• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Worst move in the game. Vote! Maybe Nintendo will listen...

TheKingWalnut

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
123
Little Mac's neutral special.
There's almost never a time to use this, it takes forever to charge, and it isn't really a reliable shield break punish.
 

salaboB

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
2,136
She's balanced for FFAs. She's supposed to avoid fights and lob in Charge Shots for KOs, and she does it well.
This argues that homing missiles aren't the worst move in the game (Which I said, yay!) but there's no reason her approach options can't be improved -- she'd still be a slow, large, floaty target with extreme difficulty getting in and focusing one guy when someone else could pop in and take her out any time, so having a slightly better approach wouldn't help her there.

Samus' fair could be made a useful approach option, without making her materially stronger in FFAs.

(I'd go after her nair but I suspect that's an FFA balance issue since it used to be an amazing "get away from me" and now is blehh)

tl;dr: Balancing a character for FFAs does not mean they can't also be balanced for 1v1, and there are practical ways it could be done.
 

LancerStaff

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
8,118
Location
Buried under 990+ weapons
3DS FC
1504-5709-4054
This argues that homing missiles aren't the worst move in the game (Which I said, yay!) but there's no reason her approach options can't be improved -- she'd still be a slow, large, floaty target with extreme difficulty getting in and focusing one guy when someone else could pop in and take her out any time, so having a slightly better approach wouldn't help her there.

Samus' fair could be made a useful approach option, without making her materially stronger in FFAs.

(I'd go after her nair but I suspect that's an FFA balance issue since it used to be an amazing "get away from me" and now is blehh)

tl;dr: Balancing a character for FFAs does not mean they can't also be balanced for 1v1, and there are practical ways it could be done.
I don't think you realize how unimportant 1v1s are in the grand scheme of things. It's a complete non-issue to 99% of players.

And you're making it sound like she's the worst character. She ain't. She hasn't been buffed in any major way because she's not a priority. Quit whining when there's even worse characters for 1v1s.
 

salaboB

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
2,136
I don't think you realize how unimportant 1v1s are in the grand scheme of things. It's a complete non-issue to 99% of players.

And you're making it sound like she's the worst character. She ain't. She hasn't been buffed in any major way because she's not a priority. Quit whining when there's even worse characters for 1v1s.
"There's others worse so don't discuss needed improvements" is insulting.

I would like the others to be buffed as well, but they don't have an easy "This move competes with worst move in the game" to point at in this thread. Samus has some truly awful individual moves and a far from dominating power level in any mode.

Please stop with the strawmen.
 
Last edited:

LancerStaff

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
8,118
Location
Buried under 990+ weapons
3DS FC
1504-5709-4054
"There's others worse so don't discuss needed improvements" is insulting.

I would like the others to be buffed as well, but they don't have an easy "This move competes with worst move in the game" to point at in this thread. Samus has some truly awful individual moves and a far from dominating power level in any mode.

Please stop with the strawmen.
Other then fixes or very minor buffs characters are usually adjusted in accordance to the Japanese tier list. No amount of whining will buff a character on top of D when there's the rest of D and E to fix. It's just that simple.
 
Last edited:

ZeekLTK

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 16, 2015
Messages
30
Worst move is easily Luigi's up-B. You are literally helpless after the initial up movement, especially after landing on your head. Plus it doesn't really do much damage (you can connect on a "sweetspot", but in most cases that doesn't hit and it only does like 1-2% damage).

I guess it is moderately useful for recovery, but you generally have to make another move in order to get in position to use it and then you HAVE to grab the edge, because otherwise you land on your damn head...
 
Last edited:

MarioMeteor

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
8,340
Location
New Orleans
NNID
BGenius23
3DS FC
0662-2900-1492
Sing customs are actually arguably worse, which is just cruel of Sakurai.
Hyper Voice is straight-up better than Sing, we don't talk about Spinphony.
But while we're on the subject of Jigglypuff and her moves, why are her smash attacks so horrible? Particularly down smash. It's not fast (frame 16), it's not strong (11%), and it doesn't KO at any reasonable percent. Now, I might be able to excuse all that if it wasn't for the fact that the move literally has no range. It might as well be Rest, that's how small it is. Palutena's Ftilt has range at least. Samus' Missiles can be spammed from a distance. Sing can mean a free KO if landed. How to fix Severely up the knockback, damage, and range and it's fine. I realize that it's supposed to be used for gimping since it sends opponents at a semi-spike angle, but there is no reasonable excuse why a fully charged smash attack doesn't KO at 100%.
 
Last edited:

DungeonMaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
1,055
Location
Ottawa
NNID
Dalaeck
Luigi's up-B is an amazing kill move that combos out of throw. Some people are extremely skilled at landing this, it's not even close to the league of awful like palutena's f-tilt and homing missile.
Puff's d-smash sends targets at a purely horizontal angle, it can murder some characters with bad recovery, range and damage aside (which I agree are not stellar). It's great as a ledge-regrab punish. Samus's fully charged D-smash does not KO at 200% centre stage incidentally, and I don't consider it "the worst" because it can set up tech chases and cover rolls.

I can't seem to add a poll to the OP? Anyone know if this is possible or do I have to make a new thread? (A mod? Some help plz?)
 

WwwWario

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
637
Location
Norway
PK Fire......








Nah, kidding. It has to be Sing. I do like the moves that is hard to hit and has a good reward, but Sing is too easy to punish, too hard to hit, and the amount of time they're asleep is too short. Though, I feel, if they buffed Sing a lot, Jiggs would be VERY scary, since having the opponents asleep results in a free Rest.
 

MarioMeteor

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
8,340
Location
New Orleans
NNID
BGenius23
3DS FC
0662-2900-1492
Puff's d-smash sends targets at a purely horizontal angle, it can murder some characters with bad recovery, range and damage aside (which I agree are not stellar). It's great as a ledge-regrab punish.
The only characters who are actually going to die from a down smash unless you're right next to the ledge are Ganondorf, Little Mac, the Hero-Kings, and Roy. And Shulk if Jump isn't on.

I can't seem to add a poll to the OP? Anyone know if this is possible or do I have to make a new thread? (A mod? Some help plz?)
Did you try the "more options" thing?
 

DarthGogeta

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
19
Location
Brooklyn, NY
NNID
DarthGogeta
3DS FC
5327-0919-9852
Not a fan of :4palutena: 's tilt attacks either. That's really something considering I'm comfortable with a bunch of characters.
 

Kielhaul

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
26
Location
San Diego
NNID
JADbones96
Ness' pk flash because it's so slow and telegraphed. Lots of end lag. For a high tier character no ranked player uses it in tourneys. Plus you can't recover after it, only free fall
 

MASTER719

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
79
Location
NYC
Greninja Standing Grab [longest startup of any grab, Royzones, doesn't match animation]
 

link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,778
some moves like sing, or ganon's up tilt, are joke/insult moves meant strictly to humiliate your opponent if they land.

they're fine as is when you take this into consideration, if a character needs buffs then its not really to these moves, its to some other ones, leave these as they are.

however moves like palutena's ftilt, or samus's missiles or her up smash(even with the update its still not too good)...these moves were not meant to be "insult/joke" moves like those above, they're the type of moves that need to be fixed.
 

Zerp

Formerly "ZeroSoul"
Administrator
Writing Team
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
4,644
Location
South Carolina
With Customs: :4jigglypuff: Spinphony: Sing, but all it does is spin you around, and is somehow even longer than sing. I have no clue who the heck approved this.


Without Customs: :4jigglypuff: Sing: Sucks that a move and it's variant just had to pop up twice as the worst doesn't it? Especially when that move represents a integral part of her character, it's painful how bad it is. Seriously, Jigglypuff is known for her singing so why is it so sucky of a option? Maybe one day it will be good, but it's sadly terrible as of now.
 

Talpr1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
369
Warlock Thrust. What's the point of this when it's slower and weaker than uncharged f-Smash? I swear its only saving grace might be quickly turning around for using aerial Wizard's Dropkick in the right direction for recovering.
 

DungeonMaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
1,055
Location
Ottawa
NNID
Dalaeck
I think I have to re-create a new thread. This one should be locked and we can continue discussion there.
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,047
Location
The Zelda Boards
Zelda's Up-smash. Yeah, they buffed it in the most recent patch to kill much earlier (now it almost kills as early as her fitilt, PogChamp), but that only affects things the 1/4th of the time that the person you somehow manage to hit with its tiny hitbox doesn't subsequently fall out before the final hit connects. This move should only be used to disrespect your opponent or to try to land a kill when you're at least two stocks ahead.
There is just so much wrong with this.

First, Usmash KOs significantly earlier than her Ftilt now, it KOs earlier even if you're hitting with Ftilt at the edge.

And it KOs that early, while hitting frame 9. Most Usmashes that KO that early hit on frames like 18 (Palutena) 14 (Peach/WiiFit) or 12 with a sweet-spot, like Greninja. On top of that its end lag after the last hit is comparatively on the lower end for Usmashes.

I bet you didn't know they also buffed her Usmash's mult-hit hitboxes' sizes in 1.0.8 as well. As well as improving its ability to connect, causing it to whiff far less.

It's also very good at catching air-dodges and spot dodges because of its long hit duration.

And you...play Zelda?? This move is far from the worst move in the game, it's not even Zelda's worst move.

B Y E.
 
Last edited:

evmaxy54

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
2,476
Location
I hate Tr4sh
NNID
maXywashere
There is just so much wrong with this.

First, Usmash KOs significantly earlier than her Ftilt now, it KOs earlier even if you're hitting with Ftilt at the edge.

And it KOs that early, while hitting frame 9. Most Usmashes that KO that early hit on frames like 18 (Palutena) 14 (Peach/WiiFit) or 12 with a sweet-spot, like Greninja. On top of that its end lag after the last hit is comparatively on the lower end for Usmashes.

I bet you didn't know they also buffed her Usmash's mult-hit hitboxes' sizes in 1.0.8 as well. As well as improving its ability to connect, causing it to whiff far less.

It's also very good at catching air-dodges and spot dodges because of its long hit duration.

And you...play Zelda?? This move is far from the worst move in the game, it's not even Zelda's worst move.

B Y E.
 

Linq

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
66
NNID
LegendOfLinq
3DS FC
4639-8962-6197
There is just so much wrong with this.
I bet you didn't know they also buffed her Usmash's mult-hit hitboxes' sizes in 1.0.8 as well. As well as improving its ability to connect, causing it to whiff far less.
Yeah, I didn't realize they made it connect better. I hadn't really played Zelda since the patch, but I played her quite a bit yesterday and didn't have anyone drop out of it (in fact, the final hit managed to connect with people who weren't even trapped by the multihits). The big deal pre-patch was the opponent would drop out of it the vast majority of the time, so regardless of what its other stats were, it was just so inconsistent that in almost all situations you were better off using a more consistent option than gambling with it. But again, it seems much better now, retracting my original assertion.
And yes I use Zelda, I have 78 hours of play time with her.
 

Nintendoge_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Messages
136
Location
Hiding in a Tree
NNID
Bwooper
3DS FC
1306-6166-5014
Uhhh, the net's heavy?
The net is heavy from the deep burden we carry with us for each innocent person we slaughter mindlessly... Our axe is swinging, day in, day out. We just keep killing and killing and killing because that's what we were born to do! It's how we've been raised...

But someday, it'll become too much. We'll explode under the guilt of the many souls trapped deep within our net and then we'll break. We'll become infused with the bloody rage of the thousands we've already slaughtered and add thousands more to that collection, only allowing our omnipotent power to grow ever more.. No one will be safe.
 
Last edited:

MarioMeteor

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
8,340
Location
New Orleans
NNID
BGenius23
3DS FC
0662-2900-1492
The net is heavy from the deep burden we carry with us for each innocent person we slaughter mindlessly... Our axe is swinging, day in, day out. We just keep killing and killing and killing because that's what we were born to do! It's how we've been raised...

But someday, it'll become too much. We'll explode under the guilt of the many souls trapped deep within our net and then we'll break. We'll become infused with the bloody rage of the thousands we've already slaughtered and add thousands more to that collection, only allowing our omnipotent power to grow ever more.. No one will be safe.
I have but one thing to say to that: Jigglypuff. Now, watch in helplessness as your argument becomes invalid.
 
Last edited:

DavemanCozy

Smash Photographer
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
1,716
Location
London, ON
NNID
CavemanCossy
3DS FC
0216-1810-7681
Zelda is going to need more than just move buffs if she ever hopes to be viable. She's going to need an approach, for starters.

EDIT: Welp, apparently N-air can be used as a more reliable combo starter, and I missed out on her other buffs. :p

I think Jiggs Rollout is really bad. Hbox may be able to pull it off and get away with it in 1v1s, but that move is seriously just not worth pulling off.
 
Last edited:

Infinite901

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
523
Location
Long Island, NY
NNID
Infinite901
3DS FC
3282-4624-0341
I think Jiggs Rollout is really bad. Hbox may be able to pull it off and get away with it in 1v1s, but that move is seriously just not worth pulling off.
It's actually not terrible in Melee and PM. If you get it fully charged it can kill crazy early. (not as early as Rest, buuut...)
 
Top Bottom