

Just learn to SideB. Didn't you see my flowchart?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

You mean Side B out of GR?

 

[B!squick]

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Klaw probably won't kill Snake until liek 180 tho

 

[Cassius.]

that flowchart is beautiful.

 

[MrEh]

Klaw probably won't kill Snake until liek 180 tho

Fsmashes kill everyone.

 

[Rizen]

I have trouble landing Fsmash unless the opponent is not good.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I get fsmashes on everyone, in fact, I consider myself a failure if I come out of a tournament or smashfest with less than 3 connected fsmashes for the day.

 

[B!squick]

I get fsmashes on everyone, in fact, I consider myself a failure if I come out of a tournament or smashfest with less than 3 connected fsmashes for each match.

Fixed

 

[Rizen]

3's not too hard. I guess I'm basing the land-ability against characters with more frequent smash uses. Bowser's less of a smash character than a lot of them.