Smash Wii U Wii U is hackable - Will there be mods again?

[NintendoKnight]

ur a hd remix

j/k.

On a side note, I want to make a statement of why I don't want another Project M. This is coming from a player who likes Brawl over Melee. You have been warned.

I never approved of the P:M mod in the first place. When the Melee/Brawl divide happened, I found myself on the Brawl side, and I was sick of always hearing that Brawl was inferior to Melee.

"Fine then, if you don't like the game I like, go play your own!" Is how I felt. "Just stop hating the game I like."

But they didn't. Instead, they took the game I liked and made it into the game they liked.

It wasn't the mod itself I had the problem with. It was the principle. It was why they did it.

"If they didn't like my game, why did they have to mess with my game?" Because they said my game was not good enough. It "needed" improvement. The developers have "no idea" what they're doing and need a "little help."

They made it sound as if liking the game made me a terrible person. Or that I was incapable of playing at the level that these guys played at... Just because I played Brawl. That's how it felt.

Project M, as a whole, looked like one big letter to Sakurai that said "You Suck!"

Time passed, I eventually got over it. I played Project M. It was fun...for a couple weeks. I enjoyed one half of what they did with it, and hated the other half.

But I had an open mind and tried it. I understood why people liked this game, and Melee. But...no one wanted to understand why I liked Brawl.

Honestly, seeing this even brought up as a question made me recall some bad memories of those Melee/Brawl wars. It reminded me of why I didn't want to be part of the competitive community, back then. I still cringe at the thought of those days.

But those days are in the past, and they should remain in the past. Project M is a one-time deal. We don't need another division in a community that's already full of division as it is.

Just let each game be its own thing. Support the series as a whole. Don't hate any of the other titles in the series, and respect everyone! And bring back Smash 64, it's the best.

There we go, that's my opinion. Like it or hate it, but don't disrespect it.

 

[Deleted member]

But those days are in the past, and they should remain in the past. Project M is a one-time deal. We don't need another division in the community, already full of division as it is.

Just let each game be its own thing. Support the series as a whole. Don't hate any of the other titles in the series, and respect everyone! And bring back Smash 64, it's the best.

I really wish it wasn't this way, but division is inevitable. Regardless of how Smash 4 ends up playing, there will be divisions, flame wars, bashing, and hatred.

But I'd love to be wrong about this.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I really wish it wasn't this way, but division is inevitable. Regardless of how Smash 4 ends up playing, there will be divisions, flame wars, bashing, and hatred.

But I'd love to be wrong about this.

I'd love you to be wrong about this too. But, I remain hopeful that we can at least come to an understanding. (Fat chance, I know)

Melee is my least-favorite entry in the series. But I'll still support it.

Just wished everyone would still support the other games, though they don't play them.

 

[Book Jacket]

Opinion

I really want to stress that your opinion is fine, and I'm not trying to tell you how to feel about the topic.

That being said, I also want to say the Project M is in no way an insult to the developers of Brawl. In fact, a good deal of the top PM players were Brawl players. Junebug, for example.

PM is in no way an improved Brawl, though some do make that claim. Project M is its own game, separate from Melee or Brawl. It isn't pretending to be either of those games. It's a game by the Smash competitive community for the Smash competitive community. And yeah, there are some uppity jerk-wads who will tell you that Brawl is absolute crap and that Melee is the god-of-Smash-all-praise-Melee, but there will always be uppity jerk-wads in every community, be it Smash, other video games, youtube, sports, religion, science, literature, or the intellectual expert aficionados of Chinese Checkers.

PM isn't about that. It's just a bunch of people who thought "Brawl and Melee both had some good stuff, but neither of them really do it, so let's rework Brawl into a community-driven competitive Smash game."

I mean they might not have thought those exact words but I think you get the point.

 

[Pyra]

The fact that it was designed to discourage our type of play elevates it in your eyes? Is that's what it takes to please you guys? You need to be the sole focus?

This is precisely the point I would stop "discussing" it with you if I was in the first place.

Arguments aren't worth it, especially when one side is purposefully trying to antagonize the other.

Besides that melee has provided me with something new every time I've sat down to play it, or watch a stream. Playing somebody for the first time is always new and exciting. Discovering new tech always makes things feel fresh.

...Then why not just play Melee and stop antagonizing people who want to play Smash 4? Considering you want something "good and familiar" and not something "new".

 

[NintendoKnight]

I really want to stress that your opinion is fine, and I'm not trying to tell you how to feel about the topic.

That being said, I also want to say the Project M is in no way an insult to the developers of Brawl. In fact, a good deal of the top PM players were Brawl players. Junebug, for example.

PM is in no way an improved Brawl, though some do make that claim. Project M is its own game, separate from Melee or Brawl. It isn't pretending to be either of those games. It's a game by the Smash competitive community for the Smash competitive community. And yeah, there are some uppity jerk-wads who will tell you that Brawl is absolute crap and that Melee is the god-of-Smash-all-praise-Melee, but there will always be uppity jerk-wads in every community, be it Smash, other video games, youtube, sports, religion, science, literature, or the intellectual expert aficionados of Chinese Checkers.

PM isn't about that. It's just a bunch of people who thought "Brawl and Melee both had some good stuff, but neither of them really do it, so let's rework Brawl into a community-driven competitive Smash game."

I mean they might not have thought those exact words but I think you get the point.

I totally get it, I really do.

I did have more fun with Project M than I did with Melee in more recent years. And I will forever refer to P:M as the greatest fan-made mod I have ever seen.

 

[Jumpman84]

Scotty, I came to the realization long ago that they'll never care that they don't have to play competitively or pick up a mod. The casual elitist just boggles the mind. I don't know why I keep replying to any of them.

It's the principle of the thing!

Smash 4 doesn't "need" to be modded, because it isn't about should/shouldn't, or need/needn't, but of can/can't.

I ended up writing a thesis on the subject (because I have zero discipline as a writer), and as a result of its length, I'll collapse it via spoiler tags; the tl;dr version will be found below.

A very good analysis, though there is a major flaw. People writing fan fiction based on their favorite books and movies aren't setting out to replace the original content, but rather to exist alongside it. Project M seeks to overwrite Brawl completely and fully. And it's succeeded both figuratively and literally (you're literally overwriting the Brawl files with Project M ones).

 

[κomıc]

Besides that melee has provided me with something new every time I've sat down to play it, or watch a stream. Playing somebody for the first time is always new and exciting. Discovering new tech always makes things feel fresh.

I don't mean to be rude, but really? A game rushed for a console's launch in 2001 still to this day has new "tech" being discovered?
As I understand, it sounds like you're only looking at Smash Bros 4 from the competitive side.

I personally don't look at it that way. For me, Smash Bros will forever be a fan-service first and competitive game last. Some people look at it the same way I do and some are just excited for that aspect. The trophies, characters, stages, etc.

Of course, when I do attend local tournaments, I do take stocks from some of the better players around, but still.

 

[Giga Man]

I don't care if they make a new Project M. I'm fine with the current one. I just want to be able to continue modding Smash Bros.

 

[Sehnsucht]

A very good analysis, though there is a major flaw. People writing fan fiction based on their favorite books and movies aren't setting out to replace the original content, but rather to exist alongside it. Project M seeks to overwrite Brawl completely and fully. And it's succeeded both figuratively and literally (you're literally overwriting the Brawl files with Project M ones).

My analysis was made in a vacuum. I only considered Smash 4 as is, divorced from its relationship to previous Smash titles. This was mostly because I don't have enough knowledge about mods for those past games (e.g. P:M, Brawl-, etc.) to make any useful commentary.

While overwriting and modifying Brawl code is an inevitable requirement to modding Brawl, I can't comment all that much on whether Project M seeks to overwrite, replace, or eclipse Brawl in itself. This is because, again, I'm not as versed on the design philosophy of PM, nor of the specifics of its history with Brawl (and the two competitive scenes), the general consensus on either Smash experiences and their relationship to one another, and so on.

Ideally, I'd like to think that PM can exist harmoniously alongside the other Smash iterations and their respective communities. Mods as a whole don't (ideally) seek to "replace" the original game, much as how fan fiction doesn't seek to "replace" the original material.

However, whether Project M seeks to overwrite Brawl and/or Brawl's competitive (or casual) community is a topic I'm not sure I'm qualified enough to meaningfully discuss, and so I concede the floor (for now, anyhow).

Thanks for reading and appreciating my analysis, in any case. 8D

 

[ToastMiller]

Everyone who made PM played brawl... ( probably ) Nobody liked it because it wasn't the type of game they were looking for ( after the glorious attention melee got from the competitive world ) so they modded it. I played melee as a small child and like it. I wrecked everyone with brawl. But after I tried PM I couldn't even last a single match of brawl without throwing up. Imagine how horrible brawl must've been for those big melee players haha.

Honestly though making a new mod for sm4sh doesn't make any sense. I'd love to play w/ the new content ( characters and stages ) in a competitive friendly way. But we already have all this work done in PM, I'd like the idea of just adding all the cool stuff from sm4sh into PM but I've heard they can't do that ( sadface )

If somebody does end up making a PM sorta thing for sm4sh I'd definitely play it. But i don't appreciate all the smack talk about PM and all these supposed melee worshiping fools. I'm REALLY new to the competitive community, but it seems A LOT nicer than the casual community.

 

[---]

I like what Project M did for movesets and fan service but beyond that I don't really care.

If people are able to mod Smash 4 then by all means give us a playable ,, and . I would just hope that such changes would be also available within the style of the regular game so people can have their personal preference (assuming correctly gameplay mechanics are purposely altered significantly).

 

[ImaClubYou]

I never approved of the P:M mod in the first place. When the Melee/Brawl divide happened, I found myself on the Brawl side, and I was sick of always hearing that Brawl was inferior to Melee.

This is more of a point of view than anything. You shouldn't judge PM because of the problems of 2 different games even if PM IS Brawl. In fact, this statement shouldn't even exist. You don't approve of PM because you hate people who says Brawl is inferior to Melee? I don't get it.

"Fine then, if you don't like the game I like, go play your own!" Is how I felt. "Just stop hating the game I like."

Yeah. Spot on. Just remember that Brawl isn't innocent. They say the same to us just as we do.

But they didn't. Instead, they took the game I liked and made it into the game they liked.

.

This is an opinion, just as you say. BUT, people mod games. Not just Smash, right? Ever heard of Kaizo Mario, Garry's Mod, or other popular mods of popular games or even just hacks in general? All these mods are present to give a different experience of the game, not to replace it, but to turn it into the game they like. Which shouldn't be a problem for you unless you're all about copyright or stealing or anything like that.

It wasn't the mod itself I had the problem with. It was the principle. It was why they did it.

A group of individuals made a mod that took a very long time to make because they wanted to see what Brawl might've been if it was kept similar to Melee. Judging by the amount of downloads it has, the popularity it has among mainstream internet faces, and growing tournament scene, a lot of people like it. Not just Melee people, but people who used to exclusively play Brawl. The principal is they have the knowledge to make such a mod, so why not.

I wonder why you're only hating PM and not hating all mods of Brawl. Don't tell me because it's the popular one.

"If they didn't like my game, why did they have to mess with my game?" Because they said my game was not good enough. It "needed" improvement. The developers have "no idea" what they're doing and need a "little help."

Is this a real quote by one of the official PMBR members? If so, then bad, bad, bad.

They made it sound as if liking the game made me a terrible person. Or that I was incapable of playing at the level that these guys played at... Just because I played Brawl. That's how it felt.

Well, it's more or less your fault if you took it that hard. Whether or not you can actually play Melee at a high level is entirely unimportant. People who discriminate others just because they play a game they don't find interesting are incredibly immature.

I might say Brawl is butt myself when playing Melee, but that's me overemphasizing like a lot of people do with everything. I love Brawl it's a great game.

Project M, as a whole, looked like one big letter to Sakurai that said "You Suck!"

Point of view right? Not everyone can be happy with a decision. Even if you try to correct it someone will hate that decision, too. To me it's more like, "we love this game so much that we want to help it live as long as possible, even though we may have to change it a little."

Be mindful that the PMBR are pretty much bonafide developers themselves and this letter is clearly saying that "they suck"as well.

Time passed, I eventually got over it. I played Project M. It was fun...for a couple weeks. I enjoyed one half of what they did with it, and hated the other half.

Well, if you only played for 2 weeks you should try the newer demo's. They're very fun! And please don't tell me you only enjoyed the half that was Brawl and hated the half that was Melee. If so, I'll lose a lot of respect for you.

But I had an open mind and tried it. I understood why people liked this game, and Melee. But...no one wanted to understand why I liked Brawl.

Well, people understand why people like Brawl nowadays. Don't get me wrong, I never attended to these wars. I've seen a lot of good things from now that I really enjoyed. Metaknight isn't as scary as he used to be, though he is still scary in general.

Honestly, seeing this even brought up as a question made me recall some bad memories of those Melee/Brawl wars. It reminded me of why I didn't want to be part of the competitive community, back then. I still cringe at the thought of those days.

Irrelevant point, but okay. We shouldn't be bringing up the Melee Brawl wars in a PM subject because PM definitely did NOT spark the war. It definitely fuelled the war in Melee's favor, but not so much where it is Melee's War hero who killed(persuaded) Brawl players. If you need to blame a community, blame the Brawl community AND the Melee community.

But those days are in the past, and they should remain in the past. Project M is a one-time deal. We don't need another division in a community that's already full of division as it is.

This seems more like a biased opinion than a opinion. There is an impossible chance that Sm4sh will be trash. And a mod might be the only reason to buy a disc. I'm thinking that you may feel this way also, because Brawl might be the most likely candidate to be dropped for Sm4sh instead of Melee or PM because Sm4sh as it is now is very similar in feel and style as Brawl.

Just let each game be its own thing. Support the series as a whole. Don't hate any of the other titles in the series, and respect everyone! And bring back Smash 64, it's the best.

Well, if we let PM be its own thing we can ALL be happy, right? Support the series as a whole. By the community, it's part of its history as well. PM is part of the series. I respect everyone in the community. It's only the butt heads who actively seek out flame wars whose only purpose in life is to explain why this game is better than the other.

 

[Vkrm]

I don't mean to be rude, but really? A game rushed for a console's launch in 2001 still to this day has new "tech" being discovered?
As I understand, it sounds like you're only looking at Smash Bros 4 from the competitive side.

I personally don't look at it that way. For me, Smash Bros will forever be a fan-service first and competitive game last. Some people look at it the same way I do and some are just excited for that aspect. The trophies, characters, stages, etc.

Of course, when I do attend local tournaments, I do take stocks from some of the better players around, but still.

Melee absolutely has new tech being discovered all the time. That's why it's so popular for spectators. Vgboot camp is currently in #1 on twitch.

Oh my god you are being so short sighted and trying to pick arguments for the sake of it that it's not even funny.

You do realise that due to being a non US user, I had to go through extra trouble to get PM working on my Wii, and then went out of my way to make an ISO of it so I could play it on my laptop in Dolphin, and then forked out money for two Mayflash GC controller adapters for my PC, right?

I love PM. But I also recognise it's target audience, and I don't think a Smash 4 version is necessary. That's what my posts here were about. I have no incentive to bash PM itself, as I really love it.

And please don't talk to me like I'm "one of those Brawl peasants". I'm a Smash fan. Not an elitist of Melee or Brawl.

I wasn't addressing you directly, meant for my post to be a response for casual elitists who discredit pm. My fault for not specifying. Still have gripes with you insinuating pm is made exclusively for competitive players. So many little touches here there that don't affect tournaments.

 

[JV5Chris]

A game rushed for a console's launch in 2001 still to this day has new "tech" being discovered?

Players are still frequently breaking the boundries of what was previously thought to be possible. aMSa's Yoshi that's up next on Kings of Cali 4 is a great example of that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

At first I was really irritated by all the pm hate in this thread, but then I realized the people who hate on it feel probably threatened because a ragtag group of college kids can make something more appealing than a team of over 100 professional game designers. In their free time. Get bodied sakurai. Try again in 6 more years.

Melee's balance is actually quite remarkable all things considered. But why would you know that? You're just parroting what you perceive to be a valid criticism of melee's meta. Not based on actual research. If you think smash 4 is going to be as balanced I feel you're in for an unpleasant surprise.

Melee's on par if not slightly more balanced than Brawl by a small ammount.

PM is more balanced due to patching and even then it's questionable at times.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

PM hate.
Smash 4 hate.
Sakurai hate.
Arguments.

I knew this thread was going to head in this direction.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Could someone please explain to me how modding the game insults the game's creator? Does that mean DotA, Counterstrike, and DayZ are equally disrespectful? Should the creators of Skyrim feel resentment toward the Pokemon mod? Does Notch lack dignity for embracing the multitude of Minecraft mods?

If Sakurai was offended by P:M, I don't think he'd be straight up ripping moves from it and dropping them into Sm4sh. I've always seen P:M as more of a love letter to Melee rather than an outright rejection of Brawl, and I think Sakurai's already shown he sees some value in P:M's efforts.

I just don't get all the bashing over different Smash Bros. versions. It's not relevant to the OP. Let's all argue over which flavor of ice cream is superior and what our preferences say about each other, while we're at it. Makes about as much sense, and it answers the OP about as well.

 

[ToastMiller]

Could someone please explain to me how modding the game insults the game's creator? Does that mean DotA, Counterstrike, and DayZ are equally disrespectful? Should the creators of Skyrim feel resentment toward the Pokemon mod? Does Notch lack dignity for embracing the multitude of Minecraft mods?

If Sakurai was offended by P:M, I don't think he'd be straight up ripping moves from it and dropping them into Sm4sh. I've always seen P:M as more of a love letter to Melee rather than an outright rejection of Brawl, and I think Sakurai's already shown he sees some value in P:M's efforts.

I just don't get all the bashing over different Smash Bros. versions. It's not relevant to the OP. Let's all argue over which flavor of ice cream is superior and what our preferences say about each other, while we're at it. Makes about as much sense, and it answers the OP about as well.

What moves is sakurai taking from PM? I haven't noticed any.

 

[nessokman]

Only an idiot would think that those hacks will last. Nintendo will aggressively patch these hacks.

 

[Jumpman84]

If somebody does end up making a PM sorta thing for sm4sh I'd definitely play it. But i don't appreciate all the smack talk about PM and all these supposed melee worshiping fools. I'm REALLY new to the competitive community, but it seems A LOT nicer than the casual community.

Sure, they look all nice and friendly right now... but you should have been around back during Brawl's release...

The only reason I would be interested in a new one is the same reason I like Project M... new characters and costumes. But we shouldn't have to worry about that for five years at minimum. There'll be plenty of new content to hold us over.

 

[Maester]

Personally I hope Nintendo find a way to prevent this, not that I have anything against Project M but there's a difference between how the developers planned each character vs how the modders think it should be.

 

[ToastMiller]

Personally I hope Nintendo find a way to prevent this, not that I have anything against Project M but there's a difference between how the developers planned each character vs how the modders think it should be.

I don't get your point. Nintendo's game will still be available. It's not like PM erased brawl.

 

[Hong]

Only an idiot would think that those hacks will last. Nintendo will aggressively patch the hacks, and with miiverse as a tool, they could easily start banning players from their online services if needed.

While I agree that Nintendo won't let this last long, the first sentence was entirely unnecessary. :/

 

[NintendoKnight]

This is more of a point of view than anything. You shouldn't judge PM because of the problems of 2 different games even if PM IS Brawl. In fact, this statement shouldn't even exist. You don't approve of PM because you hate people who says Brawl is inferior to Melee? I don't get it.

I never said I hated anyone. By the way, my entire post was my point of view. That was what I was trying to demonstrate. It was my feelings on the subject, and my experience for why I felt a specific way.

Yeah. Spot on. Just remember that Brawl isn't innocent. They say the same to us just as we do.

I never said they were innocent. I, personally, never hated on Melee. I did grow up on Melee as well, just as every other Melee player did. I played Melee and Smash 64 a WHOLE bunch before Brawl.

.

This is an opinion, just as you say. BUT, people mod games. Not just Smash, right? Ever heard of Kaizo Mario, Garry's Mod, or other popular mods of popular games or even just hacks in general? All these mods are present to give a different experience of the game, not to replace it, but to turn it into the game they like. Which shouldn't be a problem for you unless you're all about copyright or stealing or anything like that.

Like I said, the mod itself wasn't the problem. Hacking Brawl never bothered me. In fact, I wished I could have done it myself, but I didn't have the skill-set or knowledge required for that. And when I did hack a small amount, Nintendo released a patch that would mess up Homebrew, so I just removed any few hacks I actually managed to put on my Wii.

A group of individuals made a mod that took a very long time to make because they wanted to see what Brawl might've been if it was kept similar to Melee. Judging by the amount of downloads it has, the popularity it has among mainstream internet faces, and growing tournament scene, a lot of people like it. Not just Melee people, but people who used to exclusively play Brawl. The principal is they have the knowledge to make such a mod, so why not.

I wonder why you're only hating PM and not hating all mods of Brawl. Don't tell me because it's the popular one.

Again, it wasn't the mod itself I had a problem with. I disliked the fact that Brawl was considered so bad that the PMBR actually attempted to "fix" it. (Though you said that wasn't their mindset when they did, and I believe you) I disliked Brawl+ too, btw. Again, Brawl hacking never bothered me.

However, it was when the community jumped to having Project M replace Brawl is where I got upset. I want to prevent this from happening to Sm4sh.

Is this a real quote by one of the official PMBR members? If so, then bad, bad, bad.

What do you mean by this, exactly? Nothing here is quoted from anyone or anything else. It's all written from my point of view. Much of this is how I felt back in the day, when this whole thing was still new.

Well, it's more or less your fault if you took it that hard. Whether or not you can actually play Melee at a high level is entirely unimportant. People who discriminate others just because they play a game they don't find interesting are incredibly immature.

I might say Brawl is butt myself when playing Melee, but that's me overemphasizing like a lot of people do with everything. I love Brawl it's a great game.

My fault? Possibly. Quite possibly.

I haven't discriminated anyone based on the game they like.

Point of view right? Not everyone can be happy with a decision. Even if you try to correct it someone will hate that decision, too. To me it's more like, "we love this game so much that we want to help it live as long as possible, even though we may have to change it a little."

Be mindful that the PMBR are pretty much bonafide developers themselves and this letter is clearly saying that "they suck"as well.

You should read the post I made after my first one. I shall state it again, here, for you to see. Project M is the greatest hack/mod I have ever seen/played. The highest quality the likes of which have hardly been seen before. There are other hacks for other games that are top-notch. But I say that Project M is among them.

Well, if you only played for 2 weeks you should try the newer demo's. They're very fun! And please don't tell me you only enjoyed the half that was Brawl and hated the half that was Melee. If so, I'll lose a lot of respect for you.

And what if I said "yes"? The part I hated was simply cosmetic changes to make it like Melee for no discernible reason. For example, the boring black victory screen. Was it really necessary? They even de-synched the laugh in Ganon's up-taunt, which made it horribly awkward. (Though they fixed Dedede's taunt sound de-synch, funny) It was small stuff. Which meant I was paying attention to all the changes and details that were changed or added. Some of which were pointless, and annoyed me because they were unnecessary changes. But, really it wasn't that big of a deal.

I should probably retract the part where I said "hated" with my experience with Project M.
Just small bits that I "disagree" with. You could call it nitpicking, but they did make a point to change it, so...

Also, I played 3.0. The trailer for that legitimately hyped me up, and I downloaded when it was released. And I actually would still play it now (just for something different for a change), but the guys I play Smash with prefer Brawl. And we wanted our custom stages back, so...yeah. (Gotta say though, I liked the individual stock option they added. Now, that was cool.)

Edit: Recalled something that I actually did dislike: What they did to Lucario. The changes they made to Lucario actually had nothing to do with Melee.

Well, people understand why people like Brawl nowadays. Don't get me wrong, I never attended to these wars. I've seen a lot of good things from now that I really enjoyed. Metaknight isn't as scary as he used to be, though he is still scary in general.

I agree with this sentiment, right here.

Irrelevant point, but okay. We shouldn't be bringing up the Melee Brawl wars in a PM subject because PM definitely did NOT spark the war. It definitely fuelled the war in Melee's favor, but not so much where it is Melee's War hero who killed(persuaded) Brawl players. If you need to blame a community, blame the Brawl community AND the Melee community.

I hold both communities responsible. Except the Smash 64 community, they were nice.

This seems more like a biased opinion than a opinion. There is an impossible chance that Sm4sh will be trash. And a mod might be the only reason to buy a disc. I'm thinking that you may feel this way also, because Brawl might be the most likely candidate to be dropped for Sm4sh instead of Melee or PM because Sm4sh as it is now is very similar in feel and style as Brawl.

I understand that Brawl will most likely be replaced by Sm4sh, and I have no problem with that.

Well, if we let PM be its own thing we can ALL be happy, right? Support the series as a whole. By the community, it's part of its history as well. PM is part of the series. I respect everyone in the community. It's only the butt heads who actively seek out flame wars whose only purpose in life is to explain why this game is better than the other.

Hey, I have no problem with P:M now. I watch the tournaments now, I even watch Melee tournies too. I'm just worried about this new game, dude. I want it to be so good that people don't feel they have to hack it to improve it.

But bro, thanks for responding to my post and calling me out. You really got me thinking.

 

[nessokman]

While I agree that Nintendo won't let this last long, the first sentence was entirely unnecessary. :/

What? I'm always blunt like that.


Anywho, Nintendo won't let it slide like it's nothing. I hate project M with a passion.
What you need to understand is that with mods like Project M, there comes an exponential amount of bad hacks and mods that cause trouble.

EVERYONE should know of the bad hacks in brawl. Some include-
-Infinite Giga Bowser online
-Infinite Wario Man online
-Custom stages online (giant boxes where you can't die)

That kind of stuff will happen AGAIN. The last thing we need is for people to ruin it for others. Project M may be worshiped by the community, but with it comes all the bad stuff. I would much prefer vanilla SSB4 as apposed to hacked to hell and back SSB4.

Gotta keep online alive for years to come.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

While I agree that Nintendo won't let this last long, the first sentence was entirely unnecessary. :/

He kinds has a point though, like what I said and what AA said earlier, finding an exploit like the stand builder for PM isn't going to be as easy and with patches with the WiiU that will probably complicate things even more.

 

[ToastMiller]

What? I'm always blunt like that.


Anywho, Nintendo won't let it slide like it's nothing. I hate project M with a passion.
What you need to understand is that with mods like Project M, there comes an exponential amount of bad hacks and mods that cause trouble.

EVERYONE should know of the bad hacks in brawl. Some include-
-Infinite Giga Bowser online
-Infinite Wario Man online
-Custom stages online (giant boxes where you can't die)

That kind of stuff will happen AGAIN. The last thing we need is for people to ruin it for others. Project M may be worshiped by the community, but with it comes all the bad stuff. I would much prefer vanilla SSB4 as apposed to hacked to hell and back SSB4.

Gotta keep online alive for years to come.

The bad hacks don't sprout from mods. Modding =/= Cheating

P.S. Plus there is a reporting system now in place for Sm4sh online.

 

[nessokman]

The bad hacks don't sprout from mods. Modding =/= Cheating

P.S. Plus there is a reporting system now in place for Sm4sh online.

Mods and those cheats sprout from the same methods. You can install the Hombrew channel on Wii the same way you install project M. I'm saying they go hand in hand. If you have a way like what you do to install project M, you WILL have people abuse it. Isn't it better to not have it then?

 

[ToastMiller]

Mods and those cheats sprout from the same methods. You can install the Hombrew channel on Wii the same way you install project M. I'm saying they go hand in hand. If you have a way like what you do to install project M, you WILL have people abuse it. Isn't it better to not have it then?

If people cheat online for sm4sh their NNID will be banned. problem solved.

 

[Maester]

I don't get your point. Nintendo's game will still be available. It's not like PM erased brawl.

Segregating the smash community is my point

 

[nessokman]

If people cheat online for sm4sh their NNID will be banned. problem solved.

And that will DEFINITELY stop everyone from doing it.

/sarcasm

Is MK8 linked to you NNID? if not your point is void. And splatoon? If they aren't connected directly to you NNid it doesn't matter.

 

[ToastMiller]

Segregating the smash community is my point

But what is the point in a community full of people who don't enjoy the game?

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

If its too early for me to be pessimistic, everybody's optimism is equally premature. Based on what we've see already, I think we can make some predictions. Sakurai thought samus was one the more powerful characters at invitational up until 16 knowledgeable players passed on her. He insists on handling the balance himself despite having staff with solid fighting game credentials.

I'm sorry, but I have to correct this. Sakurai is working with other people to balance the game (Source: http://www.siliconera.com/2014/06/10/masahiro-sakurai-super-smash-bros-balanced/ ) and he is working with Namco Bandai's top dogs (Source:http://mynintendonews.com/2012/06/2...os-games-are-being-developed-by-namco-bandai/ ), and the engine being used is made by them, too!

What's funny about what you're saying, is that the last SSB game Sakurai balanced all by himself was MELEE, of all things. Not trying to be rude here. Just laying out the facts.

 

[JV5Chris]

Anywho, Nintendo won't let it slide like it's nothing. I hate project M with a passion.

Hope people realize that to our knowledge, this is not Nintendo's view on the mod. By comparison, the Treehouse reps sound quite a bit more positive than some of the opinions in this thread.

 

[Silent Hell]

Wow, so many people hating on PM and Sm4sh at the same time.

I guess I'll shed my opinion on the situation.
Let me begin this on the pretense that I have issues with both Melee and Brawl. I am in no way a competitive player nor have I ever participated in a serious tournament.

I'll start with my problems with Melee. I've never liked the competitive scene. My biggest gripe was the balancing issues with the game. I always hated seeing the same 5 characters being used in every match. I'm sure most of us can agree with this.

As for Brawl, balancing was considerably worse than Melee. Certain characters like my mains had inescapable grab glitches that made them a joke to play as. The game was too slow and random tripping was BS.

Project M was actually refreshing for once. Yes it's mainly Melee's lovechild but at least it fixed my biggest issue with the smash series... BALANCE! For once low tier characters were placing higher in tournaments. Project M saved my interest in Brawl. Albeit I agree the stages are all basically the same. I still don't like the removal of dash item grabbing/aerial item grabbing/reverse ledge grabbing.

As for Smash 4, if the characters really are balanced, I will have no need for a Project M. However, I doubt this will be the case and openly invite any hack that can fix this issue.

 

[Maester]

But what is the point in a community full of people who don't enjoy the game?

Facepalm.

And this goes back to developers game vs what modders think it should be.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

As for Smash 4, if the characters really are balanced, I will have no need for a Project M. However, I doubt this will be the case and openly invite any hack that can fix this issue.

Also, I keep seeing stuff like this a lot recently. No offense (I really do mean that), but you guys do realize that they're going to make patches, right? I'm sure that if stuff like Pikachu and DeDeDe's infinite chain-grabs, and Meta Knight in general could be patched, they would've but they couldn't on the Wii. Now they can and Sakurai has stated that they will, if need be, many times. We don't have to rely on stuff like Brawl+ to "fix" the game for us, for lack of a better word.

 

[nessokman]

Hope people realize that to our knowledge, this is not Nintendo's view on the mod. The Treehouse reps at least sound quite a bit more positive than some of the opinions in this thread.

However, that doesn't mean Nintendo supports it as they don't and will not officially acknowledge it

Yeah, they don't support it.That doesn't counter my point of "If people can use an exploit/glitch/whatever to modify a game, they could use it to hack the console" Brawl being the prime example. Being able to hack the system caused so much crap, there were numerous ways to hack it, but Brawl was one of the more common ones. They won't let it slide if it ruins the game for others.

 

[ToastMiller]

Yeah, they don't support it.That doesn't counter my point of "If people can use an exploit/glitch/whatever to modify a game, they could use it to hack the console" Brawl being the prime example. Being able to hack the system caused so much crap, there were numerous ways to hack it, but Brawl was one of the more common ones. They won't let it slide if it ruins the game for others.

Hacking has happened to every system despite all efforts put into anti-hacking. The Wii U won't be any different.