Will Smash 4 kill the Melee Star?

[guedes the brawler]

Persona 4?
might as well add blazblue and guilty gear since there more complex.

er, the point is being easier, not harder

 

[Road Death Wheel]

er, the point is being easier, not harder

There was a point?
i thought we were just naming intuitive fighting games
so i just named the 2 other popular game by arc system works.

 

[R0Y]

For most people, it probably will. There'll always been a vocal minority though.

On an unrelated note, is that a reference to a 70's British Pop song in the title? lol

 

[D-idara]

Injustice does a good job with being intuitive, and so does Persona 4 arena

Well, Injustice is made by the same great studio that somehow made a fighting game enjoyable for newcomers.

 

[ryuu seika]

Injustice was a terrible game for casual play, if only because many of the scenery interactions were not immediately obvious and therefore gave a major advantage to the owner of the game, who had taken the time to learn them. In my case, I was the owner and the imbalance in my favour was majorly apparent, making things rather unfun in multiplayer.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

It's simple: Wii U does not support wired controllers. Melee will live on.

 

[R0Y]

It's simple: Wii U does not support wired controllers. Melee will live on.

The human eye cannot perceive that input lag....odds are your HDTV has more...

 

[DakotaBonez]

Project M is slaughtering it as we speak, Smash 4 will be the nail in the coffin.
JK Melee will never die, each smash game has been surprisingly unique.

 

[Renji64]

Im not caring about hat i was just making sure that people understand that that was opinionated.
I personally think smash 4 will be alot more like a Smash 64 2.0
witch will be better than anything the later installments have 2 offer.

That is kinda how i see it as a moden n64 or a fresh start.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

The human eye cannot perceive that input lag....odds are your HDTV has more...

It has nothing to do with lag. Wireless interference in tournament settings is a confirmed problem.

 

[VictoriaYr]

Anything is possible. I think that if a ton of people suddenly decided to start playing Smash 4 competitively, then maybe. It will depend how many people get into it. And though this is baseless conjuncture, I think Smash 4 is the most likely of the Smash titles to push casuals towards the competitive side. But I think that it won't be a case of people 'upgrading' from melee... but rather, less ~new~ people picking up melee, and going for the newest game instead. It would be like the Meiji Restoration of Smash.

 

[R0Y]

It has nothing to do with lag. Wireless interference in tournament settings is a confirmed problem.

That'll mysteriously disappear when smash U comes out.

 

[Vkrm]

That'll mysteriously disappear when smash U comes out.

I gather most people are expecting Nintendo to update the Wiiu so they can start selling a wired solution alongside smash 4. If that were the case i think we'd would've heard of it by now. Believe me when I say wired controllers will be a monumental obstacle when playing smash 4 in a tournament setting. Apparently the Bluetooth tech in the wiiu is advanced enough that general interference won't be an issue underneath 50,000 individual players or something ridiculous like that. The problems that come up are things like battery life and syncing up to particular set up while others are trying to do the same thing.

 

[R0Y]

I gather most people are expecting Nintendo to update the Wiiu so they can start selling a wired solution alongside smash 4. If that were the case i think we'd would've heard of it by now. Believe me when I say wired controllers will be a monumental obstacle when playing smash 4 in a tournament setting. Apparently the Bluetooth tech in the wiiu is advanced enough that general interference won't be an issue underneath 50,000 individual players or something ridiculous like that. The problems that come up are things like battery life and syncing up to particular set up while others are trying to do the same thing.

Pro Controllers and Wiimotes use Bluetooth, Gamepad uses (5 Ghz) Wi-Fi. Wii U also has a weaker 2.4 Ghz Wi-Fi card for internet connectivity.

At any rate, could a firmware update make the Pro Controllers output data through the USB cable or is that not possible with the pro? 4 USB's could mean 4 controller ports. Nintendo concerned that would encourage third-party wired controllers? The competitors controllers send data over USB when the cord is plugged in for charging reasons.

Spoiler

Probably can't be changed, and if it can't, I doubt Nintendo provides another wired option.

 

[Johnknight1]

Smash 4 won't kill Melee.

It might really hurt the Brawl scene though.

Also, the lack of wired controller support reallllllly hurts Smash WiiU, like a lot.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Injustice was a terrible game for casual play, if only because many of the scenery interactions were not immediately obvious and therefore gave a major advantage to the owner of the game, who had taken the time to learn them. In my case, I was the owner and the imbalance in my favour was majorly apparent, making things rather unfun in multiplayer.

that's a stupid argument. this would mean traditional fighters are better than Smash for casual play because the owner knows what the stage hazards do and when they do their stuff

 

[ryuu seika]

Reread my comment. It's not about whether you know the interactions or not, it's about how clear they are.

The VAST majority of what Smash does is intuitive and gives the player time to react.
Injustice, on the other hand, makes it almost trial and error to work out where its stage effects are. Many of them don't do what you'd expect either and, ontop of that, they're not even the same for every character.

In Smash, it helps you take advantage of the stage if you know it. In injustice, you cannot take advantage of the stage unless you do.

People I've played injustice against have outright refused to move because anywhere they go could potentially allow me to hit them with something they couldn't possibly be expected to know about.
Have you ever heard that in SSB? I think not.

 

[Hayzie]

I'm happy to move passed Melee. All Smash games are competitive and they keep getting better, imo (give or take a few elements).

Then again, Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix is the best SF in the world, so I'd rather player SF II over 3rd Strike or IV.

I'm pretty sure the only Smash game I'll touch for a long time is Smash 4, but yeah sure, I'll play Melee or Brawl if that's all that is available.

 

[Zuby]

Smash 4 won't kill Melee.

It might really hurt the Brawl scene though.

Also, the lack of wired controller support reallllllly hurts Smash WiiU, like a lot.

I think it might actually lead to a Brawl renaissance where everyone suddenly realises it wasn't that bad. Except for the competitive scene, of course.

 

[Empyrean]

I think it might actually lead to a Brawl renaissance where everyone suddenly realises it wasn't that bad. Except for the competitive scene, of course.

I don't understand. Everyone realizes that it's not a bad game, except the competitive scene? Where is the renaissance in this?

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I don't understand. Everyone realizes that it's not a bad game, except the competitive scene? Where is the renaissance in this?

I think he means the competitive scene it already has is exempt from realizing it's not a bad game as they already believe that.

Either way, don't see a renaissance happening.

 

[Empyrean]

I think he means the competitive scene it already has is exempt from realizing it's not a bad game as they already believe that.

Then who's left?

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Then who's left?

Shrek fans and the Mexican Mafia?

 

[Smash G]

It would be nice. I'm honestly sick of Melee.

 

[R0Y]

Smash 4 won't kill Melee.

It might really hurt the Brawl scene though.

Also, the lack of wired controller support reallllllly hurts Smash WiiU, like a lot.

It might really hurt the the Brawl scene but not the Melee scene? Please.

You're reallllly overstating the significance of controller lag when you compare it to your average HDTV and the fact that everyone playing locally experiences the same lag.

 

[Johnknight1]

It might really hurt the the Brawl scene but not the Melee scene? Please.

The Melee scene will largely stay the same. The Melee scene still has support from MLG, as well as entities like Smash Studios, VG Boot Camp, Clash Tournaments, Team Liquid, Team Spooky, Team Curse, etc., aka people that routinely get over 10,000 viewers.

I mean, it might take something away from the Melee scene, but the Melee scene still has international coverage.

You're reallllly overstating the significance of controller lag when you compare it to your average HDTV and the fact that everyone playing locally experiences the same lag.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

You obviously have never been in an environment with 100+ or 200+ people like I have with 50+ Wii's where a Wiimote with a Wiimote Plus can't even find the sensor bar right when it's right in front of it. Could you imagine that but with 200+ wired controllers=???

There's a reason Street Fighter, Tekken, Dead or Alive, Mortal Kombat, BRAWL!, Starcraft, League of Legends, DOTA, or any competitive supports wireless controller play at big tournaments.

Tekken once did, but they caused gigantic interference at the EVO Grand Finals in 2008 or so.

Basically you proved that...

 

[Thirdkoopa]

It might really hurt the the Brawl scene but not the Melee scene? Please.

...uh yeah that makes sense. Brawl's the smaller scene and Brawl has more people willing to move.

You're reallllly overstating the significance of controller lag when you compare it to your average HDTV and the fact that everyone playing locally experiences the same lag.

He might be, but with 100 peopl ein the room all online at once can you say it'll work pretty? If so, you don't know about how wireless controllers work. EVO tried it with Tekken.

 

[Johnknight1]

I think it might actually lead to a Brawl renaissance where everyone suddenly realises it wasn't that bad. Except for the competitive scene, of course.

It could, and hopefully it does lead to a better age of Brawl, but at this point, Brawl seems like it's falling off. It's stayed stagnant at best the last year or so, and I think the game competitively falling off in certain regions is not a good thing. Hopefully Toronto Joe and other great leaders can rally the Brawl scene around them more.

 

[R0Y]

The Melee scene will largely stay the same. The Melee scene still has support from MLG, as well as entities like Smash Studios, VG Boot Camp, Clash Tournaments, Team Liquid, Team Spooky, Team Curse, etc., aka people that routinely get over 10,000 viewers.

I mean, it might take something away from the Melee scene, but the Melee scene still has international coverage.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

You obviously have never been in an environment with 100+ or 200+ people like I have with 50+ Wii's where a Wiimote with a Wiimote Plus can't even find the sensor bar right when it's right in front of it. Could you imagine that but with 200+ wired controllers=???

There's a reason Street Fighter, Tekken, Dead or Alive, Mortal Kombat, BRAWL!, Starcraft, League of Legends, DOTA, or any competitive supports wireless controller play at big tournaments.

Tekken once did, but they caused gigantic interference at the EVO Grand Finals in 2008 or so.

Basically you proved that...

"Melee Scene" come on son. It'll hurt it if it hurts Brawl's. You think every single one of those will not try SSB U if it's between the two in speed? Not everybody's a "retro" hipster, in fact, most gamers aren't.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! It'll be fine. Wiimotes use an old implementation of bluetooth and required the sensor bar, I can't believe you're comparing them to the Pro Controller or the 5 Ghz Wi-Fi gamepad.

You also don't seem to understand that HDTV input lag can be far worse that wireless controller input lag...

Would wired as an option be preferrable? Yes. Will it happen? Probably not, most people don't care, please understand.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

It could, and hopefully it does lead to a better age of Brawl, but at this point, Brawl seems like it's falling off. It's stayed stagnant at best the last year or so, and I think the game competitively falling off in certain regions is not a good thing. Hopefully Toronto Joe and other great leaders can rally the Brawl scene around them more.

I'm sure Brawl will have more of a presence soon along with Smash 64.

Give it time.

 

[Johnknight1]

It would be nice. I'm honestly sick of Melee.

Apparently this is the thread where you complain about other smash games.

 

[R0Y]

Apparently this is the thread where you complain about other smash games.

Will Smash 4 kill the Melee Star?

You don't say...

 

[Thirdkoopa]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! It'll be fine. Wiimotes use an old implementation of bluetooth and required the sensor bar, I can't believe you're comparing them to the Pro Controller or the 5 Ghz Wi-Fi gamepad.

uh

bluetooth's lag like hell and no one is gonna use the wiimote; maybe the classic controller but even then that has lag

 

[R0Y]

uh

bluetooth's lag like hell and no one is gonna use the wiimote; maybe the classic controller but even then that has lag

Uh...that's what I was saying. You can't compare Wiimote interference to the Pro Controller and Gamepad. Classic Controller went through the wiimote to the IR bar so it had the same problem.

 

[Johnknight1]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! It'll be fine. Wiimotes use an old implementation of bluetooth and required the sensor bar, I can't believe you're comparing them to the Pro Controller or the 5 Ghz Wi-Fi gamepad.

>Bluetooth
>>High tech
>>>Seems legit

Can't wait for you to bust out your Game Boy Camera and call it "high tech".

Also, tell that to any Melee or Brawl TO. They'll laugh at you for the ignorant person you are on the matter.

You also don't seem to understand that HDTV input lag can be far worse that wireless controller input lag...

It's called "mixing up inputs" which is a lootttttttt worse. Like this....

Look at the ending... that's what will happen at least at several major tournaments with wireless controllers. I guarantee it.

Would wired as an option be preferrable? Yes. Will it happen? Probably not, most people don't care, please understand.

"Most people don't care"... apparently TO's don't matter.

Many top NorCal TO's I know have told me they straight up won't run Smash WiiU tournaments long-term without wired controllers. Without NorCal, which probably means without SoCal, that's a big hit for Smash WiiU's competitive scene if that happens, which means you lose the core of the North American scene.

Please understand... Iwata should be fired.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Honestly this thread is silly. Regardless of how good/bad Smash 4 ends up it's blatantly obvious that the competitive Melee scene isn't going anywhere. The two games will co-exist just fine. If Melee/Brawl can (somewhat) co-exist then I'm pretty damn sure Smash 4 can as well.

A more relevant and thought provoking question is if Smash 4 will kill off Brawl.

Regardless this thread is just going to turn into a pissing match between the pro Melee and anti-Melee crowd.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Uh...that's what I was saying. You can't compare Wiimote interference to the Pro Controller and Gamepad. Classic Controller went through the wiimote to the IR bar so it had the same problem.

sooooo

you're suggesting people use the Wiimote?

 

[Johnknight1]

Will Smash 4 kill the Melee Star?

You don't say...

That doesn't say "hey guys, let's slander 64, Melee, and Brawl and proclaim a new game is better!"

It merely implies "will Smash 4's take away from Melee in terms of competitive exposure and attendance?"

And if it doesn't, then that's grounds for closing this thread, because any such thread goes against Smashboards rules, and the starter of this thread should expect infractions.

 

[R0Y]

>Bluetooth
>>High tech
>>>Seems legit

Can't wait for you to bust out your Game Boy Camera and call it "high tech".

I understand that you spend you entire life on 4chan and watching people play video games...but you have no idea what you're talking about. Not even reading the rest of your post, your arrogance (which is strange because you have no reason to be arrogant) betrays your ignorance.

'Dat salt.

 

[R0Y]

sooooo

you're suggesting people use the Wiimote?

No....I'm clearly saying the Wiimote (and all its accessories) are bad, old, and relies on a freaking sensor bar. Please understand.