Wii Fit trainer needs a serious buff.

[Shinuto]

I've faced SO MANY Pikachus and Kirbys that just get a billion free hits because her moves and grabs just DO NOT hit them, along with her lack of range makes hitting anyone really hard and alot of her moves have a lot of lag, particularly her smashes...which pretty much a lot of other character do not seem to have. I feel like her moves as they are are fine if they hit, but they just dont I whiff soo often it annoys the crap out of me. Give her Snake's disjointed hitboxes from Brawl.

 

[crisspy727]

Ooooor learn the match up since running grab don't normally work you must pivot grab. SHFFNair works out just fine and Dtilt also the tip of her F-tilt hit's yes Fsmash doesn't hit well so you must rely on forcing them in the air by throwing little sun salutation and meet them in the air the best way to kill Pikachu is either gimp them with a Side B spike with some good reading and Uair since pikachu is light.

 

[Shinuto]

Ooooor learn the match up since running grab don't normally work you must pivot grab. SHFFNair works out just fine and Dtilt also the tip of her F-tilt hit's yes Fsmash doesn't hit well so you must rely on forcing them in the air by throwing little sun salutation and meet them in the air the best way to kill Pikachu is either gimp them with a Side B spike with some good reading and Uair since pikachu is light.

hmmm okay.... what else?

 

[crisspy727]

Jab set up's into a Usmash or an Uair depending on their reaction of getting out of the buried state what more do you want?

 

[Shinuto]

Jab set up's into a Usmash or an Uair depending on their reaction of getting out of the buried state what more do you want?

how t o deal with a Pikachu that spams down smash and thunder.

 

[crisspy727]

how t o deal with a Pikachu that spams down smash and thunder.

Guard and Jab them or an Utilt or even a Dtilt,Pikachu has a lot of lag between his dsmash also Thunder isn't really just a Wii fit problem you just have to become less predictable with where are are landing or drifting in the air it shouldn't be that bad since you are such a mobile character.

 

[SuaveChaser]

Short Characters are tough but you can win the MU.

 

[Shinuto]

ok t

Guard and Jab them or an Utilt or even a Dtilt,Pikachu has a lot of lag between his dsmash also Thunder isn't really just a Wii fit problem you just have to become less predictable with where are are landing or drifting in the air it shouldn't be that bad since you are such a mobile character.

ok thanks.

 

[Pale Tuna]

I also feel that she needs a few buff... Her hitbox for her melee attacks are too realistic. <.< At least give her a better grab. Very few people use her because of her difficulty of use.

 

[CoolPalMitch]

This may sound a little odd, but I honestly feel WFT's healing capabilities should be buffed a bit. I was really interested in how WFT had two moves that could potentially heal them, but since they only heal 1-2%, it hardly makes a difference. I feel that a fully charged Sun Salutation should heal 3-4%, and a successful Deep Breathing should heal at least 5%. It still wouldn't necessarily be game-changing, but it would feel more impactful.

 

[Lil Puddin]

WFT is very goofy but fun to play as. She/He suffers from a very horrible grab, one that makes Ganondorf's grab look OP. Grabbing in this game is the core for great high level play and OoS options. If your grab can't touch crouching or short opponents and has horrible end lag/grab time... Then you are royally screwed. Oh hey, that describes the WFT's grab! And only his/her grab! (Ganondorf's is awful, but then there's the whole loleasySideB->combo grab)

WFT attack range is OK, but WFT sure could use some buffs to those aerial attacks. Their hitboxes are very awkward and only Uair and Bair are decent enough to land hits with consistantly. Fair is very weird. Nair has a very small hitbox that puts WFT in danger's way. Dair is as slow as Ganondorf's with less than half the KB power. You can only get KOs when the person is near 150% unless they are very close to the top or sides.

The smash hitboxes sure could use some reworking. WFT's Fsmash should really be able to hit more than what it appears to hit since you can't angle it at all. Dsmash should have a tiny bit increased hitbox since it literally ends at the WFT's foot and hand, which also happens to be the sourspot and the most likely thing to hit someone with. Usmash is OK, but is very small.

Tilts are OK as is and hit all around WFT's body. Tilts shouldn't have kill power and should be fast. WFT's tilts accomplish that at the very least. Although, slight buffing to their range wouldn't hurt the balance.

Sun Salutation is very good as is and should have healing removed IMO. UpB is decent. Deep Breathing is OK but could be better executed or at least last a few seconds longer so WFT can actually do something OR have slightly better healing since it takes skill to hit it exactly every single time in heated matches. SideB needs some serious reworking. It's great range wise and the overhead spike can be used to meteor mash, but it is too slow to use successfully for that. Hitting someone with the ball is very unsatisfying and does nothing helpful KO wise.


TL;DR WFT is rarely used because WFT has a lot of small quirks that snowball into a giant mess. The hitboxes revolve around utilizing all her/his moving body parts which result in very short but multi-sided hitboxes. That's BAD for a game that has tons of defensiveness and characters who have really stupid-good falling aerial trajectories. WFT needs more than B/SideB for range. They should just tack on some glowy sun-salutation sparkles at the end of his/her hands and feet to extend the attacks' ranges while still make SOME sort of sense. Also make WFT's grab a squat + arms out instead of a double arm raise so it can grab shorter opponents. So much can be done to fix WFT, so I assume WFT will be getting a buff in a future patch.

 

[Shinuto]

WFT is very goofy but fun to play as. She/He suffers from a very horrible grab, one that makes Ganondorf's grab look OP. Grabbing in this game is the core for great high level play and OoS options. If your grab can't touch crouching or short opponents and has horrible end lag/grab time... Then you are royally screwed. Oh hey, that describes the WFT's grab! And only his/her grab! (Ganondorf's is awful, but then there's the whole loleasySideB->combo grab)

WFT attack range is OK, but WFT sure could use some buffs to those aerial attacks. Their hitboxes are very awkward and only Uair and Bair are decent enough to land hits with consistantly. Fair is very weird. Nair has a very small hitbox that puts WFT in danger's way. Dair is as slow as Ganondorf's with less than half the KB power. You can only get KOs when the person is near 150% unless they are very close to the top or sides.

The smash hitboxes sure could use some reworking. WFT's Fsmash should really be able to hit more than what it appears to hit since you can't angle it at all. Dsmash should have a tiny bit increased hitbox since it literally ends at the WFT's foot and hand, which also happens to be the sourspot and the most likely thing to hit someone with. Usmash is OK, but is very small.

Tilts are OK as is and hit all around WFT's body. Tilts shouldn't have kill power and should be fast. WFT's tilts accomplish that at the very least. Although, slight buffing to their range wouldn't hurt the balance.

Sun Salutation is very good as is and should have healing removed IMO. UpB is decent. Deep Breathing is OK but could be better executed or at least last a few seconds longer so WFT can actually do something OR have slightly better healing since it takes skill to hit it exactly every single time in heated matches. SideB needs some serious reworking. It's great range wise and the overhead spike can be used to meteor mash, but it is too slow to use successfully for that. Hitting someone with the ball is very unsatisfying and does nothing helpful KO wise.


TL;DR WFT is rarely used because WFT has a lot of small quirks that snowball into a giant mess. The hitboxes revolve around utilizing all her/his moving body parts which result in very short but multi-sided hitboxes. That's BAD for a game that has tons of defensiveness and characters who have really stupid-good falling aerial trajectories. WFT needs more than B/SideB for range. They should just tack on some glowy sun-salutation sparkles at the end of his/her hands and feet to extend the attacks' ranges while still make SOME sort of sense. Also make WFT's grab a squat + arms out instead of a double arm raise so it can grab shorter opponents. So much can be done to fix WFT, so I assume WFT will be getting a buff in a future patch.

Oh yeah I agree with ALL ofthis....because her lag you CANNOT (or atleast me) deal with toon link and samus projectile spammers. I love her to death but goddamn she needs serious range fixing in hitboxes.

 

[⑨ball]

Crisspy is the hero the WFT community needs, but not the one they deserve right now.

 

[crisspy727]

Thanks dude we just need more serious reps so that we could grow large i feel like we are pretty behind compare to other threads.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Let's get a good stretch!
(literally)

 

[ChivalRuse]

I do think that WFT's lack of range is her biggest problem. She doesn't have any safe pressure and relies on rolling around the opponent (which is never a reliable strategy, especially when you have Diddies running around sharking for grabs). Honestly, if they had just given her d-tilt hitbox more range, and low recovery, that would have solved all of her problems. But as it is, she has no safe or rewarding pokes.

WFT is only playable because of her amazing special moves. Salutation and breathing put good pressure on your opponent, and side-b is good for disruption, aiding recovery, and generally has many uses near the ledge (and gimping presence).

 

[crisspy727]

I do think that WFT's lack of range is her biggest problem. She doesn't have any safe pressure and relies on rolling around the opponent (which is never a reliable strategy, especially when you have Diddies running around sharking for grabs). Honestly, if they had just given her d-tilt hitbox more range, and low recovery, that would have solved all of her problems. But as it is, she has no safe or rewarding pokes.

WFT is only playable because of her amazing special moves. Salutation and breathing put good pressure on your opponent, and side-b is good for disruption, aiding recovery, and generally has many uses near the ledge (and gimping presence).

That is true but what they need to do is fix her hitbox on her N-air try to perform a short hop N-air on Luario and watch it wiffs even tho her foot is going right through them also make Utilt a whole hitbox instead of her hands.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Personally I don't think nair has a bad hitbox. If you are using it correctly, you'll be landing behind your opponent with it anyway, in which case it should be deep enough to hit pretty much any character.

Her f-tilt range is bleh (considering its terrible range, it should have godlike speed, like Ness d-tilt speed; but it doesn't); and though it can KO, it doesn't activate till really high percents. Her jab string is her only legitimate poke, so we should be spamming this nonstop.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Accidental double post.

 

[crisspy727]

Personally I don't think nair has a bad hitbox. If you are using it correctly, you'll be landing behind your opponent with it anyway, in which case it should be deep enough to hit pretty much any character.

Her f-tilt range is bleh (considering its terrible range, it should have godlike speed, like Ness d-tilt speed; but it doesn't); and though it can KO, it doesn't activate till really high percents. Her jab string is her only legitimate poke, so we should be spamming this nonstop.

Yea i understand like that it works fine I'm just talking about how her short hop Nair doesn't match her hitbox like run up to a lucario and just do a jumping Nair.Also how the back of Utilt works like the leg part could act the same as the back part of her jab also around her butt is a small pop up instead of no hitbox.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Oh I see.

Speaking of back hitboxes, do any of her back hitboxes have better range/angles than her front hitboxes? I wonder if the back hitbox of f-tilt has advantages over the front hitbox..

 

[crisspy727]

F-air that's all i could think that the back part has a better angle for the floor hits.hmm Maybe if they are right behind you that's all i could think of.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah fair comes out faster than bair and has a lower hitbox too. I can definitely see applications for using fair with your back to your opponent depending on their positioning relative to you. I need to go in the lab and try out some ideas now.

 

[crisspy727]

I'm gonna be honest but actually think B-air is a bad idea to even space with or poke if you land on the floor you just end up with a lot of landing.I usually save it for kills or surprise hits or even follow up after a N-air. I've never actually approached with RAR F-air since short hop is too high to hit short characters also the hitstun for it is god awful they could punish even if they get hit by it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Well, that's why you might try using the reverse hitbox of fair closer to the ground, maybe with a fast fall somewhere in there, so it wouldn't go over shorter characters. Again, I'm just brainstorming here.

 

[G-Guy]

Personally I don't think nair has a bad hitbox. If you are using it correctly, you'll be landing behind your opponent with it anyway, in which case it should be deep enough to hit pretty much any character.

Her f-tilt range is bleh (considering its terrible range, it should have godlike speed, like Ness d-tilt speed; but it doesn't); and though it can KO, it doesn't activate till really high percents. Her jab string is her only legitimate poke, so we should be spamming this nonstop.

I have to disagree here.
Pivot Ftilts are actually rather effective and kill at good percents, especially with Deep breathing (starting at 100% for Jiggs and ending at 140 for Bowser, with deep breathing).

I do agree that WFT's grabs are a weak spot, but her lack of range can be remedied a little bit with her projectiles, forward-step Fsmash, pivot ftilt and SHFFNair.

Do not underestimate her down-spike for fair either. though rather difficult to hit, it has the ability to catch the enemy by surprise.

Super Hoop is also kinda great for stage spiking, it happened a few times during regular play, without me aiming for it. so that's cool, I guess...

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah, obviously the reason why we're discussing f-tilt in the first place is because it is one of Wii Fit's better grounded options. Her smash attacks are ridiculously situational to land (u-smash is probably the only one that you can consistently set up with her jab sequence or with nair at certain percents). Her other tilts are booty. F-tilt isn't bad, but it goes on the backburner against characters with disjointed hitboxes; Rosalina, Marth, Shulk, Link, and the like will laugh at you trying to consistently land f-tilt on them.

 

[crisspy727]

Well, that's why you might try using the reverse hitbox of fair closer to the ground, maybe with a fast fall somewhere in there, so it wouldn't go over shorter characters. Again, I'm just brainstorming here.

Yeah but the landing lag plus the short hitstun is not worth the trade its only reliable at higher percentage which leaves the opponent in a OTG effect.Also not to really bad mouth her F-tilt but 100% on Jiggz with DB doesn't sound too great since she is the lightest character.

 

[ChivalRuse]

In summary, f-tilt is fine, but you have to pick your moments to use it carefully. Jab string is usually better.

 

[crisspy727]

I could fully agree with that post.Her Jab's are pretty solid since you could scare them into a grounder or stop it into a grab and endless follow up's with her buries.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Bury to upsmash seems to work sometimes. Any idea what the conditions are for it to work?

 

[crisspy727]

Bury to upsmash seems to work sometimes. Any idea what the conditions are for it to work?

I've been trying to test that out myself and it seem to work around mid-high% range and it all depends on how tall they are and how fast they mash out.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm guessing it's more consistent on tall characters? Lol.

 

[crisspy727]

I'm guessing it's more consistent on tall characters? Lol.

Yep it's mostly used to rake up damage.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Is the speed at which they can mash out affected by their percent, or is just a constant?

 

[crisspy727]

Is the speed at which they can mash out affected by their percent, or is just a constant?

It's based on their percentage and how fast they mash but in most case if they do that you would just follow them in the air since they would always pop out in the same direction.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I see. In any case, putting someone above you is always to your advantage.

 

[Shinuto]

Im getting the idea the developers just DID NOT test her at all...there is no reason why she is just this bad compared to all the other characters.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Lol. I'm sure they tested her, just not with a competitive goal in mind. Just to make sure she doesn't glitch through the stage and stuff.

 

[crisspy727]

I see. In any case, putting someone above you is always to your advantage.

Yep that's where i feel like where her strong suit it. Also i understand Shinuto i always complain on how they give diddy combo's out of grab even tho he has so much tools and less landing land while we are here with more landing lag and less range.