Why Use a Bad Character?

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Which bad character do you play? -

Do you think your character is bad? - Most definitely, sadly...

How did you come about to playing this character? -
Link is my favorite character of all time, so he was already predestined to be chosen before Brawl's release.

If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws? -
I don't really use Link anymore, but when I did for the first 3 years, it was my fanboyism that kept me going. I loved the character and his playstyle.

If you've stopped using this character, who did you switch to using? What drove you to switch? Do you ever regret switching? -
I ultimately switched to Meta Knight (I actually tried out Toon Link for a couple months, but I guess MK fit me better). When my reasons for playing this game changed, so did my character. I wanted to win, to see what my potential was using a viable character. I got encouragement from players like Dphat, Fogo, D4BA, to develop MK back in the early years, but of course back then I still continued to play Link. I didn't make the complete switch until mid-summer last year, what a time to pick MK when he would be considered banned the following months, lol. I don't regret switching ever. In fact, it was the smartest decision I could make for myself as a player; I wish I'd done it a lot sooner. Link is still my favorite character, but I have learned to keep character admiration and character viability separate. It is my hope that Link will be viable (I stretch it as far as hoping he'll be a top contender) in the next smash game!

If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you? -
Honestly, knowing what I know now, I would have mained Meta Knight (I also like this character!) up until this point.

Feel free to add anything to this -
I actually don't regret maining Link, or switching as stated above. I feel like maining a bad character for 3 years has taught me to appreciate the amazing tools a great character has. Brawl is my first competitive game, so playing this game competitively and learning how to compete efficiently has all been a huge learning experience for me. I can't wait for the next installment of smash; I feel like I'll pick things up quicker and I look forward to help lead the metagame among others as I continue to grow as a player.

 

[mars16]

-Which bad character do you play?
-Do you think your character is bad?
-How did you come about to playing this character?
-If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws?
-If you've stopped using this character, who did you switch to using? What drove you to switch? Do you ever regret switching?
-If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you?
-Feel free to add anything to this

-Mario

-Because he is the only fair character in a game with unfair characters

-Mario has always been my favorite video game character. Every game I play that has Mario in it, I always go Mario before playsing any other character, But brawl is.. well I actually tried Sonic out first ... But and Sonic is my second favorite video game character.

-Because has 98% no flaws!!! The only flaw he really has is being in a game with a bunch of unfair characters!!.... and low kill power..... and recovery.....kinda

-I was actually trying out other characters to main like Olimar and Diddy, but there to Technical and stuff. I try'd Snake and said forget it.

-Yes actually, If I can go back 16 years of my life, I would have a sonic game one of the firsst games Ive ever played besides a super mario bros. I'd then probably be a Sonic main.

-No

 

[me9595]

-Which bad character do you play?
luigi
-Do you think your character is bad?
yeah
-How did you come about to playing this character?
a friend of mine used to main luigi, he said that his recovery was terrible and i set out to prove him wrong and found out about the cyclone recovery. since then he moved on to diddy kong, and now i main luigi
-If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws?
because he is fun to play, his jab combos are great and he is a decent character against a lot of people, just not the ones that matter, like meta knight
-If you've stopped using this character, who did you switch to using? What drove you to switch? Do you ever regret switching?
I have a in-development falco who was my main when i found out about luigi's cyclone recovery, ive been working on him again to be able to fight against meta knight, marth and ddd
-If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you?
nope, but i would have put time into building an effective secondary or co-main
-Feel free to add anything to this
not really much else to add, however, i will say that since i have been playing falco more, i have realized how terrible my tech skill is, and also that my controller is just terrible (c-stick doesnt really work, b button is all screwed up), but i think just playing a second character, or just randomly playing some one in friendlies only will help people realize their own mistakes with their main, it helped me, maybe it will help others

 

[pidgezero_one]

Dunno if I posted in here yet.

Both of my mains ( :nessbrawl: and :kirbybrawl: ) and one of my three secondaries ( eachbrawl: ) are in that list.


My other two secondaries are ikachubrawl: and :dededebrawl: .

Thing is I just use the characters I like. Earthbound is my favourite game. I've always liked Kirby and Dedede. Pikachu and Peach are straight-up fun to use.

 

[infiniteV115]

I really don't understand why this thread is still active. It's pretty much the same answer for everyone. People play video games because they are fun, so obviously the people who play 'bad' characters care more about enjoying the game than they do about being successful.

 

[SoulPech]

I really don't understand why this thread is still active. It's pretty much the same answer for everyone. People play video games because they are fun, so obviously the people who play 'bad' characters care more about enjoying the game than they do about being successful.

What if you want to do both?

 

[infiniteV115]

Everyone who enters tournaments regularly wants to do both.
"More" was the key word in that sentence.

 

[BSP]

I really don't understand why this thread is still active. It's pretty much the same answer for everyone. People play video games because they are fun, so obviously the people who play 'bad' characters care more about enjoying the game than they do about being successful.

I don't understand why you posted if you weren't going to answer the questions.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I really don't understand why this thread is still active. It's pretty much the same answer for everyone. People play video games because they are fun, so obviously the people who play 'bad' characters care more about enjoying the game than they do about being successful.

It's true.

I really think people should care more about enjoying whatever they do over just being successful in something they hate or don't care for.

 

[MikeKirby]

Because it's a rhetorical question.

If a game isn't fun to you, why play it?

 

[pidgezero_one]

I don't understand why you posted if you weren't going to answer the questions.

He can't answer cause he uses a good character

 

[Vinylic.]

Besides, we can do more than just answering a question here. Like say, discussing.

And also, what makes the community great is due to the player's actions. If you read tommy_G's thread he generally says that hype, motivation, and proudness is the reason out community grows. If we were to regularly see only top tier characters, you will expect that not much hype will happen over time since it gets old. Like Snake vs. MK being seen all the time.

If we were to see a low tier conquer a top tier, then that's gonna well worth watching. Like Chu vs. Ally.

 

[Cr0wbaR]

-Which bad character do you play?

I started using Pokemon Trainer, after being a Diddy Main.

-Do you think your character is bad?

Honestly, not at all.

-How did you come about to playing this character?

After playing Diddy for a good while, and being a noob I looked at the game by "numbers" and just assumed, "Meta Knight is only a -1 so it's not THAT hard." But because I thought my character was "good" I felt I would do better naturally and anything that exploited my weaknesses, like my recovery being easy to counter and read, I thought Meta was just cheap. So then I said to myself "What if I showed myself more OBVIOUS weaknesses so that I can learn to hide them/not have them exploited?" I had seen a combo video from T-Block and had seen some epic playing from Apostl and ReflexWonder and PT is a commonly forgotten player, so let's give him a shot!

-If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws?

It's honestly a lot more fun and thought provoking to have so many more flaws you have to hide and protect. I honestly like Ivysaur the most, and have even gotten some compliments that my Ivysaur was my best of the three! I realized I like slower characters, but I just didn't like DDD, or Bowser (I kind of like DK but I haven't truly used him lately) but Ivy and Charizard were just so much fun to play! Plus a lot of people don't know how to face him, and with controlled play, Charizard and Squirtle can hold their own with top tiers. And Ivysaur can be scary if he gets off.

-If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you?

No, I just prefer PT over a lot of other characters. If anything I wish I could just use Ivysaur!


In the end, playing by the numbers is an annoying concept, I don't like saying "this is a tough matchup, and I can't get in one X character" to be responded to with "It's only a -1," or "DUDE it's +1 for you!" It doesn't help me improve, it doesn't tell me how to win, it's just statistics that just make me feel like no matter how I play I should be winning/losing less. Diddy Kong and a lot of top tiers always bothered me as it brought this kind of response. Even in the MK Diddy MU, common responses were "you have bananas to break Nado" which is nice to know at the beginning, but eventually it stops helping because you're not telling me "keep control of your bananas, don't let me get them on my side." THOSE are actual tips, numbers and simple meta-game data don't always help if you're not teaching me WHY it's useful.

Either way, it's why I like PT now, sure i still have some positive MU's, but generally it's just because of gimmicks like chaingrabs and stuff, so I just stop paying attention to that kind of stuff...

 

[I38VWI]

-Which bad character do you play? I main Zelda (not Shiek or Shielda), and play a few others besides.

-Do you think your character is bad? Not as bad as everyone else does.

-How did you come about to playing this character? She's a perfect match for my play style. Glass cannons are the best.

-If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws? Playing a flawed character makes you work harder. The more flaws the character has, the less you are allowed to have yourself to play at a high level.

-If you've stopped using this character, who did you switch to using? What drove you to switch? Do you ever regret switching? I've stopped Zelda to learn several characters. I fact, I've tried to giver her up for nearly every high tier character. But I always come crawling back.

-If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you? No. No one knows Zelda, especially not like I do. Her matchup with DDD is listed at -1, but considering the face wrecking I give to pro 3Ds, that can't be right.

I know several tricks with Zelda that are not listed on her character page or anywhere on this forum.
I've played hundreds of hours of just Zelda. I know a lot about her, and some I'm not willing to share.

Playing a bad character can give you an edge.
I recommend every pro (especially MKs) try to learn a bad character, and I mean really learn them.
It can help polish your style to be forced to be handicapped at a character level.

 

[infiniteV115]

Who are these pro DDDs you've wrecked with Zelda?

And please don't say you that 3-1'd some dude named ChainGrabber1989 on AiB ladder

 

[Alacion]

I know several tricks with Zelda that are not listed on her character page or anywhere on this forum.
I've played hundreds of hours of just Zelda. I know a lot about her, and some I'm not willing to share.

Oh you know several? It can't hurt to share one right?


-Which bad character do you play?
Peach! <3

-Do you think your character is bad?
Peach is not bad, but not very good either.

-How did you come about to playing this character?
I tried her out and loved the way she could string moves on CPUs

-If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws?
I absolutely love Peach and it's somewhat acceptable for her to play aggressive which is the way I love it. Pressuring shields and landing awesome strings are just too fun <3

-If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you?
Never!

-Feel free to add anything to this
Borderline tier is silly. Put her back in Mid!

 

[Grimmz]

-Which bad character(s) do you play?

I play 2 characters I consider bad. They are and but mainly just

-Do you think your character(s) is bad?

Yes, especially

-How did you come about playing these/this character(s)?

Like you, I started off as a casual player who only played for fun, this was around 2009/2010 and my first main was actually . I normally play as any character that I like in any fighting game. Then one day I tried out because he was another character I liked in the game and I really liked his gameplay as well. I then started to use more than and I began feeling more comfortable playing as him and even felt like he was way more easier to use than . My started to get better and better until one day I dropped and used full . At this time, tiers did not exist to me. Later on I picked up because I like his gameplay and his Up-B is just awesome, its like if you are playing as Ryu from street fighter when he does his Shoryuken move which is similar to luigi's Up-B. I've used a lot in friendlies but have not yet used him in a serious set, my has gotten pretty good that quickly but there are still a lot of characters I cannot beat with him that I CAN beat with

-If you still use this/these character(s), why do you continue doing so despite their flaws?

I like a lot and I honestly don't care if he's a bad character. I have already put him into competitive play so it would be really hard to switch back into a better character and gain A LOT of experience like I did with just to catch up with everything. The main reason why I continue to use and (luigi is just sometimes) is because I want to show people how good of a player I am when I get decent placements in tournaments and ladder sets whether they are offline or online just by using 1 or 2 **** characters. And I don't really think its a big waste of time and money at all.

-Feel free to add anything to this

I also want and to be my secondaries so I'm currently trying get better at using both of them. I know they are characters most people consider to be cheap but they are still fun to use and on top of that I could use their support on a match I really want to win especially if its against one of my bad MUs.

Spoiler

like KIRBY!!!!

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

1.)Which bad character do you play?

I exclusively play Sonic

2.)Do you think your character is bad?

No, but he's not good either. I do think he should move up the tier list, but not by much. Maybe four spots?

3.)How did you come about to playing this character?

I picked Sonic because he's my favorite character of all time. (Not just video games.)

4.)If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws?

I'm not saying Brawl is well balanced, but it's balanced enough so that you can play as Sonic at a high enough level. Even if not, I wouldn't care too much, as I don't usually play people that much.

5.) If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you?

Absolutely not.

Feel free to add anything to this:

How much satisfied are you with playing your character, and with your character in the competitive scene?

I'm perfectly satisfied with playing my character. In the competitive scene, I would like them to do better and get to the level of players like M2K and Nairo, but I know that that's asking way too much, and I am perfectly satisfied with the current level of Sonic's metagame.

Do you think you'll ever switch characters?

Nope.

 

[DekuTree]

I main sheik, but I would like to talk about Ganondorf...

-Which bad character do you play? Ganondorf, king of thieves!

-Do you think your character is bad? Yes I do!

-How did you come about to playing this character? I love The legend of Zelda and I find Ganondorf to be very cool, so when I found out you could play as one of my favourite villians I just had to play him.

-If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws? The way you play him is just general, solid fun. His smashs are just so powerful and can tank tons of damage. I ADORE his side B

-If you've stopped using this character, who did you switch to using? What drove you to switch? Do you ever regret switching? I don't play him seriously in 1v1, only for friendlies. There is a reason why he is the lowest tier, and he's just too terrible to play seriously.

-If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you? No way! For a good laugh Ganondorf is great.

 

[Capain Puff]

-Which bad character do you play? Jigglypuff!
-Do you think your character is bad?
He isn't terrible in my opinion, but he's definitely bad.
How did you start about to playing this character?
I thought of Jiggly as a joke character in Melee, but when I used him against friends I couldn't believe why I thought he was bad. I used him again in Brawl because he's just my best character.
-If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws?
Because he's my best character and he's just too fun to play as.
-If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you?
Nope, Jiggly is just too fun to play as and his bad results won't cause me to choose another character.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

In my opinion, the only reason you would be using a "bad" character is if you like the character and want to have fun without reguarding much about wether you win or not. For me, doing well (while not really winning) against Top tier character players of around my level and higher is enough for me.

 

[Biz_R_0]

-Which bad character do you play?

Pokemon Trainer (with a focus on Charizard), although I main Wario.

-Do you think your character is bad?

Charizard and Squirtle are individually amazing characters. Pokemon Trainer as a whole is still definitely underrated but he's not that good.

-How did you come about to playing this character?

I saw Reflex play at WHOBO 4 and I was like "holy crap Squirtle is awesome". Then I played him and I was like "holy crap Charizard is awesome".

-If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws?

You mean Ivysaur? I'm trying to learn her but she sucks pretty hard.

-If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you?

I'd tell myself that Squirtle and Charizard are awesome so I'd have known earlier.

-Feel free to add anything to this

Rock smash is mai waifu.

 

[ぱみゅ]

-Which bad character do you play?


-Do you think your character is bad?
LOLZelda

-How did you come about to playing this character?
Back when I played the came cassually and only play FFAs, a friend used Zelda, and when we would just mess around, we would pick other players' characters. I liked her simple style and kept using her during my transition from casual to tournament play.

-If you still use this character, why do you continue doing so despite their flaws?
I just use her sparringly, but I try to use her often enough not to get too rusty with her.

-If you've stopped using this character, who did you switch to using? What drove you to switch? Do you ever regret switching?
Well, she's terrible, and wouldn'thelp me much at advancing tournaments. If I play the game for fun or any non-serious match, I still use her because of her gamestyle.

-If you could go back in time to the point where you started using your bad character and had the ability to choose someone else at that point, would you?
Nope. At this point I feel like I can learn or relearn any character really.

-Feel free to add anything to this
People need to be a little less serious about this game.

Rock smash is mai waifu.

If my sig weren't an ad, I'd use that quote.

 

[Ereth]

Who are these pro DDDs you've wrecked with Zelda?

And please don't say you that 3-1'd some dude named ChainGrabber1989 on AiB ladder

this ^


I play wolf, and honestly Wolf might as well be top tier >.>

 

[infiniteV115]

Wolf definitely isn't top tier material.

 

[Iota]

What flaw keeps wolf from being top tier outside of CG shenanigans?

 

[infiniteV115]

Well first of all, I didn't imply that there was anything outside of CGs keeping him out of top tier.

But even without the CG shenanigans, there's still the fact that he's not particularly exceptional at anything. Good at a few things (killing, mobility, survivability I guess) but nothing spectacular.
All the top tiers are spectacular at (at least) one thing.

I guess you could say outside of CGs, it isn't really a flaw but a lack of strength keeping Wolf out of top tier.

 

[Seagull Joe]

is HT honestly (As sad as it is for me to say since I love winning MT tourneys ), but not Top tier. He lacks the ability of having an overwhelming trait that is a necessity to top tier.

Overwhelming traits:
: Cg, arguably the best projectile in the game (Tied with possibly nades) and hard to approach.
: Broken attributes.
: Broken attributes like weight, ability to kill early, and damage output.
: Best shield, a broken camp game, and an incredibely balanced moveset to offset his problems.
: Broken grab.
Broken camp game, stupid damage output, and ability to kill really early.

I personally don't think , , and are top tier in any regard, but if they were then here are the reasons for them:
: Broken chaingrab and thunder (lol).
: Weight, avoidance game, and fart.
: True spacing game

 

[Biz_R_0]

Wario's top because he has consistent results, and he has a ton of great tools (all of his specials minus up, all of his aerials minus forward [good but not great], air speed, air dodge, etc.). Basically he's not the best at anything, but he's just great all around.

 

[infiniteV115]

Wario's spotdodge is average.

 

[Biz_R_0]

It's above average. He's in a 13-way tie behind MK.

 

[infiniteV115]

Nope. You're thinking of airdodge.

The list is complete!

How to read this:
2-20 / 25 Mario
Invincibility duration
Total number of frames

Spot Dodge

2-20 / 22 Link
2-20 / 22 Pikachu
2-20 / 22 Falco
2-20 / 22 Yoshi
2-20 / 22 Toon Link
2-20 / 24 Marth

2-20 / 25 Mario
2-20 / 25 Samus
2-20 / 25 Zero Suit Samus
2-20 / 25 Kirby
2-20 / 25 Fox
2-20 / 25 Game & Watch
2-20 / 25 Luigi
2-20 / 25 Diddy
2-20 / 25 Zelda
2-20 / 25 Sheik
2-20 / 25 Pit
2-20 / 25 Metaknight
2-20 / 25 Squirtle
2-20 / 25 Ivysaur
2-20 / 25 Charizard
2-20 / 25 Ike
2-20 / 25 Snake
2-20 / 25 Peach
2-20 / 25 Ganondorf
2-20 / 25 Ice Climbers
2-20 / 25 Wolf
2-20 / 25 Lucario
2-20 / 25 Ness
2-20 / 25 Sonic
2-20 / 25 Wario
2-20 / 25 R.O.B
2-20 / 25 Captain Falcon
2-20 / 25 Lucas

3-20 / 25 Olimar
3-16 / 25 Jigglypuff
2-20 / 27 King Dedede
2-23 / 30 Donkey Kong
3-24 / 32 Bowser

Air Dodge

3-29 / 39 Metaknight
4-29 / 39 Zero Suit Samus
4-29 / 39 Diddy
4-29 / 39 Pit
4-29 / 39 Squirtle
4-29 / 39 Ivysaur
4-29 / 39 Charizard
4-29 / 39 Ike
4-29 / 39 Snake
4-29 / 39 King Dedede
4-29 / 39 Lucario
4-29 / 39 Wario
4-29 / 39 R.O.B
4-29 / 39 Olimar

4-29 / 48 Ice Climbers
4-29 / 48 Ness
4-29 / 48 Sonic
4-29 / 48 Lucas

4-30 / 49 Bowser
4-29 / 49 Mario
4-29 / 49 Donkey Kong
4-29 / 49 Link
4-29 / 49 Samus
4-29 / 49 Kirby
4-29 / 49 Fox
4-29 / 49 Pikachu
4-29 / 49 G&W
4-29 / 49 Luigi
4-29 / 49 Zelda
4-29 / 49 Sheik
4-29 / 49 Falco
4-29 / 49 Yoshi
4-29 / 49 Ganondorf
4-29 / 49 Wolf
4-29 / 49 Toon Link
4-29 / 49 Captain Falcon
4-29 / 49 Jigglypuff

5-30 / 49 Marth
4-19 / 49 Peach

 

[Iota]

Woah, I didn't know Link and toon link had such good spotdodges. O_o.

Also Wario doesn't have consistent results outside of locals/regionals in a few regions. His results in general are fairly lacking. Wario's tools actually aren't that great either actually. If he didn't have such godlike air mobility then he'd be super easy to punish.

 

[Biz_R_0]

godlike air mobility

I guess that could be counted as his "thing".

 

[infiniteV115]

That's definitely Wario's thing. The only one that even comes close to his aerial mobility (and slipperiness) is Squirtle probably

 

[Biz_R_0]

I'd say the closest is Sonic.

 

[Iota]

Sonic's overall air mobility is kinda..bad. He's slightly faster in max speed but his acceleration is horrible. His terminal velocity fast fall speed is only slightly worse than Squirtle's but his everything else loses by a noticeable margin.

I'd definitely put Squirtle has the second most aerial mobile character in the game.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah we're not just talking about raw air speed, we're talking about being able to weave back and forth in the air like Wario can. Squirtle is definitely 2nd best at this (except for maybe Jiggs? idk)

 

[Iota]

Yoshi and Jiggs don't have the fast fall speed to be able to contend with Squirtle. They have great air speeds though.

 

[Biz_R_0]

In terms of who has the closest in terms of quality, definitely Squirtle. I thought you were asking who was the most similar in terms of stats.