Wolf Competitive Discussion - Everyone mains Wolf now lol

J0eyboi

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Does anybody know if Fire Wolf kills? I know it probably won’t be useful but I’m curious.
It absolutely does. At stupid early percents, too. You might be able to use it to cover airdodge similar to how Fox uses Fire Fox in Smash 4, because you can angle it to cover whatever direction they airdodge in.
 

Idon

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Does anybody know if Fire Wolf kills? I know it probably won’t be useful but I’m curious.
Saw on a twitter that it did kill.
On the flip side though, it was aimed directly up while near the edge of FD which shot it to the right, so... it's there, but at the same time it may not be entirely useful.
 
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It absolutely does. At stupid early percents, too. You might be able to use it to cover airdodge similar to how Fox uses Fire Fox in Smash 4, because you can angle it to cover whatever direction they airdodge in.
Saw on a twitter that it did kill.
On the flip side though, it was aimed directly up while near the edge of FD which shot it to the right, so... it's there, but at the same time it may not be entirely useful.
Ooh, this excites me. Definitely going to try and go for jank kills with it despite my logic and better judgement telling me otherwise.
 

JosePollo

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The only moves in Wolf's arsenal that don't have true kill power are jabs, dtilt, f/up/dthrow, blaster, and shine. Everything else is capable of killing reliably in the right situation
 
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Chiroz

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What would you say are his go-to kill moves? Ftilt and Dsmash?
U-Tilt, B-Air, B-Throw and U-Air are the moves landing the most kills for me in that order, although admitedly I am used to not throwing too many smashes and maybe I should dince Wolf’s F-Smash is safe.

Up-B is reallt good for catching air dodges which are actually stupid good in this game, lol.
 

Emperor Puma

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Hey, so I saw something interesting in a video, but I can't find it anymore. Can anyone tell me if the startup to fire wolf has any armor or invincible qualities on it? I SWEAR I saw it eat a gannon Fair and keep going. Just on the little pause he does before he launches.
 

GMABreak

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His bair is looking especially ridiculous in term of damage and knockback. I'm not sure how heavy little mac is but he sure isn't a lightweight and it killed him at 90% from the middle of the stage.

 

3picwo3z

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shine>flash is not a true combo but, it cannot be di'd out of. It connects at 100 to 108 for the spike hit box (kill), 109 to 126 for the horizontal launch (also kill). I didn't test angled down or up for these percents and it tested with computer di. I don't think it will be optimal though. Still a flashy combo.
Edit: Was testing this on Snake... with mario the percents for spiking is 92 to 93 (no angle) and 94 to 102 (upward angle)
 
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Souly

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So far, I’ve felt certain moves like Wolf’s Fsmash and occasionally his grab lack the range to be effective against certain characters. I really think he’s mid-tier right now, It seems he doesn’t have enough priority to outmatch top-tiers imho. I roughly have about 4 hours of match experience with him so I wouldn’t say I’m an expert or have figured him out. But I think a couple of improvements (old Fsmash?) turns Wolf into a top tier. Curious to see what else you guys noticed.

Regardless his kill power it’s ridiculous.

Update: I just figured out Dsmash really helps make up for the bad range on Fsmash
 
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Garo

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Any tips on using f-air? The angle it sends at feels awkward to me.

I've generally been having trouble judging the range of some normals. F-smash is a given, but did other moves receive a range nerf?

Specials feel really good. I've been getting a lot of mileage out of Blaster and Up-B especially.
 

MERPIS

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Any tips on using f-air? The angle it sends at feels awkward to me.
Fastfall it as you go to use it, it can link into chains of itself and up air for some ridiculous combos or flash/dair for stupidly early kills.

Also this character might be top tier, his combos are so damn meaty and he can kill you so bloody well and early off of a ridiculously safe move, this character is just safe in general, and with his fox tier frame data too.
 
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3picwo3z

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Any tips on using f-air? The angle it sends at feels awkward to me.

I've generally been having trouble judging the range of some normals. F-smash is a given, but did other moves receive a range nerf?

Specials feel really good. I've been getting a lot of mileage out of Blaster and Up-B especially.
Some moves did, but some are still ridiculous. Fair should be used like Sheik. It's a very good spacing option and doesn't have much landing lag. Watch Wizzy, play for some advice some more advice on using fair in this vid, https://youtu.be/E5KkUPzcuJk?t=452.
 

J0eyboi

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Wolf's Bair autocancels in a SHFF (frame 19+), which is pretty good for a move with as much kill power as it.
 

Reth92

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not sure if anyone knows it yet, but I’m pretty sure upthrow -> upair is a guaranteed combo from 0 -60 % on a vast majority of the cast. It does around 21% fresh and puts the opponent in a bad situation
 

MERPIS

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speaking of throw combos, at really really low percents on heavies ad big characters, you can get dthrow into ftilt, and later you can get dthrow into dash attack, depending on what part of the move you hit you can get an uptilt after if you land the one that launches vertically.
 

Reth92

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speaking of throw combos, at really really low percents on heavies ad big characters, you can get dthrow into ftilt, and later you can get dthrow into dash attack, depending on what part of the move you hit you can get an uptilt after if you land the one that launches vertically.
From what I’ve seen of wizzy’s replays, dthrow -> dash attack also works on a vast % range. By alternating throw combos, it can mess up the opponents DI too.
Tbh I’m rly glad wolf has a decent punish game, because it’s so hard to get a decent hit in with some matchups, like marth
 

MERPIS

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Wolf's neutral is a lot better than I'd given him credit for while watching the demo players use him. I'm really happy I was wrong about him.
Dude wolfs neutral is legit one of the best in the game possibly top 3
 

Forblazen

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U-Tilt, B-Air, B-Throw and U-Air are the moves landing the most kills for me in that order, although admitedly I am used to not throwing too many smashes and maybe I should dince Wolf’s F-Smash is safe.

Up-B is reallt good for catching air dodges which are actually stupid good in this game, lol.
how do you kill out of utilt?
 
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Wolf feels amazing. I love his playstyle but I find myself having trouble getting solid hits on characters like Simon. Wolf's ridiculous air game and neutrals just seem to fall flat against characters with really big range. Any tips on how to get around that?
 

MERPIS

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Wolf feels amazing. I love his playstyle but I find myself having trouble getting solid hits on characters like Simon. Wolf's ridiculous air game and neutrals just seem to fall flat against characters with really big range. Any tips on how to get around that?
Lasers kill almost any ranged character not named meta knight. Also aerial combos nuke most of them
 

shinyRuby

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Wolf feels amazing. I love his playstyle but I find myself having trouble getting solid hits on characters like Simon. Wolf's ridiculous air game and neutrals just seem to fall flat against characters with really big range. Any tips on how to get around that?
Hi, you can use Fair against Belmont's axe and personally i camp with the blaster, reflect holly water, and punish when i can, push them on the ledge, dont't let them comeback with Nair. it's very very basic yet and might not work every single time, but you get the idea.
 
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God do I love his U-smash, the pull range on it is pretty big, I've been catching people standing from ledge from the underside edge of a BF platform.

I really wish you could go just a BIT deeper offstage, so many easy kills just out of reach...
 

Coccinelle

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The previous Wolf iteration in SSB was pretty vulnerable to chain throws (no longer an issue though) and suffered from a very poor recovery. In your opinion, to what extent has he been buffed in ultimate, especially regarding recovery?
In what tier do you think he may end up?
 
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MERPIS

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The previous Wolf iteration in SSB was pretty vulnerable to chain throws (no longer an issue though) and suffered from a very poor recovery. In your opinion, to what extent has he been buffed in ultimate, especially regarding recovery?
In what tier do you think he may end up?
I think he’s going to be top tier, he’s basically sheik with MK’s fsmash
 

Ishiey

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Okay, it's been just about a full week and I've probably racked up about 24h of matches using Wolf against other legacy competitive Smashers. This character is really really good. Short summary of my more general thoughts:

- Our options out of dash are insane. The mixups available are very strong: projectile camp, pressure, burst attack, whiff punish, everything. So good.
- Recovering with sideB when your opponent hasn't committed to anything is not wise, it's super easy to hit Wolf before the hitbox comes out.
- Edgeguarding with nair is solid (match-up pending), Wolf can go surprisingly deep despite a very meh recovery. Holding jump to buffer helps tremendously.
- Almost all of our moves start killing around 150%??? Besides like, fair/dtilt/jab/dair. Also atm I think dair is probably our worst move.
- Nair is an amazing all-purpose tool on-stage, and opens up lots of ways for us to put opponents where we want them while tacking on good damage.

Honestly I feel like I've barely been using sideB as a hit/kill confirm out of fair/nair/dthrow/shine compared to using it for landing traps and whatnot lol. I want to do more testing first to see how reliably it combos vs DI as well as kill %s because my uncertainty is only making my success rate worse.
 

3picwo3z

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Okay, it's been just about a full week and I've probably racked up about 24h of matches using Wolf against other legacy competitive Smashers. This character is really really good. Short summary of my more general thoughts:

- Our options out of dash are insane. The mixups available are very strong: projectile camp, pressure, burst attack, whiff punish, everything. So good.
- Recovering with sideB when your opponent hasn't committed to anything is not wise, it's super easy to hit Wolf before the hitbox comes out.
- Edgeguarding with nair is solid (match-up pending), Wolf can go surprisingly deep despite a very meh recovery. Holding jump to buffer helps tremendously.
- Almost all of our moves start killing around 150%??? Besides like, fair/dtilt/jab/dair. Also atm I think dair is probably our worst move.
- Nair is an amazing all-purpose tool on-stage, and opens up lots of ways for us to put opponents where we want them while tacking on good damage.

Honestly I feel like I've barely been using sideB as a hit/kill confirm out of fair/nair/dthrow/shine compared to using it for landing traps and whatnot lol. I want to do more testing first to see how reliably it combos vs DI as well as kill %s because my uncertainty is only making my success rate worse.
I feel that sideb is not a good kill option because of how vulnerable you are after it. Fishing for bair and smashes are the best way to get kills, imo. Thanks for the tips though.
 

Sean²

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The previous Wolf iteration in SSB was pretty vulnerable to chain throws (no longer an issue though) and suffered from a very poor recovery. In your opinion, to what extent has he been buffed in ultimate, especially regarding recovery?
In what tier do you think he may end up?
I always thought the worst part of his recovery in Brawl was that the window for his up B to snap to the ledge was a lot smaller than a lot of characters when going straight up from below the stage. Other than that it wasn't horrible, true stage scarring added more recovery options than what he has now imo.

And I think he's going to be high A tier - at the least. His biggest weakness right now is his recovery, but who's going to attempt to challenge that offstage? Up B has some nutty knockback on it and seems fairly safe when side-b isn't feasable, I haven't had too many issues with it with the exception of some projectiles. Add directional airdodge and you have three decent options. But if you're KOing your opponent before they even have a chance to get you in the offstage position, who cares?
 

Rocketjay8

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I always thought the worst part of his recovery in Brawl was that the window for his up B to snap to the ledge was a lot smaller than a lot of characters when going straight up from below the stage. Other than that it wasn't horrible, true stage scarring added more recovery options than what he has now imo.

And I think he's going to be high A tier - at the least. His biggest weakness right now is his recovery, but who's going to attempt to challenge that offstage? Up B has some nutty knockback on it and seems fairly safe when side-b isn't feasable, I haven't had too many issues with it with the exception of some projectiles. Add directional airdodge and you have three decent options. But if you're KOing your opponent before they even have a chance to get you in the offstage position, who cares?
If they snipe him with projectiles (pit's arrows, link's remote bombs) he's screwed.
 

Sean²

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If they snipe him with projectiles (pit's arrows, link's remote bombs) he's screwed.
Yup. I mentioned projectiles - the Links and the Belmont boys have been the biggest issues for me offstage. I still have yet to fight against a big chunk of the cast with Wolf so not sure what all projectiles are the biggest issues. I have speculations, but haven't experienced of the effect of something fairly weak like Mario's fireballs.
 
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https://textuploader.com/debsq

I put together a list for Dthrow Side B stuff, didn't do every character but did do the heaviest, average, and lightest per weight range. Tested two sets of DI for it, posted to discord as well. If there's anything specific like a character to try it on let me know and I'll see if I can get my friends to let me test it again.
 

3picwo3z

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https://textuploader.com/debsq

I put together a list for Dthrow Side B stuff, didn't do every character but did do the heaviest, average, and lightest per weight range. Tested two sets of DI for it, posted to discord as well. If there's anything specific like a character to try it on let me know and I'll see if I can get my friends to let me test it again.
This is awesome. Do you mind doing inkling, as it seems to be one of the more popular characters in the game right now (as well as one of the best)?
 

Sean²

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Even though fair is turning into the quintessential neutral move for Wolf, I love nair so much. I get so much mileage out of it. Late hit nairs (that sometimes trip!) into ftilt, dtilt, dash attack, dsmash. Probably the safest move for him to edgeguard with offstage other than his blaster. Fantastic emergency option at close range.
 
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