Smash Wii U Wii U is hackable - Will there be mods again?

[LancerStaff]

Sorry I forgot people enjoy high level tripping.

I get it now, you're actually a Brawl fan who's making the Melee community look bad in comparison.

Don't worry, it'll be our little secret.

 

[Lamasis]

Sorry I forgot people enjoy high level tripping.

I found it funny.

 

[Renji64]

I get it now, you're actually a Brawl fan who's making the Melee community look bad in comparison.

Don't worry, it'll be our little secret.

My favorite game smash is n64 :/ plot twist.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So you want brawl+ or brawlHD?

I want an in the middle, not Melee not Brawl. I want them to learn what the best parts of each game was and bring them together.

 

[Renji64]

I want an in the middle, not Melee not Brawl. I want them to learn what the best parts of each game was and bring them together.

I'm fine with that and give sakurai credit when he earns i'm not one his apologists. I free movement, combos, reduced lag but that is too much to ask. I understand why people would rather just have a project m 2 or something else sakurai doesn't deliever on the competieve anymore.

 

[Lautsuu~]

Pah, I could care less about having P:M V.2.0

I only got involved in the Smash Community last year, and thus, Brawl was my first Smash game. I missed out on Melee, and P:M won't work for me. I freaking loved Brawl. Yeah, I was disappointed about Roy and Mewtwo not being in the game, having come to love the two as I did my research on Melee, but overall, it was a really good game. I understand some Melee lovers don't want to let go, but still. I don't play competitively, but I am hoping to get involved once Smash 4 comes out, so just give it some time...

The only downside to this community is the whole war between Melee/P:M/Brawl. Just...stop.

Overall, if you want to make a MOD of Smash 4, go ahead. Do what you like. I'd probably check it out. But...just give the goddamn game a chance, okay?

 

[Bobojack]

Allright , this is slowly turning into a Melee/Brawl hate thread. Please stop it or this thread will be locked.

 

[ToastMiller]

I don't think competitive players actually hate the existence of brawl. I'm sure it was extremely frustrating to hype so much for brawl and then once they get their hands on it, it was extremely TECHNICALLY inferior to melee. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Brawl cut out WD L-cancel (i think) and a whole bunch of other stuff that made melee so much fun for the competitive scene. So they modded it and everything was fine. Sm4sh doesn't look as SLOW but it does look a whole lot less TECHNICAL. So I assume the same will happen with sm4sh mods that happened for brawl mods. play melee (in this case PM) until sm4sh gets modded to be more technical (and awesome). I have literally no clue why everyone hates the idea of a mod for sm4sh. It's not coming anytime soon, but seriously it's not gonna split the community further. It's basically split into casuals and competitive players. Leaving sm4sh for vanilla forever isn't going to make competitive players enjoy it lol. It'll just make them ignore sakurai's latest work.

 

[LancerStaff]

My favorite game smash is n64 :/ plot twist.

So you're really a 64 fan trying to sabotage Melee? I guess I had you pegged all wrong.

 

[nessokman]

None of those are mods.

Infinite Giga Bowser - A cleverly edited Youtube video done for an April Fool's joke. Not real.
Infinite Wario Man - Looks like the poster is claiming they used a hacking tool called 'Ocarina,' which is a real thing. I wasn't able to determine whether this actually made it online or if the video was edited.
Custom cage stages - An exploit in the custom stage builder. No hack required, and it's very easy to do yourself.

All of these statements are incorrect. I have run into people playing as infinite giga bowser online numerous times through my years of brawl online.

I'm saying mods and hacks can help an hurt, look at minecraft! There are mods that can help you spot chests, there are xray mods for finding the good ores. If you do one, you can do the other. Better to have neither than have both, because it can ruin the experience for others.

 

[RODO]

A Smash 4 would be fun like fun year down the road but right now I just wanna play the base Smash 4 alongside PM.

 

[RouffWestie]

If anybody can bring back cut characters and make Zelda good, then consider me excited.

And imagine if it's possible to create a WiiU version of Smash Run. That would be absolute craziness.

 

[ToastMiller]

If Ness actually does get cut I might just learn how to mod him back in myself.

 

[κomıc]

I have to disagree on the balancing of Melee. There's a lot more variety in Brawl in terms of match-ups and characters. I remember Melee mostly consisting of Foxes, Sheiks, Falcos, Captain Falcons and Marths for a majority of the time where as now, things are starting to open up a bit more but I wouldn't totally know. I still see Captain Falcon and Marth taking top spot still where Bowser, Dr. Mario, Young Link, Roy, Mewtwo and several others are MIA.

On the other hand, Brawl mostly had ROBs, MKs, Snake, Falcos, Olimars, Mr.G&W and Marth but now everything is being switched up where we see Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu, King DeDeDe, Shiek, Fox, Marth, Ike and so on.

So in a way, balancing is almost on par. But I stand by thinking that Brawl has the better balance.

 

[Jumpman84]

If sakurai still knew how to develop good games and please people who like good gameplay there wouldn't be a need for mods.

Have you ever made a game?

 

[Ryan.]

I got Project M fairly recently and love it, but I'd rather there not be another Project M for Smash 4. I don't really think it needs it, in my opinion.

 

[pizzapie7]

I have to disagree on the balancing of Melee. There's a lot more variety in Brawl in terms of match-ups and characters. I remember Melee mostly consisting of Foxes, Sheiks, Falcos, Captain Falcons and Marths for a majority of the time where as now, things are starting to open up a bit more but I wouldn't totally know. I still see Captain Falcon and Marth taking top spot still where Bowser, Dr. Mario, Young Link, Roy, Mewtwo and several others are MIA.

On the other hand, Brawl mostly had ROBs, MKs, Snake, Falcos, Olimars, Mr.G&W and Marth but now everything is being switched up where we see Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu, King DeDeDe, Shiek, Fox, Marth, Ike and so on.

So in a way, balancing is almost on par. But I stand by thinking that Brawl has the better balance.

We must be watching two different competitive communities then because that sounds nothing like either scene's meta.

 

[nessokman]

If Ness actually does get cut I might just learn how to mod him back in myself.

If you do, be sure to make his attacks are actually faithful to the things he can do in game.

 

[Tetraplex]

I'm just glad I'll be able to add music again, at least eventually. Playing Wily's Castle with The Megas jamming in the background will be fantastic.

While I agree we should give the completed game a chance (if anyone doesn't know, the demo was a build from back in January so a lot will have changed), if Nintendo doesn't opt to release balance patches the community will take it on themselves to do so, which will likely move it toward a more technical, 'melee-like' play style, if only because it seems most popular mods are made by people favoring that.

 

[κomıc]

We must be watching two different competitive communities then because that sounds nothing like either scene's meta.

Maybe. That's what I've seen.

 

[Xigger]

Changing music tracks and title names, just like iTunes. Not quite Homebrew.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

How about this!, if SSB4 sucked competitively and you as a casual player was satisfied, how about not downloading the mod, right ? you will still have your official Smash and the competitive community will have their Smash....Why are people against option is beyond me!...no one is shoving P:M down your throats you know.

 

[κomıc]

How about this!, if SSB4 sucked competitively and you as a casual player was satisfied, how about not downloading the mod, right ? you will still have your official Smash and the competitive community will have their Smash....Why are people against option is beyond me!...no one is shoving P:M down your throats you know.

Nor is anyone forcing those complaining about the current build of Smash 4 to purchase it. It also sounds like a lot of these people don't really care about Wii U except for just Smash. Or any game. But I think that's too broad of a statement to make.

Options are fine but when it jeopardizes the game to be seen as "competitively viable" and not allowed in big gaming events such a EVO, it is unfair to those who spent so much time playing that game and preferring that iteration (I'm referencing Brawl).

 

[pizzapie7]

Options are fine but when it jeopardizes the game to be seen as "competitively viable" and not allowed in big gaming events such a EVO, it is unfair to those who spent so much time playing that game and preferring that iteration (I'm referencing Brawl).

A game should be judged on its own merits as far as "competitive viability" is concerned, not just given everything because it exists, or it's the newest, or it's official. Whether or not Smash 4 is played at or taken out of tournaments and events because of it's viability, and whether or not it's compared to any other game in the series or mod that happens to be out, should be at the discretion of the tournament organizers. At the end of the day, TO's are going to want to game that's fun to watch and rewarding to play at all levels of competitive play. They have every right to compare and measure any and all possibilities as far as games and even rulesets are concerned. There's nothing unfair about that.

So long as they make Smash 4 a competitive game that the community finds worth playing, you shouldn't have any problems. If it's not, well then blame the creators for making an unpopular game, not the consumers for not playing what they don't like.

 

[ORVO5]

I don't think competitive players actually hate the existence of brawl. I'm sure it was extremely frustrating to hype so much for brawl and then once they get their hands on it, it was extremely TECHNICALLY inferior to melee. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Brawl cut out WD L-cancel (i think) and a whole bunch of other stuff that made melee so much fun for the competitive scene. So they modded it and everything was fine. Sm4sh doesn't look as SLOW but it does look a whole lot less TECHNICAL. So I assume the same will happen with sm4sh mods that happened for brawl mods. play melee (in this case PM) until sm4sh gets modded to be more technical (and awesome). I have literally no clue why everyone hates the idea of a mod for sm4sh. It's not coming anytime soon, but seriously it's not gonna split the community further. It's basically split into casuals and competitive players. Leaving sm4sh for vanilla forever isn't going to make competitive players enjoy it lol. It'll just make them ignore sakurai's latest work.

Yeah, agreed. Not sure why people who are against Melee speed is against Project M. It's not like it'll change the original game. Just.. dont play it..?

 

[κomıc]

A game should be judged on its own merits as far as "competitive viability" is concerned, not just given everything because it exists, or it's the newest, or it's official. Whether or not Smash 4 is played at or taken out of tournaments and events because of it's viability, and whether or not it's compared to any other game in the series or mod that happens to be out, should be at the discretion of the tournament organizers. At the end of the day, TO's are going to want to game that's fun to watch and rewarding to play at all levels of competitive play. They have every right to compare and measure any and all possibilities as far as games and even rulesets are concerned. There's nothing unfair about that.

So long as they make Smash 4 a competitive game that the community finds worth playing, you shouldn't have any problems. If it's not, well then blame the creators for making an unpopular game, not the consumers for not playing what they don't like.

I honestly think it goes both ways because Brawl is fun to watch on a competitive level. Don't you think TOs should keep their expectations reasonable and be objective on the matter instead of holding that game to another?

 

[BombKirby]

How about this!, if SSB4 sucked competitively and you as a casual player was satisfied, how about not downloading the mod, right ? you will still have your official Smash and the competitive community will have their Smash....Why are people against option is beyond me!...no one is shoving P:M down your throats you know.

Because all of the smash bros games have competitive meta games and its beyond annoying when the melee worshipers roll their eyes and call 64/Brawl/and eventually SSB4 uncompetitive just because they do not like those games. And because of that... SSB4 and SSB5 and SSB6 and etc etc etc will always "require" a Project M to be "fun" and "competitive" by those people's definition. Personally I think it'd just be nice if we didn't think every incarnation of smash needs to be "fixed" with a new PM and instead we just deal with it as it is, like how 64 lived out its life.

And yes people "shove" PM/Melee down each other's throats. Go to every thread on here, reddit, and etc where someone asks "I'm starting to play Brawl. What should I know?" and you'll ALWAYS see a comment early on saying "Don't! Play PM/Melee. Those don't suck!" A ton of fans from those games are very very loud and proud about their games and do indeed run around pressuring people to play their respective games and put people down who do not play their respective game. (Remember the booing and/or "move on to Melee!" at that Brawl finals? Sad... Very sad.)

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Nor is anyone forcing those complaining about the current build of Smash 4 to purchase it. It also sounds like a lot of these people don't really care about Wii U except for just Smash. Or any game. But I think that's too broad of a statement to make.

Options are fine but when it jeopardizes the game to be seen as "competitively viable" and not allowed in big gaming events such a EVO, it is unfair to those who spent so much time playing that game and preferring that iteration (I'm referencing Brawl).

Why are you so against it is beyond me.
I believe the competitive crowd have as much right as you in owning the game, the criteria for competitive play is all gameplay centric and if I might say it will make sure the game design is tight, there's noway a competitive viable Smash4 will be worse than a non-competitive one, it actually will mean this game will play better and have better physics.
Being viable for competitive play requires certain criteria to be met, people are not asking for much, I'm an Ike fan and that's the only reason I prefer Brawl to Melee, but I can't deny how superior Melee is to Brawl, even Sakurai admits the fact Melee took alot of his time (part of the reason Smash 4 isn't Melee 2.0).

You need to understand that such thing as a mod will never,ever hinder your experience, if you understand the concept of live and let live, you should know , that you are wrong and you should quit this argument right now.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

You guys are a bunch of babbling, blind-sighted numbskulls. Smash 4 vs. PM U? Please.

Project B is OBVIOUSLY going to be the new thing. ¦D

Spoiler

I'd like an HD Project M but I don't need it if the game is okay. Just make the game play like a faster and new Brawl+ with a decent character cast, give me mods for models and music and sound clips and adding/making new characters and I'm perfectly happy.

I don't need Smash 4 to be PM. I just need it to be fast and fun. If it isn't, then let the changes commence however they do.

 

[pizzapie7]

I honestly think it goes both ways because Brawl is fun to watch on a competitive level. Don't you think TOs should keep their expectations reasonable and be objective on the matter instead of holding that game to another?

TOs should only pick from the creme of the crop because running every single video game that fits is impractical in most all settings. It's a subjective topic in nature, there's no real objective metric of depth or competitive value. It's nearly all eye test and theory. Tournament organizers pick the games the players most want to play and the viewers most want to view, except for times where someone like a company pays them to run their game. This is because tournaments want to attract the best players and the biggest crowds. Take S@X for example. They've shifted to running more PM and less Melee at their weeklies because their local scene has shifted toward PM. PM is more popular, so it's played more.

While there isn't a true metric for competitive value, competitive playerbases tend to gather around games that have it. TOs generally can feel out the population (follow the money) and decide the game of choice. There's your objectivity I suppose, entrants at the event and viewers watching ads on livestreams. Again, if Smash 4 is as great of a game as everyone here seems so hyped for, it'll do fine.

 

[Downdraft]

Have to disagree with that "still fun for casuals" part, to some extent. Not that it's terrible for that purpose, but it's not as good as vanilla Brawl. The stage list in Project M is a repetitive snoozefest for casual play (even going as far as making some really fun Brawl stages, like WarioWare, super boring), and for some strange reason, they don't let you pick up items while dashing, which feels really counter-intuitive for casuals (and keeping the feature would not have effected competitive play - it's literally only removed to make that aspect of the game more like Melee, for the sake of it, rather than being of benefit to anyone).

And while Turbo Mode is awesome, it comes across as more of a "fun for advanced players who want something crazier" kind of thing, rather than being fun for casuals, since you need to be very good at the game to really see the effect of Turbo Mode.

And in it's current state, PM removes some rather fun single-player modes like SSE, that also have co-op play.

At this point, I think I've read enough of this thread.

One needs a copy of Brawl to play PM. If you play the hackless version, you're making no modifications to your Wii. Let's not act like having customizations permanently alters the content of the Brawl disc. Let's not pretend one has to hack anything. Let's not pretend anyone is forcing hacks upon people that aren't interested. Why don't we all just play the games we enjoy rather than making comments that cast other games or mods in unfair or dishonest light?

To answer this thread, it makes no difference to me. Brawl- and PM are good enough for me.
If I don't like Smash 4, then I will quit playing it and find something else to do with my free time.

I honestly don't want a hack for this game... people need to get over Melee and accept that it was the past.

People need to get over Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow and accept that they're the past.
You can say something similar regarding cultural shifts and history; I don't think it's a good approach.
Your statement sounds like you have a problem with other people's personal preferences; that's why they're personal. If they don't harm your personal life, then why are you so concerned?

Never mind that Sakurai has done most of the balancing himself in the past games instead of a dedicated team for it.

A perfectly balanced game would indeed be boring. That would mean that everyone plays the same with the same exact stats.

The only way to have a perfectly balanced game would be if there was 1 character. No one's demanding perfect balance. We'd simply prefer 80+ % of the cast to be viable. Yes, 80 is an arbitrary number, yet it's still higher than the % of viable characters in Brawl and Melee. In an ideally balanced game, someone that took a reasonable amount of time to learn the game would be able to pick their favorite character and win. Brawl had an S-tier character and a Hyrule tier; neither of those tiers should have existed.

Someone noted that the Wii U is financially struggling. Nintendo has tens of billions of dollars saved; they're not in trouble.
I doubt they'd ever consider it, but I think an HD Melee remake with additional content would sell well enough to justifiy its production. By the way, I'm not a Melee advocate. I try to consider more than one side of a dispute and include objectivity.

 

[Senario]

Mixed feelings because I want smash 4 to be a competitive enough game to stand on its own and go to evo and things. However it has a higher chance of not being due to Sakurai. Therefore I would be fine with it if what we get isn't depth. After all, a lot of great games started out as mods for other games like team fortress.

 

[ProjectAngel]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: the need for a Project M-styled mod for Smash 4 will depend on the competitive viability and eventual longetivity of the latter. Right now, it's too early to tell.

Texture and music hacks are fine, but asking for something in the vein of Project M without first seeing Smash 4's competitive viability might be a bit much.

I'd like for Smash 4 to stand on its own legs first before we go into anything else.

 

[Jumpman84]

At this point, I think I've read enough of this thread.

One needs a copy of Brawl to play PM. If you play the hackless version, you're making no modifications to your Wii. Let's not act like having customizations permanently alters the content of the Brawl disc. Let's not pretend one has to hack anything. Let's not pretend anyone is forcing hacks upon people that aren't interested. Why don't we all just play the games we enjoy rather than making comments that cast other games or mods in unfair or dishonest light?

If Melee and Project M players have the right to find faults in Brawl and criticize it and the people who play it (and a lot of people on this site believe that to be the case), then Brawl players have just as much right to criticize Melee, Project M, and their respective players.

People need to get over Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow and accept that they're the past.
You can say something similar regarding cultural shifts and history; I don't think it's a good approach.
Your statement sounds like you have a problem with other people's personal preferences; that's why they're personal. If they don't harm your personal life, then why are you so concerned?

But Red, Blue, and Yellow ARE in the past. That's why we have FireRed and LeafGreen.
In seriousness, by that same token, people who play Brawl and prefer it over Melee and Project M aren't affecting those player's personal lives, either. So why are THEY so concerned?

In fact, wasn't it the Melee players who couldn't stand people playing Brawl that started Project M in the first place? I'm not trying to be condescending or insulting. I really want to know, because that's how I understood it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[PCHU]

Brawl was a strange beast when I first played it, but I found ways to appreciate it for what it was and continue to enjoy playing it.
However, after a time, I got bored with it because that's just what happens with a game you've played for years, especially if you're like me and you hardly get to fight new people IRL.
Smash 4 is looking like tons of fun, but if it ever does start to get a little old, I look forward to the new content.
Honestly, how can you NOT enjoy some of the stage textures and character skins out there?

As far as mods that affect the entire game. Brawl Minus, Brawl Plus, Project M, and so many others are out there, and they're completely optional.
Nobody's asking you to adopt a different "game" (then again, I've heard some rather disappointing stories of people who did), and you're free to keep playing the base game however long you wish.
I like the variety that mods give, but some people just don't want to get outside of their vanilla circle, and I guess that's cool, too.
Just don't think that everything is going to negatively affect you; the worst that happens is you come across someone who plays a mod you're not interested in, and you don't have to play with them.

 

[KatKit]

As far as mods are concerned, I'm only interested in silly, over-the-top stuff like Brawl Minus. I like Brawl Minus because the concept of making everyone OP is hilarious and just over-the-top fun. I can imagine how characters like Palutena and Rosalina can be turned into literal Goddesses with no regard for balanced gameplay. Interestingly enough, this is now very doable in-game thanks to Smash Run.

Anyways, I don't expect mods until long after the game's release. IF it happens, I'm not going to be interested since regular Smash 4 has tons of replay value/fanservice in and of itself. Additionally, Miis give the game plenty of customizability, regarding costumes and characters and the like. And we have customizable specials now. And I think that the game will have balance patches, and possibly even DLC.

 

[Accf124]

Personally I want a PM for smash 4 mostly because I think some of these newcomers could be really interesting in Melee mechanics (Little Mac having the ability to cancel dash with crouch). Not to mention I simply like Melee mechanics better. However we shouldn't just try to change the game a week after release that's kinda disrespectful to Sakurai and his team. We should at least wait a few years and then possibly make a PM for smash 4. I can understand if you simply don't like it, but you must remember that you don't need to play it.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

In fact, wasn't it the Melee players who couldn't stand people playing Brawl that started Project M in the first place? I'm not trying to be condescending or insulting. I really want to know, because that's how I understood it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Project M's intent is not, nor has it ever been, to edge out Brawl players. It was created because Melee fans wanted a new game similar to Melee with new characters, and to them Brawl was not their answer. It has nothing to do with Brawl's players.

I really don't know what ever made anyone think it was personal, but it seems like a disturbingly large number of people in this thread feel that way. I'm unwatching.

 

[κomıc]

Why are you so against it is beyond me.
I believe the competitive crowd have as much right as you in owning the game, the criteria for competitive play is all gameplay centric and if I might say it will make sure the game design is tight, there's noway a competitive viable Smash4 will be worse than a non-competitive one, it actually will mean this game will play better and have better physics.
Being viable for competitive play requires certain criteria to be met, people are not asking for much, I'm an Ike fan and that's the only reason I prefer Brawl to Melee, but I can't deny how superior Melee is to Brawl, even Sakurai admits the fact Melee took alot of his time (part of the reason Smash 4 isn't Melee 2.0).

You need to understand that such thing as a mod will never,ever hinder your experience, if you understand the concept of live and let live, you should know , that you are wrong and you should quit this argument right now.

I never said I was against anything. I even said that options are great. Melee being superior to Brawl is all subjective matter just as how Brawl being superior to Melee.

And what argument? And no, I'm not wrong because nothing I said was wrong anyways. I'm not trying to be a roadblock to people's happiness like you for some reason are making it out to be. No one made a statement saying a mod would hinder anyone's experience nor was there any implication.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I loved Brawl and I loved Melee and I think Project M is a wonderful project that pleases people who want an experience different to the one they got in Brawl. I don't see an issue with having more options and pleasing a greater number of people than would be pleased otherwise. Mods for Smash4 have the potential to bring out the best in it and previous games in the series, so I'm all for it.