Wolf Tips **LETS COMBINE OUR MATCH-UP KNOWLEDGE**

[castorpollux]

Anther has explicitly stated that he hates the wolf match up the most. Pretty sure pikachu doesn't **** wolf

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Pikachu was the second most named character in threads like "Wolfs unwinnable match-up". I don't think about Pika as a bad match-up at all but some people do for some reasons (like the CG)...

 

[_Kain_]

Pikachu was the second most named character in threads like "Wolfs unwinnable match-up". I don't think about Pika as a bad match-up at all but some people do for some reasons (like the CG)...

CG is partly the reason why the matchup is hard but its nowhere near unwinnable not to mention Pika's grab range is pretty sucky XD

 

[/~Dogma~\]

dash grab on ddd
wait to airbreak side b for the kill
garunteed everytime

 

[castorpollux]

dash grab on ddd
wait to airbreak side b for the kill
garunteed everytime

this only works on computers

 

[Seagull Joe]

best tips i can think of at the moment people probably havent said yet for d3 is go to the smallest horizantally shaped stages and make sure they have platforms.smashville probably would be best for wolf vs d3 cause u can stay on the moving platform. spam laser when he approaches.not get cg'd heavily.air attack him when he is near platform ur on tho make sure not to get in grab range.

also i have said this b4 but no one listened.on lylat the stage shifting causes d3's cg to throw u farther then his next grab giving u time to shine escape or jump.mostly works on the inclines.

 

[/~Dogma~\]

nope it works
u gotta do it real fast after he airbreaks
it doesnt work in training mode for some weird reason, but it works tested it multiple times

 

[castorpollux]

nope it works
u gotta do it real fast after he airbreaks
it doesnt work in training mode for some weird reason, but it works tested it multiple times

interesting... I'll test this out further. This could be really useful.

so in non training mode, a dash grab always forces an airbreak?




**edit


if they don't do anything... the DDD groundbreaks

 

[/~Dogma~\]

it is
you could suicide with it to kill at earlier percents but its important to be safe

ive been telling my friend who plays wolf for the last month that this works and in between a match where he was playing a good ddd i told him to do it and it worked beautifully
killed around 130% with no DI bc its really unexpected

but yea it works and its straight money

 

[castorpollux]

it is
you could suicide with it to kill at earlier percents but its important to be safe

ive been telling my friend who plays wolf for the last month that this works and in between a match where he was playing a good ddd i told him to do it and it worked beautifully
killed around 130% with no DI bc its really unexpected

but yea it works and its straight money

yeah but they have to airbreak, which isn't guaranteed at all

 

[Ishiey]

Castor, I tried it a while ago on Atomsk, preeeeeetty sure it doesn't work, maybe barely though.

Go to the chat btw, there are people (Asaph, Tekkie, and I) on :O

 

[JCav]

JJ and Ishiey, all i know is that roith is my friend and he said he tested this A LOT. so yesterday i was at a smashfest and i played a ddd and he told me to do it in a match and it worked.

someone there said that it has to be a dashgrab.

i dont really know anything about this but i tried it yesterday and i worked

 

[Ishiey]

Well, according to the air release sideB thread, it's possible, but the timing is very strict... I haven't gotten it to work yet, that's all.

Did you try it out later with your opponent attempting to airdodge? Man, if we had a framecount thing we'd know the answer for sure... Since the timing is so strict on DeDeDe, it might even be guaranteed...

 

[CO18]

You can't force Dedede to jump break so it wouldn't be that helpful at all.

 

[JCav]

i went to a tourney today and everytime ddd was in killing % i did it and it worked


it worked on dk and yoshi too

i was gonna mm lains ddd just to get it recorded but couldnt due to time, but it worked

 

[choice_brawler]

D3 only gets air released if he inputs anything thats up/jump. C-stick up, control stick up, y, or x, or anything else they have set to jump. If he doesnt input any of those he does not air release, but if he inputs any of that once, he is. I didn't test to see if the side b actually hit.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

D3 only gets air released if he inputs anything thats up/jump. C-stick up, control stick up, y, or x, or anything else they have set to jump. If he doesnt input any of those he does not air release, but if he inputs any of that once, he is. I didn't test to see if the side b actually hit.

See, that seems to unreliable and situational. I'd like to learn air release, but I don't see the point.

And CB, you should really go onto the chat more often. You seem like an intelligent member. I'm just here to try and make people smile.

 

[JCav]

you guys are right and i will willingly say that


however imagine this, get ddd to a certain percent and just pummel till he breaks and next grab pummel and the ddd will prolly try to get out of it faster to avoid the damage and that could be an opportunity

you dont have to do it, its just a suggestion...

 

[rvkevin]

What happens if you do a long illusion cancel after the grab release, would it be safe if they don't air release?

 

[JCav]

What happens if you do a long illusion cancel after the grab release, would it be safe if they don't air release?

illusion cancels with wolf do not have hitboxes


it would be a good idea though

 

[_Kain_]

the thing with air releases is u have to mindgame them but i'd rather jus stick to the pummel to dthrow its much safer since like everyone i try to grab release never falls for it lol

 

[JCav]

its just such a good knockout move id hate to pass it up when i have the chance

 

[_Kain_]

its just such a good knockout move id hate to pass it up when i have the chance

o hell yeah if u get it then take full advantage of it lol i jus think it can be pretty risky

 

[Ishiey]

What happens if you do a long illusion cancel after the grab release, would it be safe if they don't air release?

No, they would have enough time to shieldgrab you or whatever. If they just stood there like morons though, the 'streak' hitbox still hits them for 3% depending on the cancel, I beleive.

Also, JJ told me you'd be in Jersey sometime, are you here yet?

 

[Alain]

JJ when do you tech the chain grab-> spike?
When youu are falling from spike or in the middle of the chain grab?

 

[Dynomite]

i newly picked up wolf. i know a person that i normally play that uses sheik, and i double with him a lot too. he always sais "let me take the wolf"

Sheik: can Ftilt lock you until like 70-90, dont be dumb. once u get hit with it smash DI but if the sheik is good he will follow up and ftilt u again> up smash. personally, ide stick with bairs and some fairs, but make sure to time it so you dont have landing lag. keep sheik in the air, not much she can do when up there, and is more of a threat in air then on ground.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Ok well me and JJ were discussion a few things and I found out new combos =D

With Wolf I only tested on a few characters so don't think this automatically works on everyone. Around 0-10% Wolf has a
-JC Fair + Dtilt(50-60% chance of trip) + Grab
-JC Fair + Utilt *if you see an airdodge which is very common after something like this grab them*
-Bthrow + Buffered Ftilt.
-Fthrow + Buffered D-tilt
This all works on DDD, Bowser, and DK from after 0-15% I haven't tested it on lighter character yet.

Starting at 0%
JC Fair + Dtilt 17%
JC Fair + Dtilt trip + Dthrow 29%
JC Fair + Utilt 21%
JC Fair + Utilt + Dthrow 33%
Bthrow + Buffered Ftilt 12%-15%
Fthrow + Buffered Dtilt 13%
Fthrow + Buffered Dtilt trip + Dthrow 25%

 

[Ishiey]

Are these fair/bthrow things for real?... Interesting. The second half, they only work on those three characters at 0?

Also for fthrow to buffered dtilt, I tried it before and I think it works on Wario as well. I'll edit all of this into the combo thread... someday...

 

[Seagull Joe]

If you backthrow an opponent at low percents on bf they usually end up on platform which can lead up to using a fair, grounded uair, or uair.

 

[Semifer]

Are these fair/bthrow things for real?... Interesting. The second half, they only work on those three characters at 0?

Also for fthrow to buffered dtilt, I tried it before and I think it works on Wario as well. I'll edit all of this into the combo thread... someday...

No it doesn't work for Wario, he can DI away so that the Dtilt doesn't reach him.
And xzax, that Bthrow thing is really interesting, gonna try that out.
But what do you mean with JC Fair? I only know AC (auto canceled) Fair, and I tested the combos you wrote there, but they doesn't work, you should be able to jump out of it.
Fthrow > Dtilt > grab does not work as well, cause after the Dtilt the opp is too far away so that he can roll away before you get the grab, but stutter step Fsmash and a very good buffered Dacus work (Dacus at least against DDD).

 

[castorpollux]

"Warning! The last reply to this thread was posted over two months ago. Please make sure you are not unnecessarily bumping this thread before replying."

RESURRECTION!!!!!

 

[Arrows]

Lol JJ....

Pikachu: Bait those dsmashes, if you bait a dsmash, you have a hit.
Backair ***** their bums.
After 50%, don't worry about the cg
beware of their random airial combos at the beginning. nair-nair hurts.

 

[Ishiey]

This is probably one of the mmost useful threads we have.

For Kirby, I'd mention the throw combos. To get out of the Gonzo combo, SDI the uair and DJ away. For dthrow > utilt, the Kirby will probably predict a shine on the way down after the second dthrow and shieldgrab, so you're probably better off trying to DJ away (unless they catch you with more utilts, in which case I guess all you can do is SDI).

 

[Ishiey]

For D3, there are many different endings for the CG, dtilt is what he'll most likely use if he brings you to the ledge so be ready to DI that. Fsmash is guaranteed if he gets you with BSL lag iirc, and he might also use it if he predict a spotdodge or a jump after CGing you offstage. Ftilt is guaranteed onstage iirc. Dash attack might be guaranteed with BSL lag, I'm not sure about that, but it will destroy you if you spotdodge.

For ROB, your blaster will stop his gyro if he shoots it at you.

For Lucario, shine offstage > buffered jumpshine > upB to ledge is a stock if he's too far away to curve it onto the stage.

For TL, PSing his projectiles helps a lot. Walk > PS is a good approach, or just stand there and PS everything to try and force an approach (most likely zair). You can SH fair to catch bombs that bounce off of your shield if you want. Also, I've shine gimped TL quite a few times, it can catch him out of his tether recovery but is still a bit risky.

For Luigi, he cannot guarantee jab > upB on you, so shield if you expect it at higher %s.

For Sheik, here's stuff on ftilt lock:

You can get behind her after one ftilt at about the time she's going to upsmash you.

If you're below about -25ish% you can just hold down and towards Sheik and shield. At around 25-50ish% Sheik can begin the tilt lock and lock you in place until death. The higher the percent you're at, the more often Sheik has to turn around to keep the lock going. I believe it's because there's more knockback and so it'll send you up and towards her more. At around 50ish%+ she can't tilt lock you anymore. Her forward tilt will have too much knockback, undiminished.

The fastest way (I think) to get out is to either shield if you're at low enough a percent, or DI up and towards her head and footstool at the correct time. It helps a bit if you can keep mixing up your DI as you're getting locked- make her turn around more often.

For Ike, if they ever try to recover with sideB, jump in front of them to stop their recovery (you can airdodge as well).

For Charizard, jab lock isn't really too common or reliable at all, it's much more of an issue with Squirtle (who can also utilt>uair you to like 50% or something? Yeah not fun). If Charizard is trying to edgeguard with firebreath, our upB goes through it iirc. The shards from rock smash are reflectible, and well spaced bairs/fairs are usually safe from the counter effect and can hit through the rock.

For Yoshi, his shield really limits his OoS options, so this makes stuff like ftilt safer on shield (lol).

For Jigglypuff, if she air breaks you can get a fair or uair on her, fair kills off the top at like 110 or something fresh on FD. Only useful if you dashgrab her to a ledge though.

For Ganon, you can uair him when he releases you from his upB at around 70% iirc. Or (lol) upB him, I've seen someone sideB spike Ganon after it before too, so... yeah.

 

[Laem]

G&W: if u get hit by bair, DI up and shine... works way too well, u can even follow up from there.

Any1 else thinking the OP needs updating?

 

[castorpollux]

I'll update it as soon as I take finsih my midterm today

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Against ZSS, if she uses the side-B on a ground level try to powershield it and then punish her.

Also there's like a gap in the hitbox partway through of her side-b.

 

[Ishiey]

Got a lot of Lucas playtime today. **** AC nair, that thing is annoying, I think it might actually be unpunishable. Uhhh, you can punish a lot of things with fsmash, grab release > fsmash is great until they learn to DI out You can really juggle him well, air battles should go to Wolf. Tech his FH dair unless you want him to dtilt lock you on the way back down and kill you with fsmash. Recover carefully, it's not too hard but Lucas can punish a bad recovery really well. If he breaks close to you for some reason, you can dsmash.

Fox can shinespike us out of our upB, pretty gay. You can FF and shield through his utilt string at low %s. Don't get dair'd, SDI out of fair.

Marth, idk maybe Atomsk was just ****ing up a lot, but stand a fsmash distance away on the ledge and laugh. If he does a regular get-up, you can fsmash; if he jumps go ahead and juggle him (Marth is also quite vulnerable to juggles); if he does anything else just wait and punish. Idk man, it worked freakishly well, try it out and tell me how it goes.

GW, since he's light, he travels a long distance before being able to tech a dthrow. This makes it easy to get him offstage with a dthrow even when you're not right at the ledge, and at high enough %s it really is a stock O.o

Remember to reword my crap

 

[Seagull Joe]

Very useful thread I felt needed to be bumped.

 

[castorpollux]

ishieymoro, i think seagull is volunteering to take over this thread