Wofl Q&A/Social

[Ishiey]

Idk... Snake hasn't been doing particularly well as of late, has he? And his MUs seem more "meh" at top level compared to other top tiers because his character flaws are easier to abuse. Then again, I have Marth at like 4th, so lol. Play MK.

Ganon has worse relevant MUs than those characters so I'm against moving him up, but they're all kinda interchangeable and tbh I'm more worried about fighting Ganon than Falcon/Zelda/Puff because one mistake means I'm getting bodied and my opponent gets in my head for free. See: me vs. Gheb the morning of day 2, APEX 2013

 

[MegaRobMan]

You're a senator now, you're supposed to lie and pretend you know what's going on like IRL.

You say Marth is free, but you think he's 4th? Or is that just the wolf matchup? I think it's very even, especially if the marth just goes for 0%/death set ups.

MK/IC/OLI/DIDDY Those are "easily" the 4 best characters imho, probably in that order.

Then probably Marth/ZSS/Snake/Falco/Pika, probably in that order.

Then D3/Wario/LucarioWolf/TL, idk about that order, but something like that.

Also I think Ganon might be a better character than a lot of the LT's similarly to how Wolf has the stats of the like 7th best character, but he gets gayed and probably has the worst matchup chart. Though his stats are better than Jiggs and Falcons. Maybe Zelda and Samus, though I think Samus if played right does well (-1 at worst) vs some high tiers, like Wario/Falco/Marth/Pika.

 

[Ishiey]

I think most Marths are bad at fighting Wolf, and are free in that sense. The MU is probably even, but it's all about how often mistakes occur and how well each player knows the MU to capitalize on said mistakes. As a character, he's free until you reach very high levels of play, where he makes almost everyone else look free instead.

I'm not sure if I think D3 is good anymore. As in, I don't think he's good at fighting characters that will actually show up in today's metagame. For that reason, I voted characters like Wolf and TL above D3 in the next tier list.

Samus might actually be passable in a few MUs, but she's still never getting out of low tier. Even if you have a few decent MUs it's not going to get you far if the remaining 2/3rds of the relevant cast bodies you for free :x

 

[Rizen]

You're a senator now, you're supposed to lie and pretend you know what's going on like IRL.

Lol.


Ganon has very bad stats in ways too (air speed, movement in general, fastest ground attack is jab frame 8 and his grab's frame 7 with terrible range, etc).
As much as Zelda's put down, she does get out of every escapable CG. That's a big +.

I don't mean to be hatin' Ganon; he wrecks big time when he get's the chance. Dair offstage or hitting a ground opponent at 80-90% is devastating and his Uair is IMO the best in the game. DashA kills early too.

MK/IC/OLI/DIDDY Those are "easily" the 4 best characters imho, probably in that order.

With character ranks I have to bring up stages are a huge factor...

@Anyone
Suppose tourneys were MK banned and the stage list was:
Starters

PS1, BF, YI Brawl, Lylat, SV

and CPs were

Halberd, CS, Delfino, FD, Brin, RC, Frigate

How do you think the tiers would differ?


(Frankly I see FD as more of a CP. It's not neutral)

 

[Seagull Joe]

sucks. He's too average to be considered a better character then others who have some godlike trait like 's cg, 's stupidness, 's everything, 's weight/power/ability to KO early/damage output, and 's ease at walling/controlling the stage. I "could" see as high as 6th in the future, but I also question whether or not is better then him.

still should be considered at least the last one in HT because of his overwhelming matchup spread versus every character below him. He also beats , , and is even with . // should be below . is the best LT. is the worst. is not LT.

 

[MegaRobMan]

I think Samus loses in a lot of Low tier matchups too, lol.

It's just that she does well vs some good characters which is funny.

Also Any stage list that has PS1 and/or Castlesiege as neutrals is a tournament I refuse to attend.

Nebraska stage list is SV/FD/YI/LC/DP/BF/PC, and in doubles add (this weekend!!!!) Pirate Ship and Norfair, but we just dropped RC/PS2/FO over the last 2 months.

Yes, we prefer 100% prefer pictochat to every other stage that isn't one of those 6 and Pirate Ship and Norfair to the rest of those ****ty stages, though some people pine for PS1. And Luigis.

After this tournament we probably won't have pirateship legal (doubles only), which is a sad stage to see get retired.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Ps1 might be 's 2nd best stage. How foolish of you Rob, but I can't argue with the best .

 

[Ishiey]

Rizen, I wish we had that stage list PS1 is still a terrible stage though. So campy -__-

Gull, Marth is an exceptionally safe character compared to Snake imo. While he lacks more obvious strengths like those characters you listed, it's his safety and effective range that make him a potent character. Few characters sans MK can rival it at top level. Agreed that ZSS might be a better character than we think, but eh, time will tell. On D3, idk, I just see him getting stomped on too hard by too many relevant characters to hold his spot :x

What makes you say PS1 is such a good stage for Wolf? Not really disagreeing, but screw those ledges lol

 

[Rizen]

Marth's spacing tools are incredible and his other stats are good too.


Aside from the ledges, PS1 is a great stage to space on. It's nice characters can't fly all the way under it too. Getting pinned can suck but that's avoidable with smart positioning.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Marth is an exceptionally safe character [...]

No!

 

[Seagull Joe]

Wall locks for and platforms. What could be better? 's best stage is clearly BF without question.

has so many unsafe things. You just have to know how to pick and choose your options correctly. When I was practiced in the matchup of vs I realized how easy it was to exploit his Fair, Bair, Fsmash, and Side B. The only thing that isn't super easy to exploit is his Up b unless he uses it in a stupid or predictable fashion.

I'm not practiced at the moment. I haven't been to a tourney in months lmao.

 

[Ishiey]

Guys, it's the other way around lol. Once Marth knows what he's doing and picks his options correctly, he's the one preventing punishes. Trust me, I know a good deal about the Marth MU :x his margin of error is small but makes a huge change between what we can and cannot do to him.

Gheb, why do you say Marth is unsafe?

 

[Rizen]

I agree with Ish. For a character who doesn't run away as a key strategy, like Wario hoping to time out, Marth has very safe tools.


Monster hunter Tri Ultimate is fun

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I didn't say Marth is "unsafe" but he's far from "exceptionally" safe. He's relatively safe.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Out of the "6" neutrals, BF/SV/FD/LC/PS1/YI, is my order of how I think wolf is on the stages. It sucks that I personally feel I have to ban FD every time, because it really is such a good stage for Wolf.

PS1 is banned in Nebraska basically because Lux was banning all stages with hitboxes so I banned all stages with metagame changing "death traps" like PS1 and CS too. And no, Delfinos "death trap" is nothing like the others, you can't exploit it like you can on CS.

Pictochat is legal in Wichita/STL/IA and Nebraska.

 

[Rizen]

Out of the "6" neutrals, BF/SV/FD/LC/PS1/YI, is my order of how I think wolf is on the stages. It sucks that I personally feel I have to ban FD every time, because it really is such a good stage for Wolf.

PS1 is banned in Nebraska basically because Lux was banning all stages with hitboxes so I banned all stages with metagame changing "death traps" like PS1 and CS too. And no, Delfinos "death trap" is nothing like the others, you can't exploit it like you can on CS.

Pictochat is legal in Wichita/STL/IA and Nebraska.

What death traps does PS1 have? It has no walkoffs, no hit box elements and the walls only stay up a short time. The ledges can suck but even as Zelda (harder to recover than Wolf) they are in no way a death trap.


Frankly I see FD as a CP as much as any. It's one of the most common striked and banned stages even when Brin and RC were legal (it easily could be THE most banned). The logic of it not having changing elements or platforms so it's neutral is flawed.

/I get peeved by losing reasonable stages (in MK banned events, he massacres on CPs like Brin ). Brin may seem crazy to a Falco or ICs etc player but FD is just as crazy vs them playing as most of the cast. Playing a large variety of characters has given me respect for a large stage selection.

 

[MegaRobMan]

You can get sucked into the pokeball in the middle of the floor on PS1, and I have myself put someone through it with D3's CG. It's WAY WAY WAY WAY harder to do than on CS, which any character that has a throw that grounds someone (like marths f-throw for example of some stupid one) and will force you to get a landing penalty and not be able to jump and you die.

I did this to MJG on CS, so it's not like you can say "Yeah, but vs good players..." no...no...it's broken and dumb. And CS is a bad stage anyway.

Also I don't run neutrals since no stage is neutral (balloon on SV vs NESS), just run 7 stages. I agree that FD is probably the most banned stage in the game, because of the lameness of Brawl, but for matchups that don't involved CG's, FD is a fine stage, except for the ledge. Sure people can camp, but that's part of the game.

 

[tekkie]

since when was there a consistent setup for jamming a character under CS

 

[Rizen]

The pokeball glitch rarely happens and only during some transformation phases. It's not a consistent thing. That can happen with any transforming stage where elements rise.

I'm not against camping lol. I don't mind FD but the logic of banning Brin and keeping FD as a starter is very one-sided. :/

 

[Seagull Joe]

since when was there a consistent setup for jamming a character under CS

Since the best said so.

 

[MegaRobMan]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Seagull go get the recording setup and show the world.

 

[Seagull Joe]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Seagull go get the recording setup and show the world.

I was talking about you being the best .

Now question, if we do dthrow someone on CS at the time the stage is staging, would that net us a free kill on most characters? If so, CS is even better.

 

[MegaRobMan]

I've thought about it like that too, and if I ever go to a national, I'd probably only go for those kills.

Funny thing is that most characters with good recoveries still can't land back on stage, it's like the game reads that you can't stand on the stage once you've fallen through if you do it early enough.

 

[DeLux]

Out of the "6" neutrals, BF/SV/FD/LC/PS1/YI, is my order of how I think wolf is on the stages. It sucks that I personally feel I have to ban FD every time, because it really is such a good stage for Wolf.

PS1 is banned in Nebraska basically because Lux was banning all stages with hitboxes so I banned all stages with metagame changing "death traps" like PS1 and CS too. And no, Delfinos "death trap" is nothing like the others, you can't exploit it like you can on CS.

Pictochat is legal in Wichita/STL/IA and Nebraska.

Why would you ban PS1/CS for transformation related "death traps", when the same thing occurs on Frigate which had to be voted out of being legal?

 

[MegaRobMan]

It's 100% different.

But frigate was legal to counterpick myself anyway.

 

[DeLux]

If I'm reading correctly, you have too many "1"'s in your last statement

 

[KRDsonic]

Suddenly I realize. The banning of Brinstar and RC is one of the things that killed my interest in this game. Having almost every match be on SV got boring.

 

[draMaddox]

So I'm a little late to the game here, just bought Smash and my cube controller, while waiting for their arrival i was researching my favorite char on youtube, Luca, will always love him.

But then I saw you madmen with Wolf. I always thought that Star Fox chars were kinda cheap and people just spammed lasers. But then this fugging appearance of my man with the claws and bayonet comes and I'm about to make him my other main.

Saw some crazy stuff by JCav and I'm ready to go. You guys are all clearly pro/competitive and I'm just starting but I def wanna do my hw with these guys and have some fun rocking kids with meteor smashes and going under BF and SV

 

[GoldenyoshiKing]

I got a question to the Wolf mains. Can you lets say you buffer a forward air, and it hits. Can you continue on from there, or you can't imput anything else. If you can, then can you imput a up tilt then continue on from there? How about you lets say preform a down smash, and your opponant gets hit. Now he/she are offstage; can you run, go offstage, and then preform a flash step cancel, and then do a blaster offstage, but with the blade as well. So what I mean is you preform your blaster, but really close; which results to a like far push, and makes your opponant have trouble recovering. I do this, but I want to know if it would work on everyone. Except MetaKnight, and maybe Kirby. That's if he doesn't figure out what your next move is. Finally, It would work on smart players and such? Last thing and I'm gone. I have good reaction to canceling Wolf's flash step of the edge. So, lets say I preform a down samsh again, and he/she are offstage. I then go offstage, but this time preform a flash step cancel, but don't jump, and preform a second flash step cancel, and see if they would do a silly mistake that would result to a stock, or win.
What do you guys think?
I've done a flash step tow times, because they woulde xcept me to do a down air for flash, and I would, but I would cancel a second to wait for that air dodge, and pow;D

I remember I was playing a MetaKnight, and we all know they love their Nado xD So, after losing a stock from each other, and he's of course winning, because he's metaKnight-_- he down smashes, and I power shield it. I then do a down smash, he's di'ng and up airing like crazy. He then starts gliding, and I run. I then flash step, and cancel it, he see's it, and cancels his glide, with a nado (typical) I then preform a reflector, because it's invincible ;D then he was to busy pushing the special button to realize that I broke his nado, and then did a down smash. He he Just sharing one my special moments with Wolf. Wolf Is amazing<3 Be blessed Wolf boards, and Wolf mains in general~

 

[KRDsonic]

 

[tekkie]

So I'm a little late to the game here, just bought Smash and my cube controller, while waiting for their arrival i was researching my favorite char on youtube, Luca, will always love him.

i also use wofl sometimes

also i have no idea what goldenyoshi was trying to say :S

 

[Seagull Joe]

If you fair and it connects, you can only continue with a followup if the fair is sh and you buffer a jump to uair. Kain is really good at that tech.

 

[GoldenyoshiKing]

i also use wofl sometimes

also i have no idea what goldenyoshi was trying to say :S

Mind if I ask what part confused you? I believed I sopke my comments and questions pretty clearly?.

@ Seagul Joe I see, well I mostly preform a buffered forward air to a boost pivot grab, and continue on from there. What do you think about Wolfs up throw? What I would preform Is a jump, then know they will air dodge, and then at the end of my fall, I'd imput a up air, then quickly buffer a back air, to another back air.

So you didn't get my combo I thought I explained It well. Darn:/ I'll try harder on being more narrow with my wordings. Have a blessed weekend guys and girls~

*Howels*

 

[MegaRobMan]

YES!!!

Someone else who is going to spam you assholes with walls of text

suck it!

 

[Seagull Joe]

Mind if I ask what part confused you? I believed I sopke my comments and questions pretty clearly?.

@ Seagul Joe I see, well I mostly preform a buffered forward air to a boost pivot grab, and continue on from there. What do you think about Wolfs up throw? What I would preform Is a jump, then know they will air dodge, and then at the end of my fall, I'd imput a up air, then quickly buffer a back air, to another back air.

So you didn't get my combo I thought I explained It well. Darn:/ I'll try harder on being more narrow with my wordings. Have a blessed weekend guys and girls~

*Howels*

I think 's Uthrow is not good. His Bthrow has better trajectory. His Fthrow angles better. His Dthrow is the best throw he has because it does the most damage and gives the best potential for follow-ups.

Forward air to boost pivot grab could work in theory, but that would require the opponent to airdodge back to the ground after getting fair'd or stay in shield if they shielded the fair. Bair combos significantly easier then Fair.

Good ideas overall.

 

[MegaRobMan]

1. MK = 1.0125
2. IC = 2.6500
3. Olimar = 3.3000
4. Diddy = 4.6375
5. Snake = 5.5000
6. Falco = 6.0250
7. Marth = 6.2250
8. Pikachu = 8.2375
9. ZSS = 8.4000
10. Wario = 9.3000
11. Lucario = 11.1875
12. DDD = 12.3625
13. TL = 13.6125
14. Wolf = 15.0250
15. G&W = 15.1375
16. Fox = 15.3750
17. Pit = 17.0625
18. ROB = 18.1250
19. Peach = 18.2250
20. Kirby = 20.2875
21. DK = 22.4375
22. Ike = 22.5375
23. Sonic = 23.3500
24. Sheik = 23.3625
25. Ness = 24.1250
26. Yoshi = 26.1875
27. Luigi = 26.8500
28. Lucas = 27.1750
29. PT = 27.8250
30. Mario = 30.7375
31. Samus = 30.9125
32. Bowser = 32.3500
33. Captain Falcon = 33.2250
34. Link = 33.7000
35. Jigglypuff = 35.0875
36. Zelda = 35.2875
37. Ganondorf = 36.2500

That looks about right to me.

Might lower pika. And raise peach way the **** up.

This sucks for mid tiers and low tiers, losing Lucas for character varieties sake.

 

[GoldenyoshiKing]

I think 's Uthrow is not good. His Bthrow has better trajectory. His Fthrow angles better. His Dthrow is the best throw he has because it does the most damage and gives the best potential for follow-ups.

Forward air to boost pivot grab could work in theory, but that would require the opponent to airdodge back to the ground after getting fair'd or stay in shield if they shielded the fair. Bair combos significantly easier then Fair.

Good ideas overall.

I see, I actually like preforming Wolf up throw, and like run the other way, but pivot my Dacus to catch them of guard to other set up strings.. I also noticed that Wolf's reflector is amazing! I don't know if it's true, but is Wolf's reflector invincible? I actually do a down throw to a jab cancel, because even If they power shield the first jab, the second would connect, and if it didn't then you could continue until they air dodge, or back roll. I never really use all of Wolf's jab one, two, three. I mostly preform one jab to a fair, or down grab again, and continue on from there. I watched Kain vs Salem... oh man... i felt sorry for Kain I wonder what Kain is going to do next time he fights Salem.

 

[KRDsonic]

Wolf's shine has invincibility frames. Jumpshine is a good option for getting out of a bad situation.

I don't think Jab can reach after a Dthrow at a safe % can it? I know if you Dthrow when the opponent is at 0% or something, they get frame advantage over you. Also, if it does, they could always shieldgrab if you're jabbing afterwards. I know I see quite a few people blaster after Dthrow. I go for regrab a lot at low percents since people tend to shield after it a lot.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I see, I actually like preforming Wolf up throw, and like run the other way, but pivot my Dacus to catch them of guard to other set up strings.. I also noticed that Wolf's reflector is amazing! I don't know if it's true, but is Wolf's reflector invincible? I actually do a down throw to a jab cancel, because even If they power shield the first jab, the second would connect, and if it didn't then you could continue until they air dodge, or back roll. I never really use all of Wolf's jab one, two, three. I mostly preform one jab to a fair, or down grab again, and continue on from there. I watched Kain vs Salem... oh man... i felt sorry for Kain I wonder what Kain is going to do next time he fights Salem.

's shine is invincible. It is really good and beats out everything except superarmor'd moves and shields.

's jabs are highly versatile. Jab 1 can lead into several reads and has deceptive range. Jab 1>Jab 2 can lead into a read smash attack or dash re-grab. Jab 1>Jab 2>Jab 3 is good for putting characters in the air/above . This is especially good versus whose options are actually more limited when all 3 jabs are being used (Unless he SDI's).

Kain does so-so vs due to matchup inexperience. I don't think any has had sufficient experience. I've played a few a long time ago, but I don't have any recent experience except vs Snakeee from a month and a half ago.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Semifer used to be alrightish against ZSS due to playing quik here and there. They had a relavitely even record, I believe. It was quite a while ago though and quik has improved by a lot whereas Semifer has quit playing. Wolf players need to stop airdodging after getting hit though, especially dtilt. She can always follow it with dsmash.