WiFi Character Discussion

[Sucumbio]

Brawl Online Character Discussion

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the Characters of Brawl and their relation to online play. Talk about match ups, lag effects, strategies, etc.

Some things to consider (please read before posting)

• Please don't use this thread to complain about Online Play. This is intended for serious discussion on the various matters affected in Online Play, not how it makes us feel.

• Please try to remain focused on topic. Once a particular discussion has been introduced and discussed at some length, we can move on and it can be brought back up again if necessary, but this way we can at least keep things focused.

• All manner of viewpoint are welcome and appreciated. However, please keep this civil. There's a lot of contention over Brawl Online due to its unprecedented Fail in both expectation and application. Though we cannot fix it, we can share our knowledge and experience, and hope it leads to something better.

Current Topics as of 8/29/09

• Character Analysis: Online vs Offline Ratios (alphabetically listed)

• Strategies: How not to SD when using Ike

 

[Sucumbio]

I think Nyke should front the Ike strategy, lol cause I still SD w/him even during a near-free lag match. The problem is his buffering. Lag regardless of rate seems to hammer it to pieces.

 

[Xivii]

Edit: Why don't you get us started ?

 

[Sucumbio]

lol there ya go!

 

[*JuriHan*]

Jigglypuff is buffed like **** on wifi. Like I would go so far to say rollout is actually a reliable kill move lol

 

[Nysyarc]

I think Nyke should front the Ike strategy

Agreed. Okay so here it goes...

You're going to SD online while playing Ike. It's unavoidable, and it sucks. However, through practice, careful decision-making and knowledge of input lag, you can vastly reduce the amount of times you SD as Ike. I myself main Ike and have been playing him online for months, and I still SD once every 50 or so matches (which is too often).

There are several reasons or situations in which you will SD as Ike. I will start with the easiest one to correct. Never use Quick Draw to recover. Ever. Unless you know for sure that Aether won't be able to reach the stage and thus QD is your only hope, do not use it. Aether is safer, easier to time, harder to edge-guard, and all-around a much better recovery move than Quick Draw. I see Ikes all the time using Quick Draw and ending up underneath the stage because the input lag tricked them into using it too late. You can avoid that by just never using it.

Now for some of the more obscure reasons that Ike SDs a lot online. The most common way for an Ike to SD is to use Nair off-stage. Ike's Nair has very little landing lag, and so when it is used on-stage it seems like a fast move. Off-stage however, it takes a horrendous amount of time to end the animation while you're falling. It takes so long in fact, that if you use it while walking off the ledge, you will not be able to recover again. That's pretty bad.

Now what often happens is that Ike players will be pressing the attack button near the edge of a stage to jab or shield grab someone or even to jump and then use a buffered aerial, but they are pushed off-stage and because of the input lag their Nair comes out as they slide off, dooming them. There are some obvious ways to avoid this, but it's very situational and sometimes impractical.

1. Do not attempt to shield someone's attack and then grab them with the attack button while near the edge of a stage. If you are knocked back in your shield so that you fall off the stage, you will Nair to your death instead. There are alternatives of course. You can try spot-dodging and then punishing with a jab combo instead of a grab for instance. Most of the time you will be trying to shield someone's ledge attack so you can then grab them. Instead, try using Fsmash or Fair to punish their ledge-attack if you can predict it.

2. If the input lag is particularly bad, do not try to jab or short-hop aerial opponents while near the edge. If the lag is bad enough, you can be hit off-stage and your Nair will come out instead of your intended jabs, making it very difficult or impossible for you to recover. Same with a short-hopped aerial; the game wants to screw Ike over online, so it will always buffer the attack button input when you are sent off-stage.

So basically do your best to stay away from the edge of the stage online. When playing as Ike, you want to always be spacing your attacks carefully, and that applies even more heavily online. Now, that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't edge-guard people. Just be careful when you press the attack button near the edge and watch your spacing (use moves like Fair to edge-guard from a safe distance instead of going up close).

So remember, the biggest one and the only one that still gets me occasionally is the shield-grabbing. Do not attempt a shield-grab near the edge of a stage as Ike. Easily 80% of the time you will end up falling to your doom with an Nair instead.

Any questions? Comments? Other things you need help with? Just let me know.

 

[Sucumbio]

Good read...

ok so lets see ... Ike's edge grab game. yeah I'd say definitely don't rely on it, but I wouldn't eliminate it from the realm of possibility either, I'd base it on the quality of connection, if it's super laggy, definitely avoid his back grab-dair combos, but a foward grab to fsmash might work out, or something similar so long as you're not immediately following your grab up with an air anything you should remain on the platform and avoid SD from walking off, but overall IF you're gonna grab, best be facing the ledge not with your back to it...

I have used QD a few times as a mind game and with enough height I can get it fully charged and go from way out say on FD to about center stage... but in most situations I'd agree it's a poor choice and easily gimped at higher percents, better to stick to aether and try not to get lagged into aethering into the top of the under side of the stage in an attempt to sweet spot the edge.

Shield grabbing is a delicate art, if you're not used to using it you'll definitely get punished for throwing it too soon... best shield grabs are followed directly after a perfect shield (duh) so I'd say unless your situation is close to that I'd favor a spot dodge over a shield grab, especially with Ike, but actually in general (ok but not 3D ).

 

[Alus]

What? No wolf strategic guide?

 

[orange/xd]

Snake is pretty good on wifi...

 

['V']

I'm pretty sure every character is about the same on wifi, just lag is more involved...

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Let me try to redeem myself in the online community:

When I DID play online (I don't anymore) I felt very cornered in decisions with what characters are lag friendly and not. I mean, that's the only difference between online and offline: Lag. So I decided to see who's lag friendly and who's not. At the time, I mained Lucas and Falco offline. PKT2 was Lucas' only problem really, and it was a big one. With Falco, my approach was short hop single laser. I couldn't do that, do to input lag. SNAKE, on the other hand, is great online. There's almost zero set back with lag. But I wanted a secondary. So I looked around, and found Olimar! Offline, I still found myself smashing the c stick and spamming side b. The only downside is the timing for Olimar whistle invincibility frames, but that wasn't too much of an issue.

That's just my two cents. If anyone wants to ***** about how I don't like online like how most of you probably will, go ahead, but this was intended for serious conversation.

 

[Nysyarc]

If anyone wants to ***** about how I don't like online like how most of you probably will, go ahead, but this was intended for serious conversation.

That addition was pretty unnecessary

However I do know where you're coming from. I definitely agree that Snake is barely affected by lag. His moves don't require buffering and his hitboxes are so disjointed and have such broken priority that you could have him lagging and give everyone else a clear connection and he'd still stand a good chance. I never had the problem of character selecting myself. I mained Ike, and he's not much different online from offline. Harder to buffer some jab stuff, and it's easier to SD... but spacing, general strategy and recovery remain unchanged.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

spacing with ike can be difficult with lag. Ike really needs to have his attacks well timed and spaced or he'll be punished

 

['V']

I'm not really a big fan of online either. Just telling ya how it is.

 

[Dracospawn]

I play online all the time. My way of getting distance with Ike is simply using his A combo (or whatever button you use for the simple 3 hit attack on your controller, I'm using gamecube ) or I jump and use his side A, the back one can be difficult to time but still comes in handy.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm pretty sure every character is about the same on wifi, just lag is more involved...

An understatement to be sure. It's not just involved, it's actually the exact reason why this thread is so important.

For instance, the Ike that has to avoid certain moves to keep from SD = an Ike that's NOT the same as one offline. Even if you try to play your Ike the same online as you do offline, you'll regret it because of Lag. Only in an ideal near flawless connection can you expect to utilize Ike's full move set, in other words.

And there are others.

Any character that has a trajectory recovery (zelda, fox, falco, wolf etc) has to contend with lag or face not recovering correctly. Any character that has a tether recovery has to compensate or miss their tether. Any character that has an AT involving move canceling (there's a lot) have to compensate for lag or flub the cancel. The list is endless, hence why we're gonna focus on one thing at a time to try to hash out the experiences of online brawlers and come up with a viable, guaranteed solution.

I play online all the time. My way of getting distance with Ike is simply using his A combo (or whatever button you use for the simple 3 hit attack on your controller, I'm using gamecube ) or I jump and use his side A, the back one can be difficult to time but still comes in handy.

Spacing with PPK (punch punch kick) is decent. I've had the misfortune of being knocked off the stage while PPK'ing and that's pretty much an instant SD, so to keep that from happening, I've learned to only PPK when there's no one to my back, or within hit range from the back.

 

[Nysyarc]

Alright, I'm gonna try to get a discussion going here. We should do an extensive overview of each character and how their gameplay is changed online. Then, based on that, we give them a ratio of online:offline playability. So for example, say we came to the conclusion that Ike is much more difficult to play online, we could put his ratio at 25:75 (higher numbers indicating easier/more effective playing, the first number being online). If we decided Snake was only very slightly harder online, we could put him at 45:55.

So, I think we should do it in alphabetical order but we don't have to... what character do you guys want to start with?

 

[orange/xd]

Let's do alphabetical.

 

[Dracospawn]

I think we should do alphabetical.

 

[Sucumbio]

alphabetical it is! And so that means... uh... >.> ah yes. Bowser.

From: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245098

Marth players say Marth is the worst because you cant space correctly, Ganon players say Ganon is the worst because its hard to auto cancel al of his aerials, Jiggz dies too early, G&W dies too early, DK players have difficult times with projecile spam on WiFi, you cant powershield , ZSS cant land her precision aerials, blah blah blah blah blah

Well Bowser has all of those problems except auto-canceling aerials and dying too early.

Plus timing aerial klaw in wifi is a joke and you can't chaingrab almost anybody.

Timing fortress's invincibility frames when recovering is impossible.

Have I given you enough reasons yet?