World 8 - The Mario Match-Up Index [8-2: Luigi, Doc]

[Sleek Media]

Shiek. Have fun being completely outsped, outspaced, outgimped, and outrecovered. Her weak smashes don't mean jack when she can just bair you off stage all day.

 

[YourFaithfulStudent]

WeeGee please!

 

[HeroMystic]

Tiebreaker between and ?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs Luigi is important to learn because you have to play the matchup completely differently than most. So thus I'll recommend Luigi.

 

[HeroMystic]

Made the Luigi thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/world-8-1-mario-vs-luigi-match-up-thread.387200/

Votes have now been reset.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Sheik. Everything Sheik does feels like it's particularly tailored to **** you up.

 

[BoTastic!]

I think Sheik's definitely Mario's worst match up. Now unless Ally, Anti or some other top Mario player makes themselves useful in the match up discussions and shed some light for our red plumber, my opinion on Sheik is staying, lol.

 

[BoTastic!]

Watching this thread.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Vs Sonic and Falcon, you just throw a lot of grounded fireballs to force them to slow down, and N-air a lot if you get the sense that they're really grab happy, do more DAs and U-smashes if they try to do aerials. Sonic forces you to shield more with Homing Attack and Spindashes or B-air in midrange, and he's a lot harder to kill. Vs Falcon is pretty close to even though. Even though he juggles Mario really easily, Mario can U-tilt him from like 9% to like 40% easily and then edgeguard him with the usual stuff.

Vs Luigi, play this on a custom setting if possible so you can camp him with Fast Fireballs and Gust Cape. The only way you can really win this is by hoping for a long game, and just trying to beat him in a spacing war, going for conservative juggles when they're safe.

I've never felt like Sonic was a particularly bad matchup for Mario. Unfavorable, maybe, but not worse. There are several people who give Mario harder times than Sonic. Though he is still very, very annoying.
It's interesting that you would consider Luigi one of Mario's worst matchups. Sure he outgimps, outcombos, outrecovers, and outKOs you, but I see them as relatively even, if not maybe like 55:45, because Luigi doesn't completely overwhelm Mario in any of those. Except outcombos. That he does in flying colors.

 

[HeroMystic]

Will need votes for the next character. This will start tomorrow or Friday.

Update: Considering how there were no votes. I'll get rid of the voting system and just pick which character will go next. If anyone has any suggestions they're free to post here.

Next MU will be Diddy.

 

[Nit0]

I personally have a lot of trouble vs Link. I am not talking about the projectile spammer, I struggle vs the ones who utilise their range and priority of their sword. It's just insanely hard to get close to Link. The only way to get in is by punishing when he uses a projectile but i can't really combo him since he just breaks out of it with dair. The most i can do is like falling nair>jab>grab>dthrow>uptilt/upair but later on i can't follow up anymore with uair since he can just dair. Any tips are appreciated

 

[MarioMeteor]

I personally have a lot of trouble vs Link. I am not talking about the projectile spammer, I struggle vs the ones who utilise their range and priority of their sword. It's just insanely hard to get close to Link. The only way to get in is by punishing when he uses a projectile but i can't really combo him since he just breaks out of it with dair. The most i can do is like falling nair>jab>grab>dthrow>uptilt/upair but later on i can't follow up anymore with uair since he can just dair. Any tips are appreciated

If he uses DAir, punish the **** out of him. Bait him if you can. Link is also very susceptible to Mario's down throw combos. You can FLUDD him to kingdom come too. You should also abuse fireballs. He doesn't really have anything that you can't deal with.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Falcon can be tough if the player is good and knows how to abuse Falcon's range advantage over Mario. He does more damage per hit, outranges Mario in general, has a superior jab in CQC, superior ground mobility, an edge in KO power, and has damaging combos of his own. We also are already susceptible to juggles and we have no answer to his Uair except to AD and hope he doesn't read it.

On the flip side, on good grab or tilt can mean you're taking Falcon from 0% -> 30% (Uthrow -> Mario tornado -> Fair/Up B) or from 10%-30% -> 70% with Utilt, Uair, and Bair chains finished with an up B. We can camp his landing well too, and we edgeguard him pretty hard with FLUDD, cape, Bair, and soft Nair. You need to edgeguard him well or you're going to die at 80% from a rage Fsmash). We've also got fireballs to help control his mid range game.

I'd call it even, maybe slight Mario edge because he gets more mileage out of his good strings and can edgeguard a bit better, but I don't think Falcon runs away with it.

You have to practice the maximum horizontal distance Up-special+fastfall see recovery guides to get away from Falcon and Up-special also out prioritizes Falcon's U-air. This is because Vertical Motion is faster in Smash 4 but you move slower on ground and in Air and Cape doesn't float. Even if he predicts your air dodge you should still be able to Up-special his foot. Your D-air has a disjointed hitbox but the body is still fair game so the disjointed Up-special is better.

 

[Asdioh]

Yo Mario mains, we at the Kirby boards are discussing the matchup for Mario, and that thing he rides!

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...k-5-rosalina-ness.383428/page-3#post-18441097

please send help

@ DtJ XeroXen 1v1 me nob

 

[LullabyOfChAos]

As a Mario main since day 1, I say the hardest match-up would be Sheik. Sonic is a close 2nd, and Ness is 3rd. I don't think Diddy or Rosalina are hard match-ups, if anything it's even, or Mario has a slight advantage.

 

[Xeze]

I feel that Greninja is a very bad matchup. His speed and disjointed attacks are too much for Mario to handle. And he has a good enough recovery to not get gimped by cape+FLUDD. It might just be a personal trouble but I always struggle to fight Greninjas.

 

[meleebrawler]

I feel that Greninja is a very bad matchup. His speed and disjointed attacks are too much for Mario to handle. And he has a good enough recovery to not get gimped by cape+FLUDD. It might just be a personal trouble but I always struggle to fight Greninjas.

Greninja commits much harder than Mario on almost everything he does,
and he doesn't do well when his shield is pressured since his standing grab comes out
slow. Reflecting should get decent results since he can't throw shurikens fast enough
to cancel them out, and it makes sure he will never used fully charged ones.

Be patient, he may be more mobile than Mario in most respects but sooner
or later he will end up leaving himself open and you can punish.

 

[ChefKef]

Having a lot of trouble against Sheik, could she be put onto the lineup?

 

[HeroMystic]

If there are no other suggestions, she will be applied for next week.

 

[Xeze]

Sheik looks good to me too

 

[Kwam$tack$]

I only really have a problem with fox and sonic cause theyre the only characters faster than him. they can get to you so much easier than you can get to them. sheik and rosalina are a real trouble but they can be beaten. it just takes time and few mistakes

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs Fox is weird but not really hard. Fox has a big problem actually killing you given his throw setups are pretty weak overall, meaning at high percents, you can frustrate him a lot by playing really defensively. He does otherwise force you to deal with lasers and his superior mobility, but you have a good combo game on him and he's also one of the lightest characters in the game, meaning you don't actually have to work hard to KO him.

Vs Sonic is boring. Camp with grounded fireballs, throw out N-airs and D-airs, and wait for him to make mistakes. That's pretty much all you can really do in that matchup.

 

[Beta_Smash]

Step 1) Walk over to the ledge

Step 2) Shieldgrab any attack attempts or if they are going to run in and grab, spotdodge and grab them.

Step 3) Throw them off and gimp.

Step 4) Watch the salt fly.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Step 1) Walk over to the ledge

Step 2) Shieldgrab any attack attempts or if they are going to run in and grab, spotdodge and grab them.

Step 3) Throw them off and gimp.

Step 4) Watch the salt fly.

Step 5) Taunt.

 

[Beta_Smash]

Step 6) Rinse and Repeat.

 

[M@v]

Rosalina drives me up the wall with Mario. I can kill luma super easily but that's about it.

Vs sonic = lots of nairs and fireballs. Fireballs let you control the pace of the match and stop him from spin dashing liberally, and nair beats spindash out. FLUDD's kind of useless vs him for the most part though.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Step 6) Rinse and Repeat.

Step 7) Just to spite them, switch to Jigglypuff and do the same thing.

 

[Beta_Smash]

Step 7) Just to spite them, switch to Jigglypuff and do the same thing.

Step 8) Pick little Mac and throw them off, counter right beside the edge since FG Macs don't sweet spot.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Step 8) Pick little Mac and throw them off, counter right beside the edge since FG Macs don't sweet spot.

Step 9) Laugh evilly to yourself and quit so that they don't get a chance to redeem themselves.
Step 10) Pour yourself a cup of tea and sit in the velvet chair in the foyer in front of the fireplace while you smile to yourself knowing that somewhere, you just made somebodies sodium intake skyrocket.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I like to just stand on a platform just outside of their reach and watch them struggle to do anything at all. I punish them super hard for trying to get up there with me.

 

[Beta_Smash]

I played one of the best Smash 4 players in my state who played Little Mac yesterday.

Against a smart player, don't challenge Little Mac when you're above him, attempt to land safely.

As for our Utilt strings, after the first or second hit he can counter.

Against a mindless Mac just wait near the edge for the dash attack or side special.

WORK for a percentage lead, and that will force him to approach.

 

[Kwam$tack$]

its funny. after my post ive been fighting nothing but good sheiks and shes a ***** to deal with. i love the matchup though. you gotta use everything that you have and its a long tough fight. i changed my mind. sheiks much harder to deal with than fox lol. i feel like a good sheik is a true test of skill for

edit: not sure if it was a fluke or not but today i was playing a rosalina and anytime luma was away from her i could just dtilt repeatedly on it and it'd get stuck because it's so heavy. i'd rack on atleast like 25% easy each stock before adujstments were made leading to an easy luma kill which leads to an easy rosa kill

 

[Super FOG]

My ask for help is not restricted to Smash 3DS/Wii U only, this is an issue that haunts me since Melee and Brawl, and now reached its apex (no pun intended). I simply can't defeat Marth using Mario! As long as I train, study the character, his most common tricks, raise my Mario, fight players with assorted skill levels, and etc. Marth is still a pain in the a** against Mario, and this is throughout the entire goddamn series! There isn't a Smash game where a Mario is able to defeat Marth simplly because the number of advantages Marth have against Mario are absurd, and this pisses me off a lot. With that said, yes, I hate Marth from the depths of my heart as a Smash player, I only use him on single player modes, I can't stand two or three matches fighting against one (because I always lose, even when I manage to rack up a big amonut of damage on his last stock).

Yup, I made a salty discussion, I know, but my problem is real! I really want to defeat Marth with Mario no matter what! i'm tired to get rekt by this stupid character in every single game he is in.

 

[HeroMystic]

Marth in Melee and Brawl pretty much decimated Mario because there wasn't any ways to effectively get inside. Melee Marth was less difficult than Brawl Marth (due to the constant resets to neutral which is something Mario does not want). In Smash 4, Marth is easier due to his terrible aggressive play and heavy commitment to just about any aerial.

The MU vs Marth is all about patience. Don't rush, don't force any opportunities. Fireball patiently and stay just outside of his range to keep him pressured with your presence. Once you seize an opportunity, wreck him as much as you can. Only thing you have to worry by that point is Counter.

Marth still wins the MU due to his tipper damage and KO power, but it's much more winnable than before.

 

[HeroMystic]

I like to just stand on a platform just outside of their reach and watch them struggle to do anything at all. I punish them super hard for trying to get up there with me.

The Ultimate gay strat vs Mac.

Even better on Duck Hunt.

 

[MrM]

Fireballs can force him to approach just stay out of his tip range you can follow the fireball and read what he does if he attacks shield then go for grab if he shields free grab i suggest conditioning him with dthrow upb then change to dthrow uair see how far you can chain till he counters then start baiting it out for a free punish

 

[HeroMystic]

Due to the poor progression of MU threads, I'm going to abandon the current format and allow free discussion between characters. Any posts with healthy information I'll add to the OP so users can reference to them.

The MU format will return months down the line when the metagame has more development.

 

[Airboysteel]

He guy this is Airboy here.

Can someone help me with the Mario vs ROB match up?

 

[HeroMystic]

How is ROB giving you trouble?

 

[-Sensei-]

The key to the ROB matchup is getting in his face and staying there. He's susceptible to juggles since his nair and dair both have long startup. His other aerials don't hit below him. Cape his projectiles and watch out for his side b(it has a longer lasting hitbox this time around)