Wii Fit trainer needs a serious buff.

[Shinuto]

He's talking to Puddin, Shin.

In addition to my previous post regarding their heal moves, I also feel that WFT's Smash attacks need less start up or end lag. Either that, or just straight up give them more launch power. My biggest complaint with them is that they're Smashes are so punishable, but they don't do quite enough to justify it. All of their other attacks are reasonably balanced in terms of power and....punishability, if that's even a word, but their Smash attacks are just not quite good enough. I'm not getting enough bang for my buck.

Also regarding their troubles with hitting small characters, as previously stated, that's where you have to start incorporating pivot tilts and grabs. In addition to this, you have D-Tilt/Smash, and low-level aerials. It's annoying that the front of their F-Tilt can't hit short opponents (especially considering that's one of their best kill moves imo due to my issues with their Smashes), but you just have to adapt when presented with a less than ideal matchup like this.

(I haven't actually read every single post in this thread, so my bad if I'm just repeating what other people have already said. :/)

Oh yeah I do feel that if the range isnt increased on her smashes then atleast increase the power and or knockback especially given the rather poor start up AND end lag. What I want is speed increase in her D-aerial as its like Ganondorf's but less knockback and the same speed basically.

 

[CoolPalMitch]

Oh yeah I do feel that if the range isnt increased on her smashes then atleast increase the power and or knockback especially given the rather poor start up AND end lag. What I want is speed increase in her D-aerial as its like Ganondorf's but less knockback and the same speed basically.

I only ever use Dair for spiking, and honestly, if I ever want to try to spike my opponent, 9 times out of 10 I just try to go for the Header spike instead. I only ever go for a Dair Spike if I'm directly above them at the moment. Dair really isn't too useful outside of this I've found.

 

[Shinuto]

I only ever use Dair for spiking, and honestly, if I ever want to try to spike my opponent, 9 times out of 10 I just try to go for the Header spike instead. I only ever go for a Dair Spike if I'm directly above them at the moment. Dair really isn't too useful outside of this I've found.

yeah but I still think it needs aspeed buff for what it is.

 

[⑨ball]

She is low tier garbaje tho.

Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah, no. Whether you base your tiers on a character's toolset or their viability in comparison to other characters, WFT can't be any lower than high-mid. That's pretty good in a game that's shaping up to have extremely tight balance and super close tiers.

You can better yourself all you want, but you WILL most likely lose to:
Ness
Falcon
Fox
Falco
Sonic
Mario/Dr Mario
Marth/Lucina
Kirby
(more goes here)

If you're bad player or have a predefeated mindset it doesn't matter who you use or come up against. You'll most likely lose to yourself before you even select your character.

Most end game tier lists are full of characters that had extremely low or mediocre placings that ended up relatively high due to having good players behind them.

Brawl's tier list in 2008 had characters like Olimar and Ice Climbers in 13 and 18th respectively. Near the end of Brawl's lifespan, Olimar is in the same tier as Diddy and Ice Climbers have their own tier being able to 0-death everyone in the cast.

The game itself is not only young, but WFT doesn't even have a particularly bad MU against ANY of the characters you listed being particularly LOL at Marth/Lucina and Falcon who don't have anyway to deal with WFT's projectile or crouch game being forced to rely on linear and extremely laggy moves or gambles to even get damage on a competent WiiFit.

Without them trying too hard. She/He has an up-cliff battle with these guys. All they need to do is play decently. All WFT needs to do is not miss a single attack and also somehow get a kill shot (lmao!) without being killed first.

This is a very telling statement. Not of WiiFit but of your own experiences and general playstyle. It'd also explain why you had such obviously wrong information in your first post in this thread despite all the information we've been dropping.

I am not one of those people who go "I won't try to get better until my character is buffed." After all, I played Zelda and Palutena since day 1

Two decent characters that do fairly well in good hands. One of which is consistently used in tournament by atleast one top player.

... But... WFT most def requires too much scrutiny to do well with.

This is an opinion. It's also not even a bad thing. Scrutiny is defined as critical observation or examination. Why would you not want that in a fighting game?
If anything, all that means is that WFT will have a much larger pool of highly aware players developing her metagame and going up against characters that don't.

While members of the Easy Army just sit on their controllers/3ds and somehow win.

You're assuming a lot here and it's not a good look. It pretty much translates to: "I get beaten pretty often by characters I don't understand, and players I don't think are trying as hard as me and I'm pretty butthurt about it."

No character community has it easy and we all work hard to better our game with the tools we have available. If it feels like some players don't have to do much to beat you, it's because you as a player are not good enough. This can be a hard truth to admit, but it will ultimately make you a better player for recognizing a wall as a hurdle and not a dead end.

Sooooo that's why I don't bash peeps who refuse to better their WFT game. She is absolutely ridiculous compared to more than half the roster. Being the best at WFT is like being the best jogger in a running race.

I don't think anyone here was "bashing" anyone. No one here was even saying they refused to better themselves. It's just some people venting about her weaknesses, saying buffs would be nice, and some others offering insight as buffs are not reliable or likely. (case and point RIP WFT reverse fair and Little Mac's recovery)

Also LOL. WFT has already been used multiple times in tournament and in friendly sets among top and up-and-coming players, holding her own against every character she's come against while being played with nothing more than good fundamentals and player know-how.

If anything this means that WFT is keeping up with the entire cast while being the "best jogger in a running race".

She does VERY well against campers or rollypollies, but that's only saying so much. I personally like using her because she is so passively trolly without making it obvious (tuck in those glutes!). Her movements are goofy-lolwat too.

You're describing playstyles here rather than characters and that speaks more for you than WFT, though she certainly does have good tools to deal with them.

It's fairly obvious at this point that you've been having a rough time. Most likely strictly in online play, even though I'd imagine you win a reasonable amount of your matches. I get it. Losing is frustrating, and that feeling is a good thing in competition. It means you want to win and more importantly you know you as a player CAN win. However, it's also fairly obvious that you have a lot to learn about this character and about smash 4 in general. No one is going to tell you that you can't vent your frustrations, or wish things were better, but don't tell yourself or other players things about WFT that aren't true. It's not going to help anyone.

 

[SuaveChaser]

She is low tier garbaje tho. You can better yourself all you want, but you WILL most likely lose to:
Ness
Falcon
Fox
Falco
Sonic
Mario/Dr Mario
Marth/Lucina
Kirby
(more goes here)

Without them trying too hard. She/He has an up-cliff battle with these guys. All they need to do is play decently. All WFT needs to do is not miss a single attack and also somehow get a kill shot (lmao!) without being killed first.

I am not one of those people who go "I won't try to get better until my character is buffed." After all, I played Zelda and Palutena since day 1... But... WFT most def requires too much scrutiny to do well with. While members of the Easy Army just sit on their controllers/3ds and somehow win. Sooooo that's why I don't bash peeps who refuse to better their WFT game. She is absolutely ridiculous compared to more than half the roster. Being the best at WFT is like being the best jogger in a running race.

She does VERY well against campers or rollypollies, but that's only saying so much. I personally like using her because she is so passively trolly without making it obvious (tuck in those glutes!). Her movements are goofy-lolwat too.

While there is some truth to what you are saying. She has a very capable moveset not every match up is that bad for her. Being the best you can be with your character and a good player will get you the win no matter what the tier placement. There has been times where my smash attack wiffed and i losted tho lol.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Played around a little against shorter characters.. and it's honestly not that bad. Is it tough? Yes obviously but not as bad as I thought or others a making it out to be. ZSS also struggles against short characters but nobody says anything.. hmm..

You'll mostly be using all of your tools accept for F-smash simply because it's not too reliable in the matchups and that isn't too bad imo. Dash grab is also valid as it allows you to actually grab the shorties.

it's just a matter of knowing which moves will hit and which don't.

 

[BJN39]

Aaaaand, Sakurai basically says no more balance patches in an interview...

rip

 

[tofumon]

I think the biggest hurdle for players trying to learn Wii Fit Trainer is her extremely short melee range. For me I would always try to punish whiffed attacks or poke at opponents with f.tilt because that's what I naturally do with other characters, but you CANNOT do that with Wii Fit Trainer. Hell even if you connect with f.tilt on shield your opponent can still punish you.

I wanted to play Wii Fit Trainer as an aggressive rush down character but her floaty jump and wonky moves just don't work very well for that kind of playstyle. She works much better when you're trying to bait and punish, or camp and wait for your opponent to approach (not my favorite method, but it works).

For camping your opponent out, just start charging your sun salutation and keep your eyes peeled on the opponent. There are almost no projectiles you can't block on reaction. If they start spamming their projectiles, counter with side B since you will leap over their projectiles and return fire. If sun salutation is finished charging and they're still not approaching, use a deep breathing. If they try to punish you can shield out of it or press a direction to roll.

If they refuse to approach you (or if you hate the campy playstyle and want to do the approaching) you have a few options. You shouldn't use dash attack unless your opponent is recovering from a move or if they just landed on the ground. When you're running at them you should be ready to shield or roll out of the run, or grab them if they're just blocking. You can also short hop over some attacks and land on them with n.air, which is great for setting up combos. Or you can short hop, air dodge, then mash A to cancel landing lag and hit them with your jab combo if you land on them (mashing A cancels landing lag because she lands during the auto-cancel startup frames of her n.air). Or you can short hop then fast fall and immediately shield or jab.

Whiffed attacks made by your opponent should be punished with either a dash attack, grab, or reverse f.tilt. If you hit them with a dash attack you can immediately chase after them in the air and possibly f.air them. If you grab them, you can punt them off stage with forward or backward throw. Down throw puts them in a good position for you to chase them in the air. Save up throw until they're super high % because it MIGHT kill them, but otherwise it's pretty useless.

Her f.tilt has a hit box BEHIND her that launches the opponent in a very similar way to her u.tilt, but it's much better because her u.tilt is impossible to hit with. I wouldn't use reverse f.tilt as an approach option because it leaves you very open, but as a punish it's great. Just run right up to your opponent (who should be recovering from whatever move they missed) and press back then A and your leg will hit them and lift them into the air, and from there you can attempt and u.air, f.air, or n.air.

 

[⑨ball]

I wanted to play Wii Fit Trainer as an aggressive rush down character but her floaty jump and wonky moves just don't work very well for that kind of playstyle. She works much better when you're trying to bait and punish, or camp and wait for your opponent to approach (not my favorite method, but it works).

Maybe you've been approaching it from the wrong angle? WiiFit is pretty powerful played defensively and aggressively. Her "wonky" moves lets her approach playstyles in ways other characters can't even hope to emulate. I know for a fact that Crisspy plays fairly aggressive, and I find a lot of success in playing close and switching gears.

Just for curiosity's sake, how were you playing that you considered aggressive but ineffective with WFT? Also what characters do you feel like can play aggressively?

 

[Lil Puddin]

@ ⑨ball not so fast, Kaiball! You've activated my something or other. I'm having anything but a rough time. I also like losing to good players, mostly because fun or something. I am just very prone to never sugar coating things. Mostly because I am pudding and require all that sugar to sustain my jiggling form. I also mention highlights.

WFT is fit to fight, but nearly all her attacks, not specials, suffer from the same things. Thus making her forward/most prevalent attributes not so nice to see.

Ok now @every other person or whatever

My main is/has been Zeldoo since Melee came out... And that means Brawl Zeldoo for almost a decade. BRAWL ZELDOO, YA'LL, BRAWL ZELDON'T. TIER SO LOW SHE CAN'T EVEN SALUTE THE SUN IN 1V1. She was very mediocre, but she could still kick ass; mostly figuratively, sometimes literally. She was factually garbaje tier and I didn't make excuses or go "but muh lytnan keeks can b gud." I had fun. That's all that mattered. When asked how she was overall, I said what stood out instead of digging for the good parts. If her forward attributes turned people off, then good, they wouldn't have bothered to learn her kit fully. If it made her garbajeness more apparent, then good, more salt after I win.

When asked to describe WFT, will you mention her odd/low priority hitboxes and equally odd payoff to risk ratio? Or will you ignore those attributes to mention the great attributes 3 through 6? Embrace the few bags of garbaje. Then dump it all over your opponent while they produce tears and say "but muh tiers." That's the salt-collecting way.

Can she be used competitively? If Brawl Zeldon't and Ganondork can, anyone can.

Also given the nature of this topic, this isn't a place just for positive comments. WFT is not made entirely of saluted sunshine and soccer ball lollipops. She has a lame side that should be addressed and, if you choose to play WFT, embraced.

If you're looking to ignore the bad parts, then a nice general WFT topic or tactics workshop thread is what you want. A topic discussing her need of buffs is going to be a bitter bite.

Just take sweet solace in the fact WFT is far better than the disaster that was competitive Brawl Zelders. That's all I need to know to happily play as WFT; regardless of tiers. Tuck in those glutes!

While there is some truth to what you are saying. She has a very capable moveset not every match up is that bad for her. Being the best you can be with your character and a good player will get you the win no matter what the tier placement. There has been times where my smash attack wiffed and i losted tho lol.

Exactly.

As for the last part I use Ftilt to kill over Fsmash unless I know it will hit. Roll behind them when you are close to the edge and use a freshish Ftilt. You will KO around 90%-110% and it is faster. Then the next time switch it up, since they will expect another roll->Ftilt. Dsmash is nice too since being low is safer than standing.

 

[tofumon]

Maybe you've been approaching it from the wrong angle? WiiFit is pretty powerful played defensively and aggressively. Her "wonky" moves lets her approach playstyles in ways other characters can't even hope to emulate. I know for a fact that Crisspy plays fairly aggressive, and I find a lot of success in playing close and switching gears.

Just for curiosity's sake, how were you playing that you considered aggressive but ineffective with WFT? Also what characters do you feel like can play aggressively?

Characters that are fast and have a lot of safe moves. So like Fox, Sheik, ZSS, Sonic. Wii Fit Trainer's attacks are all kind of slow except her aerials, but her jump is floaty compared to the other characters I mentioned.

 

[SuaveChaser]

@ ⑨ball not so fast, Kaiball! You've activated my something or other. I'm having anything but a rough time. I also like losing to good players, mostly because fun or something. I am just very prone to never sugar coating things. Mostly because I am pudding and require all that sugar to sustain my jiggling form. I also mention highlights.

WFT is fit to fight, but nearly all her attacks, not specials, suffer from the same things. Thus making her forward/most prevalent attributes not so nice to see.

Ok now @every other person or whatever

My main is/has been Zeldoo since Melee came out... And that means Brawl Zeldoo for almost a decade. BRAWL ZELDOO, YA'LL, BRAWL ZELDON'T. TIER SO LOW SHE CAN'T EVEN SALUTE THE SUN IN 1V1. She was very mediocre, but she could still kick ***; mostly figuratively, sometimes literally. She was factually garbaje tier and I didn't make excuses or go "but muh lytnan keeks can b gud." I had fun. That's all that mattered. When asked how she was overall, I said what stood out instead of digging for the good parts. If her forward attributes turned people off, then good, they wouldn't have bothered to learn her kit fully. If it made her garbajeness more apparent, then good, more salt after I win.

When asked to describe WFT, will you mention her odd/low priority hitboxes and equally odd payoff to risk ratio? Or will you ignore those attributes to mention the great attributes 3 through 6? Embrace the few bags of garbaje. Then dump it all over your opponent while they produce tears and say "but muh tiers." That's the salt-collecting way.

Can she be used competitively? If Brawl Zeldon't and Ganondork can, anyone can.

Also given the nature of this topic, this isn't a place just for positive comments. WFT is not made entirely of saluted sunshine and soccer ball lollipops. She has a lame side that should be addressed and, if you choose to play WFT, embraced.

If you're looking to ignore the bad parts, then a nice general WFT topic or tactics workshop thread is what you want. A topic discussing her need of buffs is going to be a bitter bite.

Just take sweet solace in the fact WFT is far better than the disaster that was competitive Brawl Zelders. That's all I need to know to happily play as WFT; regardless of tiers. Tuck in those glutes!



Exactly.

As for the last part I use Ftilt to kill over Fsmash unless I know it will hit. Roll behind them when you are close to the edge and use a freshish Ftilt. You will KO around 90%-110% and it is faster. Then the next time switch it up, since they will expect another roll->Ftilt. Dsmash is nice too since being low is safer than standing.

Wow that is great advince gonna try that out i do use f-smash 2 much.

 

[teluoborg]

Oh yeah I do feel that if the range isnt increased on her smashes then atleast increase the power and or knockback especially given the rather poor start up AND end lag.

Yeah if only this character had a way to increase the damage and knockback of her attacks, if only temporarily.....

 

[Shinuto]

Yeah if only this character had a way to increase the damage and knockback of her attacks, if only temporarily.....

that doesnt count, the increase is literally 1% for the majority of moves. in terms of power and knockback increase is all over the place for the moves, some is pretty good increase and others is nonexistent.

 

[teluoborg]

So what, you wanted to kill people with your Jab ? And it's 2% fyi

But srsly deep breathing knockback boost is real, especially with rage effect on. If you don't think that solves WFT's "kill problems" then you're just not using the right moves.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

I guess I'm one of the best if not only Wii Fit Trainer in SoCal. So if any wii fits wanna train and learn stuff just add my Id: wiifitgaypride69

PM a time you wanna play. Anyone is free to add me. JUSt wanna improve others wii fits.

 

[Luxent]

I LOVE the WFT, Its just my biggest issues are not with her power or speed, but mainly her range and startup lag on smash attacks.

If anything, the SideSmash is fine, but the down smash needs much more range, and the up smash (although strong and not THAT slow), has the smallest hitbox!

It makes me mad how Shulk's upSmash can position the opponent right above them and then kill in a 1-2 hit, Gaaaah. WFT needs the same thing. Hell even Peach's upsmash hits on the side a decent amount.


and her UP TILT IS THE WORST THING EVER. What kind of uptilt cuts height in half, and doesnt have an extending hitbox? uuuuugh.

 

[⑨ball]

I LOVE the WFT, Its just my biggest issues are not with her power or speed, but mainly her range and startup lag on smash attacks.

If anything, the SideSmash is fine, but the down smash needs much more range, and the up smash (although strong and not THAT slow), has the smallest hitbox!

It makes me mad how Shulk's upSmash can position the opponent right above them and then kill in a 1-2 hit, Gaaaah. WFT needs the same thing. Hell even Peach's upsmash hits on the side a decent amount.


and her UP TILT IS THE WORST THING EVER. What kind of uptilt cuts height in half, and doesnt have an extending hitbox? uuuuugh.

Dsmash is actually pretty proportional to her body size and is fairly typical of weaponless fighters.

Also don't be too mad. WFT's Usmash lacks an extended horizontal hitbox, but also happens to be invincible, very likely the strongest Usmash in the game, and has a kill setup from a move with 14 frames of landing lag(compare Sheik Fair which only has 10) for it's own 1-2 hit into kill, but without the "Oops I missed or got shielded so now I take a smash to face instead" bit.

Her Utilt makes a lot of sense if you analyze the character from a perspective of being hard to hit. She's speedy, has a crawl that ducks under about 2/3 of the cast's moveset, a good roll, two moves with windboxes, cancels that put her into shield,airdodge, spotdodge, and free fall respectively, a great air dodge(one of the few that can be shorthopped), and a model so thin that attacks will go through her if she's too close (ex:Sheik's Fair). Thinking about all of that, it kind of makes sense that she'd have an Utilt that lowers her hurtbox, savy?

 

[Kith]

I actually love her up-tilt. I used to think it had a lot of priority, but now I'm pretty sure I'm just ducking under people's attacks, and punishing them, all in one move.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Utilt is actually a very useful move believe it or not. I won't lie, I thought it was straight up garbage but after trying it out in battle and in training it is in fact a decent anti-air, it can combo into itself and lead into other combos like Utilt>Utilt>Uair. It's definetly good at low percents..

 

[Luxent]

I can never seem to use it effectively though. ;____;

She will always be secondary to Peach for me. Its a shame because WFT's reciting of fitness tips actually comes across so sassy.

 

[cwjakesteel]

From what I've seen Wii Fit Trainer needs to heavily rely on her projectiles to do any good. Of course, notwithstanding that you'd be like a Rob without a gyro to not use them.

 

[⑨ball]

From what I've seen Wii Fit Trainer needs to heavily rely on her projectiles to do any good. Of course, notwithstanding that you'd be like a Rob without a gyro to not use them.

Nah.
She's pretty good all around, it's just that most players focus on her projectile game because it's so good. You see a lot of the same with Samus.

 

[SuaveChaser]

Idk why i never used Wii Fit's Ball that much when people are off stage it has made a huge difference for me lol.

 

[⑨ball]

This thread might interest you quite a bit then if you haven't already seen it:

http://smashboards.com/threads/a-strong-body-is-the-base-of-a-strong-mind.371980/

All of the header tricks I know, which I feel like(personally/selfishly?) every WFT player should be using and abusing.

 

[Superbat]

Smash bros balance update might come today. (basing it off from japan time zone) Really love playing as her so I'm hoping her buffs could land her to high tier or something lol