Wolf Competitive Discussion - Everyone mains Wolf now lol

[MERPIS]

fair looks ridiculous
Also could you give us footage of bthrow killing?
Oh and, does up air have any decent combo potential?

 

[Chibi-Chan]

fair looks ridiculous
Also could you give us footage of bthrow killing?
Oh and, does up air have any decent combo potential?

Excuse the trash quality of my recording, but had to do it alone with my phone.

Proof that Wolf Backthrow can KO at acceptable percent. pic.twitter.com/zY34jyZkTZ

— Chibi Chan (@chibichannya) November 28, 2018

Wolf's Upthrow has too much recovery to combo it in the air, but little landing lag. Falling Uair can combo into pretty much anything, but the hitbox isn't too good vs short opponents. Can rarely get it vs Ness. Fair is a lot better combo starter since it combos into itself if you FF it.

 

[J0eyboi]

That crack in your switch physically pains me.

That's neither my switch nor my footage. I found it through a link on reddit, I have no idea where it came from initially but I'd guess Twitter. Never mind, it was from a Melee player streaming on Facebook apparently. The crack in the switch pisses me off too.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I just got Downthrow off the stage into sideB (angled down) true combo. It kills both characters but very sylish. Did it against Ness at 70%.
Works on-stage too, but not deadly then. Angling of sideB will depend on DI, so it's a dumb gamble.

 

[MERPIS]

Excuse the trash quality of my recording, but had to do it alone with my phone.

Proof that Wolf Backthrow can KO at acceptable percent. pic.twitter.com/zY34jyZkTZ

— Chibi Chan (@chibichannya) November 28, 2018

Wolf's Upthrow has too much recovery to combo it in the air, but little landing lag. Falling Uair can combo into pretty much anything, but the hitbox isn't too good vs short opponents. Can rarely get it vs Ness. Fair is a lot better combo starter since it combos into itself if you FF it.

Wait, so is that with good DI?
Oh, and what's the biggest extent of fair combos? Damage wise or kill power I guess

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Wait, so is that with good DI?
Oh, and what's the biggest extent of fair combos? Damage wise or kill power I guess

Not much with Fair, Wolf doesn't seem super combo-friendly. Fair into Fair is one! Low %s you can do Downthrow, dash attack, fair I guess. He doesn't move fast enough in the air to chase after connecting any hit.

 

[MERPIS]

Not much with Fair, Wolf doesn't seem super combo-friendly. Fair into Fair is one! Low %s you can do Downthrow, dash attack, fair I guess. He doesn't move fast enough in the air to chase after connecting any hit.

Well I saw that he got that 0-50 or so on snake at mid percents, I think he needs more labbing fair seems a lot like sheiks fair
This is kind of off topic of wolf but are you able to test for Meta knight? There's a lot of things I wanna test out but can't do it myself

 

[IncomingGhost]

Downthrow into dash attack is the only one I could get. At early percents it leads into sweetspot dash attack which leads to further stuff. Later it only leads into late hit which doesn{t combo into anything.

https://twitter.com/BaSiC_Poi/status/1067324119631314944

I don't know how reliable dthrow > side-b is, but that's a scary confirm

 

[Chibi-Chan]

https://twitter.com/BaSiC_Poi/status/1067324119631314944

I don't know how reliable dthrow > side-b is, but that's a scary confirm

Got it at 70% by angling sideB down. Enemy may be able to DI out and the cost of guessing wrong is dying so.... Dunno.

I didn't say anything about Fair being like Sheik's because the vid in the tweet is not a true combo.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Repost from Falco thread where I did some Spacie Bair research.

For comparison. Wolf's Bair is slower than Falco's by a bit, as I can't SHFF it super consistently, often landing before the hitbox is out. It has a tipper hitbox that does 15.3% and KOes at 78%!!! under the same test as Falco's Bair KOing at 89%, easily KOes midstage at over 100%.
There are 2 sourspots an 11.2% one for hitting close that is nothing special.
Then there is a third hitbox that does 13% somewhere in the middle that it's hard to get. This one is decently strong, but doesn't KO til over 95% at the ledge/offstage.

Falco's Bair damage depends only on the timing you hit with, entire hitbox has the same power (13.2% early and 7.1% late). Wolf's Bair has no late hitbox, the move does nothing if you touch them with the late part of the animation.

As a bonus, Fox's Bair comes out quite fast, maybe faster than Falco's this time (or the same), deals 13.2% no matter what and won't KO til 115% on the ledge.

EDIT: These are all with the short-hop damage penalty. This means Wolf's Bair can KO even earlier than this after a full-hop or off-stage. Probably one of the best Bairs in the game for this if you can sweetspot it.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

But...but...

This shit is so fun lmao pic.twitter.com/dN4OUXe55K

— Xyro (@ABB_Xyro) November 29, 2018

 

[MERPIS]

I love how this character is now “lands a sheik fair at 40% and wins the game”

Can some one post a little compilation or a run down of what people have posted on twitter about wolf’s stuff?

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I love how this character is now “lands a sheik fair at 40% and wins the game”

Can some one post a little compilation or a run down of what people have posted on twitter about wolf’s stuff?

More like: Land sweetspot Bair at 80% and you get a KO. That move is insanely strong, specially without the SH penalty. Hit's with the power of most smash attacks!

His Fair stuff is really cool if you can land in-between the hits, but more than 2 is probably never a true combo. Still, with the weka defensive mechanics of this game, sometimes airdodge is simply not an option to get out of em. Wolf has enough speed to chase the dodge attempts and the options to punish hard, so that's ultimate gonna be why this character is good.

 

[Zenos]

More like: Land sweetspot Bair at 80% and you get a KO. That move is insanely strong, specially without the SH penalty. Hit's with the power of most smash attacks!

His Fair stuff is really cool if you can land in-between the hits, but more than 2 is probably never a true combo. Still, with the weka defensive mechanics of this game, sometimes airdodge is simply not an option to get out of em. Wolf has enough speed to chase the dodge attempts and the options to punish hard, so that's ultimate gonna be why this character is good.

I've seen nair > dtilt for Wolf once or twice, and I think might help in a lot of situations where he needs to chase.

Does Wolf's nair have a weaker late hit perhaps? Maybe it still combos into dtilt on grounded opponents for a chance of tripping?

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Weak nair does combo into Dtilt if you fast-fall. D-tilt, however outside of extremely low %s, D-tilt sends them pretty far away (trips at low%). So you might be better off doing Utilt, Dash attack or Ftilt (All true combo). It's very hard to get weak Nair on a short-hop, but it is a decent combo starter. Strong Nair has strong knockback so it isn't a viable combo starter for very long.

EDIT: I really miss Project:M Nair.

 

[MERPIS]

More like: Land sweetspot Bair at 80% and you get a KO. That move is insanely strong, specially without the SH penalty. Hit's with the power of most smash attacks!

His Fair stuff is really cool if you can land in-between the hits, but more than 2 is probably never a true combo. Still, with the weka defensive mechanics of this game, sometimes airdodge is simply not an option to get out of em. Wolf has enough speed to chase the dodge attempts and the options to punish hard, so that's ultimate gonna be why this character is good.

No just stop bair is slow

 

[Zenos]

Weak nair does combo into Dtilt if you fast-fall. D-tilt, however outside of extremely low %s, D-tilt sends them pretty far away (trips at low%). So you might be better off doing Utilt, Dash attack or Ftilt (All true combo). It's very hard to get weak Nair on a short-hop, but it is a decent combo starter. Strong Nair has strong knockback so it isn't a viable combo starter for very long.

EDIT: I really miss Project:M Nair.

I see. Guess Wolf will be harder to get combos with because of the nature of his moves?

Another one I was curious about: reverse hit of fastfall up air? Can you get anything out of that? I was thinking of things like back air at potential kill %.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I see. Guess Wolf will be harder to get combos with because of the nature of his moves?

Another one I was curious about: reverse hit of fastfall up air? Can you get anything out of that? I was thinking of things like back air at potential kill %.

Upair does NOT hit well backwards. In fact, it seems to hit a bitbetter forward. There is some hitbox in Wolf's body though, so you can backwards Upair by getting in really deep. You can get any aerial besides Dair after it at most percents. Full hop sweespot Bair is kinda hard to get from it (since it's slow), but it will KO if you start this at like 80%. If you did this on a platform, Upair is the easier kill move. This will stop working at around 100%+ depending on char.

 

[Zenos]

Upair does NOT hit well backwards. In fact, it seems to hit a bitbetter forward. There is some hitbox in Wolf's body though, so you can backwards Upair by getting in really deep. You can get any aerial besides Dair after it at most percents. Full hop sweespot Bair is kinda hard to get from it (since it's slow), but it will KO if you start this at like 80%. If you did this on a platform, Upair is the easier kill move. This will stop working at around 100%+ depending on char.

Oof, was really hoping this wasn't the case. Guess it's fine if we can get confirms like this at all though.

Does up tilt really not lead to any real combos? I'm surprised if so, it looks quite fast.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Oof, was really hoping this wasn't the case. Guess it's fine if we can get confirms like this at all though.

Does up tilt really not lead to any real combos? I'm surprised if so, it looks quite fast.

It does, but barely. Uptilt has too much knockback and is slow. I can sometimes get Fair from it, but overall it's not gonna be a good combo tool. If you hit someone through a platform they're just too high to catch up.

 

[J0eyboi]

Weak nair does combo into Dtilt if you fast-fall. D-tilt, however outside of extremely low %s, D-tilt sends them pretty far away (trips at low%). So you might be better off doing Utilt, Dash attack or Ftilt (All true combo). It's very hard to get weak Nair on a short-hop, but it is a decent combo starter. Strong Nair has strong knockback so it isn't a viable combo starter for very long.

I think your best option at low %s off weak Nair may be Shine. I've mentioned in the frame data thread that it seems to have set knockback and is able to combo into fair, uair, and Nair on characters below ~100 weight. As such, if it's possible to get guaranteed follow-ups off SHAC Fair or SHFF Fair, which seems to be the case assuming training mode is reliable this game (admittedly a shaky assumption), weak Nair could be converted into a lot of damage. You'll likely have to hit pretty close to your body for Nair>Shine to work, though.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I think your best option at low %s off weak Nair may be Shine. I've mentioned in the frame data thread that it seems to have set knockback and is able to combo into fair, uair, and Nair on characters below ~100 weight. As such, if it's possible to get guaranteed follow-ups off SHAC Fair or SHFF Fair, which seems to be the case assuming training mode is reliable this game (admittedly a shaky assumption), weak Nair could be converted into a lot of damage. You'll likely have to hit pretty close to your body for Nair>Shine to work, though.

Weak Nair does have some knockback, dunno if you can get shine after unless very low %s, but you can usually get his great dash attack.
Also sad Shine doesn't stall you in the air, it seems kinda bad, but better than Falco's I guess.

 

[Zenos]

Weak Nair does have some knockback, dunno if you can get shine after unless very low %s, but you can usually get his great dash attack.
Also sad Shine doesn't stall you in the air, it seems kinda bad, but better than Falco's I guess.

Oh, remembered one more thing.

How does Wolf benefit from this mechanic: https://gfycat.com/LongFamousHorseshoecrab

And if you're not sure how to do it, this shows it more in-depth.

 

[MERPIS]

Oh, remembered one more thing.

How does Wolf benefit from this mechanic: https://gfycat.com/LongFamousHorseshoecrab

And if you're not sure how to do it, this shows it more in-depth.

Run up ftilt is stupid good

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Oh, remembered one more thing.

How does Wolf benefit from this mechanic: https://gfycat.com/LongFamousHorseshoecrab

And if you're not sure how to do it, this shows it more in-depth.

I really like his F-tilt, but mostly because it looks really cool. I mean, VERY COOL! I guess jab combo is fine too.
His other tilts aren't that great, so might as well.

 

[Ffamran]

No just stop bair is slow

It hits hard and does good damage. At this point, Bair seems like an aerial Smash if that makes any sense. It trades the ability to charge for the ability to freely move and probably low recovery compared to most Smashes in general. A 13 frame startup isn't that slow; it's the same startup as Sonic's Bair where Sonic's much faster on the ground, but Wolf's faster in the air. The way the move hits and what it does for the character can also make the startup be not as much of a problem as there are character like Greninja and Peach who were able to work aerials as slow or slower than frame 13 into their gameplay. Smash 4 Greninja's and Peach's Fair are frame 16 for instance and don't have the same range or coverage as Ike's frame 12 Fair, Link's frame 16 Fair, or Mewtwo's frame 13 Bair. Also, if people find out ways to confirm Bair, then startup won't matter when for those setups, Bair should always work.

It does, but barely. Uptilt has too much knockback and is slow. I can sometimes get Fair from it, but overall it's not gonna be a good combo tool. If you hit someone through a platform they're just too high to catch up.

Brawl Wolf's Utilt had four different hitboxes depending on where you hit with it where it even has a tipper hitbox with 120 growth instead of 115 growth like the other hitboxes and one hitbox that had a tighter 88 degree hit angle instead of 80. It was frame 7 on startup which isn't slow or fast and 25 recovery frames which is pretty normal.

The frame data thread for Ultimate Wolf says it has the same total frames where if it has the same 5 active frames, 7-11, then it would also have the same 25 recovery frames. Also, it has an 80 degree hit angle and at least two known hitboxes that do 10.5% and 8%.

Anyway, considering Wolf doesn't jump that high and we don't know its knockback, it does make sense for Wolf not to be able to follow up that easily if Utilt is popping people up and high enough. It still could work well as an anti-air and platform poke with how it hits and the opponent is still going to be in the air if they're hit, so they'll have to deal with landing somehow against him. Sure, he's not fast, but he hits hard and his air speed is good, so he could probably still follow the opponent if he jumps and they try to move away from him.

Speaking of which, could you check if Wolf's Up Smash has invincibility? Leg invincibility would make his Up Smash an even better anti-air. The start of it low profiles Wolf and the end has him shooting upward with a hitbox which if his legs are invincible would make it even easier for him to challenge aerial approaches. It doesn't look like it has great horizontal range, but the vertical range and low profile start makes it look like it could be a good anti-air. That and it looks sexy.

Also sad Shine doesn't stall you in the air, it seems kinda bad, but better than Falco's I guess.

As a reflect, Falco's is pretty good when it reflects away from Falco. If you can call out when someone with a strong projectile like Samus is about to fire, you can possibly put the reflector right in front of them and they would have no way to deal with that other than get hit. Some of those characters have low enough recovery where reflecting a projectile can get you killed instead as either they have enough time to reflect it back during your character's recovery or they can respond to it in a different way. Pointblank reflects are also just fun. Charged projectile and boom! it explodes in their face instead of going anywhere.

The other thing is that I used Falco's Reflector as a poke or weird long-ranged follow-up sometimes in Smash 4. It's dangerous because of its 37 recovery frames and low knockback, but it can catch people off guard and if they're on the ground, possibly trip them to throw them off even more. The Falco Discord noted that its total frames might have been reduced in Ultimate. Their FAF listing for Reflector is 44 which is 7 less frames than in Smash 4 and Smash 4 Reflector had a lower FAF than Brawl Reflector. If Reflector has the same frame 5 startup and 10 active frames, then it would have 30 recovery frames. Not fast, but still better than 37.

 

[Ishiey]

Yeah that dashing tech is gonna make approaching with ftilt pretty nutty, especially now that Wolf can actually run
DownB not stalling in the air isn't bad, have you seen how it was used in Brawl? I'm more concerned with the new angle making it "bad" tbh.
*insert snarky comment about falling fair spam and parrying here*
Nair seems really good for setting up traps / additional pressure.
Bair seems less flexible but works as a nice kill combo out of falling fair (unsurprisingly)

Idk, all-in-all I'm pleasantly surprised by the changes they made to Wolf. He's quite differentiated from Brawl and built in a way that seems to work very well with the mechanics of Smash Ult. Seems like the character is getting lots of attention too... so we'll all need to be extra tricky to surprise our opponents :3

 

[Chibi-Chan]

It hits hard and does good damage. At this point, Bair seems like an aerial Smash if that makes any sense. It trades the ability to charge for the ability to freely move and probably low recovery compared to most Smashes in general. A 13 frame startup isn't that slow; it's the same startup as Sonic's Bair where Sonic's much faster on the ground, but Wolf's faster in the air. The way the move hits and what it does for the character can also make the startup be not as much of a problem as there are character like Greninja and Peach who were able to work aerials as slow or slower than frame 13 into their gameplay. Smash 4 Greninja's and Peach's Fair are frame 16 for instance and don't have the same range or coverage as Ike's frame 12 Fair, Link's frame 16 Fair, or Mewtwo's frame 13 Bair. Also, if people find out ways to confirm Bair, then startup won't matter when for those setups, Bair should always work.


Brawl Wolf's Utilt had four different hitboxes depending on where you hit with it where it even has a tipper hitbox with 120 growth instead of 115 growth like the other hitboxes and one hitbox that had a tighter 88 degree hit angle instead of 80. It was frame 7 on startup which isn't slow or fast and 25 recovery frames which is pretty normal.

The frame data thread for Ultimate Wolf says it has the same total frames where if it has the same 5 active frames, 7-11, then it would also have the same 25 recovery frames. Also, it has an 80 degree hit angle and at least two known hitboxes that do 10.5% and 8%.

Anyway, considering Wolf doesn't jump that high and we don't know its knockback, it does make sense for Wolf not to be able to follow up that easily if Utilt is popping people up and high enough. It still could work well as an anti-air and platform poke with how it hits and the opponent is still going to be in the air if they're hit, so they'll have to deal with landing somehow against him. Sure, he's not fast, but he hits hard and his air speed is good, so he could probably still follow the opponent if he jumps and they try to move away from him.

Speaking of which, could you check if Wolf's Up Smash has invincibility? Leg invincibility would make his Up Smash an even better anti-air. The start of it low profiles Wolf and the end has him shooting upward with a hitbox which if his legs are invincible would make it even easier for him to challenge aerial approaches. It doesn't look like it has great horizontal range, but the vertical range and low profile start makes it look like it could be a good anti-air. That and it looks sexy.

EDIT: I can't seem to perform that S-tilt tech very well with Wolf..

As a reflect, Falco's is pretty good when it reflects away from Falco. If you can call out when someone with a strong projectile like Samus is about to fire, you can possibly put the reflector right in front of them and they would have no way to deal with that other than get hit. Some of those characters have low enough recovery where reflecting a projectile can get you killed instead as either they have enough time to reflect it back during your character's recovery or they can respond to it in a different way. Pointblank reflects are also just fun. Charged projectile and boom! it explodes in their face instead of going anywhere.

The other thing is that I used Falco's Reflector as a poke or weird long-ranged follow-up sometimes in Smash 4. It's dangerous because of its 37 recovery frames and low knockback, but it can catch people off guard and if they're on the ground, possibly trip them to throw them off even more. The Falco Discord noted that its total frames might have been reduced in Ultimate. Their FAF listing for Reflector is 44 which is 7 less frames than in Smash 4 and Smash 4 Reflector had a lower FAF than Brawl Reflector. If Reflector has the same frame 5 startup and 10 active frames, then it would have 30 recovery frames. Not fast, but still better than 37.

Ffamran to the rescue! Wolf has at least one combo into his Bair, and it's significantly stronger than any of his other aerials. I was about to say that Sonic's Bair is really similar (but way weaker), but didn't know the frame data and didn't want to say something dumb. Happy to see the speed is very comparable.
I love that kick. I just KOed Pikachu on the center of battlefield with it at like 100%.

Uptilt does definitely platform poke, it goes pretty high! But that's about all I like it for. I also find myself using it to juggle when opponent is very low in the air, such as after a sideB. It's the only move that comes out fast enough and is rewarding enough.

Let me test the upsmash invincibility... Yes I think, I just beat Bowser downB cleanly with it. However, it seems to trade in a lot of situations. It's nowhere near as reliable as Falco's since Upsmash second hit is slow to come out and the protection, if any, is very short or with small area.

Also what's up with his Fsmash? Has bad range and doens't even do huge damage (18%), don't think it's very fast at all. Seems like there might be something about it I can't figure out...

 

[J0eyboi]

Also what's up with his Fsmash? Has bad range and doens't even do huge damage (18%), don't think it's very fast at all. Seems like there might be something about it I can't figure out...

It's FAF 44. Combined with its damage, it's only -2 or so on shield drop, and -13 OoS. Considering pushback, it's probably safe against most, if not all, of the cast.

 

[Chiroz]

The dash tech is good for Wolf’s U-Tilt and D-Smash too. It’s not only tilts. Btw I have access to the game and you guys can ask me stuff. I also am posting a ton of info on my twitter, I even posted that tech 2 days ago too. I think it’d be better to call it “Pivot Cancelling” or “Turn Around Cancelling” or something similar.

Ffamran to the rescue! Wolf has at least one combo into his Bair, and it's significantly stronger than any of his other aerials. I was about to say that Sonic's Bair is really similar (but way weaker), but didn't know the frame data and didn't want to say something dumb. Happy to see the speed is very comparable.
I love that kick. I just KOed Pikachu on the center of battlefield with it at like 100%.

Uptilt does definitely platform poke, it goes pretty high! But that's about all I like it for. I also find myself using it to juggle when opponent is very low in the air, such as after a sideB. It's the only move that comes out fast enough and is rewarding enough.

Let me test the upsmash invincibility... Yes I think, I just beat Bowser downB cleanly with it. However, it seems to trade in a lot of situations. It's nowhere near as reliable as Falco's since Upsmash second hit is slow to come out and the protection, if any, is very short or with small area.

Also what's up with his Fsmash? Has bad range and doens't even do huge damage (18%), don't think it's very fast at all. Seems like there might be something about it I can't figure out...

U-Smash has no invincibility.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

The dash tech is good for Wolf’s U-Tilt and D-Smash too. It’s not only tilts. Btw I have access to the game and you guys can ask me stuff. I also am posting a ton of info on my twitter, I even posted that tech 2 days ago too. I think it’d be better to call it “Pivot Cancelling” or “Turn Around Cancelling” or something similar.






U-Smash has no invincibility.

I did all my tests against Bowser downB in training mode. It may have been a flaw if Bowser's hitbox doesn't go all the way down because as Wolf you can definitely beat this move without trading if hit with the very tip.

 

[Chiroz]

I did all my tests against Bowser downB in training mode. It may have been a flaw if Bowser's hitbox doesn't go all the way down because as Wolf you can definitely beat this move without trading if hit with the very tip.

I mean, you can set Invincibility display on training and it shows you if a move has invincibility and/or intangibility. It even shows partial intangibility/invincibility such as Zard’s wings during U-Tilt or Yoshi’s head during F-Smash.

Wolf’s U-Smash might be disjointed and that’s why it beats Bowser’s Down-B.

 

[Ffamran]

U-Smash has no invincibility.

Well, that blows. Maybe it will get invincibility patched in later on like with Falco's Up Smash in Smash 4. I'm not even sure why it doesn't have at least head invincibility in the first place. Wolf's Up Smash low profiling helps, but I don't think it's that powerful where it couldn't have some invincibility.

Wolf's Smashes are different, but he is at a slight disadvantage when Fox and Falco have invincibility on their Smashes. Both of them have invincibility on their Up Smash and Down Smash. Fox had head invincibility since Melee and maybe Ultimate where if it becomes leg invincibility or gains upper body would be pretty helpful while Falco had the same thing until Smash 4 where his bootleg Somersault Shell didn't have any invincibility until 1.1.4 gave him leg invincibility and it lasted from startup to the active frame because Falco reasons. This move had 14 active frames and no gap between them because that's how they wanted his dumb Up Smash to work after 1.0.8. And now he has a bootleg version of Rugal Bernstein's Genocide Cutter because once again, Falco reasons. I swear if it's still invincible for all its active frames again in Ultimate.

Wolf’s U-Smash might be disjointed and that’s why it beats Bowser’s Down-B.

Wolf shoots up pretty high and Bowser is going downwards towards him. The other thing and I don't know if this would need to be confirmed whenever we get the ability to see hurtboxes, but for some moves, hurtboxes can be extended which if that is happening for Bowser's Bowser Bomb, then that would be another reason. I can't think of a move off the top of my head that does this in Smash 4, but I know in Street Fighter, some moves have extended hurtboxes which helps for whiff punishing and also hurts if the hurtbox is extended too much and on a weird place or move that you wouldn't expect it to be on.

Edit: Walk speed is up on Kuro's site: http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/WalkSpeed.

Wolf's walk speed is 1.208, the same as Chrom, Corrin, Roy, and Yoshi's. He actually went down in speed in Ultimate which is odd. His Brawl walk speed was 1.3, so he was like Melee Falco where his run speed was only 0.1 higher than his walk speed. It's still all right, but strange. In a way, Ultimate Wolf traded walk speed for run speed as his run speed went up by 0.14 while his walk speed went down by 0.092. Considering changes to dashing, it's a good trade, but having a fast(er) walk speed would have still been useful.

 

[Chiroz]

Well, that blows. Maybe it will get invincibility patched in later on like with Falco's Up Smash in Smash 4. I'm not even sure why it doesn't have at least head invincibility in the first place. Wolf's Up Smash low profiling helps, but I don't think it's that powerful where it couldn't have some invincibility.

Wolf's Smashes are different, but he is at a slight disadvantage when Fox and Falco have invincibility on their Smashes. Both of them have invincibility on their Up Smash and Down Smash. Fox had head invincibility since Melee and maybe Ultimate where if it becomes leg invincibility or gains upper body would be pretty helpful while Falco had the same thing until Smash 4 where his bootleg Somersault Shell didn't have any invincibility until 1.1.4 gave him leg invincibility and it lasted from startup to the active frame because Falco reasons. This move had 14 active frames and no gap between them because that's how they wanted his dumb Up Smash to work after 1.0.8. And now he has a bootleg version of Rugal Bernstein's Genocide Cutter because once again, Falco reasons. I swear if it's still invincible for all its active frames again in Ultimate.


Wolf shoots up pretty high and Bowser is going downwards towards him. The other thing and I don't know if this would need to be confirmed whenever we get the ability to see hurtboxes, but for some moves, hurtboxes can be extended which if that is happening for Bowser's Bowser Bomb, then that would be another reason. I can't think of a move off the top of my head that does this in Smash 4, but I know in Street Fighter, some moves have extended hurtboxes which helps for whiff punishing and also hurts if the hurtbox is extended too much and on a weird place or move that you wouldn't expect it to be on.

Edit: Walk speed is up on Kuro's site: http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/WalkSpeed.

Wolf's walk speed is 1.208, the same as Chrom, Corrin, Roy, and Yoshi's. He actually went down in speed in Ultimate which is odd. His Brawl walk speed was 1.3, so he was like Melee Falco where his run speed was only 0.1 higher than his walk speed. It's still all right, but strange. In a way, Ultimate Wolf traded walk speed for run speed as his run speed went up by 0.14 while his walk speed went down by 0.092. Considering changes to dashing, it's a good trade, but having a fast(er) walk speed would have still been useful.

Wolf’s fastest method of movement is fox trotting. It’s faster than running, lol. Tested his timing to cover the training stage and it was something like 5.8 seconds with run, very slightly above 5 seconds with fox trotting.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Well, that blows. Maybe it will get invincibility patched in later on like with Falco's Up Smash in Smash 4. I'm not even sure why it doesn't have at least head invincibility in the first place. Wolf's Up Smash low profiling helps, but I don't think it's that powerful where it couldn't have some invincibility.

Wolf's Smashes are different, but he is at a slight disadvantage when Fox and Falco have invincibility on their Smashes. Both of them have invincibility on their Up Smash and Down Smash. Fox had head invincibility since Melee and maybe Ultimate where if it becomes leg invincibility or gains upper body would be pretty helpful while Falco had the same thing until Smash 4 where his bootleg Somersault Shell didn't have any invincibility until 1.1.4 gave him leg invincibility and it lasted from startup to the active frame because Falco reasons. This move had 14 active frames and no gap between them because that's how they wanted his dumb Up Smash to work after 1.0.8. And now he has a bootleg version of Rugal Bernstein's Genocide Cutter because once again, Falco reasons. I swear if it's still invincible for all its active frames again in Ultimate.


Wolf shoots up pretty high and Bowser is going downwards towards him. The other thing and I don't know if this would need to be confirmed whenever we get the ability to see hurtboxes, but for some moves, hurtboxes can be extended which if that is happening for Bowser's Bowser Bomb, then that would be another reason. I can't think of a move off the top of my head that does this in Smash 4, but I know in Street Fighter, some moves have extended hurtboxes which helps for whiff punishing and also hurts if the hurtbox is extended too much and on a weird place or move that you wouldn't expect it to be on.

Edit: Walk speed is up on Kuro's site: http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/WalkSpeed.

Wolf's walk speed is 1.208, the same as Chrom, Corrin, Roy, and Yoshi's. He actually went down in speed in Ultimate which is odd. His Brawl walk speed was 1.3, so he was like Melee Falco where his run speed was only 0.1 higher than his walk speed. It's still all right, but strange. In a way, Ultimate Wolf traded walk speed for run speed as his run speed went up by 0.14 while his walk speed went down by 0.092. Considering changes to dashing, it's a good trade, but having a fast(er) walk speed would have still been useful.

Upsmash is not bad at all! It has an amazing hitbox. Fox and Falco upsmashes often require you to be pretty precise or you get the weak hitbox. Wolfgrabs targets from both sides from really low and links into the second hit very reliably. (Have been spamming it to try and test the invincibility). Not invincible, but not a bad move! I like it a lot better than his F-smash.

 

[Chiroz]

By the way, the reason Wolf’s D-Smash kills so early it’s because it basically has Marth’s tipper mechanic, except the sourspot isn’t as weak, but the tipper is basically just as strong as a Marth one.

 

[Ffamran]

Wolf's fall speed might be the same as in Brawl which means he and Falco share the same fall speed now and maybe even gravity if neither of their gravity values where changed.

Check the full tweet to see the note about unchanged fall speed values if it doesn't show up.

New fall speeds in Ultimate courtesy of @Ruben_dal:
Bowser: 1.39 -> 1.77 (!)
Captain Falcon: 1.837 -> 1.865
Charizard: 1.4 -> 1.52
Fox: 2.05 -> 2.1
Ice Climbers: 1.2 -> 1.3
Incineroar: 1.76
Inkling: 1.58
Isabelle: 1.3
Ivysaur: 1.35 -> 1.38
King K. Rool: 1.7
(1/3)

— Virum (Old Profile) (@Virum_SD) November 30, 2018

 

[SmashBro99]

I want to play him, he's my favorite Star Fox character, but man his recovery is ass, he can't even Up+B after his side special like Fox and Falco can...a bad recovery in this game is even worse now that you cant spam airdodge....yikes.

 

[MERPIS]

I want to play him, he's my favorite Star Fox character, but man his recovery is ***, he can't even Up+B after his side special like Fox and Falco can...a bad recovery in this game is even worse now that you cant spam airdodge....yikes.

sure

 

[MarioMeteor]

Does anybody know if Fire Wolf kills? I know it probably won’t be useful but I’m curious.