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Women in Smash Infographic

thatspoetry

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
27
Because if you can deal with what ever other stuff you put up with, you can surely deal with this one little thing.

And if by "a constant thing" you mean there are people in your life who consistently say it, then you can call them out. If it's just a random assortment of people who all say it to you by coincidence and you never see them again, you really should be able to just let go.

Or even better, just phase out the "for a girl" part. In general, I have a mindset of "I might be good but I could be better". Adopting such a mindset makes (possibly unintentionally) demeaning comments a non-issue.

And to be quite honest, guys have equivalent things they may say to each other. I'm not trying to sound mean, or put you down, but I really think you're letting this get to you more than you should be. Just be strong, is all I'm saying. Then those comments will mean absolutely nothing to you.

If by deal do you mean one of the five stages of coping with distress? I believe there is denial, repression, displacement, assimilation and rationalization.
I guess you mean to go into denial because it isn't going to be a repressive defense mechanism.
If she argued back she would be lowering herself to whoever else's level. If she learned from this it would be to change people which you don't want and the last one definitely has to do with letting go but not in the way you mean.
You can talk to me if you want because all these people ignoring me is kind of tiresome. I think it's my turn to get a chance at talking with you all opposing this article.
 
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CardiganBoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
1,755
Location
Naked in Magicant
For shame! i mean, sand bagging for fighting a girl? rage because beaten by a woman? sexual assaults?!
JEEZ! sure there is a need to solve this problems and show more respect.
 

Phantonius

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
2
Location
Minnesota, Twin Cities and surrounding Suburbs
Mind games and trash talk are big parts of the game, if someone says something inappropriate I believe that's there personal character. Many players do say "offensive" things but at the same time a lot of people are really easily offended.

I don't think we should limit trash talk between players because of the emotional shock and value represented in the words used, however in higher level tournament play? Curses used are only an opportunity to lower Nintendo's opinion of competitive smash. If we're all adults that just cuss and yell about **** with a game like smash, that kind of stuff is what's gonna keep us out of EVO2014.

I think it was Wife that talked about the next generation of smashers and had the stream chat going wild shouting out their ages. Super common ages were kids from 12 to 17 years old, and though the kids and their parents may have no problems with the scene, it's not Nintendo's model for a smash game to attract an audience around some people they may consider "bad examples."

Forget the trash talk now because there is absolutely no exception for ACTUALLY and PUBLICLY molesting a female player! A lot of the guys in smash are a little quirky but I seriously thought it was the tough player that can't even speak a sentence to a girl kind of people but there are some serious goons that don't quite get it evidently!

In short, clean it up for the kids, keep your hands to yourselves/controllers.
 

TopTierPichu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
651
Location
Florida
c'mon guys, show some maturity, dont we want an even larger community? in order to do this we need to be open to every one regardless of anything
 

κomıc

Highly Offensive
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
1,854
Location
Wh✪relando
NNID
komicturtle
I get excited seeing females play video games. But that's probably because I get along with girls than I do guys (because several guys I've met in my life time have that mentality of being the Alpha Male and I don't gel well with that concept).

I love info graphics like these. Nice read.

In regards to the sexual assaults- is that verbal or physical?

And if anyone can't stand trash talk, compliment the trash talker. Normally they trash talk for reaction and to boost their self worth. Break the 4th wall and play mind games with them beyond the game itself.

Smile and laugh. Because at the end of the day, who cares what a stranger has to say about you especially if you're in a tournament to just enjoy and play the game even if the person trash talking is allegedly "well-known" :p
 
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Phantonius

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
2
Location
Minnesota, Twin Cities and surrounding Suburbs
If by deal do you mean one of the five stages of coping with distress? I believe there is denial, repression, displacement, assimilation and grief. I guess you mean to go into denial because it isn't going to be a repressive defense mechanism. If she argued back she would be lowering herself to whoever else's level. If she learned from this it would be to change people which you don't want and the last one definitely has to do with letting go but not in the way you mean. You can talk to me if you want because all these people ignoring me is kind of tiresome. I think it's my turn to get a chance at talking with you all opposing this article.
Kay pal let's chat, first off go up and check out the link to the article posted by Archangel http://n8dawgcrank.tumblr.com/. Read it real nice and thorough, and now think about how selfish the EQUAL human race is. We're ALL greedy is all the people that oppose the article are saying, and we really shouldn't be calling this an "article." These things came from blogs, these "interviews" are social media. Here we see an opinion repressed and not included. Most importantly if people want actual equality, we're all gonna need to step back and openly CONSIDER other people's opinions and beliefs. NOT JUST RESPECT them. It's an active process of standing up for your beliefs when you have the mic and listening and thinking when someone else has it. I read the info-graphic in this article, thought about how horrible it all was, wondered how there could possibly only be 53 competitive smash girls in the scene, and then immediately found Archangel's link. I think we need to all accept that it doesn't matter enough to take names over and we should each play the game and go about our lives as we would. The info-graphic states that some girls got into the scene through relationships, so it is possible for smashers to meet and date through the scene, BUT WE'RE NOT DUMB ENOUGH TO THINK THAT WE CAN ALL GET A SMASH-PLAYING GIRL ARE WE? Course not, so there's little to no pressure to hit on one anyway. It's like if I were to go to Rom7, I would've been 0-8 to those guys in pools, not a chance for me. Because I had no chance I wouldn't have made a big deal out of it, same with a girl in smash, wait until you start playing to react, if she's bad then beat like you would a sibling, make it hurt and try to teach. If she's good then scrape together a close game or lose, share a fist-bump and once again get or give a tip just like you would any other. Say the girl asks to play some casuals or spar or hang out then COOL. If women(if I am allowed to still call them just women and not the politically correct female human genetic presence) want men, (male genetic human presence) to understand what they want then they need to tell us and they need to initiate.

Cool I'm done, I'm sorry if I missed anything but I probably won't remain active on this thread. I'd just like to watch because if people refuse to consider to my slightly salty opinion after this waste of my time they'll never have it.
 

thatspoetry

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
27
Kay pal let's chat, first off go up and check out the link to the article posted by Archangel http://n8dawgcrank.tumblr.com/. Read it real nice and thorough, and now think about how selfish the EQUAL human race is. We're ALL greedy is all the people that oppose the article are saying, and we really shouldn't be calling this an "article." These things came from blogs, these "interviews" are social media. Here we see an opinion repressed and not included. Most importantly if people want actual equality, we're all gonna need to step back and openly CONSIDER other people's opinions and beliefs. NOT JUST RESPECT them. It's an active process of standing up for your beliefs when you have the mic and listening and thinking when someone else has it. I read the info-graphic in this article, thought about how horrible it all was, wondered how there could possibly only be 53 competitive smash girls in the scene, and then immediately found Archangel's link. I think we need to all accept that it doesn't matter enough to take names over and we should each play the game and go about our lives as we would. The info-graphic states that some girls got into the scene through relationships, so it is possible for smashers to meet and date through the scene, BUT WE'RE NOT DUMB ENOUGH TO THINK THAT WE CAN ALL GET A SMASH-PLAYING GIRL ARE WE? Course not, so there's little to no pressure to hit on one anyway. It's like if I were to go to Rom7, I would've been 0-8 to those guys in pools, not a chance for me. Because I had no chance I wouldn't have made a big deal out of it, same with a girl in smash, wait until you start playing to react, if she's bad then beat like you would a sibling, make it hurt and try to teach. If she's good then scrape together a close game or lose, share a fist-bump and once again get or give a tip just like you would any other. Say the girl asks to play some casuals or spar or hang out then COOL. If women(if I am allowed to still call them just women and not the politically correct female human genetic presence) want men, (male genetic human presence) to understand what they want then they need to tell us and they need to initiate.

Cool I'm done, I'm sorry if I missed anything but I probably won't remain active on this thread. I'd just like to watch because if people refuse to consider to my slightly salty opinion after this waste of my time they'll never have it.
I would agree that the humanity is equal but is it within its proper equivalencies? In the position of our generation is there a proper holding to our beliefs or the truth? We have these double standards to be given an insight to many parties at the same time and all may not agree or understand it but become obliged to it. We have the world's truth, another's truth, and the truth of the self.

What can be made of this when there is so many differing perspectives? We must hold it as all truths coinciding not only for the respect of persons but for their health and well being. To this greed and selfishness you speak of I would argue that the human race is inherently good. It is from the moment of birth that we look to our guardian and seek their help and not all may receive it but there lies a double standard. Where can this child. our self, be given something, in our equality and moment of forgiveness, where is this moment of truth? We find a hand to grasp for we are all part of this accumulative process in another or another or another. Whether there is a standing view upon the self we seek hope. Even those not seen for a little at the moments of their dire need give us a piece of intertwined humanity. Their drive lives in us; their breathes create a push in the natural forces of all. I speak of theories and philosophies for that is what is for me.

For this is a small piece of the psychology of the world. Would you agree that the world has enough greed or even malice to oppose good? Surely there cannot be an imbalance for we are living and are fighting are strong and are here. I must agree with you that we must oblige ourselves to the standings, manner, and entities of others in their way of life and as an adult someone mature and balanced and giving they sacrifice a part of their beliefs, identity, and demographic in order to respect them. For as a person in their faculties they must function through the exchange of balances.

Indeed I read this person's article fully and thoroughly and with this response posted on this forum I give my word to both of you that I understand your views and do not agree with them but do respect them. I ask of you for these questions I prompted to be asked and to be thought. We may not even have to discuss it but I hope something comes along and if not in all good tidings.
 
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Vixen

~::Fragile::~
Premium
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
1,511
Location
Tucson, Arizona
Because if you can deal with what ever other stuff you put up with, you can surely deal with this one little thing.

And if by "a constant thing" you mean there are people in your life who consistently say it, then you can call them out. If it's just a random assortment of people who all say it to you by coincidence and you never see them again, you really should be able to just let go.

Or even better, just phase out the "for a girl" part. In general, I have a mindset of "I might be good but I could be better". Adopting such a mindset makes (possibly unintentionally) demeaning comments a non-issue.

And to be quite honest, guys have equivalent things they may say to each other. I'm not trying to sound mean, or put you down, but I really think you're letting this get to you more than you should be. Just be strong, is all I'm saying. Then those comments will mean absolutely nothing to you.
The reason why this behavior isn't acceptable to me is because competitive gaming is effectively, the entirety of my life. I dedicate just about every waking moment, and cent earned toward sustaining my ability to compete, and provide content. Working, paying bills, training, research, buying equipment, travel, etc. To me, having my skill demeaned because of my gender is a much more insulting thing than most other things people could possibly say.

As a competitive person. A PARTICULARLY competitive person, being viewed as anything else than an equal on the playing field is a complete insult to the time, effort, and sweat shed in the 14 long years I've spent a competitive gamer. It hurts. You're telling me to "get over" or sweep under the rug something that does legitimately hurt my feelings, and lessens my experience at an event. "For a girl" is the key phrase, because it implies that, if I were male, my skill would be less than what it is, which certainly isn't true. My tournament history says otherwise. However, because I'm not a superstar, and that I don't always make waves out of state, I'm a player regularly undervalued. It's not pleasant, and those three words drive the nail in deeper. Transphobic remarks I get when traveling doesn't help that, either.

I do agree that "for a girl" needs to be phased out. Women should be treated as an equal. Not that I said "Equal" and not "the same." You don't treat a woman the way you would with your guy friends. That should be common sense.

These posts do come across as at least somewhat passive aggressive. While you're not being outright offensive, or abrasive with your posts, phrases like "just be strong" stand out to me as offensive. It's another implication that I'm NOT strong already, or that I'm acting more strongly about this subject than you think I should. You're forcing your opinion on to me. Does that make sense?
 

starcock

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
230
NNID
Starcock
Eh, this thread got too much attention, I am outy.
 
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smashbroskilla

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
685
Location
Lake Worth, Florida
3DS FC
5086-2745-2582
Don't you love how they completely ignore me so they can make some invalid argument. I'm guessing they can't handle what I'm saying/ I hope some people are reading it though. I feel totally ignored. xD

Don't waste your time trying to rationalize with this Vixen person. He/she did the same thing in their "trans-phobia in smash" thread. Also has another thread on how to make your partner less upset. Not one thing that comes from Vixens fingertips is noteworthy imo.
 

thatspoetry

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
27
Don't waste your time trying to rationalize with this Vixen person. He/she did the same thing in their "trans-phobia in smash" thread. Also has another thread on how to make your partner less upset. Not one thing that comes from Vixens fingertips is noteworthy imo.
uuuh? ok? I have my own opinion on this topic. It had nothing to do with trying to deal with her point of view by saying rationalization? I definitely wasn't doing that. I believe she has her own idea on this too. I don't see the harm in calling her with the term "she, female, woman, her" even if you don't believe it. It's not like a little honesty hurt anyone. I consider her whatever she wants and I'm a complete stranger. Oh well. I don't like talking like people aren't there so I'm done with talking about Vixen. I just thought you could understand that much.
 

ChikoLad

Purple Boi
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
23,084
The reason why this behavior isn't acceptable to me is because competitive gaming is effectively, the entirety of my life. I dedicate just about every waking moment, and cent earned toward sustaining my ability to compete, and provide content. Working, paying bills, training, research, buying equipment, travel, etc. To me, having my skill demeaned because of my gender is a much more insulting thing than most other things people could possibly say.

As a competitive person. A PARTICULARLY competitive person, being viewed as anything else than an equal on the playing field is a complete insult to the time, effort, and sweat shed in the 14 long years I've spent a competitive gamer. It hurts. You're telling me to "get over" or sweep under the rug something that does legitimately hurt my feelings, and lessens my experience at an event. "For a girl" is the key phrase, because it implies that, if I were male, my skill would be less than what it is, which certainly isn't true. My tournament history says otherwise. However, because I'm not a superstar, and that I don't always make waves out of state, I'm a player regularly undervalued. It's not pleasant, and those three words drive the nail in deeper. Transphobic remarks I get when traveling doesn't help that, either.

I do agree that "for a girl" needs to be phased out. Women should be treated as an equal. Not that I said "Equal" and not "the same." You don't treat a woman the way you would with your guy friends. That should be common sense.

These posts do come across as at least somewhat passive aggressive. While you're not being outright offensive, or abrasive with your posts, phrases like "just be strong" stand out to me as offensive. It's another implication that I'm NOT strong already, or that I'm acting more strongly about this subject than you think I should. You're forcing your opinion on to me. Does that make sense?
In that case, if you are not able to handle demeaning comments, you really shouldn't be in any sort of competitive scene. If you can't sweep them under the rug (especially when they are not the most hurtful thing that could be said/done), why bother doing this? It's a simple fact of life that a lot of things come with hardship. For example, I'm training to become a video games designer. And video games design comes with demeaning comments. Just think about all of the games that get crapped on for no good reason (Brawl, for example, has suffered this. It's an amazing game, but some people don't want to acknowledge that because it's not competitive enough), and all of the death threats developers get. Chances are I'm going to experience all of that horrible stuff, but I'm going into the trade KNOWING this, and ready to cope with it. Instead of spending ages on twitter dealing with jerks on the internet like some developers do, I'm just gonna make my games and if people don't like them for stupid reasons, then that's their problem and not mine, because I know I can't please everyone.

I'm not saying the comments you receive are right, but it's impossible for people to stop saying them, because as I've said, some people are stupid, awkward, bad with words, etc. And I can bet that the majority of times you've heard that phrase, it wasn't even intended to be offensive, it was just a guy being awkward. As I have also said, if this recurring phrase is coming from the same few people you see again and again, tell them you don't like to hear that phrase, and maybe they will stop. But if the people doing this are just an assortment of random people you only saw once, then learn to sweep it under the rug, because getting all hot and bothered over it when a stranger says it isn't going to do anything for you, and you can't exactly stop them once they've already let the phrase slip out. Unless you intend to stalk them and harass them about it or something, but I'd like to think you'd never do that, as it won't help your case.

And personally, I treat women and men more or less the same. Maybe your idea of treating a man is "be rough and vulgar", but some guys don't actually like that. Similarly, some girls don't feel they need to be treated like a princess, and enjoy "boyish" activities. I treat people according to the likes and dislikes they have set out for me, and try to not do things they won't like. Their sex has no real bearing on this.

And no, I am not forcing my opinion on you. All I have been doing in this entire conversation is giving you advice, and whether or not you choose to take it is up to you. The reason I'm responding to you is because you keep responding to me. If you don't think my advice is satisfactory, you don't have to respond.
And if you find "just be strong" to be offensive, then you are proving my point when I say you are way too over-sensitive. You may have a huge problem with a phrase such as "you're good, for a girl", and may want the whole world, or at least the whole Smash community, to adapt to something that bothers you, but to expect that is childish. There is nothing illegal or EXTREMELY wrong with people saying "you're good, for a girl". You cannot prove that these men who say this are black hearted or despicable based on the fact they say that. But with issues like **** and sexual harassment, those are illegal, and disgusting acts, I'm sure everyone can agree. Hence, people are willing to fight them, regardless of how often they happen. With your problem, people cannot be expected to adapt, as it is small and while it's a bit distasteful at best, it's not a crime. Which is why you should learn to shrug it off. If you have to, just come up with a witty retort whenever people say it.
 

Vixen

~::Fragile::~
Premium
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
1,511
Location
Tucson, Arizona
Don't waste your time trying to rationalize with this Vixen person. He/she did the same thing in their "trans-phobia in smash" thread. Also has another thread on how to make your partner less upset. Not one thing that comes from Vixens fingertips is noteworthy imo.
"Did the same thing"

Excuse me, but WHAT did I do? I was nothing but polite and rational the entire time. You can read the thread again if you like.

Also it's she. End of story.
 
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ChikoLad

Purple Boi
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
23,084
Nicole made a blog few years back which is pretty relevant to this thread.

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=123229

:pow:
:pow:
I'd actually contest that it isn't, as what she described, while terrible, is not really related to Smash or it's tourneys. While she may have been attending a Smash tournament, this scene happened off the tournament premises by the looks of it, and is more relevant to a discussion of alcohol abuse. I'm not underplaying what happened, but it was in no way related to competitive Smash. Especially since she knew the guy personally, so it likely was going to happen anyway.
 

Justkallmekai

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
194
Location
Fontana,California
NNID
ProjectM3.0
3DS FC
0473-8282-3242
I actually hardly say ****, only when I destroy someone, but that someone has to be a friend of mine or I won't say it. But I probably shouldn't even say it at all.
 

ViewtifulHoe242

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
336
Location
All up in yo' bubblegum, Bahamas
wtf arent most of the guys who play smash (the good ones anyway) polite mild mannered scrawny weaklings who sport glasses and dont get enough sunlight? never heard of a buff smashbros player. the hell are these guys sexually assaulting anyone!?
Also ladies, its 2014 now mace and tasers are small enough to fit on a keychain yet powerful enough to make men void their bowels completely, and lets not forget that s swift kick to the groin can often rupture a man's scrotum, fun times!

http://n8dawgcrank.tumblr.com/

I'm gonna place this here. and wait..
i'd like to shake her had for writing that article, but not because she's a girl or anything because that would be sexist. lol
 

star_seeker

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
10
Location
San Diego
NNID
StarSeeker64
3DS FC
2922-0029-4523
Aww jeez, I didn't have any clue that women would be treated like that in the community. I know it's just certain people, but dang. Shouldn't be treating anyone like they are.
Well, let's all hope women become more accepted, as they should be. Go, girl gamers! Go girl smashers!
 

comics

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
63
Location
New Jersey
With items customarily banned from tourneys, I would've hoped making women as one would be a no-go.

Jokes aside, guys, it all starts with you to insure the safety and comfort of women at Smash events. Please show respect. I know it is exciting/unusual at times to have a girl in your radious of vision for this stuff, considering gaming is male dominated and always has been , but times are changing. One day it will be a norm and we won't think twice if a girl whoops our butts video game skill wise, us guys still have a general upper hand considering gaming has been part of us for so long and as a whole know more surrounding it as the time being.

Show newcomers male or female with a basic respect. I wouldn't want to worry about a gay guy touching my pants if I went to a tourney, and I imagine most men wouldn't in such a setting. Lets do our part and help the game we love evolve. And lets work in harmony and get done what we came to do. Play the game and have a blast.
 

JankAllStar

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
1
Location
Naples, FL
http://n8dawgcrank.tumblr.com/

I'm gonna place this here. and wait..
That article is utter garbage and its writer is as stupid as she is arrogant. Not only does she attack a complete strawman, but it's completely anecdotal. That's all it has going for it. Anecdotal nonsense with absolutely nothing to back it up. At least the Melee It on Me article provided an actual sample size with some relevant quotes. As flawed as the sample size may be, it's hard to get a good sample size when you're dealing with a tiny video game community (with an even smaller female population).

Anyway, her rant about Milktea completely missed the point of Milktea's first article (http://milktea-ssbm.tumblr.com/post...p-in-the-super-smash-brothers-melee-community), where Milktea clearly stated "I spent years trying to prove my worth as a player, only to find out that my skill level was ultimately irrelevant."

The point was never about Milktea's skill level, it was that she was being treated much differently just because she was a girl in a men filled community. Milkteas doesn't merely take offense to comments like "you're bad at smash", she takes offense to those comments within the context of being judged as female gamer.

The second objection that " ironically, is a perfect example of all the privileges of being a woman in the smash community" again completely misses the point. For one, Milktea responded to this point about a month ago here: http://milktea-ssbm.tumblr.com/post...eness-in-the-super-smash-bros-melee-community (Next time you should actually provide some context). Secondly, it doesn't matter that she gets some benefits from being a female in a gaming community. The point is that with those benefits (which Milktea doesn't even desire or feel entitled to) comes with major costs which were highlighted in the Milktea's original article and the Melee It on Me article.

Her next diatribe about how particular insults aren't sexist is hilariously dumb and shows that her reading comprehension is laughable. Yes those comments are sexist, but nobody is complaining about those comments in the first place. Where in the Melee It on Me article do the girls complain about that? Not once. The only quote that comes close to that is the “go easy on her”, but that's clearly tinged with sexism.

And I'll stop my overly long comment here. The rest of the post is just as bad (e.g. Her "women have power" example was pure speculative garbage). Anyway, reviewing the entire post would be a complete waste of time. If you don't think there is sexism on a large scale in the smash community (or any gaming community for that matter) then you are blind to reality.
 
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