Wii Fit trainer needs a serious buff.

[Niala]

I really think all they need to do is make it so her jab, grab, ftilt, and fsmash don't accidentally fall over characters who are too short or who crouch as a part of their landing animation. It's absolutely ridiculous that it's a problem that we have to deal with that no other character has.

It would be one thing if they were actively crouching to avoid attacks, that would be fair. That's counterplay. But just whiffing attacks, and notably your safest/quickest options, because "lolkirbyistooshort" is unforgivable and has me debating giving up on the character.

I understand the frustration, but you have to keep in mind if you're playing For Glory that your options won't always be so limited. FD is one of WFT's worst stages in my opinion, and these short characters won't be dodging attacks as much when we have platforms to use to our advantage.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Not being able to grab the short characters isn't as bad as you think. Instead of grabbing as a roll punish, you can just dash attack instead. Focus more on abusing sun salutation and deep breathing to force them to act instead of stay in shield.

 

[lazymp]

Not being able to grab the short characters isn't as bad as you think. Instead of grabbing as a roll punish, you can just dash attack instead. Focus more on abusing sun salutation and deep breathing to force them to act instead of stay in shield.

I mean, it's pretty bad.

When fighting against a short character whose player knows your grab is not an option, dash attack becomes obvious and your opponent will read and shield it. Those same characters can also easily avoid sun salutations unless they are (nearly) fully charged, sometimes by standing still but almost always with a duck.

It's such an uphill battle for her vs. Pikachu, Kirby, Villager, Olimar that I just don't play as her vs them. She's considerably more effective against the taller members of the cast.

 

[Untouch]

Her hitboxes need to be so much larger, you gotta be inside someone to hit with a lot of her attacks.

 

[crisspy727]

For short match up you rely on pivot grabs which cure the whole grabbing problem and F-tilt but you must time it when they are not in their landing state like a little bit past that and going deep down with your N-air as long as you don't land on their face just past them.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I mean, it's pretty bad.

When fighting against a short character whose player knows your grab is not an option, dash attack becomes obvious and your opponent will read and shield it. Those same characters can also easily avoid sun salutations unless they are (nearly) fully charged, sometimes by standing still but almost always with a duck.

It's such an uphill battle for her vs. Pikachu, Kirby, Villager, Olimar that I just don't play as her vs them. She's considerably more effective against the taller members of the cast.

Note how I said to use dash attack to punish rolls. I didn't say to use it in neutral. You don't need to throw out partially charged salutations. The pressure that charging it induces alone is enough to get them to release their shield, which is what you want, them attacking you, getting them to come to you and run into your moves. Also, you can duck under Villager's firework projectile with your own crouch. It's pretty useful actually.

For short match up you rely on pivot grabs which cure the whole grabbing problem and F-tilt but you must time it when they are not in their landing state like a little bit past that and going deep down with your N-air as long as you don't land on their face just past them.

Based on the fact that pivot grab works on the short characters, does that mean that roll cancelled grabs work as well?

 

[crisspy727]

Note how I said to use dash attack to punish rolls. I didn't say to use it in neutral. You don't need to throw out partially charged salutations. The pressure that charging it induces alone is enough to get them to release their shield, which is what you want, them attacking you, getting them to come to you and run into your moves. Also, you can duck under Villager's firework projectile with your own crouch. It's pretty useful actually.



Based on the fact that pivot grab works on the short characters, does that mean that roll cancelled grabs work as well?

Well isn't the roll cancel grab just running grab animation? If so i don't think it would work out too well.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah I guess it is. For some reason, I thought that it wasn't.

So what I'm taking away from this is that standing grab doesn't go over short characters like Kirby. In that case tomahawking will be a big thing in those matchups.

 

[crisspy727]

Hmm well standing grab would whiff them so would it actually help in that match up?

 

[lazymp]

My point is, those characters having tiny hurtboxes coupled with WFT's precise, small hitboxes makes those matchups a nightmare. Even if several of her moves don't go over enemies and whiff all of the time, they do so enough that it makes a noticeable impact on the game.

 

[crisspy727]

My point is, those characters having tiny hurtboxes coupled with WFT's precise, small hitboxes makes those matchups a nightmare. Even if several of her moves don't go over enemies and whiff all of the time, they do so enough that it makes a noticeable impact on the game.

Yep you are correct it's just up to you if you still want to go thru that match up xD.

 

[Shinuto]

Yeah I agree she's hard to use cause her range is crap. I think her up smash's hitbox especially needs widening. You have to play a lot differently with WFT because you can't rely on f.tilts for spacing and her two best moves for setting up combos (up tilt and nair) are super hard to hit with accurately.

OP you have a killer avatar btw.

thanks...I really hope she gets some range buff...u tilt is SOO good for combo starting but its hitbox is utter****.

 

[Shinuto]

I realy hope Sakurai and his team this glaring flaw in Wii FIt Trainer's moves.

 

[Niala]

The problem with not allowing her basic attacks to hit in front of her isn't the sole issue, it's that it removes her fastest options on the ground and that she has virtually no options for approaching in the air. Yes you can fall through the shield with a nair or reverse fair(neither of which are fully safe), or zone with a spaced bair, but the issue is that in any given situation where WFT is in the air and your opponent is on the ground, there's a 135 degree space in front of her where she has almost no space control. From straight below her (dair hitbox) to diagonally in front of her (arm of fair hitbox,) she has no threats because every character in the cast can pressure her in the air from that angle and outside her nair hitbox.

This is a huge problem-- it means that whenever you're facing your opponent, you cannot approach them safely in the air. It's made even worse by the increase on her air-dodge landing lag, making landing unsafe in most situations anyway, and that, when chasing any character into the air, that's pretty much the optimal position you would want. Come from below and in front of them gives you a positional advantage anyway, but doing it on a character that can't hit you back from there is downright unplayable.

Now that we've established that, let's take away her fastest and safest options against specific characters because they're too small to hit. We're left with utilt, somewhat quick but still punishable, dtilt, punishable and only really good for reads, and dsmash, slow start-up and massive ending lag.

It's not because those options are removed that she can't deal with these characters. It's because she already had few options to deal with them in the first place, and now she's had her strong ground options taken away too. Even assuming her grab, jab, and ftilt were reliable against these characters leaves her open on a multitude of different levels in the air and on the ground against them. Taking away those options makes the matchups almost unwinnable against proficient players.

 

[Shinuto]

The problem with not allowing her basic attacks to hit in front of her isn't the sole issue, it's that it removes her fastest options on the ground and that she has virtually no options for approaching in the air. Yes you can fall through the shield with a nair or reverse fair(neither of which are fully safe), or zone with a spaced bair, but the issue is that in any given situation where WFT is in the air and your opponent is on the ground, there's a 135 degree space in front of her where she has almost no space control. From straight below her (dair hitbox) to diagonally in front of her (arm of fair hitbox,) she has no threats because every character in the cast can pressure her in the air from that angle and outside her nair hitbox.

This is a huge problem-- it means that whenever you're facing your opponent, you cannot approach them safely in the air. It's made even worse by the increase on her air-dodge landing lag, making landing unsafe in most situations anyway, and that, when chasing any character into the air, that's pretty much the optimal position you would want. Come from below and in front of them gives you a positional advantage anyway, but doing it on a character that can't hit you back from there is downright unplayable.

Now that we've established that, let's take away her fastest and safest options against specific characters because they're too small to hit. We're left with utilt, somewhat quick but still punishable, dtilt, punishable and only really good for reads, and dsmash, slow start-up and massive ending lag.

It's not because those options are removed that she can't deal with these characters. It's because she already had few options to deal with them in the first place, and now she's had her strong ground options taken away too. Even assuming her grab, jab, and ftilt were reliable against these characters leaves her open on a multitude of different levels in the air and on the ground against them. Taking away those options makes the matchups almost unwinnable against proficient players.

what would you suggest be done?

 

[⑨ball]

I mean, it's pretty bad.

When fighting against a short character whose player knows your grab is not an option, dash attack becomes obvious and your opponent will read and shield it.

Then they should be getting grabbed anyway if you're thinking a step ahead like you should be anyway. Don't get me wrong, having a high grab on short characters sucks, but if what WFT is going to do is obvious, it's because your playstyle is obvious.

Those same characters can also easily avoid sun salutations unless they are (nearly) fully charged, sometimes by standing still but almost always with a duck.

Ducking projectiles is fair game. It doesn't take long at all to get a fully charged SS, and it cancels into shield meaning you can be right in their face and have less to worry about than they do.

It's such an uphill battle for her vs. Pikachu, Kirby, Villager, Olimar that I just don't play as her vs them. She's considerably more effective against the taller members of the cast.

It requires a change in playstyle but it's not nearly as bad as it's being made out to be. Most characters have MUs where adjustments or changes have to be made to what might be considered optimal or rather what they're used to doing. This is not the end of the world. It's just the beginning of her metagame development.

 

[Niala]

what would you suggest be done?

Given the option I would suggest they expand her hitboxes so they hit these characters unless they're actively ducking to avoid it, especially her grab and fsmash. I'm not here to pretend that it's something that is going to happen or even something we can suggest to the smash dev team, but I find it helps to discuss why her weaknesses induce such vulnerability, especially in these specific match-ups.

 

[Shinuto]

Given the option I would suggest they expand her hitboxes so they hit these characters unless they're actively ducking to avoid it, especially her grab and fsmash. I'm not here to pretend that it's something that is going to happen or even something we can suggest to the smash dev team, but I find it helps to discuss why her weaknesses induce such vulnerability, especially in these specific match-ups.

how do you deal with captian falcon as her...because that ******* can just dash grab and dtilt all day and be so safe....I fought a guy who only used u air down tilt grab, side b down b and thats it.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Crispy let's play wii fits. There haven't been other wii fit users in SoCal that attend Tournies besides me. My tag is wiifitgaypride69

We can teach each other about wii fits since you seem like the only person on here who knows wii fit very well.

 

[Shinuto]

Crispy let's play wii fits. There haven't been other wii fit users in SoCal that attend Tournies besides me. My tag is wiifitgaypride69

We can teach each other about wii fits since you seem like the only person on here who knows wii fit very well.

**** you I need hlep more than you....but seriously crispy PLEASE hlep me.

 

[Fancykong]

Hello, everyone. New person to these parts. WFT main.

I also believe that WFT needs a serious buff. I'm sorry to everyone who disagrees., but some aspects of her game can't be solved by saying what amounts to "git gud."

I'm okay with her unnecessary lag on several key moves, even if it requires me to use other moves (that are less laggy, but still leave her open)
I learned her...different hitboxes and can land them on a regular basis.
I learned her header combos.
I can land Sun Salutation on enemies whether they have a reflector or not through judicious use.
I've done her Deep Breathing Cancel air dodges as well.


I've come to accept those aspects of WFT, but my major problem is with her lack of priority.


After reading this thread and forum and actually trying out some of the tactics against bad matchups (Pivots, Side B, Nair, her 3 spikes, etc.), I've found that ON PAPER, everyone's answers seem correct. But I'm a somewhat decent WFT player, and even when I correctly read the enemy on numerous occasions, my moves still lose because of priority. A lot of times, my and the opponents' moves don't even clash, they just automatically go through.

If Sakurai only gave her Ftilt a buff and left everything else alone, I'd be fine. That said, I would still hope for a lot more.

 

[Shinuto]

Hello, everyone. New person to these parts. WFT main.

I also believe that WFT needs a serious buff. I'm sorry to everyone who disagrees., but some aspects of her game can't be solved by saying what amounts to "git gud."

I'm okay with her unnecessary lag on several key moves, even if it requires me to use other moves (that are less laggy, but still leave her open)
I learned her...different hitboxes and can land them on a regular basis.
I learned her header combos.
I can land Sun Salutation on enemies whether they have a reflector or not through judicious use.
I've done her Deep Breathing Cancel air dodges as well.


I've come to accept those aspects of WFT, but my major problem is with her lack of priority.


After reading this thread and forum and actually trying out some of the tactics against bad matchups (Pivots, Side B, Nair, her 3 spikes, etc.), I've found that ON PAPER, everyone's answers seem correct. But I'm a somewhat decent WFT player, and even when I correctly read the enemy on numerous occasions, my moves still lose because of priority. A lot of times, my and the opponents' moves don't even clash, they just automatically go through.

If Sakurai only gave her Ftilt a buff and left everything else alone, I'd be fine. That said, I would still hope for a lot more.

Oh you and me need to exchange NNID...you are right in my same postion.

 

[Fancykong]

Oh you and me need to exchange NNID...you are right in my same postion.

Sure thing. My screen name is my NNID

 

[crisspy727]

Alright guys if you want to have some friendlies just PM alright so we could share some info. My NNID user is greyfox727. I'm pretty much free after 5:30PST so hit me up after that.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Short Characters are tough but you can win the MU.

This. It's frustrating but you have to think differently when you're fighting short characters. Just assume that grabs are completely worthless against them and go from there.

 

[SaucyMcYolo]

As to having trouble vs short characters and being a wft main, any suggestions on secondary that may fit wft type style or just a good secondary to combat her weakness?

 

[tofumon]

Her hitboxes need to be so much larger, you gotta be inside someone to hit with a lot of her attacks.

Yes you do ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Lil Puddin]

As to having trouble vs short characters and being a wft main, any suggestions on secondary that may fit wft type style or just a good secondary to combat her weakness?

Jiggly is very good secondary, as is Peach. There are no characters who match WFT's playstyle, but there are plenty that cover her problem areas.

You could also use a character from the Easy Army and call it a day. The most popular easy character seems to be Ness at the moment.

 

[teluoborg]

I've come to accept those aspects of WFT, but my major problem is with her lack of priority.

Yes but no. It's not priority you want, it's spacing. If you lose every trade without your attacks clashing with the opponent's then it means you simply got outranged or you are not using your hitboxes at the most optimal range. So yeah sorry but "git gud" is an acceptable suggestion.

Besides, if you want to play a buffed WFT you can just play the male version. I mean dang, look at those biceps.

 

[Fancykong]

Yes but no. It's not priority you want, it's spacing. If you lose every trade without your attacks clashing with the opponent's then it means you simply got outranged or you are not using your hitboxes at the most optimal range. So yeah sorry but "git gud" is an acceptable suggestion.

Besides, if you want to play a buffed WFT you can just play the male version. I mean dang, look at those biceps.

Your statement still isn't reasonable seeing as the last update brought about changes that nerfed aspects that you also would have said, "just increase your skills" about. For example, they nerfed Lucario's amazing recovery by adding decent ending lag to it, and they increased Shulk's overall damage output. By doing this, Sakurai/Namco themselves acknowledged that some characters needed improvement.

Yes, it is possible to do many amazing things with WFT now. However, there is already a precedent of characters receiving changes in this game, and from only a month and a half worth of play. If she never gets buffed, then fine. I still like her play style. But in the event that she does, then I'd like to see what I've already mentioned. Either way, there's enough evidence against your statement to at least warrant an open discussion about possible buffs, though I apologize for taunting people who are fine with her as is.

P.S. Female Trainer is more fit. #FemFitMasterRace

 

[Shinuto]

Man I'm glad that me posting my complaint with my main got all this discussion going. Im learning alot of stuff about her from all you, thanks.

 

[teluoborg]

Your statement still isn't reasonable seeing as the last update brought about changes that nerfed aspects that you also would have said, "just increase your skills" about. For example, they nerfed Lucario's amazing recovery by adding decent ending lag to it, and they increased Shulk's overall damage output. By doing this, Sakurai/Namco themselves acknowledged that some characters needed improvement.

That's such a terrible mindset : "I like to play this character but it needs to be buffed so I got an excuse for doing poorly with it, I just have to wait until buffs happen so I don't have to better myself. Just you wait you guys !".
lmao

 

[Shinuto]

That's such a terrible mindset : "I like to play this character but it needs to be buffed so I got an excuse for doing poorly with it, I just have to wait until buffs happen so I don't have to better myself. Just you wait you guys !".
lmao

not everyone here is doing poorly, some characters very clearly need buffs. I think everyone is bettering themselves until buffs happen to lessen the amount of work needed to be done to kill with WFT that for other characters can be done with far less effort, like diddy kong or ness.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Sakurai is an idiot. Plain and simple. How does one create a character who can barely hit others when in their idle animations or who are just simply short?

Anyways, she does need a buff. All Sakurai really has to do is expand the hitboxes on her moves (by a significant amount) and then just some minor changes (like adding more time on DB) and she'll be set.

 

[Lil Puddin]

That's such a terrible mindset : "I like to play this character but it needs to be buffed so I got an excuse for doing poorly with it, I just have to wait until buffs happen so I don't have to better myself. Just you wait you guys !".
lmao

She is low tier garbaje tho. You can better yourself all you want, but you WILL most likely lose to:
Ness
Falcon
Fox
Falco
Sonic
Mario/Dr Mario
Marth/Lucina
Kirby
(more goes here)

Without them trying too hard. She/He has an up-cliff battle with these guys. All they need to do is play decently. All WFT needs to do is not miss a single attack and also somehow get a kill shot (lmao!) without being killed first.

I am not one of those people who go "I won't try to get better until my character is buffed." After all, I played Zelda and Palutena since day 1... But... WFT most def requires too much scrutiny to do well with. While members of the Easy Army just sit on their controllers/3ds and somehow win. Sooooo that's why I don't bash peeps who refuse to better their WFT game. She is absolutely ridiculous compared to more than half the roster. Being the best at WFT is like being the best jogger in a running race.

She does VERY well against campers or rollypollies, but that's only saying so much. I personally like using her because she is so passively trolly without making it obvious (tuck in those glutes!). Her movements are goofy-lolwat too.

 

[Shinuto]

She is low tier garbaje tho. You can better yourself all you want, but you WILL most likely lose to:
Ness
Falcon
Fox
Falco
Sonic
Mario/Dr Mario
Marth/Lucina
Kirby
(more goes here)

Without them trying too hard. She/He has an up-cliff battle with these guys. All they need to do is play decently. All WFT needs to do is not miss a single attack and also somehow get a kill shot (lmao!) without being killed first.

I am not one of those people who go "I won't try to get better until my character is buffed." After all, I played Zelda and Palutena since day 1... But... WFT most def requires too much scrutiny to do well with. While members of the Easy Army just sit on their controllers/3ds and somehow win. Sooooo that's why I don't bash peeps who refuse to better their WFT game. She is absolutely ridiculous compared to more than half the roster. Being the best at WFT is like being the best jogger in a running race.

She does VERY well against campers or rollypollies, but that's only saying so much. I personally like using her because she is so passively trolly without making it obvious (tuck in those glutes!). Her movements are goofy-lolwat too.

who exactly is IN the easy army so to speak?

 

[Lil Puddin]

who exactly is IN the easy army so to speak?

It's a term I made up. You can tell who is in the Easy Army based solely on which characters you see a lot of. The Easy Army only invades online, since you can get away with "scrubbin' so hard that the floor's sparkling clean" tactics. However, they aren't confined to just those tactics.

When the game released, General Mario and Captain Falcon did their best to get more troops. Dr Mario joined because they needed a medic... Even if his credentials were shady.

Of course Ness quickly joined to feel relevant ASAP. Sheik and ZSS joined soon after for girl pwr reasons! Later came Sonic; being fashionably late is way past cool. Fox joined because he didn't want Sonic to be the only furry. Marth joined since he is down for anything that requires him to just use the tip. Lucina followed because clones can't leave the original source's side.

Sheik has been put into the Easy Army's reserves recently(1.04), but is still tied to the army's cause. Lil Mac, DDD, and Yoshi are also in the reserves. (note: reserves = aren't TOO easy to use, but aren't medium difficulty either + are VERY easy to pickup at first)

I may have missed some. The most popular since v1.0 to now is Mario. The most popular back pocket character since v1.0 to now is Captain Falcon. The most recent favorite seems to be Sonic. All based on the For Glory trends.

Are these characters broken? No.
Do they have blatantly bad matchups ONLINE? LOL no.
Can they be easy to master ONLINE? Yes.
Can a competent Easy Army player beat a great X? Yes, but X can also win despite the high probability of being annoyed to death IRL.
Can evenly skilled X beat equally skilled Easy Army player? X will have a mildly annoying to severely annoying time depending on which character X is; winning is possible.

 

[crisspy727]

Quick question why the **** are you here just to put us down instead of thinking of a way to improve our gameplay that's ****ed up **** also it's your opinion and who cares because she is still undiscovered.

http://smashboards.com/rankings/the-blast-zone-1.3424/event

Welp that is my proof enough of that she could be played in a high level scene. I'm gonna post tournament videos just waiting for the uploads.

 

[Shinuto]

Quick question why the **** are you here just to put us down instead of thinking of a way to improve our gameplay that's ****ed up **** also it's your opinion and who cares because she is still undiscovered.

http://smashboards.com/rankings/the-blast-zone-1.3424/event

Welp that is my proof enough of that she could be played in a high level scene. I'm gonna post tournament videos just waiting for the uploads.

wait cripsy who are you talking too?

 

[CoolPalMitch]

He's talking to Puddin, Shin.

In addition to my previous post regarding their heal moves, I also feel that WFT's Smash attacks need less start up or end lag. Either that, or just straight up give them more launch power. My biggest complaint with them is that their Smashes are so punishable, but they don't do quite enough to justify it. All of their other attacks are reasonably balanced in terms of power and....punishability, if that's even a word, but their Smash attacks are just not quite good enough. I'm not getting enough bang for my buck.

Also regarding their troubles with hitting small characters, as previously stated, that's where you have to start incorporating pivot tilts and grabs. In addition to this, you have D-Tilt/Smash, and low-level aerials. It's annoying that the front of their F-Tilt can't hit short opponents (especially considering that's one of their best kill moves imo due to my issues with their Smashes), but you just have to adapt when presented with a less than ideal matchup like this.

(I haven't actually read every single post in this thread, so my bad if I'm just repeating what other people have already said. :/)