Will Little Mac be banned from tournaments?

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Grabs > Super Armor.

And did you see that recovery?

If you're a Mac main fighting Marth, SWITCH.

Shield-grabbing would have to become a necessity then. The Brawl CPU was almost always flawless with that maneuver, but it's probably another story for human players who don't pay attention to the vulnerable frames enough times.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Shield-grabbing would have to become a necessity then. The Brawl CPU was almost always flawless with that maneuver, but it's probably another story for human players who don't pay attention to the vulnerable frames enough times.

I tend to give my opponents the benefit of the doubt and assume that they use a core mechanic that has been around in Smash since the beginning. If we're going to discuss how to beat inexperienced players, picking Marth and spamming FSmash works just as well.

Mac does seem like a noob-slayer, though.

 

[SSS]

Guys it didn't look like he could build it up over time. In the video it looks like he builds it up by standing there and charging, then releasing. I don't think it's like a Lucario thing and more like a DK thing with a meter to look more canonical. You might not even be able to hold your charge. Seems like it's for a harsh punish after a shield break.

His shield pressure looks pretty dope though. . .

 

[lordvaati]

Not even close. He is a close ranged rushdown powerhouse who is Offset by having possibly the worst recovery and air game. The KO move can easily be punished and/or avoided just like Roy's.

I actually made a little chart of potential requirements for bans....needless to say, Mac didn't really fit any( I'll add the chart after I wake up later.)

 

[ZanZero]

From the looks of it Mac is incredibly balanced when it comes to this move.
On the part of his reveal trailer where he KOs Bowser and Megaman, they sped the video up. I figure it builds up over one stock as you do damage, and looking at how he didn't take a single hit of damage during that sped up scene, I'd also wager you lose it if you're hit. He seems like a character based around doing quick amounts of damage and dodge/countering to build up his bar, and then unleashing it on his opponents in a OHKO. Nothing too scary, get him off the stage and he's done for.
Edgeless stages like the boxing ring though... I could see that being a huge upper hand for Mac.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

All the characters will be banned. Everyone except Fox and Metaknight. I'm already stoked just thinking about it.

 

[Morbi]

I am sorry, I didn't read the thread in its entirity, but the competitive scene isn't necessarily content with banning characters (Meta Knight). It resolves to ban items (obviously) and stages that favor characters. Little Mac's OHKO move isn't going to get him banned in the same way that Ice Climbers aren't banned despite infinite combos (wobbling, chain-grabbing). Mac is going to be fine.

 

[Katy Parry]

It doesn't seem as easily avoidable to me. We don't know if it has a paralyzing mechanic (like the Zelda characters FS) etc.

I see it being a problem right after a back throw.

And yes, I understand that moves can be dodged, but let's pretend LM player knows what he's doing, you know?

Most players that are saying "Oh its easily dodged." And I can see that. But I feel like down the line people will start complaining he basically has a free final smash.

I get its supposed to compensate but still. I honestly don't care either way. This is just for arguments sake, and trying to get others to think about it.

 

[Fenrir VII]

?

In case this wasn't clear...

We know practically NOTHING about this move. We don't know how the power meter builds up (by hitting people and not getting hit, by charging, etc). We don't know the range or speed of the attack, and we don't know if he'll have any combos into it.

Heck, we don't even know if it WILL be a 1HKO (See the DK picture).

Speculating at this point if Mac will be banned is a ridiculous hobby.


Also, if it is true to the games, and he loses a chunk of power when he gets hit, then nobody will ever have a reason to complain about him.

"ugh that punch is so broken...."
"Well, you should have hit me..."

In related news, Mac is going to be a hilarious noob punisher...

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think that he will be banned. I think it matters what his match-ups are going to be like. I mean, if it's extreme like Meta Knight, then he would get banned.

While he does have a OHKO move, it looks like it will take a while to charge up. So, you have to know when to properly use it when it's fully charged. I think that there is a possibility that it might be a hard move to land a hit with.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Little Mac's problems may come from those who are grab-happy, since grabs outrank invincibility frames. This could mean that a well-timed block will leave Little Mac vulnerable to getting crushed by his adversary's grab game.

Simply put, Little Mac may end up getting annihilated by fighters like King Dedede and the Ice Climbers, especially if the latter can pummel him to death. And Rosalina can use her Luma partner to deliver a powerful blow after she throws Little Mac towards it.

 

[S_B]

I am sorry, I didn't read the thread in its entirity, but the competitive scene isn't necessarily content with banning characters (Meta Knight). It resolves to ban items (obviously) and stages that favor characters. Little Mac's OHKO move isn't going to get him banned in the same way that Ice Climbers aren't banned despite infinite combos (wobbling, chain-grabbing). Mac is going to be fine.

Also, if you watch the trailer, we don't get a very good idea of how long it takes for the move to happen.

And of course he won't be banned. No one has ever been banned in the history of SSB, right?

 

[lordvaati]

Also, if you watch the trailer, we don't get a very good idea of how long it takes for the move to happen.

And of course he won't be banned. No one has ever been banned in the history of SSB, right?

Meta Knight was banned when the URC was around, and still is occasionally banned at events.

Kirby was joked at being banned in 64, but never officially to my knowledge.

 

[Black Mantis]

Stop being scrubs people.

 

[ETWIST51294]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Jigglypuff.
Rest.
/Thread

 

[Morbi]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Jigglypuff.
Rest.
/Thread

Jigglypuff's rest is not a OHKO move.

Also, if you watch the trailer, we don't get a very good idea of how long it takes for the move to happen.

And of course he won't be banned. No one has ever been banned in the history of SSB, right?

I believe that Meta Knight was actually banned... but then un-banned? I wasn't well-versed on the competitive scene during Brawl.

 

[stan423321]

I believe that Meta Knight was actually banned... but then un-banned? I wasn't well-versed on the competitive scene during Brawl.

MK was banned by the "One True Best Ruleset" team (it wasn't called like that, mind you, was it Unity Ruleset? Not sure). For reasons related or unrelated to this, many OTBR users did switch to different rulesets, and at some point OTBR team admitted defeat. I'm not aware of a major ruleset that kept the ban afterwards.

OHKO move is a fairly lesser problem than you may think of. Now, if Mac had an OHKO jab, that would be problematic. But he doesn't. He has a punch that charges somehow. How does it exactly charge, we don't know, so let's wait with ban talk. (I expect it to be a cross between Falcon Punch and Giant Punch with it being cancellable, but meter leaking fast while not being charged. But that's for another topic, I guess.)

 

[lordvaati]

And here is my criteria thing.

Reasonable criteria for ban:
-if a character has no true weaknesses,bad matups or bad stages
-if a character requires constant modifications to their tech or play style to keep them legal(ex. Ledge grab Limit or IDC ban)
-if an arguably legal neutral/counter pick is ban able for ONLY that character's exploiis and nothing else
-if a character's tech creates a true inescapable 0-death combo
-if a characters tech creates a game crashing bug
-if a character has properties that absolutely limit certain basic moves(ex. Giga Bowser not having a Grab box)
-if a character generates an 66% or higher win rate in tournaments in the country

If a character meets 4/7 of the requirements, they can be banned. If they meet 3/7 of these, then a community vote can be compiled for legality or a proposal for soft ban can be made.

As of the current moment, Mac fits none of these, and probably never will.

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

I doubt it.
He's a combo-centric character.
And pros love that.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Jigglypuff's rest is not a OHKO move.

Actually, lemme correct myself. Melee Jigglypuff. Rest.

And yes, most likely if you got hit by a rest you are going to die.

 

[Morbi]

Actually, lemme correct myself. Melee Jigglypuff. Rest.

And yes, most likely if you got hit by a rest you are going to die.

Yes, of course, it isn't necessarily a OHKO move though. That was the only point I was attempting to make.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Yes, of course, it isn't necessarily a OHKO move though. That was the only point I was attempting to make.

Ahh yea true. Honestly, I don't even really take sakurai seriously. Didn't he say another move was an OHKO? Like, I think he's sees "Very High Knockback =/= OHKO". But even if it is like a homerun bat type OHKO I can't see it being a huge deal because of the meter.

 

[Remioli]

Every time there's a new character reveal, a thread like this pops up talking about what moves are OP and ridiculous over analyzation.

Good god, why don't you guys just get a tier list together already?

 

[Morbi]

Ahh yea true. Honestly, I don't even really take sakurai seriously. Didn't he say another move was an OHKO? Like, I think he's sees "Very High Knockback =/= OHKO". But even if it is like a homerun bat type OHKO I can't see it being a huge deal because of the meter.

Yes, I don't think that Little Mac actually has a OHKO move. As you stated, it is most likely like the home run bat. So that is even less of a reason to ban Little Mac, even if it WAS a OHKO move, I don't believe he would be banned... but it isn't even that. So he is fine.

 

[nat pagle]

Every time there's a new character reveal, a thread like this pops up talking about what moves are OP and ridiculous over analyzation.

Good god, why don't you guys just get a tier list together already?

We like to discuss possibilities, otherwise most of these character forums need to be shut down over speculation.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Every time there's a new character reveal, a thread like this pops up talking about what moves are OP and ridiculous over analyzation.

Good god, why don't you guys just get a tier list together already?

If we are waiting till just now to generate a tier list then we are doing it wrong. We should have had a tier list back in June 2013 clearly.


I nominate Miss Fit Trainer for Top tier for the over powering knockback of her Down-B. Not to mention that chain grab to ftilt to fair spike combo is just beast. Why we haven't banned her yet is beyond me.

 

[Nick Schovitz]

I can't believe we're calling bans before anyone has had the chance to play with him.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

TIRE LIST

Mac Tier
Mac
Fox

Marth Tier
Marth
Wii Fit Trainer

WTF Tier
Wii Fit Trainer (Again)
Rosaluma
Villager

Third Party Tier
Mega Man
Sonic

Veterans Tier
The Other Guys

Permanent Ivan Ooze Tier
Kingvan Doodoodooze

 

[kylexv]

Seems like Mac's aerials and recovery aren't very good.
And at the part with the meter, notice the flames on Little Mac's Icon on the HUD. The flames are sped up. Charging up the power meter is longer than it seems.
Little Mac will not be banned.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Here's another one that's nearly one hit ko move

So if your correct both dedede and donkey kong will be banned as well

 

[Enlong]

Well there's that, but we did see that he managed to KO both Mega Man and Bowser at low percentages, so maybe it is a OHKO.

He did not.

Look closely at the power meter clip. Just before Mac throws the punch, you can see Bowser's damage meter again for a split second, and he has like 237% or something.

 

[Medaka444]

The only bans I've heard of are Meta Knight from Brawl (if briefly) and almost Sheik in Melee, until it became obvious that Fox and Falco were a bit better, if more difficult to use to their fullest.

What I'm saying is that people are jumping to conclusions.

 

[FlynnCL]

Here's another one that's nearly one hit ko move

So if your correct both dedede and donkey kong will be banned as well

...Toon Link looks huge.

 

[mimgrim]

If you guys pay attention to the trailer you'll actually realize that it's a pretty balanced mechanic in 1 v 1 situations since he literally has to charge it right in front of you face. Go to 1:45 and take note of how it takes 3 full seconds to get the punch off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmtrmAvL5aw#t=118

Probably gonna be a ***** to deal with in free for alls though. lol

I think that was just sped up for the trailer. And since he has his own meter it's possible he doesn't have to stand in place to charge but rather it charges while he fights.

 

[SchAlternate]

...Toon Link looks huge.

Size disproportions? Ridley confirmed!