~ Wolf's Match-Up's ~

[~ Gheb ~]

Just wanna point out how that i'm liking the way the Marth boards split their match up discussions into different threads. It keeps the board busy and it makes it easier to contribute information to older match up discussions.

I know. I'm going there too, once a day at least. I prefer one match-up thread for all characters though...

 

[Turbo Ether]

What would you think about getting this thread stickied, keeping it as an index with a synopsis for each character and matchup ratio (50:50 etc), while having seperate discussion threads and links to those threads within this index? This method would actually one-up the Marth boards format.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

...Maybe. The OP only provides the links to the discussion anyways...*requests sticky*

 

[Ishiey]

Gheb, maybe you should try to make a newer version of Kosk's guide. I mean, a lot of the descriptions there aren't as specific as they should be, we could combine matchups with ATs and post links to other useful threads. I doubt I'm the only one who thinks we should get a new guide too... But if you're not up to it, then we'll just get this stickied and work from there. I mean, our stickys are dead, so we should at least put something up there that will be somewhat useful or at least modern.

Mods, we're waiting

 

[Xsyven]

Sticky granted! Sorry I'm not in here as much as I should, guys. Don't be afraid to PM me with sticky/close requests!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Don't worry about that. As long as it gets stickied, it's alright.

I suggest we discuss MK for this week here. The coming match-up's will be discussed in other topics, that are linked in the OP here.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Hmm metaknight. His aerials are good so you gotta watchout and he can gimp your recovery. Im pretty sure the blaster can get through his tornado.

It probably is a 30-70 in MKs favor.

Also the falco matchup would be 25-75 for falco instead of 27-75

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, I fixed the numbers for the Falco match-up...

Well, it seems to be pretty agreed, that MK has a clear advantage here. There isn't very much to say here, so I suppose we can move on, with Snake...unless somebody has to tell us something about the MK match-up

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Hmm snake lets see. You can reflect his U-smash which can be good. I dunno why but I think this matchup is probably even or in wolfs favor. I dunno why but I feel that snake is one of wolfs better matchups.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I think Wolf vs MK is probably 65/35 or 70/30 MK's favor on general tournament stages. When it comes down to it, MK is faster, safer, has more priority overall, has a better recovery and can gimp yours if you're forced to use UpB. His only disadvantages are weight and lack of a projectile, so he has to approach.

Might as well make the new thread for the Snake matchup.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ Yes, the coming match-ups in the future, will all be in their own threads. This thread merely contains the links from now on

 

[Turbo Ether]

$20 says the vast majority of character boards will claim that Wolf is easy to gimp, and that their character beats Wolf or goes even with him at worst. Any takers?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

lol I know that. Ever ****er thinks he has the advantage...

 

[rodrigo_ssbb]

Does anyone has something about a match-up against Pit??

I main Wolf and my friend mains Pit. He's better than me, and I could use some tips...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Pit will be next

 

[Kookie]

Does anyone has something about a match-up against Pit??

I main Wolf and my friend mains Pit. He's better than me, and I could use some tips...

It depends on his own fighting style. If he's aggressive like most of the ones I play, let him come to you and attack first, and when he's open after missing, punish him. Hard. If you try to be too aggressive, he'll destroy you. That's how I handle Pit mains.

 

[rodrigo_ssbb]

Yes Kookie, very aggressive!
And that strategy is what I was starting to figure out myself by now... XD

 

[Mmac]

I know you already have things organized, but I made a Compact Universal Matchup Template for you to use, if you want to use it. It can be used as a quick reference. Just add in a title and Numbers yourself

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Thanks Mac, I've seen that already on the Yoshi and Peach boards

 

[PKNintendo]

This topic shows alot of hard work. Im proud of you dude. Visiting other bother boards, and really representing wolf. So far so good!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

lol thanks

 

[FrozenHobo]

the IC link is wrong. it goes to kirby.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

K, thx for the info. I fixed it

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I updated the OP:

Bowser -> Neutral (Bowser + Wolf boards agree)

Marth -> Neutral (Marth boards agree)

 

[Kashakunaki]

I know you already have things organized, but I made a Compact Universal Matchup Template for you to use, if you want to use it. It can be used as a quick reference. Just add in a title and Numbers yourself

What an awesome short!

Makes me sad how move doesn't have the advantage on ANY top tier character, though.

 

[snadmonkey]

I greatly disagree with several of these match-ups. For instance wolf > ROb and Wolf = GW, if not wolf > GW. I also feel wolf> pikachu, outside of his cg, pikachu should struggle greatly to ko wolf, since u can smash di downsmash and reflect thunder. I also believe wolf > both zelda and sheik, regardless of ftilt lock. Also wolf > than bowser easily, you've been filling ur head other wise is silly or really loves bowser. Also wolf > peach, she can't air dodge while floating and you can abuse this plus her low jump to no end with wolfs great shop game. Also wolf > ness, come on grab release ness to fsmash and downsmash all game, let me know how ness goes even with wolf. Also wolf > PT, really neutrl come on, only tough char is charizard cause of his ranged tilts. Wolf >Dk ez to spike and you can jump circles around him, bair and fair ****.

On other hand, i find kirby to have a slight advantage, maybe still in neutral range. Huge chaingrabs and the ever troublesome swallow. I also think DDD is more like 20:80 he is serisouly biggest crink in wolf's armor. I also give advantage to wario, the huge combo's he can do, and fact so many different kinds, make him major trouble, like down air to chomp to boosted upsmash to tech chase, ugh. Not to mention that wario is incredible in the air with his really short airdodge and quick air attacks.

Anyways my opinion, I don't really frequent the boards much anymore and I don't care if you think i'm a nub or whatever. The old timers know better, and I just felt like leaving some feedback on this thread tonight. Take it whatever way you want.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wow Snad, you should either post that in the "rediscussion thread" or at least give some reasons

 

[castorpollux]

Giving reasons doesn't help at all. I tried to reason with the wolf boards about why wolf>bowser, but it fell on deaf ears.

Anyways, now it's me, kash, and snad who all firmly believe that wolf beats bowser. Does there really need to be a reason?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yes, there needs to be a reason. You didn't give any real arguments. you just said "If there is a Bowser on the same level as Germ, Wolf would win more than 50%". that's it.

 

[castorpollux]

I said the wolf metagame beats the bowser metagame. Do you disagree?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't disagree but I doesn't matter. Metagame =/= match-up. just because few people touched Bowsers potential, doesn't mean he has the disadvantage. He can punish every single move and has a chaingrab.

 

[castorpollux]

metagame should = match-up. Nobody has even touched wolf's potential. I don't see how metagame =/= match-up. What should we compare instead? lvl 9 cpu vs lvl 9 cpu???? (sarcasm)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Comparing? It depends on how many times that match-up wa played IRL on a high level. If that's not the case, we need to look at how it looks on the paper. It's stupid but before the match-up is played enough we can't judge it in another way. So unless you have convincing arguments the match-up will not be changed

 

[castorpollux]

Lol how it looks on paper? How can one see 2 character's movesets and determine it's 50:50? Anything that can be predicted can be countered so pretty much every character is an even match-up on paper according to your arguments.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No. You need to take several things into account: Range, camping ability, priority, KO power, durability, ...

 

[castorpollux]

Sure bowser has stronger KO power and is more durable, but it's insanely hard for bowser to even land a kill move on wolf.

On paper, wolf can theoretically shine every single one of bowser's kill moves.

 

[Fugu15]

Why do you even bother =)

Most of the matchup discussions on the wolf boards are way off. It's already apparent that the majority of the players have very limited experience playing characters outside of the couple that their friends play.

We have kirby as even, ROB as a disadvantage (what? =)), Olimar as an advantage (please go play a perfect camp olimar and get back to me on that), the ice climbers as neutrals. Bowser as neutral.

Seems like snad is the only one who really knows what goes on.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why are you all so stupid? Is it so much harder to write an actual argument than some random bullshit? I have no problem with people trying to be accurate but n00bs like you (who the f*ck is fugu?) piss me off.

 

[castorpollux]

Okay calm down.

Anyways, Gheb, you play both bowser and wolf correct?

Let's just say theoretically, you were to play your bowser with your wolf. Would it really be 50:50?

Arguments that support the concept that bowser is evenly matched with wolf aren't actual arguments. You can't say that theoretically bowser can do this against wolf or that against wolf (especially if they don't do it successfully enough in real life). The metagame should be the only factor in deciding these match-ups because it's the only real CONCRETE evidence. Sure there is a small sample size, but I feel it's better than speculating what a great bowser can or can't do against a great wolf. I'm not saying that bowser won't ever be an even match with wolf. Match-ups can change when the metagame evolves. But currently, wolf's meta-game beats bowsers meta-game, and thus, the match-up between the two should currently be in wolf's favor. If not, at least don't say they are evenly matched caz I feel that's a big stretch. If wolf doesn't have an advantage over bowser.... who the hell does he have an advantage over? I'd personally rather face a bowser over a diddy kong, and yet you guys say wolf has the advantage over a diddy kong. It doesn't make sense to me at all.

I mean seriously.. which would you want to play for money... forte's bowser (or whoever is the best bowser) or ninjalink's diddy.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Bowser isn't even listed as 50:50 o_0
And yeah, I'd rather face a good Diddy, than a good Bowser, 'cuz Diddy doesn't kill me before 100% and he doesn't camp so gay. He also doesn't take 200%+ to be KOed.

I think the main problem is that people think it's a shame not to pwn Bowser.