Worst peach match up?

[Oskurito]

Who would you consider to be her worst match up and why?

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

this thread was just on /r/smashbros

most people would said fox or marth. personally i say marth is ever so slightly more tough, but thats just me. many others say fox is harder. i also think falco is pretty hard despite the even match up.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

sheik b/c you take 30+ damage every time you get grabbed. In every other high tier mu you have an escape, be it DI mixups, mashing nair or SDI. But every other MU is close to 50-50, and peach shiek is probably 60-40 at worst.

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

peach b/c you take 30+ damage every time you get grabbed. In every other high tier mu you have an escape, be it DI mixups, mashing nair or SDI. But every other MU is close to 50-50, and peach shiek is probably 60-40 at worst.

never heard about the guaranteed 30%, is it downthrow to dsmash?

 

[Noble_Of_The_South]

uhhh from my experience it's definitely jiggs. i can't beat a good jiggs to save my life

 

[The Irish Mafia]

never heard about the guaranteed 30%, is it downthrow to dsmash?

no, i'm mostly referring to dthrow ftilt fair and other similar combos. sheik's dthrow dsmash probably doesn't work very well on peach. meanwhile, peaches throws are less rewarding vs sheik than in almost any other matchup. uthrow combos are pretty inconsistent on her.
A lot of people would attest that peaches worst matchup is sheik. I feel it's 50-50 until you're playing someone of Hboxes calibur, where as peach sheik is worse at almost every level of play. & of course I can only speak from my personal experience.

 

[BTmoney]

I think it's puff then marth. marth is a more of in-theory type thing though.

slight disadvantage Fox, Falco, Sheik

 

[.toasty]

Young Link

 

[Sempai]

Well considering armada picked up a new character just for the jiggs matchup, Id say jiggs by far. Peach doesnt have a great punish game against her. Jiggs also has the aerial range, and can pretty much just outmanuver peach in the air.

Peach can combo fastfallers too hard for them to be a bad matchup imo, and a good dsmash grants waaaay too much percent.

Jiggs, then probably young link, then marth, imo.

 

[Armada]

"Can combo fastfallers too hard"
That is a valid point but WAY more complex than you maight think. Does this means DK have a positive MU vs Fox/Falco on FD aswell cause he can get 0- deaths from ONE grab?

A strong punishgame is good but far from everything.

When it comes to MUs this is my experience from playing this game for WAY to long and with Peach.

Puff: No real discussion here. In every area that is important for this MU Puff wins.
- Better range with bair than Peachs best spacing tools
- Better air mobillity/faster which also makes her range even better
- Stronger combo game overall and with a chance to land a rest aswell
- Stronger edgeguard

The only thing Peach really has is that she survives until higher % IF Puff don't rest her. This MU is for sure the worst one and the ammount of misstakes Puff needs to do is absurd to be honest for this MU to even be winnable at all (at world class level). But yeah Peach do have better OOS options but a Puff in shield means at most a grab that connects to nothing.

Fox: For sure the second hardest MU. While Peach can combo the **** out of Fox this MU really is a living hell (even more in NTSC for sure).
Fox out speed her and force her to approach in such a drastic manner that it becomes super hard for her to even touch him.

Im not really feeling for going into detail about this MU AGAIN. Trust me when I say this is for sure the second hardest MU (been saying this for so many years but so few people trust me cause the Fox players overall have no idea of how to play the MU).

Puff is worth to change char for and Fox too if the Fox knows the MU. Of course Peach can beat Fox but you really need to outplay your opponent in order to do so. It's not easy to play the MU as Fox though, but once you really can it is stupid

Rest of the cast is okay for Peach even if she does lose a few more MUs.

 

[knightpraetor]

i think the real reason no one knows whether to believe you is because you play against pal (gimp) sheik all the time. I was just studying your set from a year ago with amsah and if that had been ntsc you would have been 3 stocked.

Even when you're not on point the sheiks can't do anything to you in europe because they can't finish you off at a reasonable percent

anyway, in the US i think a lot of us have more trouble with sheik than with fox, but it's still a tossup in my mind as to which is harder.

I spend a lot of time studying your peach vs fox and while it's true you have to approach the fox if he's dashdance camping you, the frame window for actually punishing peach's whiffs is very small because float/instant jump back out of 4 frames of landing lag is hard for fox to punish with nair.

 

[Magnawolf]

I think it goes like this

1) Puff: Peach can't do anything lol

2) Fox: Laser camping, shine-combos, up-throw uair, etc. Peach's edgeguards/combo game must be on point.

3) Sheik (NTSC): Sheik's grab combos are kind of ridiculous. You pretty much have to not get grabbed which is kinda hard when you pretty much have to stay grounded all the time against Sheik. You cannot beat her in the air.

4) Falcon: Peach's aerial defense is poor in this matchup. Falcon's nair beats or trades with Peach's aerials when she's low floating. Falcon's uair beats her high floats. Falcon combos Peach too hard and has grab to knee. Falcon is easy to edgeguard and combo though.

5) Marth: Pretty much has full priority over your aerial approaches. Stay on the ground, dash attack when Marth is falling from above with a fair or something. Run away and pick up a turnip, it's a free approach. Also, edgeguarding Marth's recovery seems easier because of turnip and how linear Marth's recovery is.

6) Falco: Some people say the matchup is even but I don't think so. I think Marth/Falco is slightly in Falco's favor so there's no way Peach has a better matchup against Falco IMO. Falco's lasers are hard to deal with. Falco combo's Peach so well. The neutral game is dominated by Falco. You pretty much have to punish Falco super hard on and off stage. This matchup is very similar to Marth/Falco but Marth has a better punish game against Falco.

Falcon/Marth/Falco are not in any particular order.

Peach pretty much has an advantage over the rest of the cast. One of the reasons that Sheik/Fox/Falcon beats Peach is because they have a grab to kill setup against Peach. Any character that has a grab to kill on the other character is huge.

 

[Armada]

i think the real reason no one knows whether to believe you is because you play against pal (gimp) sheik all the time. I was just studying your set from a year ago with amsah and if that had been ntsc you would have been 3 stocked.

Even when you're not on point the sheiks can't do anything to you in europe because they can't finish you off at a reasonable percent

anyway, in the US i think a lot of us have more trouble with sheik than with fox, but it's still a tossup in my mind as to which is harder.

I spend a lot of time studying your peach vs fox and while it's true you have to approach the fox if he's dashdance camping you, the frame window for actually punishing peach's whiffs is very small because float/instant jump back out of 4 frames of landing lag is hard for fox to punish with nair.

OKAY
Late reply (sorry). Do you really think I don't change my style from PAL and NTSC when I KNOW in Pal she can't do **** from grab at higher %.
Of course Im aware of this and change my style into what's better for the actuall match.

Why would I play like I do vs a NTSC Sheik when I play PAL?
Give me one good reason why the transistion is not hard at all.

Fox is way harder than Sheik. I will beat all Sheiks in NTSC at the next tournament (to bad me vs KirbyKaze from Apex 2013 did not get recorded and you would understand).

 

[knightpraetor]

sorry. I know you change your style. forgive the skepticism. i am actually leaning toward fox being harder at the moment too. However, I don't think it's that strange that some people would find sheik harder in ntsc

 

[victra♥]

wait till you play a puff that can connect rests and is willing to time you out

then you will know pain

 

[pheX]

Puff might be her worst match up. If you play it like hungrybox does, it is unwinnable for peach. But fortunately hungrybox is the only jiggz out there that can play this match up so well. Falcon is a horrible match up for peach which explains why silent spectre is the only player with a positive record against Armada. For Fox it is always the same: amazing Match Up in theory but hard to pull it off in a real game. Anyhow, if you play against a fox as consistent as leffen's you can not win the match up with peach. Last time Armada and Leffen faced (Beast4) Armada could only win a single game vs Leffen, in a Fox ditto. No chance with Peach.
Marth has a slight advantage against peach but the match up is definately not as bad as falcon jiggz and Fox. I cant say anything about the NTSC Sheik MU since I play PAL only and basically there are only two REALLY good sheiks who play NTSC: M2K and KirbyKaze. KirbyKaze and Armada have not met in tournament yet and M2K played 1 Match against Armada that he lost due to a missed waveland at the end. Therefore I am not able to judge the MU. In PAL it is rather in Peach's favor because Sheik is just not able to finish her which gives peach a huge advantage since she is able to gimp sheik and finish her off early. Considering this the Match Up is very different in NTSC since sheik can get a safe kill set up out of the dthrow and has an upair that kills. This also explains that Amsah could be Armada at Pound 4 while he couldnt take a single match from him in PAL.
Falco vs Peach seems pretty even to me, maybe a slight advantage for falco.

I am not sure which low tiers have a good MU against Peach. I struggle a lot with campy Ylinks. But i generally have problems with campy players and characters like samus so I dont know.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

(to bad me vs KirbyKaze from Apex 2013 did not get recorded and you would understand).

I hunger for this set. I've spent so much time studying armada vs sheik. All the NSTC matches are either him losing to Amsah or destroying lower-level sheiks.

 

[Armada]

Me vs Amsah var more than 4 YEARS ago. A tournament I also happend to be very sick at.
Me/M2k was one match at EVO, he did SD but he has about 100% on his last stock, not like my win was completely undeserved or anything like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56OlY2e641I
Only one friendly.
BOTH my brothers play Sheik, Im completely confident when I say Fox is WAY worse for Peach (Android also happens to have the best understanding of playing against Peach with Sheik in the world I would say).

Why do people overall just mention my worst sets, after years of basically no losing sets at all?
Sometimes it feels like people expect me to be some kind of robot that has one level and it can never be better/worse.

Beast4 was a nightmare for me in many ways for example... not saying I would win but still

 

[DoH]

IMO

Fox
Sheik
Falcon
Marth
Puff

 

[knightpraetor]

so hard to decide, but it's kind of fun to make a list. So in my opinion, the worst matchups in order:

puff
fox
falcon
sheik
falco
marth

samus
doc
luigi

y. link
mario
ganon
DK

link
yoshi
pikachu
mewtwo

ness
G&W
roy
bowser
pichu

 

[OliClutch117]

so hard to decide, but it's kind of fun to make a list. So in my opinion, the worst matchups in order:

puff
fox
falcon
sheik
falco
marth

samus
doc
luigi

y. link
mario
ganon
DK

link
yoshi
pikachu
mewtwo

ness
G&W
roy
bowser
pichu

Wheres kirby? I've gotta know.

 

[knightpraetor]

with bowser and pichu. now that i think of it, bowser, pichu, and kirby all have zero chance of victory against a competent peach. At least mewtwo has options, but talk about free

 

[AozoraX]

Falcon makes me want to cry sometimes.
I'd say i's Fox > Puff/Falcon/Falco > Marth/Sheik > Everyone else.

But that's just me. I'm getting over with Fox, Marth and Sheik aren't a huge problem anymore - but Puffs are so painful to deal with.

Edit - Sheik can probably be roped with puff/falcon/falco too fml

 

[victra♥]

peach is just bad against all the top tiers lol #thestruggle

 

[Doublecork]

Hate playing a Sheik. Too fast in the air. I don't know why everyone hates playing Marth with Peach. I can usually stop most Marths.

 

[AozoraX]

play against a good marth >_>

 

[Magnawolf]

I hunger for this set. I've spent so much time studying armada vs sheik. All the NSTC matches are either him losing to Amsah or destroying lower-level sheiks.

Armada has proven you wrong by beating the best Sheik in the world, M2K multiple times now.

 

[DoH]

That was in April though, before those matches happened.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Young Link goes in against Peach though!

Anybody in here have thoughts on Samus vs Peach? I feel like Samus can poke pretty well with tilts. The projectile advantage has to go to Samus, too, because she can missile in the air.

Peach's dash attack can be crouch cancelled to ~45 by Samus if I remember correctly.

 

[Magnawolf]

That was in April though, before those matches happened.

Which is why I said Armada proved him wrong.

 

[DoH]

Which is why I said Armada proved him wrong.

Mafia didn't say Armada couldn't do it, there just wasn't any footage of Armada vs a top level NTSC Sheik since the set with KK was lost.

Also Peach destroys Samus. All of her moves go through missiles (except like...ftilt) and you just poke her until she dies. Peach has a better edgeguard on Samus and the only way Samus can kill Peach is a rogue smash or a charge shot until higher percents. Plus with all the turnips Peach will pull it becomes more likely that you'll get a stitch.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Can't bair and nair kill peach (and even dair off the top)?

 

[DoH]

At like 150+ on most stages, which is much longer than you want Peach to live. Also there are no setups into it so you have to pray the Peach commits hard to it.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Armada has proven you wrong by beating the best Sheik in the world, M2K multiple times now.

lmao you got me ???
yeah i posted this in april, before all the hubbub. And i'd agree with you IF M2K played all sheik in a set against Armada. But i won't complain, the matches in which armada's beat m2k's sheik were very educational

 

[ChivalRuse]

I don't know. I just feel like Samus's faster jump, ground speed, and auto cancelled missiles from platforms would be annoying for Peach. But I guess she somehow wins the long drawn out battle in the long run?

 

[Magnawolf]

lmao you got me ???
yeah i posted this in april, before all the hubbub. And i'd agree with you IF M2K played all sheik in a set against Armada. But i won't complain, the matches in which armada's beat m2k's sheik were very educational

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seqIpIpAngo

M2K goes all Sheik here.

 

[DoH]

lmao you got me ???
yeah i posted this in april, before all the hubbub. And i'd agree with you IF M2K played all sheik in a set against Armada. But i won't complain, the matches in which armada's beat m2k's sheik were very educational

There wasn't anything to get though, like all you were stating was that there was 0 video of Armada vs a high level NTSC Sheik. You never said it couldn't be done.

Also wtf I am defending Mafia.

The only thing that is annoying about Samus is her up b out of shield. Peach eats missiles for breakfast. She can pressure Samus really well into a corner, cutting off her mobility.

 

[Magnawolf]

There wasn't anything to get though, like all you were stating was that there was 0 video of Armada vs a high level NTSC Sheik. You never said it couldn't be done.

Of course he never said it couldn't be done but he did say Sheik was Peach's worst match-up which is why I said Armada proved him wrong by beating the best Sheik in the world consistently.

 

[Calzum!]

Marth
Falcon
Puff
Falco
Fox
Shiek

marth is just too stronk for me, i can't seem to get the matchup down its silly

 

[The Prince: SDJ]

Character MU's against peach are much more dependent on the type of player. An aggressive puff, falco, and marth can have difficulties with peach, unlike players playing those characters defensively. When sheik is aggressive the MU revolves around who can punish who harder. With defensive sheik many nickles and dimes will be thrown to rack up percent