Will Smash 4 kill the Melee Star?

[ryuu seika]

There is absolutely no way Smash 4 will keep all, or even much of melee's extreme technical requirements. To many, it will be all the better for it but, even to those people, top level Melee play will always be the most blatant display of dexterity, precision, reaction time and all round skill that the series has to offer.

If Smash 4 provides exactly what we expect right now, there is a good chance that it will outdo Melee in terms of popularity but, even if it does, Melee players will still command the same level of respect from the community that they've always had.

 

[A Lucky Person]

Diehard Melee players/fans will always have their superiority complex regardless of how good Smash 4 turns out to be.

If it turns out to be "Brawl 2.0" they'll treat it as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and if it's similar/better mechanic-wise than Melee they'll be too proud to admit it. If the latter is the case, the community will shift to Smash 4, but it'll take the diehards a while to get down off of their high horses and come along.

As you can tell I've had some bad encounters with Melee fanatics.

If you're a Melee fan but aren't a total elitist, then good on ya!

 

[Aguki90]

Melee is like the Pokemon Blue/Red version people like them soo much, they never go to the next part of series, they just stop there. That why Melee fanbase is big.
But I hope Smash bros 4 will be, the next fav. tournaments of Smash, Sakurai is doing a wonderful job with the game and the balancing the character and becoming a true fighting genre than any other of the series. Even Melee. In sakurai we trust.

 

[Orngeblu]

To answer your question, nope, not even close. It won't even scratch the surface

 

[PokéMurio]

Melee is incredible but I want Smash 4 to make things right and be a huge success so people will see Melee isn't a perfect game.


However, I guess most Melee fans will ignore SSB4 completely.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

You cant even play it on Gamecube controllers without an adapter though..

A gamecube controller makes not a good game. The pro controller is perfectly suited to the game in the same way that the GameCube controller is. I completely understand people sticking to Melee if the gameplay remains superior. If Smash 4 turns out to be the more technical game, however, and there's an audience that stick to Melee for their gamecube controller, then that'd be downright crazy.

The adapters aren't great, either way. There's input lag, and that's enough for me to say that there's no competitive edge in using the GameCube controller over the pro. If anybody can find a source comparing the adapter's input lag to the standard wireless lag I'd be interested to read it - I couldn't find one myself.

 

[Celestis]

Seeing as how Smash 4 just looks like a faster and less random version of Brawl. I don't think this will really effect the Melee players to much. They might try the game. But I don't see Melee going anywhere.

 

[Souless_shadow]

I think there is a possibility that Smash 4 will become the new tournament favorite. But there is now way that it will get rid of the Melee community. I'm sure that some melee players will switch to Smash 4,others may play both and some will not even try it. And I'm ok with the people that stick to melee after trying Smash 4.But I'm not ok with people that don't even try the game but will still insult it endlessly even though they have had no experience with it.

 

[TimeSmash]

I'm in that awkward position where I just want both to succeed.

 

[Renji64]

You gotta love how people wanna hate on melee players for not wanting to play lesser competieve installments of the game. The games can co-exist they are different people will stick to what they like I have nothing respect for melee players. I'll be playing smash 4 I hope that everyone can enjoy. Stop comparing smash to pokemon they are nothing alike.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Hmmm.. less alive than vastly less preferred? Idk how to establish better or worse without stepping on people's toes. Clearly saying more or less fun isn't right since that's like saying "no don't like taste x like taste y" so I'll use better in the sense of keeping a larger player base over a long period of time. In which case melee is better than brawl whatever aspects make it *better* would most likely have to be in smash 4 or even better/improved in smash 4 to make the game replace melee/PM. I think initial hype will spur s4 but long term longevity (consistent utils over time) and sustainability of the game rely on it drawing the competitive crowd more than melee or other titles.

And IMO it would probably have to basically resemble melee 2.0 to do so in terms of speed and combo playstyle, wave dashing and such need not be in there bust more so having the speed and aggression of melee while maintaining as many attack and playstyle options as melee, personally I wish PM was the prime game but meh melee is the chosen one apparently.

so wave dashing and l canceling -.-

 

[RODO]

Just because there is the possibility of it having less depth than melee doesn't mean it can't be a competitive success. Look at league of legends for example. Technically being an RTS, when compared to games such as starcraft it is MUCH simpler. As a starcraft player I was at first confused as to why the game was so competitive but I gave it a chance and it is a fun game. We just need to hope that Smash 4 is fun to play competitively and it should take off.

 

[The Real Gamer]

The answer to the OP's question is simply: no.

The two games can and will co-exist.

/thread

 

[Khao]

At this point, even if every competitive player around the world agrees that Smash 4 is a better game in every way, and it's far more competitive friendly than every other game in the series, Melee will not just die off.

And that's okay.

There's nothing wrong with playing multiple different games. It's not like people only stick to their favorite game while not playing anything else, everyone likes multiple things, and different Smash games are no exception, you don't just stop doing something you like just because there's another thing you like even more.

 

[HodgyDot]

A gamecube controller makes not a good game. The pro controller is perfectly suited to the game in the same way that the GameCube controller is. I completely understand people sticking to Melee if the gameplay remains superior. If Smash 4 turns out to be the more technical game, however, and there's an audience that stick to Melee for their gamecube controller, then that'd be downright crazy.

The adapters aren't great, either way. There's input lag, and that's enough for me to say that there's no competitive edge in using the GameCube controller over the pro. If anybody can find a source comparing the adapter's input lag to the standard wireless lag I'd be interested to read it - I couldn't find one myself.

I was more saying people will be even more reluctant to switch even if the game is technical and has a good average of balance, because of A) They will need to switch controllers B) Get an adapter and adjust to the input difference .

 

[Reader]

People have, have always had and will always have opinions. And since people are different, we will have different opinions. Melee fans have many good reasons to prefer melee, even if the new games would be excellent. I hope we can all respect each others opinions. As Voltaire said: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".

 

[Pyra]

My input:
Melee was a good game. I hope Smash 4 is better.
But there is absolutely no "replacement" necessary.

 

[D-idara]

Melee will never be killed. Even if Smash 4 was nearly identical to Melee in every way with one or two miniscule variations, Melee players would never stop playing Melee. They've devoted twelve and a half years to that game. They're not going to stop now. They don't care about better graphics, new characters, updated movesets, tweaked balance. They feel no need for change. They want to play the same game they've been playing all this time.

I like how your post never leans towards the negative or positive side of that fact o.o Feels a little odd.

And it's pretty clear at this point that Smash4 will be MUCH better than Melee...My Music, FOCUS ON BALANCE (Yeah, goodbye, 7 viable Melee characters), beautiful graphics, amazing animations and expressive characters, a thousand times the amount of content, fast, non-twitchy, fluid gameplay, FD versions of all stages so you can stop complaining about how this and that stage feels 'intrusive', Megaman, possibility of Ridley, anyone who plays Smash more as a fighting game than a Nintendo crossover should be ashamed of themselves.

You cant even play it on Gamecube controllers without an adapter though..

Is that supposed to be a bad thing...? You've got like 10 controller options and you're still latching on to the GCN, dangling from its wired connection?

 

[The Real Gamer]

I like how your post never leans towards the negative or positive side of that fact o.o Feels a little odd.

And it's pretty clear at this point that Smash4 will be MUCH better than Melee...My Music, FOCUS ON BALANCE (Yeah, goodbye, 7 viable Melee characters), beautiful graphics, amazing animations and expressive characters, a thousand times the amount of content, fast, non-twitchy, fluid gameplay, FD versions of all stages so you can stop complaining about how this and that stage feels 'intrusive', Megaman, possibility of Ridley, anyone who plays Smash more as a fighting game than a Nintendo crossover should be ashamed of themselves.

People might start taking your posts more seriously if you weren't so condescending all the time.

Just some food for thought.

 

[D-idara]

People might start taking your posts more seriously if you weren't so condescending all the time.

Just some food for thought.

I like how your post never leans towards the negative or positive side of that fact o.o Feels a little odd.

Actually, I was being serious with that, I can't tell if the post is exactly saying that's good or bad :I

 

[Steelia]

I seriously doubt Smash 4 will replace SSBM competitively, though it wouldn't surprise me if it ends up being higher in attendance for a few years after release. But I feel the relationship between competitive Smash 4 & Melee players will be MUCH better in comparison to how it is with SSBB today.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I like how your post never leans towards the negative or positive side of that fact o.o Feels a little odd.

Actually, I was being serious with that, I can't tell if the post is exactly saying that's good or bad :I

That comment wasn't aimed towards that particular post but just your posting style in general.

I've always noticed that you have a very "holier than thou" attitude towards those that prefer Melee or competitive Smash in general, which almost always leads to controversial statements like the following:

anyone who plays Smash more as a fighting game than a Nintendo crossover should be ashamed of themselves.

What do posts like these accomplish? If you're trying to get a point across more people will respect your opinion if you can do so without resorting to cheap shots and ad hominem, otherwise you're no better than the "elitists" that you so often criticize.

I'll say no more since I'm derailing the thread.

 

[Frostwraith]

All right people, calm down.

I believe @FalKoopa has previously warned about this thread likeliness to become a flame war. Keep things civil.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Smash 4 is unlikely to kill Melee, but hopefully it will go some way to patching the schism in the community.

Brawl didn't need to be better than Melee to be a hit with fans, it just needed to not be significantly different. Which it was.

Smash 4 is very likely to replace Brawl, though, and a lot of Melee players are likely to want to play Smash 4 as well. By next year I expect to see a subtle shrinking of the Melee tournament scene, and a significant reduction of the Brawl scene. The Smash 4 scene will be gargantuan.

 

[mimgrim]

Literally nothing against Melee, but I would love for Smash 4 to become the new tournament fave. I can't help but see it as a good thing if a new Smash title potentially reaches the hype of Melee and exceeding it in popularity. The community needs to grow and it's a lot easier to get people into a new Smash Bros. than it is Melee. As hype as the matches are, the Melee players have been playing for years and are just too stacked for new players to start making their mark competitively. It's a long way up even to the bottom rung. The new game is going to bring in a bunch of new faces who can competitively experience the game with a lot more people near their skill level so they can experience tournament success incrementally.

No Melee vs. ____ BS please.

Impossible.

No point in even discussing this. A big part of the Melee community didn't even bother with PM, I don't see why they would with Smash 4.

But something that people seem to not understand: the two Smash games can and will coexist together, there's no reason they can't. Smash 4 will have a competitive scene (hopefully a big one, it depends on how the game turns out), but Melee picked up a lot of steam in the last year, enough to guaranty a longer, healthy, lifespan. Melee isn't a disease-ridden animal of some sort, people should stop trying to actively replace it.

You guys aren't listening to this. Both games are awesome in their own right, there. Your Brawl x Melee thing is over.

Moving on, I would love to see all 4(well, 6? PM being its own?) all have a fun competitive nature without the whole idea that one must be superior. Because that's just plain subjective and there's seriously no reason to avoid other versions regardless. Keep in mind I more or less find Brawl fairly bad compared to the previous two. What people are missing is that is not a big deal nor is it "bad" to have preferences. What seems to be the issue, is that as a competitive standard, Melee has driven out the other 3 games(Brawl, 64, PM) instead. That should be avoided. It's fine if some are more popular, but only if it doesn't come with some bad attitude, you know?

Quoted for truth.

The Melee scene won't die, nor should it (nor should you want it to). There's a reason the Melee scene has gotten as big as it has, in fact it owes some of that success to the other parts of the Smash community (Brawl included). Most of the, if not all, people that you see posting stuff about how Brawl isn;t competitive or that Melee should die ect.. are extremists on both sides. And really don't represent either side all that well because they are, in the end, just a very vocal minority in the end. Smash4 looks to have the potential to up Melee in the go to Smash game for tournaments but it will ultimately depend on the community to make that a reality and nothing else. But it won't ever kill Melee, for the are just too many players deeply rooted into that game but that isn't a bad thing.

 

[Deleted member]

Short answer: No

Long answer: Melee has picked up a lot of steam as of recent, was at EVO last year, and is going to be there this year. The Melee scene is here to stay for quite a while. That doesn't mean that Smash 4 won't have a pro scene though. If it's better than Brawl in terms of being competitive (which it's looking like it is), it's likely to have a decently large competitive scene. It's not like the games can't co-exist, Melee isn't some dying pet that we need to replace with the new kitten that is Smash 4.

 

[Renji64]

Only one game is getting replace is brawl because it was nothing special at all.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Only one game THAT I THINK IS getting replace is brawl because it was nothing special at all.

*Fixed*

 

[Z25]

No, however I think it may weaken it a bit and become a great game for the competitive scene.

 

[chronomantic]

The nostalgia bias won't ever allow to replace Melee as much as the new game is better in the competitive sense. But who cares, to each their own. Hope that at least some people won't be THAT annoying about it.

 

[Downdraft]

@---

No, if anything the Smash 4 scene could be nothing but new faces.

I think it'd be wonderful if the Smash 4 scene was dominated by a bunch of unknown or previously unremarkable names like myself.

You gotta love how people wanna hate on melee players for not wanting to play lesser competieve installments of the game. The games can co-exist they are different people will stick to what they like I have nothing respect for melee players. I'll be playing smash 4 I hope that everyone can enjoy. Stop comparing smash to pokemon they are nothing alike.

Yeah, there's no point in making sweeping generalizations, hating people you don't know, or attacking a game. Instead, we should be striving to do what we can to make things better. If vitriol should be directed anywhere, it ought to be towards the developers, but we can see that they're already trying to make amends.

 

[pickle962]

Thanks for all your input guys! As much as I love Melee, as a wise person once said, "if you love something VERY much, you must be willing to let it go" and if smash 4 does make a name for itself on the competitive scene like at EVO, APEX, or even MLG, I can eventually see more tourney goers playing it than Melee. Just my two cents though. Anyway, for anyone who's played Tekken competitively, what type of game is it? Technical, fast paced, mind gamey, what?

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Thanks for all your input guys! As much as I love Melee, as a wise person once said, "if you love something VERY much, you must be willing to let it go" and if smash 4 does make a name for itself on the competitive scene like at EVO, APEX, or even MLG, I can eventually see more tourney goers playing it than Melee. Just my two cents though. Anyway, for anyone who's played Tekken competitively, what type of game is it? Technical, fast paced, mind gamey, what?

Tekken is pretty slow compared to a lot of fighters; not very technical, though, lots of simple combos.
Metagame can be complex; the characters have crazy numbers of moves, so predicting your opponent is hard.

 

[Renji64]

*Fixed*

smash 4 will be better than brawl in everyway possible it is pretty much a given.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

smash 4 will be better than brawl in everyway possible it is pretty much a given.

Im not caring about hat i was just making sure that people understand that that was opinionated.
I personally think smash 4 will be alot more like a Smash 64 2.0
witch will be better than anything the later installments have 2 offer.

 

[[TSON]]

it would be nice for the entire community to unite for ssb4 rather than continuing to have threads like these where we argue over who's right and who's wrong for supporting game x and game y

 

[D-idara]

Tekken is pretty slow compared to a lot of fighters; not very technical, though, lots of simple combos.
Metagame can be complex; the characters have crazy numbers of moves, so predicting your opponent is hard.

I'm glad Namco Bandai and not Capcom is helping with Smash4, Tekken is as close as intuitive as fighting games get, along with MK9.

 

[guedes the brawler]

They have all the right to go back to their precious oldies, but they don't have the right to insult the superior, newer game on every board they can find.

this is subjective. your attitude is just as toxic as theirs.

 

[guedes the brawler]

I'm glad Namco Bandai and not Capcom is helping with Smash4, Tekken is as close as intuitive as fighting games get, along with MK9.

Injustice does a good job with being intuitive, and so does Persona 4 arena

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Injustice does a good job with being intuitive, and so does Persona 4 arena

Persona 4?
might as well add blazblue and guilty gear since there more complex.